Richard's Animorphs Forum
Animorphs Section => Animorphs Forum Classic => Topic started by: wotw2112 on August 04, 2008, 01:29:59 PM
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I don't know, this topic might be interesting. I'd certainly be interested to hear what people think.
As stated above: which race seems most cliched?
Hork-Bajir - the pacifists turned unwillling shock troops?
Taxxons - the evil eating machines?
Andalites - The arrogant superior race?
Gedds - the stupid tools?
The Yeerks - the bodysnatching "evil" moral-paradox?
Maybe there are some other options too.
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The Hork-Bajir and the Nartecs somewhat
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I have to agree that the Hork Bajir sorta do...
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the hork bajir are pretty complexish,
the taxxons were kinda one dimensional until 53 when we find out most of them are just slaves to the hunger
the gedds kinda were tho, just dull pawns really
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The really big, strong, dangerous pacifists with low intelligence who supposedly didn't even know what fighting was until the Yeerks enslaved them. They fight the big dumb fighter cliche pretty well.
I'm no expert on cliches, but the Hork-Bajir seem to be cliche in general.
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I think there is an obvious choice that you all seem to have forgotten. The Skrit Na! They abduct people and other creatures from various planets to put them in alien zoos or perform medical experiments on them, their ships are supposed to be designed in the cliche way, and the Na are described as looking suspiciously like the stereotypical "Grey aliens." How much more cliche can you get? Not that it's a bad thing, I found the Skrit Na to be pretty funny because of their cliche design, since it clashed with the very original design of the other creatures they encountered.
The Pemalites could also be considered slightly cliche in the sense that they were incredibly advanced, but also completely pacifistic by nature. Maybe not cliche, but certainly been done before. Not that I'm complaining, I kinda liked what little we heard about the Pemalites.
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Yeah, the Skrit Na are your steriotypical alien abductors, but of cours their cliche-ness was on purpose. They are possibly the most cliche, because they are meant to be.
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Aren't the Skrit Na ****roach-like?
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Aren't the Skrit Na ****roach-like?
The Skrit are, but the Na stand erect.
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Yes I know they were meant to be, that's why I found them funny.
The Skrit were insect-like, but the Na were more humanoid and were described as being very similar to the cliche Greys.
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The Skirt Na actually seemed to be making fun of the little green men cliche, which is why they only showed up once imo. The Andalites were created to break that cliche.
Saying that though, the biggest cliche to me are the Andalites. Not by their physical appearance (that's actually pretty original), but the fact that they seemed like saints and saviours at first, only for us to find out later on about their arrogance and their double sided objectives.
The Yeerks themselves were also a cliche, seeming all evil at first, and then tugging our heart-strings by revealing to us of their circumstances. Most of the series was cliched as well, right down to the individual Animorphs.
Jake: The all good american hero
Marco: The comical specialist
Ax: the foreign informant/outsider,
Cassie: the pacifist
Rachel: the girl power, tough as nails character.
Then there's also Visser Three, which is like the complete collection of every stereotypical bad guy out there (was there ever actually any sort of depth to him, other than wanting more power? ::))
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Wow, good catch on the Skrit Na.
Good points.
And Visser Three is definitely the most cliched character in the entire series. The clear "main antagonist" if you will.
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The Hork-Bajir Chronicles may have been mainly used to detail more of the history of the Hork-Bajir, Andalites and Yeerks; but I also found it interesting to see Visser Three's point of view. He's still very cliche, but it was nice to see!
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Visser Three is definitely cliche. He's the typical "I'm so evil that I have no redeeming qualities whatsoever, and I will never change" villain. Someone so destructive that it's a wonder why anyone follows him instead of killing him off.
I know some people have tried to kill Visser Three/have him killed off, like that guy in book eight. However, in real life everyone would just say "Ok, this guy has to die" and kill him during a speech in front of everyone.
But yeah. He's a big cliche.
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what's cliched mean?
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what's cliched mean?
Basically it means when something has become a commonly used stereotype.
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uh...can't think of one. why? because I don't know any stereotypes...
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You've never heard the terms "strong as an ox" and "cute as a button"???
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uh...not really...
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I think the Yeerks (as much as I love the little buggers) are pretty stereotypical tiny aliens with big egos who want to take over the world.
Come to think of it, so were the Helmacrons...
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As far as a species is concerned Skrit Na definitely follow the "traditional" cliche for aliens. However, I think the Yeerks follow a more recent cliche trend when it comes to alien species. How many books/movies/tv shows have used the idea of 'controllers' in some shape or form? Invasion of the Body Snatchers, Animorphs, Stargate (I think, correct me if I'm wrong), the new Stephenie Meyer book The Host, even the Borg loosely follow the trend. I mean, the list goes on and on. It's an incredibly common theme, and it seems to be becoming the new "concept" for aliens, taking over the Skrit Na 'abduct and experiment' model.
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what's cliched mean?
A cliche is something that's been done a whole lot of times by a whole lot of companies. Normally, it's because it's popular. However, people sometimes bash cliche things because they've been done so many times.
Some people don't like to see things that they've already seen so many times, but the reason so many companies and stuff do those things is because they're popular.
Cliche to me doesn't really mean bad. It's just something that's been done before.
Take Visser three. He's much like Skeletor from He-Man, or that villain from Final Fantasy Six, or Cruella Deville from 101 Dalmations. The kind of villain that is just awful and doesn't have any redeeming qualities.
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uh...no don't really see the similarities...alth ough that could be because I've never heard of half those villians.
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I would argue that Visser Three has redeeming qualities. Just look at Visser Three circa HBC!
Although yeah, the classic V3 from the beginning of the series was your typical evil villain archetype, screaming and pointing and being a very one-dimensional villain. I think KA did a good job of giving him some depth as the series went on, though. I think she realized that even the classic villain couldn't be static, or else it would ruin her message.
But I'm getting off topic...a cliche isn't necessarily referring to something a company uses. It's referring to something that has been used so much that it loses its meaning.
For example, 'actions speak louder than words' is said often and really people don't take its meaning to heart as much as they would if someone had said it for the first time. It's become cliche.
In the context of this topic, a cliche character (or species) is one that has been used over and over again to the point of becoming predictable. In the fanfic world a Mary Sue would be considered one of the biggest cliche's.
Basically, to use a cliche to describe a cliche (:P) it's been done...
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I think he's (Daphnes) referring to the fact that they're supposed to be a "pure evil" character that the audience is meant to hate, hate, hate, hate, hate.
They're not meant to be sympathetic bad guys.
And cliches aren't bad of themselves. Add a little imagination and a cliche is a good starting point for ideas. Just gotta find a spin.
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Well, yeah. I mean, technically everything is just expounding upon a cliche. All archetypes are cliches, and its hard to find a piece of literature without some version of an archetypes being used - even if the archetype has been warped. The better authors make you forget that you're reading a cliche. The bad authors make the cliche so awful that it becomes bad (*Mary-Sue and Gary-Stue run off into the sunset with evil plans of destroying fiction everywhere*)
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what is a mary/gary sue? is that where an,author puts themselves in a story and warps reality and shatters the 4th wall?
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a mary sue, yes. a gary-sue not sure.
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Dude. Gary and Mary were just completely made-up people that Terenia was using as an example of bad writing.
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visser 3 rules!
and i love his cliche ness/
i think that animorphs is a huge cliche but its part of what makes it awesome, and it was for kids after all
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Mary/Gary are often self-inserts. Or completely original characters that lack originality (aka 7th Animorph who is accepted and liked by everyone and has extra powers and manages to save Rachel from dying and Jake from going insane and because of her existence the Animorphs get a happy ending). Blaaaaaaaaaaaaah!
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(*Mary-Sue and Gary-Stue run off into the sunset with evil plans of destroying fiction everywhere*)
Lol, the image that formed in my head when I read this was hilarious. I will be laughing at it for some time... ;D
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Somebody on fanfiction.net just told me that my character was a bit Gary-Stu-ish. I would have been offended except for the fact that it was kind of intentional! My main character is based on me, although I don't plan on making the story boring or cliche.
I can see how some people might see the Animorphs as cliche, although I wouldn't necessarily agree. Everybody has a part of their personality that is similar to somebody else's, but that doesn't make them a cliche person.
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Animorphs may have been a bunch of cliches, but it was a bunch of cliches done well. IMO, it was able to use the best elements from them all and work to keep things fresh, which is what set it apart from other kids book series at the time.
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The humans: what with the whole "It is our differences that make use strong and we can still over come the worst things with human spirit and resourcefulness and blah blah blah"
The yeerks to, the supposedly harmless thing that spreads like a virus and takes of the world.
But still,like he ^ said, well done cliches
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Didn't really think of including the humans...but that's a great point. They probably are the biggest cliche of all.
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I dunno... The Andalites arrogance seems cliche at first glance, but imagine the burden they carry and it quickly becomes apparent that its a psychological backlash.. not so cliche or simple after all....
Yeerks seem cliche, the idea of the enemy among us, but
A; theyre so well executed it makes up for this and
B; the ethical quandries battling a controller creates MORE than make up for this.
Hork-Bajir Seem a bit cliche; but their biology helps this, and theyre paired with either the main good or bad guys in most instances, so they can be forgiven as they are supporting characters....
The Taxxons were something Id never seen before, so not so cliche for me...
Visser 3 was incredibly... I hesitate to say cliche so Ill say refreshingly traditional. Classic if you will ;) and ya can't argue witht he classics. ;D
And after that I cant think of anything remotely cliche....
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may be a little off-topic, but what is Gary-stue? (somebody explained me about Mary-Sue, but not for that one...)
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Um...I'm guessing a Gary-sue is just a male version of a mary-sue.
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Yup. It's the male Mary-Sue. You don't see Gary's as often, but they lurk around.
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Yup. It's the male Mary-Sue. You don't see Gary's as often, but they lurk around.
Any idea why they're not so prevalent? Or were you just referring to the phrase?
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Visser Three is definitely cliche. He's the typical "I'm so evil that I have no redeeming qualities whatsoever, and I will never change" villain. Someone so destructive that it's a wonder why anyone follows him instead of killing him off.
I know some people have tried to kill Visser Three/have him killed off, like that guy in book eight. However, in real life everyone would just say "Ok, this guy has to die" and kill him during a speech in front of everyone.
But yeah. He's a big cliche.
Well, Hitler ended up killing himself, no-one assassinated him...
I think the bit of narration we saw by V3 in HBC gave him slightly more depth, but he was slightly cliche.
I don't think any of the aliens were really cliche, though, they all were pretty interesting to me. Maybe the Hork-Bajir were, but I still liked them. I think Ellimist and Crayak were the most cliche, but then do they exactly count as species?
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Helmacrons: A race of short, nay, microscopic beings with napoleonic complex. 'Nuff said.
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Yup. It's the male Mary-Sue. You don't see Gary's as often, but they lurk around.
Any idea why they're not so prevalent? Or were you just referring to the phrase?
No idea. I think it may simply have to do with the fact that in a lot of genre's there are more female fanfic writers than males, so if you read a self-insert story the insert is more likely to be female. I suppose in the novel world you would see a lot of Gary-Stu's in romance novels and whatnot.
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Yup. It's the male Mary-Sue. You don't see Gary's as often, but they lurk around.
Any idea why they're not so prevalent? Or were you just referring to the phrase?
No idea. I think it may simply have to do with the fact that in a lot of genre's there are more female fanfic writers than males, so if you read a self-insert story the insert is more likely to be female. I suppose in the novel world you would see a lot of Gary-Stu's in romance novels and whatnot.
Thanks. It's something to look out for...nice to have a name to put to this unfortunate despicable phenomenon!
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I think Ellimist and Crayak are pretty cliched. The all-powerful mysterious entity.
However, I thought Ellimist's background story was really rather interesting and not cliched.
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Though these are tropes, not cliches, it gives a pretty good rundown.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Animorphs
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I definitely agree that the Ellimist is extremely Cliched. the All powerful god-like entity who relies on prophets (Animorphs) and wants to save evry living creature in the world and only hates the 1 supreme evil of the universe? thats pretty cliche...... however this ambiguous town that has ever single imaginable trait also might hold its own..... but idk
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ellimist. simple as that.
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I also forgot to say Crayak, he's pretty cliche too.
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yeah, i like the crayak. and the howler is kinda like the joker. haha
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Howlers like the Joker? Do explain.
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the twistedness and humor of it all.
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definetly Ellimist and Crayak
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Howlers like the Joker? Do explain.
maybe they meant the Drode?
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oh oops! you're totally right goom. i meant the drode!
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how is the Drode cliche?
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well, he's not. but he reminds me of the joker.
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I would have to say the Skrit-Na lol I mean aliens who go around and kidnap and perform medical experiments on the populaces of different planets? *brow raise* Gee, where have we heard that before? ;)
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well, how they look is also cliched. the typical, black diamond eyed greys.
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Hehehe Take me to your leader!
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they are in the game Perfect Dark, they're in X-Files,
close encounters, star wars episode II, A.I.
they're in Indiana Jones!
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Hehehe d*mn Skrit-Na they're everywhere!
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i know. funny in the series they're not of much importance.
how come the yeerks didn't infest full grown Na?
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Perhaps even the grown-up Na were unsuitable hosts as well as the juvenile Skrits. I remember reading that some species were unable to be infested because they didn't have centrally located brains. Could this also have been the case with the Na?
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maybe their brains were too big?
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That's an interesting thought. Though i'm thinking a Yeerk could probably just stretch itself to accommodate the brain when sinking into the Na's crevices. Hmm...maybe there's a limit to the Yeerk's elasticity in that scenario? After all, it is a living being not magical silly putty XD
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that would be interesting. maybe one wouldn't need to control the whole brain?
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Though I think you'd need both the memories and the motor functions...if the Yeerk was hoping to successfully play their host to a tee...if not then I suppose you'd only really need sole control over motor functions.
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so maybe there's a limit to what a yeerk can do. they should mention that in classifying their species, like the Hawjabrawn.
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Yep, they should.
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i'm all of a sudden fascinated by yeerk physiology. where are the yeerk brains? and how big are they approximately?
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I don't think they can infest them because the Na are too erratic and annoying to be controlled, even for the Yeerks.
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i'm all of a sudden fascinated by yeerk physiology. where are the yeerk brains? and how big are they approximately?
i would think that yeerks don't have brains in a sense that we would think of them.
but seeing as what they can do, i would say their entire body is the brain (the other oragans just have a duel function)
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the entire body is the brain? weird...so a brain wrapping around a brain. what about those fin things and the attenae we see in the pictures?
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I reckon CounterInstinct was right, the Yeerks most likely have Andalites on their sides. Like the case in #18: The Decision. All throughout the book only one Andalite is stated to be a Controller. A handful of Andalites may have been forcefully or voluntarily offered services in return for some sort of mercy, not realizing that the Yeerks would never spare them.
On that note, Azguard, I, too, always wonder what happened to the Andalite traitors in that story. And also to Gonrod and Estrid. Did they ever make it home and reveal their mission to the Andalite people?
I always thought the Yeerk’s Homeworld was guarded by the Andalites. Both these Homeworlds would have been their top priorities to guard. The Yeerks that first made it out, now have the number of worlds they’ve succeeded in conquering, but not their Homeworld.
Dameg, yeah, Ax NEVER morphed any creature from the Andalite Homeworld. Nor did he mention he had any. Could the day they lost above the Earth’s atmosphere been like his very first day in the military?! Even so, why doesn’t he have his practice morph, like the kafit bird??? Curious.
More to the point, Andalites are meant to be spies, and little of this faculty is highlighted in the few Andalite references we’ve read.
Can’t blame the authors with all these errors. It’s hard to not have all these K.A.S.U.’s with all the Ghostwriters that were enlisted to fill in…
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ax morph: maybe because of the new war situation with the Empire, the Andalite training has been either cut back, scaled down, or degraded.
Yeerk Homeworld: as for the Yeerk homeworld, my theory was that at first it was blockaded by the Andalite Fleet, but somewhere along the line it was liberated, increasing Yeerk forces, spreading Andalite military might, and thus delaying both the hope of an Andalite rescue, as well as shuffling Andalite priorities (like making battling over the Yeerk Homeworld the #1 priority and pushing back rescuing Earth to #2, or even #3 behind the Anati situation).