Richard's Animorphs Forum
Animorphs Section => Animorphs Forum Classic => Topic started by: onnicarda on June 25, 2011, 10:06:19 PM
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Cassie was a very important member.
1) She provides the Animorphs with valuable information about animals; she comes up with brilliant ideas to pull of the missions
In Books #3, 4, 5, 9, 14, 17, 18, 21, 24, etc. etc. she comes up with the basic plan of the mission
2) She can read people's thoughts, and predict people's actions
In Book #22, Cassie is the one who cleverly forms the plan to capture and trap David (a traitor), while the others had come up with nothing~~the plan works perfectly and keeps their cover from getting blown
3) She is the most talented at morphing
In Book #34, on a nearly impossible mission-->she morphs from human to osprey, flies high into the sky, and slowly morphs from osprey to human--falling toward the Yeerk pool. Then she morphed from human to whale (all the while keeping the osprey wings), then landed into the Yeerk pool. She morphed back, then to a Hork-Bajir, and found the stolen Yeerk vessel (in the Yeerk pool) everyone was looking for
Aldrea, a great warrior, was astonished at her accomplishment.
4) She has the magic ability to "coach" the other Animorphs to morph back to their regular selves
In Book #3, without her "coaching", the rest of the Animorphs would have been stuck as half-wolves, half-humans (the 2 hours were drawing to the end or had already passed)
In Book #21, she guides Marco and enables him to morph back. Without her help, Marco would have been stuck permantly as a giant flea (the others had begun to despair)
5) She is a space-time "anomaly"
In "Back to Before", she disintegrates the alternate timeline, which snaps the Animorphs back to their normal lives. The undos the mess Jake created.
Without her help, the Animorphs would have died many times. When all the other Animorphs were sick, she successfully accomplished a mission, saved Aftran, and performed brain surgery on Ax. So, Ax would be dead without her help.
Oh, and once she backed out a mission that involved slaughtering hundreds of innocent people. The other Animorphs decided to side with a Yeerk that was “against Visser Three.” In the end, they were wrong, and they would have been killed (gassed to death). But Cassie went under-cover, and pulled the switch. Her moralizing saved the entire team.
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Who doesn't like Cassie?
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She can read people's thoughts, and predict people's actions
Beyond her being an Animorph, I don't recall her being explicitly supernatural in her ability to 'read' people. :P
The reason fans frequently dislike her: she's overpowered, underflawed, and too obviously intended to be an aesop. In short, she's a Mary-Sue, by the standards of the Animorphs canon.
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Well, she was very good at understanding people. She could read people's emotions. Everyone relied on this ability to examine enemies, to help comrades. She brought down David, who was a major threat.
She was the only one who could see when Marco was upset (about his father's re-marriage), and she was the only one who comforted Ax when Estrid left. She helped support the other Animorphs when they were depressed.
How about the many times she saved the other animorphs' butts? How about her incredible morphing? She helped form the basis of lots of their plains... and she was not a mary-sue. She wasn't weak and she performed many acts of bravery. She DID have flaws, but which animorph did not?
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EDIT: Ahh, I see you changed your post. Mine changes to reflect it.
Bringing down David was very much a group effort; Cassie just took it upon herself to accept the moral burden for dreaming up an idea that would eventually have occurred to one of the others. Tobias is a nothlit; certainly he could see the damage value of forcing that condition on an enemy.
As for Marco's upset and Ax's need for comfort, that's Cassie filling her character niche. If she had stayed in the position of "team mom", then probably she might have developed enough in-series to be compelling as a character. What happened, however, was that she stepped widely outside her niche, encroached on Marco and Ax as "team brains and planning", and effectively made herself intolerably too perfect.
well how about the many times she saved the other animorphs' butts loll? her incredible morphing?
That's making our point FOR us. Compared to the other members on an individual basis, she did a disproportionate amount of butt-saving. Her incredible morphing was capitalized-upon quite a few times, and the bird-to-girl-to-whale scheme was used TWICE, once in Meg.1, the other in the book with Aldrea... but on both occasions it was treated like it was a brand-new idea, not like it was recycled from past successful uses.
As for 'tons of flaws'... not really. Cassie wasn't given enough flaws to balance her added skills, if she is to be a compelling and easily-sympathized character. Unless you treat moralizing as a major in-series flaw... and the series only treats it as a flaw on a couple occasions, and then comes back to point out after-the-fact that it ended up saving the day... then the character Cassie is all but flawless. It makes her boring to read. As for forming the basis of many of their plans, it is stated in the series that Marco and Ax are the brains of the outfit, but all too often they're stumped over a solution that is totally obvious, which Cassie brings to the floor. Some might call that superior knowledge of and experience with animals, but honestly... practical knowledge of animals isn't really as rare as the series treats it.
All that being said, this isn't an attempt to argue with you. I'm just trying to answer the question in your original post. :)
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I no :) I just like debating XD Well, Cassie was capable of forming the plan to bring down David. She predicted that David would select Rachel, and she saw the evilness inside of him. While the others might have been able to come up with an idea, Cassie's plan was very effective, and succeeded. You cannot aruge with this point.
Well, she DID save the Animorphs many times. She may seem too perfect. In the books, she did do a lot of butt-saving xD So, are you saying that Cassie was not realistic? That she was too big of a "super-man" to be real? I think, that those type of heroines should be praised. Like Melanie in "Gone with the Wind", she was very self-sacrificing. But shouldn't these qualities be respected? Her compassion? Her kindness? Her understanding? While it may seem boring, it makes us consider questions about morality and humanity.
I suppose that her knowledge about animals was not that special, but that was the author's fault for not fleshing out this idea xD
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The problem with Cassie is that she didn't evolve as the series progressed, she DEvolved. She showed a lot of signs of evolving as a character in book 19, and one part of 25 (with the dead seel), but then after that she not only slips back into her over-moralising, it gets even worst. She got annoying to read.
And btw, I'm saying this as someone who used to LIKE Cassie.
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That is true XD But doesn't her moralizing help the animorphs keep positive, and fight against the Yeerks with better confidence and clearer conscience?
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Some moralising is okay. But I find she was getting overboard, to the point where it was handicapping the team.
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While the others might have been able to come up with an idea, Cassie's plan was very effective, and succeeded. You cannot aruge with this point.
I very MUCH argue with that point. By my standards, her plan didn't succeed at all. Admittedly it involved some intervention by Crayak, but David came back, and Rachel was temporarily taken out of commission and emotionally crippled by the aftermath of the entire situation. What Cassie did was come up with a plan to sacrifice what could have been the last piece of her own best friend's sanity, in the name of torturing an imbecile to death-by-nothlitism, because a) the imbecile was in the wrong place at the wrong time, making him dangerous, b) Cassie was too weak to just mercy-kill him, and c) Cassie knew Rachel was in control of herself just enough to go through with it, and to be the bait needed to fool David into that trap.
Just by my standards, it was a pathetically awful plan, and the entire situation could have been saved by just eliminating the threat in its entirety. Considering how many creatures predate upon rats, it's not like Cassie realistically believed David could have survived on his own OR died in any remotely humane way. Her actions were, in a word, cruel.
Well, she DID save the Animorphs many times. She may seem too perfect. In the books, she did do a lot of butt-saving xD So, are you saying that Cassie was not realistic? That she was too big of a "super-man" to be real? I think, that those type of heroines should be praised. Like Melanie in "Gone with the Wind", she was very self-sacrificing. But shouldn't these qualities be respected? Her compassion? Her kindness? Her understanding? While it may seem boring, it makes us consider questions about morality and humanity.
Precisely, she's not realistic. She's not a super-man; she's a super-whiner who has far too many convenient moments of spotlight and good publicity. I don't see her as self-sacrificing at all; she is in fact the only Animorph whose entire family stayed intact and who didn't herself lose either life or the ability to both morph and be human. Rachel died; Tobias went nothlit AND lost Rachel; Ax was taken by The One; Jake lost his family and arguably his sanity; Marco, Jake, and Tobias were ALL on board for "Ram the Blade Ship."
Cassie? Hell, I'd say besides a few nights of sweet dreams in the aftermath, Cassie didn't lose much of anything, unless you count having to mourn the deaths of the other Animorphs... and honestly, I don't much count that. She gave up less than any of them; she profited from their losses.
She never once compelled me to question morality or humanity. I went into the series with a set of beliefs about what is humane, what I consider moral... and really, Cassie failed to fit the bill at every occasion. She is stated to be moral, compassionate, humane, merciful, what-have-you... but her actions don't really match up; at best, she's uselessly moralizing at a bad juncture, and at worst, she's dangerous.
I suppose that her knowledge about animals was not that special, but that was the author's fault for not fleshing out this idea xD
Umn... everything about all the characters is "the author's fault." That includes everything to be liked and everything to be disliked. :-/
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i can't speak for others, but for me i liked Cassie all the way to the last book. after i got over the "wtf" i thought "that b****!". reviewing the series with this new outlook i saw that the whole time she was making fight more complicated with her incessant moral fits adding needless stress to everyone else shoulders. while at the same time she had been holding back letting Jake and Rachel (her "boyfreind" and best freind ::)) destroyed themselves as she coasted along.
really Cassie makes David look like a nice guy. in fact David could be considered another victim of Cassie's evil.
and that is why i don't like Cassie.
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visser101's post
QFT. Thanks! I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels that way. That being said, obviously all are entitled to their own perceptions of the series and characters.
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ya, but think mine is the best.
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Cassie is an interesting (and perhaps unintentional) study in what happens when an idealist lets her morals float adrift from reality.
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Cassie is an interesting (and perhaps unintentional) study in what happens when an idealist lets her morals float adrift from reality.
I agree.
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That I understand. However, it is not entirely Cassie's fault. The blame lies on all the Animorphs' shoulders. Who would have predicted those turns of events? (besides the Ellimist) The Animorphs all agreed to trap him inside the rat morph, instead of killing him. They thought it was the better thing to do. I doubt any would have agreed to kill David on the stop. Cassie was "too weak"? I think they all were "too weak". While her actions were cruel, who would have voluntarily killed David? Cassie selected Rachel to be the "bait", because she knew that David would have picked Rachel. She knew that David would make Rachel find the cube, because he would enjoy making her obey him. Also, don't you think they were all stressed because of the numerous events occuring that time?
Cassie was pressured to do something, and do something fast. Of course, it is quite easy for us to say they should have killed David. We are not faced with actual situations. If the Animorphs disliked the plan, they would have said so. If they thought it was better to kill David, they would have done it. And the plan did succeed, it kept David from being a threat for the time being. Was Cassie supposed to predict Crayak's decision? If the Animorphs considered this everytime they went through a plan, they'd become quite paranoid!
Also, are you scorning Cassie because she did not suffer as the others? Is that justified? Are you saying she should have done something to make herself become a nothlit or die? While you may disagree with Cassie's opinions, isn't everybody different? Everyone has different ideas of moralizing.
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That I understand. However, it is not entirely Cassie's fault. The blame lies on all the Animorphs' shoulders. Who would have predicted those turns of events? (besides the Ellimist) The Animorphs all agreed to trap him inside the rat morph, instead of killing him. They thought it was the better thing to do. I doubt any would have agreed to kill David on the stop. Cassie was "too weak"? I think they all were "too weak", if that's how you will describe it. While her actions were cruel, who would have voluntarily killed David?
None of them could realistically predict that result of David actually coming back, but the primary reason they all agreed on the rat-trap was Cassie. They new she'd be impossible to live with if they had a human murder on their hands, and that this even worse alternative would still somehow be "acceptable" in her skewed perceptions of morality.
The 'better' thing to do? "Better" certainly doesn't imply "good;" one might call it better to lose one eye and both hands than to lose both eyes and both hands, but neither of those circumstances seems particularly good.
As for any of them killing or not killing David... in absence of Cassie, the ONLY one of them I don't see making the logical connection and promptly removing him is Jake, and only particularly because he would always consider the entire situation his fault (since he's the 'unofficial' leader) and the judgment to kill would have been on his head. Rachel has no such need for restraint, and Ax may even have leapt at the opportunity. Marco and Tobias have added motive: David morphed Marco as a way to betray the team, and Tobias was the first one David targeted for death, all the way from the beginning, when they were choosing his flight morph.
So who would have voluntarily killed David? Likely any of them, with the possible 'no' for Jake. They refrained so that Cassie would stay and function in the team.
Of course, it is quite easy for us to say they should have killed David. We are not faced with actual situations.
Of course we are; the events only occur within the pages of the books and in our own minds, as we read them. We recreate the situations in their entirety, in our minds, and as the readers, it is our right and perhaps our obligation to judge what occurred.
If the Animorphs disliked the plan, they would have said so.
I recall at some point all of them making it clear that they disliked it, and at least two alluding to the fact that just killing him would settle the issue immediately and without continued unnecessary risk.
Also, are you scorning Cassie because she did not suffer as the others? Is that justified? Are you saying she should have done something to make herself become a nothlit or die? While you may disagree with Cassie's opinions, isn't everybody different? Everyone has different ideas of moralizing.
I'm saying that as a character, her complete lack of comparable personal losses during the war is suspiciously Mary-Sue-isch. The Animorphs' success as a guerilla band is, in and of itself, pretty unrealistic for as long as they kept it up... but none of them dying until the last book? Unfathomable. Cassie not encountering any of the losses or setbacks of the rest of the team? If anything, laughable. I'm not saying Cassie should have done ANYTHING. I'm saying, if the author wanted Cassie to actually be appreciable and as real a character as the others were, for the fans, then more steps should have been taken to demonstrate Cassie in a considerable amount of personal suffering, the way every other Animorph was. If we never see Cassie in some genuine agonized state, then we only see half of the character, during a war story. The worst she ever has is a few moments of doubt and fear, and that's what ALL of them had, by default. As for Cassie's opinions... let's keep in mind that there's a difference between opinions and overwhelming tendencies to nearly get everybody killed who has been fighting on your side to save your planet. The difference, while maybe insignificant, is this: the instant that opinion becomes an action, or a failure to take action. Like it or not, Cassie is basically conscripted into a six-member military the instant she touches the Blue Box. If she had been part of an organization large enough to make the her individually expendable, she would have been punished for mutiny or cowardice, and that would have been the end of it. It was the Animorphs' bad luck as guerilla fighters to be stuck with her and no viable alternatives, and it's our misfortune as readers to be stuck with a character who flops so comprehensively in every effort taken to make her compelling or likable and audience-sympathetic. If anything, the authors try too hard at the 'sympathetic' part, and they overshoot by a couple lightyears, placing her firmly in Mary-Sue territory. >_<
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I'm saying that as a character, her complete lack of comparable personal losses during the war is suspiciously Mary-Sue-isch. The Animorphs' success as a guerilla band is, in and of itself, pretty unrealistic for as long as they kept it up... but none of them dying until the last book? Unfathomable. Cassie not encountering any of the losses or setbacks of the rest of the team? If anything, laughable. I'm not saying Cassie should have done ANYTHING. I'm saying, if the author wanted Cassie to actually be appreciable and as real a character as the others were, for the fans, then more steps should have been taken to demonstrate Cassie in a considerable amount of personal suffering, the way every other Animorph was. If we never see Cassie in some genuine agonized state, then we only see half of the character, during a war story. The worst she ever has is a few moments of doubt and fear, and that's what ALL of them had, by default. As for Cassie's opinions... let's keep in mind that there's a difference between opinions and overwhelming tendencies to nearly get everybody killed who has been fighting on your side to save your planet. The difference, while maybe insignificant, is this: the instant that opinion becomes an action, or a failure to take action. Like it or not, Cassie is basically conscripted into a six-member military the instant she touches the Blue Box. If she had been part of an organization large enough to make the her individually expendable, she would have been punished for mutiny or cowardice, and that would have been the end of it. It was the Animorphs' bad luck as guerilla fighters to be stuck with her and no viable alternatives, and it's our misfortune as readers to be stuck with a character who flops so comprehensively in every effort taken to make her compelling or likable and audience-sympathetic. If anything, the authors try too hard at the 'sympathetic' part, and they overshoot by a couple lightyears, placing her firmly in Mary-Sue territory. >_<
So, when you think about it, David is a much more effective guerilla-solider...minus his tedency to, you know, betray his teammates.
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So, when you think about it, David is a much more effective guerilla-solider...minus his tedency to, you know, betray his teammates.
...it was ever in question? :-/
He almost single-handedly dispatched the Animorphs, one by one, using some pretty solid guerilla tactics. Yeah, he eventually was outmaneuvered, but he was also against 6-to-1 odds involving enemies with significantly superior practice at the only weapon he had at his disposal. Considering how much practice the Animorphs had working together at this point in the series, it's vaguely equivalent to a completely untrained man with a shotgun and vague knowledge how to use it, nearly completely taking down a SEAL team.
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Too bad David didn't work out. The war could have need quicker.
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Too bad David didn't work out. The war could have need quicker.
Yeah, it would have.
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I have many issues with Cassie, but by far the worst issue was that she didn't develop what-so-ever, while the other Animorphs did. A classic example of this is book #9. That last chapter pretty much proves that she didn't change from the events in that book at all.
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(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/63/Animorphs_44_The_Unexpected.jpg)(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/63/Animorphs_39_The_Hidden.jpg)
those two alone are enough of a reason ;)
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(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/63/Animorphs_44_The_Unexpected.jpg)(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/63/Animorphs_39_The_Hidden.jpg)
those two alone are enough of a reason ;)
You should have used the inside cover art for the one on the left.
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I personally dislike Cassie because she made up at least one stupid rule that restricts them: No morphing sentient beings. There is a practical reason not to do that, but I don't think any of the animorphs will start committing crimes while morphed as other people. The reason she states for not doing it is bullcrap.
She left the Animorphs in book 19 instead of just taking a break, because she refused to change who she currently was. Even though she did come back at the end of the book, this was a bad reason to leave.
She betrayed the animorphs in book 50, came up with an excuse for it when she had no idea at the time it would work that way, and to top it all off Tobias said it was "beyond wrong" when Jake accidentally excluded her from a future meeting.
She totally separated herself from Jake when he needed someone the most. It was marco keeping an eye on him during his depression.
She trapped David as a rat because somehow that would be more merciful than killing him, and it's actually Rachel that seems the most bothered by this.
Just off the top of my head.
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Hmm. I'd actually argue that morphing sentient beings would be too much of a temptation. Can you seriously argue that, as a teenager, with all the power of the world separated from you, you could resist the urge to morph into someone else's body? Because I don't think I could. I remember only too well how it felt to be powerless and yet stressed. I feel something like it now. How often have you wanted to live someone else's life?
You have a point with #19. She should have told the Animorphs what she was feeling rather than leave. Giving up the fate of the world because of your own personal problems is stupid.
I can't really say for certain about the events in Book # 50, but whatever it was must have been pretty bad. It seems to have been what created the divide on Cassie in the first place. As for David....I don't agree with it either. But at that age, there is no way I could have anticipated the consequences. Granted I'm the idiot who at that time had such a broken theory of mind that I did something terrible without anticipating how others would react at all. But from my limited experience, at that time I thought in very clear extremes. I could have made the same terrible mistake, not wanting to kill another human being.
So....I'm mixed on the subject. I think the author gave her far too much leeway, but I simply never noticed that. I saw a very flawed, very idealistic person who had no place in a war. But was there anyway. Marco's pragmatism was a way of countering Cassie's idealism. While K.A. seemed to agree with Cassie over Marco, I guess I just never saw that as a problem. *Derp* :P
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I'm sure I'd be too busy with other things than to do something immoral or illegal with someone else's body. But that's just me. I can't speak for everyone.
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Immoral or illegal? Hell no. I wouldn't care about that. I'd be thinking more along the lines of, "Lock some guy in a closet. Live his life, ignoring your own. Forget about your world. It isn't this guy's problem." That idea would occur to me REAL fast. Granted the guilt I'd feel at doing such a thing would be unconquerable, but then I'd just try and strike up a deal with a close friend who also had the morphing power. No way would I leave the box there. If I did, I'd go back for it fast. I wouldn't wait for David to get it, even at that age.
Come to think of it, I'm a little baffled as to why they didn't periodically switch lives to relieve the stress. Cassie's fear shouldn't have stopped them from doing that........but my life DOES suck right now. XDD
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Anyone who doesn't like Cassie... Is going to be sorry to see Jake.
I like Cassie, Cassie's cool. Jake's my fav, Rachel no. 2 (sorry, Rach) Marco...Cassie...wa it... why is she coming in 4th?? Aw, jeez...*sigh* Wait till I sort this out... :huh:
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those two alone are enough of a reason ;)
You should have used the inside cover art for the one on the left.
totally ;)
(http://www.hiracdelest.com/images/books/us-inside/full_size/44kangaroo.jpg)
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As one of the few who actually likes Cassie, I can see why others hate her. All of the other Animorphs seemed to grow and develop as the war progressed, losing their childlike view of the world. But Cassie seemed to keep that naivety which made her all the more unrealistic and really annoying at times. As a child she went through so much traumatizing and emotionally scarring events that most adults wont ever go through and probably wouldn't be able to handle. But somehow it all left her virtually unchanged. Sure she's had some awesome moments like going polar bear on some guy that called her the N word, or when she realized Visser 3's plan to take away free will was a bunch of bullcrap, or when she saved the Anis from David with her whale morph. But those don't make up for her mistakes like that incident with the morphing cube or the whole buffahuman fiasco. And while we're on the subject of her mistakes, did anybody else find it unrealistic how the mistakes she makes ends up somehow benefiting the Anis later on? But Cassie's morals and childlike nature comes nowhere close in annoyance to Tobias' whining, but that's a subject for another day.
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Cassie's cool.
I kinda blame the ghost-writers for why she's disliked. They merely took her more obvious traits (Team Mom, Empath) and embellished them. Under the Applegrant books, she's a much more nuanced character. Re-reading The Secret opened my eyes a bit, she's a character who's constantly fighting within herself this perfect idyllic world and standards and rules that she has and the things she has to do for the war. From #9-#19 kinda works as a arc for her. When the ghostwrites took over, they just took the simply route of "Well, since war is bad and Cassie is all about peace, she has to be right." Except she isn't. In the last book, her decision saved humanity, but doomed Tom and Rachel and possibly other planets. Just imagine if a ghost-writer wrote that...
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can't really blame the goast writers for that sure they kinda froze the characters but KAA did the last books of the series. even removing everything between 25 and 49 Cassie is a charmed character that makes things far harder then it needs to be
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As one of the few who actually likes Cassie, I can see why others hate her. All of the other Animorphs seemed to grow and develop as the war progressed, losing their childlike view of the world. But Cassie seemed to keep that naivety which made her all the more unrealistic and really annoying at times. As a child she went through so much traumatizing and emotionally scarring events that most adults wont ever go through and probably wouldn't be able to handle. But somehow it all left her virtually unchanged. Sure she's had some awesome moments like going polar bear on some guy that called her the N word, or when she realized Visser 3's plan to take away free will was a bunch of bullcrap, or when she saved the Anis from David with her whale morph. But those don't make up for her mistakes like that incident with the morphing cube or the whole buffahuman fiasco. And while we're on the subject of her mistakes, did anybody else find it unrealistic how the mistakes she makes ends up somehow benefiting the Anis later on? But Cassie's morals and childlike nature comes nowhere close in annoyance to Tobias' whining, but that's a subject for another day.
I totally agree. She made a lot of stupid mistakes, jeopardizing the Animorphs many times (though I do like her). It was SO unrealistic! For example, letting Tom escape with the morphing cube was foolish. Many things could have went wrong. Oh, and letting herself be controlled by Aftran.
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can't really blame the goast writers for that sure they kinda froze the characters but KAA did the last books of the series. even removing everything between 25 and 49 Cassie is a charmed character that makes things far harder then it needs to be
KA didn't do the last ones expect 53 and 54.
All of the other Animorphs seemed to grow and develop as the war progressed, losing their childlike view of the world. But Cassie seemed to keep that naivety which made her all the more unrealistic and really annoying at times.
Someone (I think on the LJ community) pointed out that this wasn't so unrealistic and was more survival-instinct. And look how the war turned out, while Cassie was the most naive and sanctimonious, that instinct to stay true to her beliefs leads to her being the only one who actually has a life after the war. Rachel's dead, Jake's depressed, Tobias's depressed, Marco's life is shallow. Only Ax and she really came out of it.
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Yeah, she did learn to adjust to a normal life after the war.
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See, the end of the series was actually what frustrated me most about Cassie's character. I mean, the fact that she suffered almost no psychological aftereffects whatsoever? That was bull****. After all she's been through, all the moralistic ideals she's been forced to give up, and all the thoroughly horrific things she's been forced to do, she should have been the very FIRST person to have a nervous breakdown.
I like to think of the scene in book #50, where Cassie basically tells her parents to 'grow up', because this is a war and people die, and they need to just suck it up and get over it. Cassie. Is telling this to her parents. Does anybody else even recognize the significance of that scene? Cassie's parents, the role models that she should have followed had she been a normal kid, were more innocent and naive than she was. She had to explain to them that people die and there's nothing they can do. That scene was probably one of my favorite Cassie moments, one of the few times she actually seemed to be developing as a character, but then of course the whole thing gets forgotten and she goes right back to being goody goody Cassie who can do no wrong.
Anyway, my point was, I don't care how 'pure' her soul was after the war or whatever, there is no way that crap like that doesn't just completely screw up your brain. You do not get to explain to your parents the ramifications of war at that age and then be a psychologically healthy and happy person. Especially not if you are Cassie. That isn't how it works, no matter how much we might want it to be.
Thus, my own personal theory is that Cassie is simply so deep in denial about everything that she isn't acknowledging that the war ever happened in the first place. Which is why, I believe, she could not be with Jake, because Jake was still stuck in a war that she couldn't even bring herself to face.
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That scene was probably one of my favorite Cassie moments, one of the few times she actually seemed to be developing as a character, but then of course the whole thing gets forgotten and she goes right back to being goody goody Cassie who can do no wrong.
Cassie was forced to make comprises towards the end of the series, but even still there were things she absolutely refused to do, like let Jake kill Tom or bomb the Yeerk pool (something she was pretty much had to do to atone). And for that scene, I saw that as Cassie recognizing her moralizing traits in her parents and yelling at them and towards the end when her father confronts her on the Auxiliary Animorph thing, she realizes just how far she's gone.
I don't it's too unrealistic that she came out of it okay. By putting a limit on what she had to do and clinging to her views, there were certain lines she wouldn't cross that the others would. I still can't believe people think that the her actions in 50 ending up making her a Mary Sue -- she still got Rachel and Tom killed. I saw that as a clear message that even the most peaceful actions can have consequences.
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Granted, we recognize that Cassie's actions are responsible for Tom and Rachel's deaths, but nowhere in the series is that actually acknowledged. The thought never even enters Cassie's mind that it might have been her fault, and Jake quite obviously believes the full responsibility of those deaths lies with him. So, as far as I'm concerned, that does not really count as a blemish on Cassie's record.
And for another thing, she actually does do most or all of the things she says she refuses to. She has taken innocent lives. Not Tom's, perhaps, but she has taken human lives before (most of them morph-capable, towards the end of the series), and I fail to see the difference there.
For the record, Cassie may tell herself her hands are clean of any wholesale slaughter of Yeerks, but keep in mind that when Jake flushed the 17,000, Cassie did nothing to stop him. She even tried to justify it to Erek later by pointing out that "We needed a diversion." A freaking diversion? Might as well have admitted that life isn't so sacred after all. Admittedly not as bad as flushing them herself, but darn close. She's guilty by inaction, given how easily she could have persuaded Jake to spare all those lives.
By the way, please note that I'm not saying that any of these things make Cassie some kind of monster. In fact, I think that most people in a war would make the same justifications and rationalizations as she does. I know I would. It's the only thing you can do to stay anywhere near sane.
All I'm saying is that this kind of stuff deeply and brutally messes with your mind long after it's over. And it's made worse, not better, if you're a decent person to start out with. It's the decent people that are twisted and broken by wars, while the hardened psychopaths are hardly affected at all. Not fair, but it's true.
In the end, I love Cassie as a person, but hate her as a character. I like the things she stands for, and if I knew her in real life I would feel honored to be around her. But as a character she comes off as too good to be true, and thus totally unbelievable.
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That, and her narrations were, with some exceptions, dull.
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In the end, I love Cassie as a person, but hate her as a character. I like the things she stands for, and if I knew her in real life I would feel honored to be around her. But as a character she comes off as too good to be true, and thus totally unbelievable.
It may seem impossible for such a person to exist.
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I really don't like how the level of post war suffering the characters went through seems directly proportional to how willing they were to fight in the war. Real life just doesn't work that way. My friend really wanted to be in the military. He went through two tours of duty, and it wasn't just on the weekends. Now he's training new recruits, not going through post traumatic stress disorder.
The two most willing to fight were Rachel and Ax. One died at the very end, and the other got assimilated. The two least willing were Marco and Cassie. One seemingly came out just fine and is leading a constructive life, while the other leads the high life but is in need of a trip to Hawaii or something. That can't be coincidental.
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I really don't like how the level of post war suffering the characters went through seems directly proportional to how willing they were to fight in the war. Real life just doesn't work that way. My friend really wanted to be in the military. He went through two tours of duty, and it wasn't just on the weekends. Now he's training new recruits, not going through post traumatic stress disorder.
In the beginning, Jake did not want to fight. He only chose to be the leader to save Tom, to protect his family. Later, he was forced to kill Tom (and sacrifice Rachel, his cousin) to win the war. This decision and a couple others unhinged him. Being the true leader he was, he sunk into depression.
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I didn't have much problem with what happened to jake. He went through depression for a few years because of all the crap piled on him, but eventually started pulling out of it and doing something constructive.
I mainly have a beef for the excuse of why Rachel had to die. If KAA wanted to show Rachel was completely gone, she shouldn't have approved Rachel saying no to Crayak, or having one of her last thoughts be about shopping.
Tobias left after Rachel died as if he lost everything, which he didn't. Peter lost the one he loved too, but he didn't abandon Marco afterwards.
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That's different. Peter's a grown man with a child to take care of. Tobias is a teenage boy that just watched the first one to ever love him die (quite brutally BTW) Their situations are similar but not even close to being the same.
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You're right. Tobias' crush doesn't really even compare to the love between Peter and Eva, but Peter still did the responsible thing.
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(I'm going to ignore the fact that this is totally off-topic and jump in anyway)
I, actually, think that Rachel needed to die. She would have been miserable after the war, when the weight of everything she'd done would come crashing down on her far worse than what happened to Jake. She was trapped in a vicious cycle during the war, forced to play the 'tough girl' to hide her fear and insecurity, and the more scared she got the tougher she had to act, even though I think what she was the most scared of was herself. When that rug was finally pulled out from under her, she would have fallen a LONG way. Perhaps she would have resorted to mercenary work to keep the cycle going, but barring that I honestly think there's a good chance she may have committed suicide. I really liked Rachel too, so it makes me wince inwardly a little to say that, but I just think she could not possibly have survived the transition from her war-time self to her peace-time self.
Not to mention, Rachel's survival would have been the worst possible fate for Tobias, as well. Tobias's last excuse for staying a hawk was the war, and if Rachel survived, he would have trapped himself as a human for her. I believe this would have been a mistake. Tobias was miserable as a human before the war, and he would be miserable again afterward, Rachel or not (and if she committed suicide like I predicted, that would have been a double-whammy for the poor dude). You saw what happened, in Megamorphs #4, when Tobias was denied the opportunity to be a hawk. He handed his life over to the Yeerks because he just hated it so much. Part of that had to do with his uncle and all that, but not all of it, I think. I think he just felt like he had no control of his life as a human, and a hawk's life was the only kind of life simple enough and yet in some way rewarding enough for him to be (something close to) happy.
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There's always something to get into for conflict. Police work, military work, fighting terrorists, or a list of other things.
Tobias going back to Human to live with his mother and make a life with Rachel wouldn't be bad. There's no reason for him to be miserable afterwards. I could see him becoming a pilot to get his flying ability back.
I could see them all coming out ok eventually. I don't see why other people can't. They're all young. They have a lot of life left to move on.
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I love how I'm one of the few that think Rachel would have been just fine after the war. I could see her losing it if she were alone and the war was the only thing keeping her going, like Tobias. But out of all the Animorphs, she seemed to have the most people to help her through the transition from war to peace(that is if she needed help) Jake might still be all depressed and sh** cuz Tom died and thousands of Yeerks died by his hands, but Rachel has parents, siblings, a boyfriend, Cassie. at least one, if not all, of them has the power to get Rachel out of whatever funk she might be in now that the war is over. Plus if she still needed that adrenaline kick:
There's always something to get into for conflict. Police work, military work, fighting terrorists, or a list of other things
As for Cassie (see how I brought the topic back ;D) I still don't understand how she coped with the end of the war so well. Her best friend died, her boyfriend was resposible for the deaths of his cousin, brother, and countless others (Hell, he even sacrificed handicapped children), in three years her little fairy tale view of the world was completely shattered and yet.......she still hadn't changed? Either she has some kind of inner turmoil that she's suppressing or she's not human
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I can't see Rachel getting into the military. You have to be disciplined, and follow orders without question. Rachel could just barely follow orders from Jake, who was someone she respected probably more than anyone else. On the other hand, of course, the military might have seen her as an experienced veteran and cut her some slack because of that. Still, too much insubordination, and she would have been kicked out. Police work might have been more forgiving, but too tame.
However, the fact that she has a whole support network of people who care about her is something I hadn't really considered, and a very good point. Yeah, that would definitely help to keep her from committing suicide, at least.
Still, most of them didn't really understand the depth of what she went through in the war, so I'm not sure to what extent they'd be able to help her to get past it. The war was a totally different experience for Rachel (and maybe, to a lesser extent, for Jake) than it was to the other Animorphs. The other Animorphs just lived through through the war. Rachel lived, through the war.
As for Tobias, I don't see his mother picking up where she left off and raising him. She had a chance to be a good mother in the later books after they'd been reunited, and she didn't really seem to jump at the chance. Other than saving his life that one time, she seemed mostly to ignore him. Who knows if she even looked for him after he disappeared after the war? She sure didn't look for him when he disappeared the first time.
To get back on topic, I totally agree with Blue about Cassie. There's no way that someone has to go through all that, having started out as a good person who knows right from wrong without fail, and comes out the end as that same good person with the same strong moral compass. KA tried to portray Cassie as something 'greater than human,' I think, but it only ended up coming off as idealistic and unrealistic.
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I don't know if she was even aware that he was gone in the beginning. I'm sure she was legally disallowed from seeing him, since he didn't even know where she lived. I was thinking more of them taking care of each other, rather than her raising him.
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Her incredible morphing was capitalized-upon quite a few times, and the bird-to-girl-to-whale scheme was used TWICE, once in Meg.1, the other in the book with Aldrea... but on both occasions it was treated like it was a brand-new idea, not like it was recycled from past successful uses.
If only... It was actually used THREE times (at least), you forgot Buffaman... Everyone wishes they could forget Buffaman, so... congrats I guess. As for me, I'm more like Erek, my memory cannot forget such a horrible moment.
I think the main reason why people disliked Cassie is her hyper moralization which most of the time nobody cares about, especially not a 10 yo. That felt frustrating and dumb. She did spend a whole book feeling guilty for killing a bug and talking about that baby skunk she was trying to save after the mum died because of her and she felt guilty for that too... Who cares about a random skunk when so many serious things happen near by (you know, people being enslaved, killed, etc...) ?
She did hesitate morphing dolphins and apes on moral grounds as well.
I guess she was mostly a frustrating character because of her misplaced moral views nobody cared to understand because they were so... off.
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I think the main reason why people disliked Cassie is her hyper moralization which most of the time nobody cares about, especially not a 10 yo. That felt frustrating and dumb. She did spend a whole book feeling guilty for killing a bug and talking about that baby skunk she was trying to save after the mum died because of her and she felt guilty for that too... Who cares about a random skunk when so many serious things happen near by (you know, people being enslaved, killed, etc...) ?
She did hesitate morphing dolphins and apes on moral grounds as well.
I guess she was mostly a frustrating character because of her misplaced moral views nobody cared to understand because they were so... off.
Yes, I suppose Cassie always focused on things that were microscopic problems compared the the bigger issue. However, some people can sympathize with her views. I think she represents the minority who greatly emphasize on these moral issues. Cassie deeply treasured life (though her moralizing may have seemed annoying) and she was not afraid to stick to her beliefs.
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I guess she was mostly a frustrating character because of her misplaced moral views nobody cared to understand because they were so... off.
I liked all that moralizing growing up. I thought I could understand where she's coming from, which was nice, because I couldn't understand where my moralizing comes from.
Now, uh, not so much. She's so deliriously self-deceived. About the only thing right about her characterization is that she manages to build such an impenetrable wall of self-righteousness that, yes, I can believe that she brushed off the entire war.
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So... just a question that came to me. Does anyone else think that Cassie would have made more sense as a Buddhist? I have a Buddhist friend, and it seems like a lot of what I hear from her reminds me of Cassie. I think her moral struggles might have been more interesting to read if this was something religious to her. Now, I do think KAA made a good decision in mostly leaving religion out of the books, but it might be interesting to write into a fanfic.
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Cassie started out my 3rd favourite character, 2nd in book 4(Squirrels!) then down to 4th after that.
After around book 7, when marco stopped sucking, Cassie became my 6th favourite, jake was my 5th(Boring cliche captian leader guys aren't fun). marco(brilliant plans), Ax(cinnamon buns!) and Rachel(Who doesn't love a good psycho?) were my favourites from that point onwards, with Tobias occaisionally being cooler than marco for a few books.
In the book with the dapsen logging company, when cassie almost got stuck because she FELL ASLEEP, "convinced" jake to forgiver her, then seriously SPRAYED HIS PET DOG in return for his poor judgement. At that point, I seriously wished somebody would drop-kick her stupid creature halfway across the forest.
...and get eaten by a rat. who might be Giants David.
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my problem with cassie is that she is, over the course of the entire series, a static character. i don't hate her and my dislike is only mild as there are some things i like about her, but she just doesn't really hold my interest. cassie as a person doesn't seem to have all that much depth to me. sure, she sees connections every so often, but really, to me, she stays the same. she questions all that she is and her answer is that nothing has changed, only some of the people. no matter how much she questions her morals, she always sticks by them and she pretty much is always right. the connections that she sees remain in line with her morals. she never discovers anything about herself. it's like she is emotionally untouched yet constantly talks about emotion. for me, her moralizing isn't what's frustrating, it's her lack of personal progress.