Richard's Animorphs Forum
Animorphs Section => Animorphs Forum Classic => Topic started by: Yorick Brown on August 13, 2008, 02:50:26 PM
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Many people feel that despite David's betrayal, the Animorphs trapping him as a lowly mouse was just too cruel.
Mice don't live long as pets and even have shorter lifespans in the wild since they're way at the bottom of the food chain.
What would be a better morph?
I'd trap him as a mammal or bird. I think a domestic cat or dog is fitting. A dolphin or a raptor too.
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Perhaps that would have been better, to trap him as something less miserable than a rat. However, the Animorphs trapped him as a rat as a punishment. They probably wanted him dead, they just didn't want to have to kill him themselves. As you said, rats don't live very long especially in the wild. The Animorphs probably thought that nature would get rid of him.
Not sure what else they could really have trapped him as, since it would have to be an animal they could trap in a container without leaving enough room for him to demorph.
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A fish
A small fish
Then take him 100 miles out to sea and drop him.
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A fly, stick him out in the woods
yea its way crueler, seeing as how he'd be dead in like a day, but the whole point is needing him dead but not being able to kill him, better make it quick
if you make him a bird or another mobile animal he could go to the yeerks out of revenge
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An ant. Then let him come across another ant colony and get torn to shreds.
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You guys are really mean
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None of us holds a terribly high opinion of David.
I'd probably leave him as either a raccoon or a skunk. Both have EXTREMELY good survival skills, but they are sufficiently small that it would take them awhile to go anywhere, and Tobias or Ax would notice them attempting to go somewhere.
Have you ever seen an angry raccoon? Those things can get larger than 40 lbs. They are MEAN little cusses.
They are also extremely intelligent, dextrous, and talented at obtaining food and escaping danger.
They climb trees and swim VERY well, and they can eat virtually anything. Even wolves hesitate to tick them off. Furthermore, they can live a very long time, in mammal terms.
The skunk would just be funny, and it would also survive well.
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None of us holds a terribly high opinion of David.
uh...I do. a lot higher than anyone else here anyway.
actually I wouldn't want to do anything at all, but if he did turned traitor I guess I'd rather kill him than trap him in morph. trapping him in any morph seems too cruel to me. I'd so hate to be the one that has to kill him but I'd do it because it seems more humane than the other choice.
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A dog or a cat. It wouldn't be as bad as a rat, but it would be demeaning and he would constantly be around humans.
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I think I would trap him in a morph of a sponge. He won't get far. He won't accomplish anything. He doesn't have to die, because what will he ever do if he lives? Nothing.
No worries. Plus he's underwater.
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I think it would be interesting to trap him as a cheetah, so that he could at least rob jewelry stores. ;)
No, really I think a rat was quite appropriate. Maybe something slightly stronger though, like a hare or badger or something.
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A stoat, weasel, mink, ermine, or pine marten, perhaps? Still, all are a threat to sleeping birds. (Tobias)
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Trapping him as a cat or dog wouldn't work. Or really any animal that has good mobility. It would be extremely easy for him to go to the Yeerks and rat out the Animorphs.
Heh. A rat so he can't rat. Heh heh.
Yeah, I'm done...
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A Dolphin then. That's merciful.
He can have fun in the water with the animal instincts, live a nice long life, not be able to rat out on the Animorphs and still suffer as a nothlit for his betrayal.
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I think it would be interesting to trap him as a cheetah, so that he could at least rob jewelry stores. ;)
hahahahahaha that would be great, i can just picture them trapping him as that and putting him in a secluded area he could never escape from and just being like "looks like you got your wish...jerk"
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I like the idea of rat, I'd probably trap him as that.
I like rats, make good pets, lol.
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Trapping him as a cat or dog wouldn't work. Or really any animal that has good mobility. It would be extremely easy for him to go to the Yeerks and rat out the Animorphs.
Heh. A rat so he can't rat. Heh heh.
Yeah, I'm done...
A talking Cat? Well, now that's just absurd ::)
Personally, I would have given him the option of overstaying the time limit in Saddler morph. That way Saddler's family's happy, David can go back to a somewhat normal life; gravy. But David wouldn't go for that. So I guess we'll have to trap him as an animal. Though, I would make sure it was something that could defend itself, and with something of a longer life span than a rat.
We could always do what they did on Sabrina the Teenaged Witch: trap him as a house cat and given him to Cassie's family.
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Heh. A rat so he can't rat. Heh heh.
I always thought the rat thing was kinda symbolic of him being a traitor, I probably would have picked that.
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Heh. A rat so he can't rat. Heh heh.
I alwaqys thought the rat thing was kinda symbolic of him being a traitor, I probably would have picked that.
Snakes are also alluded to traitors. They could have trapped him as a rattle snake, or a cobra and dumped him in the desert or something.
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Heh. A rat so he can't rat. Heh heh.
I alwaqys thought the rat thing was kinda symbolic of him being a traitor, I probably would have picked that.
Snakes are also alluded to traitors. They could have trapped him as a rattle snake, or a cobra and dumped him in the desert or something.
Yeah, but I wouldn't have wanted him trapped as something that could kill people, so it would have had to be a nonvenomous snake, not a cobra
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Actually, this thread got me thinking about something: Did David ever morph a dolphin?
I think that trapping him as a dolphin might have made him a better person. They use "morph therapy" in 54 to get Jake 'out of his funk." It would still be a risk, but I doubt that he would have gone to the yeerks, because he would have been too happy, especially if they had taken him WAY out to sea first so the morph could have an effect on David's personality.
Tobias said that the hawk instincts affected his personality, made him a stronger person ect.
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Personally, I don't see anyway that David could change, even if he were happy...when he got control of the morph, even though the dolphin would be bubbly, he probably would still want revenge.
I myself would trap him in a fly morph. Or maybe a butterfly morph since they die quickly.
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a yeerk. he couldn't do any harm then, right? ;)
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Oh, I dont think I know a way David could be a threat as a Yeerk.
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I would just trap him as a rat make him suffer with what he did and being a traitor and all.
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Make him morph a plant. Preferably an oak.
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No dolphins, no dogs. The point was to punish him not stick him in a state of near eternal happiness. I think the rat thing was best put him in anything bigger and he'll attack ax in his sleep.
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I think I would just kill him given that this is exactly what he was trying to do to them. Honestly I don't know what I would trap him as knowing that if it's a creature that is too big and mobile he could just go to the yeerks to rat them out. Maybe a dolphin as it would be less cruel and more safe than any mammal able to simply roam the land.
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how exactly would you trap him as a dolphin though? If they threw him in the ocean than he could morph out. Rat or insicet seems most practical to trap him in a sapce where he couldnt morph out.
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No one wants to be the executioner so they trapped him instead. I'm not so sure there is such a thing as a high horse when you make a decision that will so drastically affect the remainder of a person's life. If they wanted containment then any insect would do and most insect's lifespans are pretty short anyway. Special note, make sure it's not an insect that can metamorphose thus resetting 2h limit not that it's likely he could work that out.
I agree with pretty much everyone who's said that he couldn't be trusted with a mobile morph and "morph therapy" won't work. Has anyone seen The Last Samurai? I like the idea of essentially trapping someone in a humble lifestyle and changing people that way. Of course there's no guarantee it would work but still. The 2h limit of morphing limits how much "morph therapy" a person can receive but if they're trapped in a certain way of life 24/7 people adapt to their surroundings maybe given enough time that's enough to change who they are.
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Trap him as a dog and give him to Erek.
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Their solution as a nothlit was their half way option between just killing him and letting him run free.
And really, the only reason why they never killed him was because he was human.
If it were up to me (or Rachel), I would have forced a confrontation; battle morph against battle morph. David goes Lion, I go into presumably an equally strong animal; perhaps a Bear. Bear against Lion, I'd make short work of him. If he managed to take me out some how, there's 4 others who could take him in a morph, and Ax could have taken him out easily.
If he tries to demorph to take advantage of my morality and refusal to kill a human, I calmly put one claw to his neck and kill him if he continues demorphing. So basically, force the fight to the death. If he tries to demorph to heal his wounds, he dies there as well; a dead lion.
If I had to trap him in a morph, I would have him trapped in another human; one who was born blind and mute. Since human morphs can't thought-speak, David can't see or speak while trapped. He can hear everything, see and say nothing, nor betray his secret (or the animorph's). To ensure that the two hour time limit passes, I need merely sedate him. By the time he comes to, it'd have been too late.
Alternatively, he could just be forced to morph into a mute person; subsequently, sedate him and then while sedated, remove his eyes. Unable to speak, see, thought-speak, and trapped in a morph, he'd be well-cared for in society by many many groups who help the needy. He wouldn't even have to fend for himself. It would be a very simple life; one where you are fed and hydrated day by day, have a place to sleep, but cannot see, nor speak.
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Since human morphs can't thought-speak
I think you could thought-speak.
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It's an inconsistent thing; some books have it that human morphs can't thought-speak, some have it where humans do thought-speak (though most of it is usually typos). There are more instances of an inability to thoughtspeak as a human/in human morph rather than being able to.
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He can if it's a morph.
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While on hearsay that human morphs can thought-speak, I don't recall a human-morph ever thoughtspeaking. Which book was it, and by who?
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I agree with the whole "forcing him to fight" thing. in fact that's the root I thought KA was gonna take. If I had to trap him, it'd be a snake so he'll at least wont be at the bottom of the food chain while on that island
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Actually I quite like cam's idea. Trap him as a dog and give him to a Chee. You know they'll take good care of him and they aren't opposed to keeping things trapped. The only flaw could be if he somehow outsmarts the Chee and escapes he'd spill the beans on the Chee as well.
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While on hearsay that human morphs can thought-speak, I don't recall a human-morph ever thoughtspeaking. Which book was it, and by who?
The ones I could remember is in book 33 page 28 of the ebook where Ax, ordered by Jake, says to everyone to stop messing around and focus on the task.
And in book 47 chapter 15 where Jake and Tobias talks to some campers. Tobias says to Jake that they watched too much star wars.
I think human-Ax also used thought speak while they were trying to capture Visser 2 in book 46.
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it makes sense for human morphs to be able to use thought speech. What would make humans any different then other morphs?
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Actually I quite like cam's idea. Trap him as a dog and give him to a Chee. You know they'll take good care of him and they aren't opposed to keeping things trapped. The only flaw could be if he somehow outsmarts the Chee and escapes he'd spill the beans on the Chee as well.
Yes like he would outsmart a species of androids created by the most advanced species to ever live that have been in operation since early Egypt. I'm sure they could make some kind of collar that would painlessly knock him out once he got past a certain point. But again turning him into a rat was punishment and since the dog is a generally happy creature.
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Irk about you but I'd be pretty miserable if I had to spend the rest of my life as a dog. Especially when you consider their short lifespans
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Actually I quite like cam's idea. Trap him as a dog and give him to a Chee. You know they'll take good care of him and they aren't opposed to keeping things trapped. The only flaw could be if he somehow outsmarts the Chee and escapes he'd spill the beans on the Chee as well.
Yes like he would outsmart a species of androids created by the most advanced species to ever live that have been in operation since early Egypt. I'm sure they could make some kind of collar that would painlessly knock him out once he got past a certain point. But again turning him into a rat was punishment and since the dog is a generally happy creature.
I dunno, Jake tricked Erek and Jake's ridiculously young relative to Erek. Just because their creators were advanced doesn't mean the creations are perfect.
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Like I said, it's not consistent. I can't recall a specific moment, but I'm sure there were times where one of them was in human morph and couldn't thought-speak. Meh.
Regardless, make an amendment. instead of stranding him to some nut house, proceed to have the Chee transport him somewhere far away where the yeerks won't touch; maybe African tribes.
Or, if we really want him to suffer, just let him demorph from Rat after they trapped him. Once he was in mid morph, you could just sedate him. Falling unconscious in mid morph is one of the most dangerous things that can happen, since you're trapped as something neither human nor animal. They'd just need to drop him somewhere in the forest, and let nature deal with the rest.
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Mid-morph nothlit sounds more dangerous for the Animorphs.
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Mid-morph nothlit is also a unique case in the sense that during the transformation all manner of body parts go through changes very rapidly yet there is no pain. Clearly something is happening that isn't normal. Who knows if you can become a nothlit mid-morph (it might have been mentioned but I question it anyway). You could use mid-morphing as an excuse for a strange fanfic scenario technically anything can be a fanfic but you know what I mean.
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It's never been completely shown, however their constant run-ins with the two hour limit have pretty much shown that they are explicitly afraid of being trapped in a morph, much less mid-morph.
I remember when Marco started crying after he was approaching the time limit as a flea, and while demorphing, apparently stopped (because he couldn't continue) as a dog-sized flea. Furthermore, if the animorphs couldn't be stuck in Mid-Morph, that actually adds roughly 3 minutes to their total morphing time. Even if they started demorphing with 1 minute left to the clock, they'd still be free to complete the morph (cos they couldn't get stuck in midmorph) so they would have virtually nothing to be afraid of.
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Even if they started demorphing with 1 minute left to the clock, they'd still be free to complete the morph (cos they couldn't get stuck in midmorph) so they would have virtually nothing to be afraid of.
As long as they're midmorph before the 2h limit. If you're fully an animal before and pass the 2h then ask Tobias what happens. (You find the nearest superbeing to fix you up!)
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Well, if it weren't possible to be stuck in mid-morph, that would make way for loads of ways to 'cheat' the 2-hour limit. Suppose you were morphing wolf, and stopped it right before the morph was done (and if you were Cassie, you could make any human bits really inconsequential and inconspicuous, such as, say, a teeny patch of human skin on the wolf's stomach). Then you could remain in morph indefinitely!
Plus, the only real evidence for the idea that it's impossible to be stuck in mid-morph is in book #48 (remember the scene where Rachel is demorphing, the clock hits zero with her in mid-morph, and she keeps demorphing anyway?), but that has to be taken with a grain of salt since it may or may not have actually happened. And because it seems to contradict the scenes from books #3 and #20.
However, I think there may conceivably be a small 'grace period' during morphing, where the time limit is stretched. Keep in mind that even natural metamorphosis resets the time limit, right? So a 'partial' metamorphosis might at least stretch it, therefore while you're changing during the morphing process, the time limit is constantly changing too. Not by much, but at least a little.
Anyway, to go back to the subject at hand, I do think that trapping David as a rat was cruel. Granted that it would have been hard for the Animorphs to kill him, and I'm not sure that I would have been able to do it either, but that would have been kinder to him than trapping him as a rat. Although, the dolphin idea is interesting. They'd have to sedate him, but it could work. I believe in second chances, and if anything has a shot at changing David's view of the world, it's being trapped as an eternal optimist. :)
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I think it has to do with will power. Whenever the Animorphs have gotten stuck in mid-morph, they were freaking out and needed Cassie to calm them down (except in Animorphs 48: The Return, where Rachel was alone). Once Cassie calmed everyone down, they were able to push the morph further. So, maybe it isn't possible to get trapped mid-morph.
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I'm pretty sure the andalites said 2 hours and meant two hours. I mean, wouldn't Ax just have brought it up if the time limit wasn't completely set?
Ax: <Do you have to worry about the time? You can just demorph when we're close, because you're not going to be trapped in midmorph. Marco, don't worry about it.>
*Marco is subsequently trapped as a gorilla*
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Ax has a habit of assuming humans know things. Example: Butterfly and resetting of 2hour morph timer
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Ax has a habit of assuming humans know things. Example: Butterfly and resetting of 2hour morph timer
That was hilarious.
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remember that its ABOUT two hours. Ax says your hours for a reason. They don't have the same way of measuring time as us.
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I'm pretty sure the Andalites who built it meant two hours in their own time, or just two standard hours. Elfangor even goes right out and says 2 hours, without bothering to split hairs and mention if they have a few minutes extra, and Elfangor, unlike Ax, is very familiar with humans.
There have also been several times where Ax (and the Animorphs) are close to the limit, And Ax has to mention they are close to it, often sounding worried.
I don't actually recall Ax ever saying the time limit is two earth hours, though. It's always just referred to as two hours; even way back in HBC and TAC, the morphing time is fixed at two hours; there would be no point saying 'two earth hours' then.
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Its always been about two hours and about three days I doubt that mother nature and the andalites perfectly created things right by human time.
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A fly, stick him out in the woods. Yeah its way crueler, seeing as how he'd be dead in like a day, but the whole point is needing him dead but not being able to kill him, better make it quick.
In Alternamorphs #2, The Next Passage, one of the bad endings has the Animorphs see you as a traitor or at least not a very good Animorph, and they trap you as a fly.
Actually, this thread got me thinking about something: Did David ever morph a dolphin?
David morphed an Orca/Killer Whale in book 22.
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Its always been about two hours and about three days I doubt that mother nature and the andalites perfectly created things right by human time.
No idea how 'mother nature' fits into this, but I'm sure when the andalites made the escafil device, they believed they would be the only species that would ever have it. It was more or less cemented the moment Seerow set the Yeerks free; Seerow's Kindness was a highly important law that basically mandated no technology from andalites would go to another species.
That basically means that when it was built, they either had the time set to two 'standard hours' (though we are never told how this relates to earth time) or more likely two 'andalite' hours. (it'd be like your computer telling you it'll take 4 mars hours to finish downloading; you're not on mars, so using 'mars hours' is redundant)
A third option exists; there is no such thing as 'andalite hours' and that the andalite follows intergalactic time; just like how there is an intergalactic language (Galard). This would be normal on a dome ship (since andalite concept of time is irrelevant there; day and night depend on the nearest star)but on their homeworld would be a lot stranger since their concept of 'time' would depend on the planet's rotation. It is entirely possible though that they simply use intergalactic time, though I doubt it; you would have developed your own planet's time system before you'd discover there is life on other planets, and subsequently, a universal set of time. Even after discovering it, you wouldn't just stop using andalite time system, especially if you're still living on the homeworld.
While it is entirely possible that two hours to the andalites is two hours to the humans, it's a little unlikely. Hours are made up of minutes, and minutes are made up of seconds. Unless andalites and humans had the same exact distance from their sun, with the same planetary size, and the same rotation, you're bound to get two different meanings of an 'hour'.
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Weirder coincedinces have happened in the animorphs world and by mother nature I meant that there was no way the yeeerks could have evolved with EXACTLY three days between feeds.
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I don't think it was ever a complete three days for the yeerks, because when Jake got infested, he got infested when they busted in sometime in the afternoon. Jake's yeerk had infested him after climbing from the yeerk pool, so his 'max time' should have been three days, but the yeerks ends up dying a few hours after the sun rises, 3 days later (but not 72 hours later).
See, for days, you can be pretty free with the expression, but for two hours, that's extremely specific. that's 120 minutes or 7200 seconds. Even having a + 5 minutes grace time is pretty much a life time to demorph.
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Ok I think were really off topic if you want to continue this someone start a new topic.