Richard's Animorphs Forum
Animorphs Section => Animorphs Forum Classic => Topic started by: bizarrocarlos on April 18, 2010, 09:35:55 PM
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we all know when the animorphs get messed up in morph they morph back to themselves and heal.
let's say while they are human, they get an arm chopped off. then they morph to whatever and back to human. their arm should be back in one piece right?
i don't think so. when you morph all your mass goes to z-space,then you get that same amount of mass back. so if you morph without an arm then theoretically you should'nt have enough mass to grow back an arm since you morphed with less mass than usual. but morphing heals all wounds unless they are genetic.
so theoretically this is a loophole that screws the morpher over.
anybody else think so or not?
yes i have considered how mass for morphing larger things comes out of nowhere.
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we all know when the animorphs get messed up in morph they morph back to themselves and heal.
let's say while they are human, they get an arm chopped off. then they morph to whatever and back to human. their arm should be back in one piece right?
i don't think so. when you morph all your mass goes to z-space,then you get that same amount of mass back. so if you morph without an arm then theoretically you should'nt have enough mass to grow back an arm since you morphed with less mass than usual. but morphing heals all wounds unless they are genetic.
so theoretically this is a loophole that screws the morpher over.
anybody else think so or not?
yes i have considered how mass for morphing larger things comes out of nowhere.
have you? rachel gets her arm chopped off, admitedly while in bear morph and is ok. she also gets chopped in half as a starfish, and both half demorph. there is seemingly extra mass floating around in z space for just such occasions.
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I seem to remember something from book 4 where someone gets dismembered and Cassie was busy wondering whether the morph would heal it. It did. I think all of the extra mass in Z-space comes from other morphs and the like some of the mass that the Animorphs used for a big morph may have been the mass that some random Andalite sent into Z-space while morphing something smaller.
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Poor random Andalite. Re-morphs oen day and has no eyes or lung or something.
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But then he just takes the mass from another morph and so on and so on. I'm sure there's plenty of extra mass to go around.
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So you just have to make sure that there is always someone in morph with lesser mass than they bear in normal form, otherwise it'll screw everything up and someone will be missing parts of himself.
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Well, I said morphing and the like. Not all of it has to come from a morph but I'm sure that's where some of it comes from.
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yeah, poor andalite family on their shuttle ends up missing a bulkhead.
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i like to think that this apparent breach of the conservation of mass has been taken care of with some advanced alien technology. or the physical properties of z-space, or some other, previously unknown dimension.
or, as a last resort, i fall back on my sunday school animorphs answer:
it was all the ellimist.
otherwise, the animorphs would have been filleted three ways from sunday before tobias would ever have had to worry about that pesky two-hour time limit.
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I always assumed that Z-space somehow contained potential mass, which the morphing technology uses when morphing larger creatures. I highly doubt the extra mass is borrowed from the spare mass of other morphers, or else there's no way they'd be able to morph something as large as a whale.
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I always figured that there was a large collection of background mass (or energy) that was stored in Z-space either by the Andalites themselves, or just naturally there for such an occasion.
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Yeah that's pretty much my thinking too musicman.
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or z-space has mass.
and morphing is simply eating away at the mass of z-space, and replacing it when necessary.
*shrug* does the universe have mass? maybe the andalites have hooked us all up to the largest planet in their known universe. we can clearly reconstruct the chemical properties of this "mass", so no worries as to the source...
or it's a conversion of dark matter to.... not-dark matter. it wouldn't surprise me to know that the andalites have stumbled across the answers to the origins of the universe.
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This one topic just bought my Escafil Device theory crashing down like house of cards. Made of lead.
I don't know how to feel about this. (http://i40.tinypic.com/oku0j4.jpg)
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or z-space has mass.
and morphing is simply eating away at the mass of z-space, and replacing it when necessary.
which would explain z space shifting rather nicely...
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well everything is made up of atoms.
and assuming they make up empty space as well, then z-space is just mass waiting to happen.
but i'm talking about losing an arm while NOT morphed, you are demorphed.
if you give 20% of mass you will get back 20% of said mass.
not enough original mass to grow your arm back. unless z-space compensates for lost mass and fills in the blanks to make the anatomy of the morpher complete.
but ax once said if your mass is destroyed while it's in z-space, you're screwed.
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Man, this whole thing would work SO much better with Atazin physics... partly because they say that conservation of mass is an illusion created by the local nature of the universe (as far as I can tell, it's entirely compatible with reality and modern physics, too). Then again, most of sci-fi works better with Atazin physics. So does most of real-world science. Stupid real physics should catch up at some point here...
This one topic just bought my Escafil Device theory crashing down like house of cards. Made of lead.
I don't know how to feel about this. (http://i40.tinypic.com/oku0j4.jpg)
It so does not. It just changes the equation. I think your theory is still remarkably solid overall ^_^
Really, guys, if matter can be pulled from Z-space at will, I don't think replacing a bear's leg is going to put too much strain on the overall amount of mass available.
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yeah I'm kind of with the OP on this. I mean I agree with the consensus that there is random particles of matter or anti-matter or potential matter or whatever floating around in Z-Space which gives our intrepid heroes the ability to morph into something of greater mass, but the fact is, when they morph something of smaller mass, their own unique mass is sent to Zero-Space completely distinct from all of that other mass. Remember in 18, when all the Andalite scientists were floored that the extruded mass of the Animorphs had shape, pattern, cohesion? That they could be reintegrated into normal space from n-dimensional space? That implies that the base morph, or neutral form or whatever is considered one distinct unit to the morphing technology. If Jake got his arm chopped off, that would no longer be a part of the unit, so what would PROBABLY happen, at least my theory, is that the code from Jake's DNA would just make Jake like it should--complete, with two arms--but only using the mass he extruded into Zero-Space (minus an arm). So he'd be Jake, but roughly 10 pounds lighter.
I mean, obviously this theory is entirely contingent on which book you're taking as canon. My theory's based on #18, just because that's the one where I feel like we get the most hard info about the morphing technology, but like someone said, #32 contradicts it, I'm sure there's a book where Ax loses his tail or leg or a bunch of blood or something, idk.
In either case it's a fast way to lose weight, right? Wanna lose forty pounds, cut off a leg. If only you could guarantee the morphing technology would consider your fat less relevant to construct than something else, like your liver or heart.
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Isn't it possible that the morph simply goes off of some combination of DNA, its own "image" or "save file" created of the user at the time of morphing, and the subconscious and conscious mental images the morpher has of themself?
What I've always pictured is that, when you morph (or demorph), it uses the DNA as a basis to create the animal, uses its unbiased "image" to cause the animal to become whatever age/size/etc. it was when acquired, corrects anything that doesn't fit the DNA image (ie. a severed limb), and then makes any adjustments based on the morpher's subconscious mental image of their body (ie. hair length, pierced ears), and finally uses the conscious image to finalize the process (morphing suit). The difference would be that the technology would only take the "image" of an acquired morph once (when it was acquired, obviously), whereas it would take a new "image" of the morpher every time they started a morph.
I know, I'm probably pushing it with such a complicated process, but it seems to me that this would solve basically every morphing-related issue out there. If it does that, it doesn't matter whether you lost mass before the morph; it'll call on extra mass from Z-space to reconstruct you because you missing a limb is simply not correct.
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about the OP.....
what about the mertil dealio? or the 'handi-capable' animorphs?
haha.... well, about the mental imagery, alum- no one can perfectly imagine his/her entire body (inside and out)... even subconsciously. i don't think you have the ability to "imagine" yourself back together when you morph to heal an injury... i think the technology automatically takes care of that for you. however, for those morph-artist-people, maybe that sort of imagery training or something is like.... the difference between keeping the plane on auto-pilot and manually flying it. *shrug* but to say that you can imagine yourself back to who you are.... implies that i might also imagine myself as forty pounds lighter next time i morph. or as being at least one cup larger. ;) but if the andalites could imagine themselves as having more muscle mass, etc... i mean, why not use it? there's bound to be some physical limitation to alterations that can be done, except again with piercings and hair length, etc.... also age. i'd love to get rid of my five (count them: five) wrinkles. D:
i reeeally don't think that katmike thought this one out very far. O___o
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Yeah, the "subconscious image" of the body would have to come after the technology automatically corrects the unbiased "image" it took so that it matched the DNA. Five steps- 1) DNA constructs the original animal 2) Unbiased image created by the technology itself ages/sizes creature, and builds most of the body 3) Creature is compared to DNA, anything inconsistent is corrected to match the DNA image 4) Morpher's subconscious image of the body in question is applied 5) Morpher's conscious thought is taken into account. Actually, I guess step 1 is pretty unnecessary.
Anyway, yeah, in theory, it would be possible to alter your appearance by concentrating hard enough, but that strikes me as a difficult thing to do...
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cite mystique from the x-men!
i know a lot of people who don't see themselves objectively- namely myself and a lot of other females. i'm always surprised to see myself in a mirror. but let's say that my subconscious image of my body is not what it is, if you catch my drift.
and..... wow. if the andalites could do all of that, i might actually be impressed. where's ax? i need him over here for a moment...
also, i have to know- what on earth drove the andalites to try to create the morphing technology? like, out of all the weapons in the universe.... why put so many resources into this one?
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Isn't obvious 'why this one'? I mean look at the power it gave the animorphs, they defied and empire! You think they would have been able to do that with just a really big gun?
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Well the morphing technology wasn't even designed for the war against the Yeerks. It was just a project they were working on around that time. And they don't even use it much against the Yeerks. I'm not sure why they came up with it.
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Intelligence technology, would be my guess. If the US can pour billions into spy satellites and long-range photography technology, the Andalites would probably be willing to put a lot of effort into developing the ultimate spy tech.
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well. i can see that, but for a species that seems to prefer a human medieval-ish code of honor, creating the ultimate sneaky spy weapon seems.... off. also potentially morally.... bad. couldn't you see the andalites originally intending a spy weapon of this magnitude to be more for morphing other andalites and/or sentient species, rather than local non-sentients?
well. that's what the CIA'd do. >____>; slash-'does'.
but then, katmike and reality. so.
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also, i have to know- what on earth drove the andalites to try to create the morphing technology? like, out of all the weapons in the universe.... why put so many resources into this one?
i actually started a topic about this a while ago. it really doesnt seem to mesh with what we know about them. i think the final consensus was an elimmist did it
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But that's our answer to everything in the Animorphs universe! It's so lame! I'm sure we can be more creative than that!
Would Andalite intel people see a problem with intending to morph sentient beings while developing the technology?
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andalites seem to have a superiority complex about their bodies though. morphing doesnt seem like a technology they would develop, or adopt beyond the use of a childs toy or something.
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LMAO, goob. well, something federal probably just had a bunch of regulations attached to it, damned be the consequences, you know?
perhaps, mr. 1234- double-oh-seven, that just reduced the social status of those who chose intelligence/morphing as a profession. :P
on the other hand, i would have thought the yeerks might have seen the morphing technology as something quite the opposite, as i doubt very much that most of them have great self-image.
oh, well. katmike being ironic. AGAIN.
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oh, well. katmike being ironic. AGAIN.
It's just kind of expected for me by now ::)
The Yeerks really seem to have never developed any technology of their own, though. They're using nothing but the outdated technology of other races, so it would be equally out of character for them to develop morphing technology. As for the Andalite superiority complex- I'm sure they're not all like that. We're just used to Ax and the military attitude that's been drummed into his head since birth. Intel people, like Court's saying, probably wouldn't have quite that issue.
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in some ways, their using other species' technology makes sense... it's pretty darn resource efficient, if i do say so myself. and they haven't had a lot of opportunity to create their own technology... being obssessed with this whole 'take over the universe' thing and all. when it comes to 'survival' and 'fancy computer programs', i'm pretty sure i know which the yeerks chose.
but what i suppose i'm getting at is this idea that the yeerks ought to have been after the morphing technology from the start. i mean, you're a race devoted to finding new bodies.... dingding! morphing technology! AND some other species already has invented/tested/quasi-mass-produced it!
granted, they're not about to give it to you, but....
and, well, maybe that is why the focus shifted. damn those andalites. D: creating problems for the universe.
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Keep in mind that the Yeerks and Andalites have been at war since before the Yeerks knew about the morphing technology (Visser 3, or whatever his title was, was unaware of its existence before Aldrea morphed the Jubba-Jubba thingy in HBC). Take an ongoing war, throw in Andalite pride and stubbornness, and a highly motivated, highly militaristic Yeerk ruling regime, and you've basically got a recipe for a war that will go on even when the solution is right in front of them. This, for once, is something KatMike didn't consider that I feel does make sense.
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i can't keep that in mind; i haven't read hbc since i was, like, fourteen. D:
i plead ignorance. plus, i like my idea better.
also, this topic has gone way, way off course. ish.
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You should totally reread it! It's my favorite book in the whole series!
And the way I see it, if a topic sparks a discussion like this, we shouldn't just cut it off because it's off topic from the original posts. We'd lose so many good thoughts related to the topic if we always did that.
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Consider this- if the Animorphs would never be able to get tattoos or piercings done as when they demorphed the ink/hole wouldn't be there- gutted!
Also, Marco and Rachel both had haircuts in the series and yet their hair didn't grow back when they de/morphed- what's up with that?
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haha- you know, g33kgirl- technically, they all had "haircuts"... and then, what constitutes "grow back"? you know? maybe, if none of us ever had haircuts, our DNA would naturally allow for 6m-long hair at the time we reach 15 or something. so maybe, strictly speaking, they all -guys and girls- ought to have had ridiculously long hair when they morphed. ^^
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I just had a mental image of them all demorphing into this:
(http://www.freewebs.com/metallicafanworld/Robert%20Trujillo56.jpg)
Rob Trujillo ftw :P
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HAH. HARDCORE. that's hilarious.
i was actually reminded of HP#1- where harry grows his hair back magically after a cut gone awry. :P but i happen to be a nerd of the childishly nerdy sort.
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Nerdy? Childish? I've been called those things :P
I've also been affectionately called a dork xD
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Like they say in the Ukraine: If you ain't a dork, you ain't nothin'
This entire forum is living proof of that ;D
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Consider this- if the Animorphs would never be able to get tattoos or piercings done as when they demorphed the ink/hole wouldn't be there- gutted!
Also, Marco and Rachel both had haircuts in the series and yet their hair didn't grow back when they de/morphed- what's up with that?
Yeah, the "subconscious image" of the body would have to come after the technology automatically corrects the unbiased "image" it took so that it matched the DNA. Five steps- 1) DNA constructs the original animal 2) Unbiased image created by the technology itself ages/sizes creature, and builds most of the body 3) Creature is compared to DNA, anything inconsistent is corrected to match the DNA image 4) Morpher's subconscious image of the body in question is applied 5) Morpher's conscious thought is taken into account. Actually, I guess step 1 is pretty unnecessary.
Sounds like a good explanation to me. It's probably the best way to explain a lot of things, including the way morphing "magically" takes size and age into account. There's nothing in DNA to do that, so something else must be at work; subconscious images of the body and conscious thought are, IMHO, acceptable answers.
I don't think step 1 is unnecessary, though. Think of all the times the Animorphs were dying (both in and out of morph); several times, they were clearly thinking more slowly and less clearly as a result of their impending death. I wouldn't trust my memory to recreate a morph, or recreate me, under those circumstances. DNA, on the other hand, isn't impacted at all by impending death, and therefore should be reliable.
One thing that bugs me, though, is bleeding. Several times in the series, the Animorphs mention that their morphs' DNA is stored in molecules in their bloodstream. Many times, their battles are quite bloody, sometimes to the point that they're bleeding to death. Why on Earth wouldn't one of those DNA-holding molecules slip out eventually? (And the same problem remains if you assume the DNA-holding molecules stay in the Animorphs' internal organs - the Animorphs, Rachel in particular, frequently have internal organs spilling out as a result of severe battle wounds.)
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i'll let scott elaborate on whatever he's got going for that one. he does seem to have all the answers. *eyebrow*
me, i totally reiterate: KAWL. katmike were lazy. for all we know, the process relies on some advanced understanding of whatever comes after quantum mechanics- using the potential state of "in one piece" and "backed-up DNA image of a person immediately before s/he morphs" to create the framework for the distribution and transformation of mass from some unknown source into the carbon-based lifeforms that we are.
D: andalites. they think we're morons. and we are. ergo, imho, they know science we could never explain. not without a few applicable doctorates on hand.
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What makes you think I'm lacking in doctorates applicable to Z-space theory? :P No, you're right, we might not be able to explain them, but that doesn't mean it's not fun to try ;D
One thing that bugs me, though, is bleeding. Several times in the series, the Animorphs mention that their morphs' DNA is stored in molecules in their bloodstream. Many times, their battles are quite bloody, sometimes to the point that they're bleeding to death. Why on Earth wouldn't one of those DNA-holding molecules slip out eventually? (And the same problem remains if you assume the DNA-holding molecules stay in the Animorphs' internal organs - the Animorphs, Rachel in particular, frequently have internal organs spilling out as a result of severe battle wounds.)
I actually think of Marco as the one who fights half his battles holding his intestines in, but that's a good point. The simplest answer (thank you Occam's Razor) would be that there're redundant copies of that information in their blood/organs. If you go by the theory in this thread: http://animorphsforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=4957.new (which is the one I'm now inclined to accept as my own personal theory on how the morphing technology works) the explanation changes so that while one of them is in morph, all the information about their other morphs is actually stored in Z-space, along with their original mass. If that's the case, it wouldn't matter how much blood and how many spleens grizzly-Rachel lost, she still couldn't lose her morphs.
By the way, ghost, you raise some great points, and I'm so glad to have you on the forum ^_^ You should go to the http://animorphsforum.com/forum/index.php?board=7.0 board and officially introduce yourself by creating an intro thread ;)
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What makes you think I'm lacking in doctorates applicable to Z-space theory? :P No, you're right, we might not be able to explain them, but that doesn't mean it's not fun to try ;D
Yeah, it's quite fun to take educated (or even un-educated) guesses at advanced technology. Eventually, it might even be possible to take these guesses and turn them into something real. (I know, it's not likely to happen, but people said the same thing about flight, putting people on the moon, etc. A lot of IT guys, in particular, have said things that came back to bite them 10 or 20 years down the road)
One thing that bugs me, though, is bleeding. Several times in the series, the Animorphs mention that their morphs' DNA is stored in molecules in their bloodstream. Many times, their battles are quite bloody, sometimes to the point that they're bleeding to death. Why on Earth wouldn't one of those DNA-holding molecules slip out eventually? (And the same problem remains if you assume the DNA-holding molecules stay in the Animorphs' internal organs - the Animorphs, Rachel in particular, frequently have internal organs spilling out as a result of severe battle wounds.)
I actually think of Marco as the one who fights half his battles holding his intestines in, but that's a good point. The simplest answer (thank you Occam's Razor) would be that there're redundant copies of that information in their blood/organs.
I have to disagree. While the probability of them retaining morphs despite blood loss directly increases with the number of redundant copies, there's still a decent chance of losing those redundant copies. Hmm, looks like a variation of Murphy's Law could be applicable here: "No matter how many backups you have, your data will be lost eventually, generally at the worst possible time."
At some point, of course, the probability of losing the redundant copies becomes almost infinitesimal, but I'm paranoid anyway. :P
If you go by the theory in this thread: http://animorphsforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=4957.new (which is the one I'm now inclined to accept as my own personal theory on how the morphing technology works) the explanation changes so that while one of them is in morph, all the information about their other morphs is actually stored in Z-space, along with their original mass. If that's the case, it wouldn't matter how much blood and how many spleens grizzly-Rachel lost, she still couldn't lose her morphs.
I like that theory, I think. It explains a heck of a lot. It doesn't explain everything, though, so I'll drop by that thread later. Prepare for brain explosions. >:D
By the way, ghost, you raise some great points, and I'm so glad to have you on the forum ^_^ You should go to the http://animorphsforum.com/forum/index.php?board=7.0 board and officially introduce yourself by creating an intro thread ;)
Thanks for the welcome & the karma! This looks like a great forum, and I'm looking forward to a long & pleasant stay with you guys.
I won't do an intro thread yet, as my real life is busy, but I'll do one soon.
Cheers!
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yeah, yeah... you guys and bantering for the sake of bantering. i like simple, clean answers. loopholes aren't my imagination's personal playground. i'm just here for the post count. :P toemaytoes, toemahtoes.
I actually think of Marco as the one who fights half his battles holding his intestines in, but that's a good point. The simplest answer (thank you Occam's Razor) would be that there're redundant copies of that information in their blood/organs.
I have to disagree. While the probability of them retaining morphs despite blood loss directly increases with the number of redundant copies, there's still a decent chance of losing those redundant copies. Hmm, looks like a variation of Murphy's Law could be applicable here: "No matter how many backups you have, your data will be lost eventually, generally at the worst possible time."
At some point, of course, the probability of losing the redundant copies becomes almost infinitesimal, but I'm paranoid anyway. :P
hmmm.... WHAT IF.
since mass is apparently stored in Z-space, why can't all of the information about your "DNA copies" (or your other acquired morphs) be stored there as well? Or in a similarly "linked to everywhere in space" location as a sort of intergalactic server to which you become connected the instant you touch an escafil device? so, once you "acquire" an animal, you send the DNA information on that morph to a "server" that also manages and regulates the mass you end up getting when you morph that animal? as a specific user, you only have access to your "user profile", including those morphs tied to your DNA. maybe the DNA of these animals is "swimming in your bloodstream" (ell-oh-ell) at all times (a byproduct of the acquisition-morph process, which i theorize a little differently), but the data regarding how that DNA is "used and structured" (requiring more explanation, enter laziness here) is elsewhere and can't be lost.
.....=_____=
If you go by the theory in this thread: http://animorphsforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=4957.new (which is the one I'm now inclined to accept as my own personal theory on how the morphing technology works) the explanation changes so that while one of them is in morph, all the information about their other morphs is actually stored in Z-space, along with their original mass. If that's the case, it wouldn't matter how much blood and how many spleens grizzly-Rachel lost, she still couldn't lose her morphs.
I like that theory, I think. It explains a heck of a lot. It doesn't explain everything, though, so I'll drop by that thread later. Prepare for brain explosions. >:D
this thread made me giggle; the (imhhhhho) absurdity of it all had something to do with it. Dx
also: laziness ftw. i'm not going to check, and i forget if this thread's also covered morphing clothes... as well as artistic morphing stuff (getting to the Ax book with Aloth et al, where that chick andalite Estrid can morph an entire set of clothes with shoes.... that has nothing to do with DNA but more with chemical compounds and, uhh... how on earth do you acquire clothes?).... but yeah. has someone addressed this?
edit: i checked. no one's addressed this. someone tell me how clothes fit into the mix.
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That's in the Escafil Device thread :P
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yeah, yeah... you guys and bantering for the sake of bantering. i like simple, clean answers. loopholes aren't my imagination's personal playground. i'm just here for the post count. :P toemaytoes, toemahtoes.
lol
Loopholes are my imagination's personal playground. I've been bitten by too many loopholes in the past, so I've gotten fairly good at finding them. Makes for some interesting discussions, too.
hmmm.... WHAT IF.
since mass is apparently stored in Z-space, why can't all of the information about your "DNA copies" (or your other acquired morphs) be stored there as well? Or in a similarly "linked to everywhere in space" location as a sort of intergalactic server to which you become connected the instant you touch an escafil device? so, once you "acquire" an animal, you send the DNA information on that morph to a "server" that also manages and regulates the mass you end up getting when you morph that animal? as a specific user, you only have access to your "user profile", including those morphs tied to your DNA. maybe the DNA of these animals is "swimming in your bloodstream" (ell-oh-ell) at all times (a byproduct of the acquisition-morph process, which i theorize a little differently), but the data regarding how that DNA is "used and structured" (requiring more explanation, enter laziness here) is elsewhere and can't be lost.
Wouldn't that do away with the morphing clock, though?
There are two possibilities here. #1, "active server": the "server" uses energy, which means it'll eventually run out and nobody will be able to access their morphs' DNA anymore. Morphing over. #2, "passive server": the "server" never uses any energy, so there's no need to worry about how long you spend in morph. Unless...... what if there was a happy mix? An "active/passive server", which would draw energy from the host? That would explain why morphing tires the host. Come to think of it, though, that still doesn't explain the morphing clock. nvm, I punched a hole in my own ponderings.
this thread made me giggle; the (imhhhhho) absurdity of it all had something to do with it. Dx
Absurdity?
I really think there's some value there, to be honest. I'm probably going way too far ahead, but I also think this might eventually turn into real morphing tech.
also: laziness ftw. i'm not going to check, and i forget if this thread's also covered morphing clothes... as well as artistic morphing stuff (getting to the Ax book with Aloth et al, where that chick andalite Estrid can morph an entire set of clothes with shoes.... that has nothing to do with DNA but more with chemical compounds and, uhh... how on earth do you acquire clothes?).... but yeah. has someone addressed this?
edit: i checked. no one's addressed this. someone tell me how clothes fit into the mix.
Yes, it's been addressed.
http://animorphsforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=4957.msg387064#msg387064 (http://animorphsforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=4957.msg387064#msg387064)
http://animorphsforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=4957.msg387223#msg387223 (http://animorphsforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=4957.msg387223#msg387223)
http://animorphsforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=4957.msg385699#msg385699 (http://animorphsforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=4957.msg385699#msg385699)
http://animorphsforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=4957.msg385730#msg385730 (http://animorphsforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=4957.msg385730#msg385730)
We should really take this to the Escafil Device thread, since we're now totally off-topic in this one.
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that's why i said it. because it's true. D:
i read minds, you see. ...or it was ridiculously obvious. you guys are predictable? O____o?
everyone gets bitten by loopholes. my solution is not to limit myself to playing by the rules of the ones who establish the loopholes, but to use the bigger picture as a source of alternatives to cover my ass.
anyhoo, i've already covered the "off-topic" thing, but that's apparently not stopping us. so here i am, still posting off-topic things.
about the morphing clock: you and i are speaking of different things. by which i mean to say, you and i relate the morphing clock and what i envision as a "server" in different ways and, in speaking of it, are totally missing each other, i think. pretty much, whatever it is that bridges the interdimensional gap between z-space, people, and mass (and i don't think it's "nanites"- what a security mess...), the thing that forces a human two-hour (convenient, eh? earth time, exactly two hours?) time limit isn't related to a server expiring. who knows what kind of energy is inherent in z-space mass? (e=mc^2?) so maybe your server uses energy... but also produces energy for itself as a byproduct of the morphing process.
also, no one's really discussing the logistics and energy required to convert z-space mass into people mass. O____o it has to be ENORMOUS. little neutrons, photons, new bonds, broken bonds... complete chemical makeup changed. and what the heck kind of mass IS z-space anyway? it's a completely different dimension! we're glossing over this, imho... and, well, none of us are biochemists, so i can see why. but i personally find it to be more probable to believe that the mass isn't coming from z-space, but from some random planet or moon or sun, etc., that the andalites have tied this system to.
lol.... so i am completely disagreeing with those posts you sent me (btw, i meant "covered in this thread", but i suppose i ought to have clarified for someone's sake). though... i am too lazy to invent plausible excuses for them. xD so who knows? maybe it all works and we have our answers already. we should just... launch into mass commercial production! let's do it!
....i stick by "absurd". in a nice way, however. it's not intended to be demeaning or belittling, but i'm not going to pretend to be patronizing, either. i just don't agree.
this won't become reality for a minimum of 100 years... and i'm leaning toward 500, if anyone ever finds any practical use for this technology ever.
let's say you manage to convince someone that normal disguises aren't doing the trick- because clearly, the CIA is just doing a terrible job at infiltrating everywhere. and that high-tech cameras from 100 years in the future won't be nearly as good at infiltration as near-deaf, near-blind flies and that the technology from the movie "avatar" won't automatically make morphing technology obsolete by putting a "killable" copy of a person out there in the field, rather than risking a for reals human life.
first, funding is an issue. who can you convince of the above that will have the money to launch this program?
second, the research, testing, implementation, and maintanence of the program you're proposing would have to be regulated stringently in america (so you're looking at resources from another country, and we all know that the economy everywhere right now is crap)... and then america would find out and want to get their hands on everything and so you're back to "regulations" and/or international economic standoffs. because america strong-arms everyone.
so... that would take forEVER. and third, advancing this technology is predicated on human experimentation, which, believe it or not, the government is not going to condone without some sort of successful 'animal' experimentation... and, well, buffa-human to the contrary, i don't think those experiments are going to work without forcing us to redraw the lines of morality in some way. period.
and not only the above (and others), but what credible scientist in 100 years is going to have learned anything from the suggestions from a bunch of nerds in an obscure forum dedicated to children's books? these topics are for fun... not meant to be taken seriously. it's simply improbable to assume (but not entirely illogical to hope) that these threads are for anything more than passing entertainment purposes. :P
so i giggle. for me, that's that.
((oh, yeah. i forgot. we also have to get busy discovering z-space and faster-than-light space travel. add another 100+ years to that one, assuming that "z-space" actually exists.))
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Guys, I'm responding to this in http://animorphsforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=4957.60, since we are kind of really off topic here.
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i called dibs on that
obvious fact.
D:
like, two weeks ago.
you responded.
with: "so?" (to paraphrase)
also, you can't make me move. :P
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Back then, it was only a little off-topic :P
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D: your response implied going anywhere with the topic, as long as new ideas were discussed.
...did i mention the post count thing?
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My response was that trains of thought should not be cut off simply because they stray from the original post. You've no idea how much it bugs me when a good talk gets rolling and someone comes in and goes "this isn't what we were talking about before. We're done." You lose a lot of good thoughts that way, especially when they're relatively related to the original topic. This scenario struck me as different, since we were sort of already running parallel discussions in these two threads, it made more sense to tack them together and not have to repeat thoughts. I'm all about conversational efficiency :P
And post count. Go us, holding each other up on this one ;D
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D:< yes, but if i go to this escafil device thread, i have to get caught up on everything they're saying there. and then i can't always just jump in randomly with my own points pulled from another topic; i have to wait and hope i get a chance to say something in context and without ignoring someone else.
and then sometimes, i just don't think the idea is good. so then i don't post. :P or a response requires more research than i think is necessary. and as you can tell from my other half-assed posts in this thread, i find that theorizing about something so very, very unlikely and completely fantastical at this point in human history is, well, for when i'm really, really, really bored. and for no other time.
but get back to me in a few hundred years, and i will certainly chime in once more. and remind everyone that we still have to discover z-space. <___< >___>
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I have no problem with you catching up on the Escafil thread and offering some new perspectives :P
You mentioned "assuming that 'z-space' actually exists"... I'm kind of inclined to tie that to Multiversial Theory... If you're taking the mass from another universe, it kinda of solves the problem you touched upon:
but i personally find it to be more probable to believe that the mass isn't coming from z-space, but from some random planet or moon or sun, etc., that the andalites have tied this system to.
I know it's a little bit of a cop-out, the whole "infinite possibilities exist infinitely throughout an infinite number of universes", but like you said, we aren't exactly biochemists of physicists here, so we'll use the best fitting theory that's the most readily available to us until something better appears :P
Also, the Escafil thread touches upon the idea of Nanites converting the mass. If the you think of the Nanites as being slightly larger than atoms, than you could also assume that they're using quarks as super-storage quantum computers, while at the same time breaking down skin cells, fat cells, muscle tissue, nutrients, etc, in order to convert them into atomic energy.
As for the 'discovering Zero-Space' thing, I've found this; http://www.scribd.com/doc/1251498/Implications-of-Zero-Space (http://www.scribd.com/doc/1251498/Implications-of-Zero-Space)
I haven't read up on it much (it was also posted in 2008) and it seems more to be the idea of one man, as opposed to a recognised developing theory. He starts off saying how it's based on an extrapolation of Einstein's formulae of E=mc2, but he also admits that his formulae does contradict the Quantum formulae.
Just thought I'd throw it out there.
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iow, the ellimist did it?
lol. ;)
and thanks for permitting me to join the escafil device thread conversation. O___o unfortunately, like i said, i have issues catching up with all of that.... junkstuff. mostly, i blame my incurable laziness. i think this'll be the last i post here. ^^
anyhoo, thanks for the article. :) my review doesn't reflect on you at all, but imhhhho, this guy is full of tripe. his inspirations are E=mc2 (not properly taking into account "movement"), the "Durac See" (the "Dirac sea") and Dr. Who's "Tartus", whatever that is. i mean sure, for someone who knows nothing about quantum physics, i don't mind reading what he has to say about the superposition of the string theory and the Dirac sea, but i'm of the humble and uninformed opinion that this guy IS an animorphs fan pretending to be an andalite explaining z-space. there is no serious research behind his postulations, and i daresay he knows it, too. he's also got a chip the size of montana on his shoulder over "them" and why "they" hate Dirac's "genius". (not true, btw, the guy received a nobel in 1933.)
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Kind of the impression I got.
Like I say, I haven't read it all, but when I first saw it, my initial thought was "An Animorphs fan is trying to do science, arent they..?"
It seems more like a fan-fic than anything else :P