Richard's Animorphs Forum
Animorphs Section => Animorphs Forum Classic => Topic started by: TobiasMasonPark on April 07, 2011, 03:43:22 PM
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Ever since Crayak's appearance in Animorphs 26: the Attack (yea, I know he first appeared in the Capture) we learn of the great game between the latter and the Ellimist. We've known about the Ellimist since the Stranger, and have caught glimpses of him over the next few books until the Attack. But it's only in this book (unless I'm mistaken) that we learn about the game. In the Ellimist chronicles, as well as other books, we hear that there are "rules" to the game.
The only rule I can think of at the moment is that neither Crayak, the Ellimist and, somehow and for some reason, the Drode, cannot directly intervene in the matters of the Yeerk-Animorph war. But I can't recall hearing about any other rule. Can you? They just say over and over that they can't interfere--except, when they do on many occasions...
Actually, it's really only the Ellimist who breaks this rule--or finds loop holes around the rules. Crayak, despite being vile and evil incarnate, is the only one who seems to be playing by the rules. Toomin goes out of his way to meddle and turn the tide of the war in favour of the Animorphs. The only time I can recall Crayak meddling is using David to tempt Rachel.
So, I want to hear what you guys think. What other rules do you think these two meddlers thought up to create their games? And, were the other rules (if any) mentioned at any time of the series?
Also, feel free to provide theories and answers to these questions:
1) How were the various battlefields and pieces chosen between the two? What made Crayak think of the Yeerks?
2) Is the game only surrounding the Animorphs and the Yeerks--and those alien races involved? Or are their different wars, between different pieces on other planets?
3) Who's keeping score? :P
4) What counts as a loss or a win? Does the sucess of Crayak or the Ellimist necessarily mean the other one loses?
5) Where is the Drode in all of this?
6) Are their turns taken? If so, who goes first?
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Not directly intervening seems to be the main rule, though one can make a small change at the cost of allowing the other to make a change. The Drode was allowed to tempt Jake in the MM book like this, though the ellemist already had an ace up his sleeve to stop it. Of course he probably still gets the freebie on top of it.
There could be multiple games across the galaxy for all we know. At one point it was likely the andalites and Yeerks, then others got included later as that war went on.
The Drode's place is a messenger, I suppose. Crayak doesn't need to speak to the lesser being himself when he can send a mook to do it.
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I can see Crayak looking the other way when the Ellimist interferes in the Stranger. But what about the Change?
I mean, the Ellimist was just sticking his finger into the lines of the universe in the Stranger, but he stuck his entire arm into the freaking thing during the Change! He tells Jara to leave the pool with Ket. Moves Tobias in a whole different direction like three times, and gives Tobias his morphing power back.
Crayak is the sort who strikes me as being a sore loser...Why would he let all that slide? :P
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http://animorphsforum.com/index.php?topic=352.msg599380#msg599380
;D
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In MM4, it was referenced that Crayak got to mess with Jake in exchange for the Ellimist's meddling with timelines in the Falla Kadrat situation (of course, that exchange ended up short-changing Crayak since Cassie was an anomaly, but I suppose by then it was too late for Crayak to go back on the deal). Anyway, my point was that that means they do seem to be dealing with stuff outside of the Yeerk-Andalite war (to answer question 2), since Falla Kadrat has never been mentioned anywhere else in the series.
And it occurs to me that their game might actually be purposefully weighted in the Ellimist's favor. As the Ellimist points out in EC, evil has a natural advantage over good because destruction is much simpler than creation. Therefore, the rules of the game would have to do something to even the playing field. If they both got the same number of moves and could exert the same amount of influence, Crayak would almost undoubtedly win no matter what the Ellimist did. Which isn't something either of them want, because they both want a challenge.
As for other 'rules', one of them seems to be that any sentient being must not be killed without offering it a way to get out of its situation. This seems to apply even to creatures on the border of sentience, such as sperm whales.
And before anybody points out "but what about the Pemalites?", I've got an answer to that one too. Did anybody else notice how big the Howlers' Achilles Heel (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AchillesHeel) was? You've got a race of killers who only kill because they don't understand that what they are doing is wrong, and yet they share memories, so that if you so much as gave one of them a hug (without dying in the process, mind you, but still), the entire race would pull a Heel Face Turn (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HeelFaceTurn). This seems like a gigantic oversight on Crayak's part, but I think it actually wasn't. Rather, I think that it's the only way he could create the Howlers and still abide by the rules of the game. This way, any race that the Howlers were ordered to kill have an inherent choice, a way out of their situation, although nobody until Jake was able to put the pieces together and figure it out.
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It's playing chess on an infinite amount of boards, and each time you make a move, the other side gets to make a move; the move they make may not counter the move you made at the moment, but 2000 moves later, it might. So for them, they take the role of non-interference because each move they allow themselves to make, they also allow the other to make a move. If either tries to 'win the game' by just clearing the board, that's one move, and the other person's counter move would be to 'restore' the board back to before it was cleared.
MM4 implies that instead of crayak only playing black and Ellimist playing white, Crayak is allowed to tempt Jake (ie. move white's pieces while playing as Black) in exchange for letting Ellimist screw around with the timelines on another board. However, because this is probably a deviation from 'standard play' The Ellimist's condition would probably be that Jake has to 'agree' to it. In either case, he had a piece that would ensure that whatever Jake chose, Crayak would lose; Cassie. She single handedly destabilizes the alternate timeline with her presence if Jake says 'Yes'. And if Jake said 'No', then Crayak loses and the Ellimist gets to manipulate the Falla Kadrat situation for free.
Keep in mind that they play a game with every world and conflict as their chessboard; Earth is but one board in the infinite boards they have in the galaxy. Z-Space 'shifting' so that Earth which was only days away, now being months away; could have been one of Crayak's moves: to slow down the andalites, and allow the Yeerks time to set up a beachhead on Earth. When the andalites finally move, the yeerks were ready, and blew them out of orbit. What Crayak then considered his victory (because Crayak was probably thinking this was a fight between the Andalites vs The yeerks on a new board; Earth) would turn out to be a diversion by the Ellimist to set up the meeting of six; Elfangor and the five animorphs. Elfangor's decision for Aximili to stay on the dome cemented their later meeting of Ax.
By the time Crayak had realized this, the Animorphs were already in action. he'd probably realized this when Jake peered through the lines of space and time at Temrash's death, resulting in Crayak shifting his attention back to that board.
Of course, this is all just conjecture, so take what you will.
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The chess reference seems the best way to desvribe it so messiah you get some applause from me fpt that. Thats what their basically doing taking turns with their "pawns" gebtly pushing them twoard a desired gaol and predicting the others goal. The animorphs and the yeerks in the game I would think are "queens" the most powerfull pieces in that game taunting each other plotting the destruction of the other through carefull movement and traps.
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I think that's a nice theory Zero about the steps taken by each player.
newBlazingAngel to put players onto chess pieces:
Yeerks are more like Rooks and Bishops dominating the whole of the board (Earth) midgame but they start off hidden behind pawns
Andalites Queen because there's so few of them but they can make powerful moves if their attention was focused on the board
Humans (obviously) Pawns but only 1 step at a time not knowing about the war
Hork Bajir Pawns who only take pieces en passant because they are limited to guard dog status. Enemy pawns (humans) who move to far forward (find out too much) are easily killed by them.
Animorphs Knights because they can move in ways that neither Yeerks or Andalites would think to move. They can fork enemy pieces putting them onto the defensive in a single surprising move.
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hmm yeah thats another way of looking at them as chess pieces pretty well thought out. Lets try to think of some new rules. Maybe theirs an extent to how extreme the interference can be. In the ellemist chronicles he was interfering pretty bad (creating entire meteor belts to stop two specioes who were at war. that kind of stuff) so he probably had to get out of habit. even when he revealed himself to crayak he mpved an entire planet in its orbit. Our planet.
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If Earth is a chessboard, then the animorphs are definitely Kings as much as they are Knights. Taking any single one of them out, means ending the game for Earth. In a normal chess match, this means that if you put any of the kings in checkmate, they are all killed. The death need not be physical; it could be a metaphorical death, as in Book 31, marco says clearly, that if Tom took Jake's father, Jake would take Tom. Regardless of whether Tom won or Jake won, Jake loses either way, since he would reveal his identity as an animorph, lose his father and brother (traumatizing him) and following that, break down. Subsequently, the animorphs would each lose it; Jake was the center, and if he fell, they would all follow.
The Yeerks each are a chess piece; most of them are Pawns, the Sub Vissers are mostly rooks; powerful but limited to straight directions, and the Vissers are Queens; The most powerful on the planet. The Council of Thirteen are all Kings, though they are different from the animorphs in the sense that they do not participate in battle, and are never met except via hologram. They have no knights, which is why they often cannot trap the animorphs. (Any decent chess player will know that the knight is the third most valuable piece after the King and Queen, as it can move in nearly any direction and are often used to trap pieces) Tom is the only exception, as he is a pawn, and after Temrash's death, his second yeerk eventually reaches the end of the board (discovers the morphing cube and escapes with it) subsequently being promoted to a Queen (strongest piece in the game).
Humans would be pawns that belong to neither black and white; the Yeerks infest humans, adding those pawns into their numbers.
Since this game is a little bit different than conventional chess, and there are far more pieces than a conventional chess board, these allow for multiple kings, queens, rooks, knights, bishops and so on. However the King status is the same; taking them out will end the game for that board. Also, a single piece may not be only limited to one role; The Animorphs are an example of six knights, as well as six kings. A single loss to any one of them will compromise them all, therefore they each have to maneuver well and carefully.
FYI, But the Andalites are often thought to be Queens, because of their power, but they also Kings; taking them out will end the game.
Ultimately, the Ellimist doesn't interfere too much (Because every move he makes allows Crayak a counter move, and Crayak's move are all about destruction, which is far easier to do than to create; this means that the more moves he allows himself, the more moves he allows crayak, and the effects of crayaks moves will have a further reach than his own)
The only 'direct' interference he has ever made would be to 'save the Hork Bajir' (an umbrella term which allows him to interfere enough to save the hork bajir, ie. returning Tobias to the same location, creating the valley, leading Jara and Ket to escape on their own, giving Tobias his morphing power back) this eventually turns out to be a move that helps ends the war, considering how the Hork Bajir were eseential for Jake and the Animorphs to establish control over the Pool Ship. We are never told whether Crayak allowed this (though it would be implausible for him not to notice, or stop it, therefore implying that he simply made another move in exchange and left it to his own pieces (The Yeerks) to undo the Ellimist's attempts)
And technically against Crayak, he didn't move Earth physically at all. He pulled the strands of space and time, effectively shifting the earth forward or backwards through time to dodge it; minimal interference, maximal effect. He has always played by this way; making the most change with minimal interference.
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I don't think the REAL game started till after Crayak and the Ellimist were on the same omnipotent level and agreed to new rules. Before they were both still confined to the limits of the physical world in terms of destruction or seeding life, with time being linear also to them.
My interpretation of the chess board was a metaphor for the pieces. You would have to create a whole new "board game" to fit all the pieces literally as you tried to do.
Also if you're being pedantic:
And technically against Crayak, he didn't move Earth physically at all. He pulled the strands of space and time, effectively shifting the earth forward or backwards through time to dodge it; minimal interference, maximal effect. He has always played by this way; making the most change with minimal interference.
Yes he did move the Earth however you try to write it Earth was displaced by manipulating space-time and this move isn't "tiny". It's a very obtrusive move that has the ramification of forcing Crayak to finally learn to reach his level of omnipotence. His style of gameplay was minimal interference and he learned improvisation. I think it's the new rules that force both him and Crayak to use minimal interference except in the cases where things are too important such as your example Tobias and the Hork Bajir. The non-interference rule affects both players but it's not clear to what extent. The creation of the Howler would not be a small move but since it's "creation" as opposed to "destruction" that might be allowed by their game.
It is easier to destroy than to create but the universe is infinite (or vast enough to effectively be) which means destruction still would not be so easy under rules such as "I create a antimatter wave that will scatter unweakened throughout the universe and annihilate all matter"
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Would a 3-D chess board work as a metaphor?
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It's an added dimension ^^
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wouldnt a 3D chess board just be a regular chess board?
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Well a real chess board but if you play on a computer it can be 2D. If you imagine a 3D "board" well not really a board then it gets more interesting...
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How the ellemist could really move the andaalites like chess pieces: Move them to a needed point in z space.
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Okay, so the chess metaphor isn't completely accurate. Rather, it's a chess game where the pieces, assuming you don't choose to move them, will move on their own. If they happen to make a move that you don't want them to make, you could 'correct it'; this would count as your own move. Because you've made a move, the other player could make a move as well.
Even if Crayak did make an anti-matter wave that destroys all life in the universe, he's making one move, and the next move is the Ellimist's. The Ellimist could either bend space, time and so on to undo the wave. That would be his move. Crayak's counter to that would be to undo the Ellimist's counter, and their subsequent uses of the undo feature will rip apart space and time, effectively ending all of them, including Crayak and the Ellimist. It is why Crayak and Ellimist no longer fight physically; they are bound to space and time and the constant manipulation of it by either party will eventually result in complete loss for everyone.
So even if Crayak could do an 'annhiliation wave' it would be a moot point, since both he and the Ellimist know that it will end in a draw, with no winner.
Another rule would possibly be that their 'intereference' cannot harm sentient life directly. This explains why the whale lives despite being beached (an extremely unlikely event) in Book 27, and another possible reason why Crayak can't push the 'annihilate everything' button. They can however, create species, whose destruction of other species would not count towards it. Ultimately, the Ellimist and Crayak are always playing by proxies.
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I think a no tickling rule was probably made somewhere along the line.
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That was made after Crayak tried tickling the Ellimist, whose subsequent fit of laughter caused him to fart. This resulted in six of Crayak's worlds being consumed by a fog of gas that has made the planets barren and devoid of all life, forever.
They try not to talk about it much.
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That was made after Crayak tried tickling the Ellimist, whose subsequent fit of laughter caused him to fart. This resulted in six of Crayak's worlds being consumed by a fog of gas that has made the planets barren and devoid of all life, forever.
They try not to talk about it much.
yeah the Crayak was surprised cause he was sure (as was I) that the Ellimist farted rainbows and pooped butterflies.
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and then the rainbow got all over him and he hid in the corner shivering for a while.
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:o o-ok, moving on from this rather disgusting part of the conversation...
A question to get you all thinking: How did the Ellimist and Crayak play by proxies? They cannot directly interface with the physical world and I'm thinking it's beyond even their powers to literally FORCE a creature to choose something against his will.
One more question, just to get the brain juices flowing: What happens if there IS a victor in this millennia-long game of theirs? What happens to the loser? I mean, what DOES happen to him? The way it's described, they're beyond time and space, and therefore unkillable. Can they intentionally kill themselves without bringing utter destruction to the universe?
Just some food for thought. ;)
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The loser has to wear a dress in public.
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the loser has to wear nothing in public
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Ok, we're moving RIGHT BACK into the disturbing part of this discussion... does anyone have anything to say about my post?
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A question to get you all thinking: How did the Ellimist and Crayak play by proxies? They cannot directly interface with the physical world and I'm thinking it's beyond even their powers to literally FORCE a creature to choose something against his will.
I figure it'd be more like what the Ellimist did to Jara in #13. "Head voice say, run! Go that way!" And later in the same book to Tobias, giving him information about where to go, and maybe subtly guiding his actions from time to time, but never actually forcing him to do anything.
A similar example might actually be how the Ellimist supposedly brought all the Animorphs together when they first met Elfangor. Sure, he may have manipulated events to bring that specific group of people together (I don't buy that Jake and Rachel were only 'accidentally' included in the Animorphs team, seeing as they were better fit for their particular roles than anybody else on the team), and he may have planted the idea to take the shortcut through the construction site, but he never forced them to act in any way against their will.
Crayak probably works the same way. In any case, neither Crayak nor the Ellimist would ever need to force their proxies to work against their will; if you can find the right person, and guide them to the right place at the right time (provided you know their personality well enough), you can typically predict fairly well what they will do and use that to your advantage.
One more question, just to get the brain juices flowing: What happens if there IS a victor in this millennia-long game of theirs? What happens to the loser? I mean, what DOES happen to him? The way it's described, they're beyond time and space, and therefore unkillable. Can they intentionally kill themselves without bringing utter destruction to the universe?
Interesting question. From what I understand, although the Ellimist and Crayak exist beyond time and space, they seem to stay within the boundaries of our galaxy, for whatever reason. Perhaps their influence is more finite than we think it is, or perhaps occupying multiple galaxies would just put too much strain on their attention spans. Whatever. But the point is, perhaps the punishment for losing would be to be kicked out of the galaxy (and maybe that's where Crayak came from!)
It's actually sort of a moot point, though. Since they can't fight each other directly without destroying our galaxy and thus destroying both of them, the winner would have no way of enforcing whatever penalty is chosen for the loser.
So, the more likely option is that the winner would be awarded a point (or maybe the loser drinks a shot) and they'd just start playing again.
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An excellent and thought-provoking response to my questions, Tobey. I thank you kindly. I never thought that the Ellimist and Crayak could manipulate people by reading them. That also brings up the question of how powerful they really, what are their limits, etc. I may have to start another thread...
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Pretty sure the only penalty for losing is losing itself.
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Maybe the reward for winning is one, chosen act of extreme good, or extreme destruction.
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Or maybe they accumulate points throughout millennia, and the one who has the most points will have to concede which side is stronger: Life or death? Creation or destruction? Good or bad? Love or hate? Communism or democracy? That sort of thing. I can totally see Crayak mellowing throughout the years as the game goes on, and eventually, while still being stubborn enough not to change, coming to admit that the Ellimist's side wins.
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I dont think crayak could do that. He is the ellemists rival and thats what he chose to be. He will never give up. its not in his personality
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Maybe the reward for winning is one, chosen act of extreme good, or extreme destruction.
Oh, I like that idea! Maybe that's how Crayak was allowed to create the Howlers, for example.
Communism or democracy?
Er, which one's which? Crayak would favor neither communism nor democracy, seeing as how he doesn't believe in anything 'for the good of all' or 'by the people for the people.' The Ellimist, though, would probably be a communist, given his origin, lol.
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It was previously stated that tom was a pawn. I feel that is an understatement. I would say he is more of an accidentally created king that is moving around stragetically to taunt and confuse jake. Clouding his judgement, causing slip ups, and taking his attention off other things.
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Tom really did move through the ranks, didn't he.
[spoiler]Too bad K.A. killed him off. [/spoiler]
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yeah he was tossed from yeerk to yeerk