Richard's Animorphs Forum
Animorphs Section => Animorphs Forum Classic => Topic started by: wolfev on June 26, 2008, 12:05:06 AM
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Since Tobias has a human morph which will never age, and assuming he was no more than 13 at the time he acquired himself he is stuck as a 13 year old as Rachel progressively gets older. Plus, since Tobias is kinda smart, he is doomed to have a horrible death since birds don't die of old age, they have a type a type II life curve.
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the first part's easy. just become a human nothlit. If even as a nothlit he wouldn't age, then his hawk body shouldn't age either.
the second part I didn't quite get.
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Birds rate of death never changes. With humans, the older you get, the more likely you are to die. With birds, an equal number of old birds die to the number of younger birds. They just don't die of old age. So Tobias is either living forever or going to be killed by some predator. Also, when did Rachel start to come onto Tobias. Sometimes I think she treats him like her doll or something. She fell for the bullied kid Tobias, not the hunter call of the wild Tobias.
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really? I kinda find that hard to believe. I'll look it up first. Either way, Tobias just has to become a human nothlit. The only reason he stayed as a hawk was so he could fight in the war. And the reason he didn't change back after the war was because he didn't have anything or anyone to come back to.
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Trust me I used to work with an Ornithologist. She told me thats how it works.
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weird. Every site I go to says they have a lifespan of about 20 years...
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I never said they don't die. Thats just an average of how long it takes one to die of contracting a disease, starving to death etc. Let me put it this way, once a bird reaches adult hood, you can't tell if the bird is 1 year into adult hood or 100 years
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ok. you lost me there. you know what, forget it.
well I think it started at the first book, but she didn't fully realize it until she thought David killed him in #22.
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They liked each other way before that. Even in the first book, before the attack on the Yeerk Pool, Tobias was perched on Rachel's shoulder. And in book 3 when they think that the Animorphs are going to be trapped as fish in the truck ship, Tobias says something like "Rachel, I wanted to tell you..." and she says "I know."
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I already said they liked each other in book 1, but she didn't fully realize it until book 22:
I cared for Tobias. I don't think I even knew how much I cared till right then.
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Either way, Tobias just has to become a human nothlit.
But then Rachel and Tobias still can't work, since he still wouldn't age and she would....
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They liked each other way before that. Even in the first book, before the attack on the Yeerk Pool, Tobias was perched on Rachel's shoulder. And in book 3 when they think that the Animorphs are going to be trapped as fish in the truck ship, Tobias says something like "Rachel, I wanted to tell you..." and she says "I know."
It's even earlier than that. When Visser Three is murderising Elfangor, Rachel holds Tobias's hand.
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Either way, Tobias just has to become a human nothlit.
But then Rachel and Tobias still can't work, since he still wouldn't age and she would....
How do you know nothlits don't age? are you saying Elfangor didn't age when he became a human nothlit?
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Tobias would be stuck as a nothlit.
Plus, the truth is reverse of threadstarter's opinion.
They are the perfect match.
Rachel is Tobias's last remaining (not to mention desperate) cling to his humanity. That is why he didn't go with Ax. If Rachel was not to exist, Tobias would never want to be human. The only reason that Tobias wants to become a human nothlit after the war is because he now has someone to turn to.
Tobias is Rachel's last cling to the "light" inside her. Tobias was one of the only persons Rachel could turn on to when she needs to talk on about the actions of her "dark side".
Personally, i think that if Tobias died instead, Rachel would either go insane, or be a crazy war freak.
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A Human nothlit would age. He'd be a few years younger than her, but he would age. If you want definite proof that a nothlit can age, then read book 41. Tobias states that he morphs Ax and becomes an Andalite nothlit. Then he gets older and looks a lot like Elfangor.
There's no reason to believe nothlits don't age, so he could become a Human nothlit and age together with Rachel.
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While I do believe that they age, I don't think that book 41 is a good reference for anything really, because the whole thing is a dream/fake made up by the voice that Jake hears at the end.
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While I do believe that they age, I don't think that book 41 is a good reference for anything really, because the whole thing is a dream/fake made up by the voice that Jake hears at the end.
That is true. I figured someone would bring up that the whole thing was fake, but it's the clearest evidence that nothlits age.
Nowhere does it mention that arbron got older in Taxxon form, but then there's no evidence to believe they don't age.
I wonder if it mentiones anywhere in the Andalite Chronicles that Elfangor grew older with Loren.
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Tobias aged as a hawk! I'm sorry, but the idea that nothlits don't age is ridiculous. They are still biological beings and biological beings age.
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You misunderstood, I assumed Tobias would keep his hawkward form after the war or that it would go on for a while so that his only time as being human would be as a morphed human for two hours at a time that would not age.
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i always thought rachel and tobias wouldnt work ethier, but rachel seems like such a strong girl she would make it work.
i really do think nothlits age though
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You misunderstood, I assumed Tobias would keep his hawkward form after the war or that it would go on for a while so that his only time as being human would be as a morphed human for two hours at a time that would not age.
I was referring to the people who were saying that nothlits don't age. I don't agree with your reasons, but that's probably only because I see Tobias and Rachel as the definitive example of a good relationship, both love and support each other no matter what the circumstances.
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I'm pretty sure nothlits age. Mostly because of #41, but even then, there was never any refference to Elfangor not aging as a human in The Andalite Chronicles. And since he went through college, getting married, etc., SOMEONE would have noticed that he wasn't aging.
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Want to know what i think?
I think that it doestn't matter what's on the outside,
I think what really matters is wha's on the inside!
Tobias is still tobias, it's just that his body is a hawk
His heart and soul is still the same
And deep down inside is tobias.
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I never got the relationship between the two. i can see tobias liking her, and Rachel and Cassie were friends and opposites. But Cassie had emotions for others, and Tobias cared for others, but he lived in far too much self pity for me to ever see rachel with him.
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Well, it isn't a matter of personality.
Tobias is Rachel's last cling to her humanity as a woman. Without Tobias, Rachel would never want to have a sense of being a normal again (proof: book 33, the one after the starfish). If they all survive after the war, I doubt Rachel would join the military, considering Tobias.
Rachel is Tobias's desperate cling to his humanity. Without Rachel, Tobias would never want to be human again. This was made clear in the last book, where Tobias threw away whatever humanity was left in him after Rachel's death by living full time as hawk...
So, I guess, they are the perfect combination.
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i always thought rachel and tobias wouldnt work ethier, but rachel seems like such a strong girl she would make it work.
I don't know, I feel like even if Rachel had survived she wouldn't have been content with no war and fighting going on.....in some ways, sad as it was, I think she was better off dying in a blaze of glory, doing what she loved best....so I don't think they would necessarily have worked out even if both had lived. The war was too damaging and life-altering....in the beginning of #41 Jake notes that since being tortured Tobias was even more silent and withdrawn than before, for example. Physical survival is never a guarantee of a relationship survival....just look at Jake/Cassie! :(
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I was always against the whole Rachel x Tobias relationship. I think they both needed someone but it didn't necessarily have to be each other.
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It wasn't necessary.... in MM3 it was Mellissa who Tobias was paired to. Any case...
Tobias is Rachel's last cling to her humanity as both a woman and at the same time, her conscience. Without Tobias, Rachel would never want to have a sense of being a normal person again (proof: book 33, the one after the starfish). If they all survive after the war, I doubt Rachel would join the military, considering Tobias.
Rachel is Tobias's desperate cling to his humanity. Without Rachel, Tobias would never want to be human again. This was made clear in the last book, where Tobias threw away whatever humanity was left in him after Rachel's death by living full time as hawk...
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It wasn't necessary.... in MM3 it was Mellissa who Tobias was paired to. Any case...
Tobias is Rachel's last cling to her humanity as both a woman and at the same time, her conscience. Without Tobias, Rachel would never want to have a sense of being a normal person again (proof: book 33, the one after the starfish). If they all survive after the war, I doubt Rachel would join the military, considering Tobias.
Rachel is Tobias's desperate cling to his humanity. Without Rachel, Tobias would never want to be human again. This was made clear in the last book, where Tobias threw away whatever humanity was left in him after Rachel's death by living full time as hawk...
Tobias was paired with Melissa because Rachel never went to the construction site with them and wasn't in the group. It was an alternate reality anyway, I wouldn't take it into consideration when discussing their relationship.
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i'm not sure that alternate reality was good. apparently with all that change (enough to make hitler a sort of nice guy) the animorphs actually still exist.
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Yeah, you're probably right Escafil... thinking about it, Tobias's and Mellissa's personalities might be different from the "actual" Tobias and Mellisa. Meh... alternate realities are so confusing.... ???
Anyway, I think otherwise of the topic. Rachel and Tobias can NEVER fit with any other man/woman/hawk.
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Their personalities could very well be different in the alternate reality. We know Jake was different because he didn't care much for Cassie or Ax.
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They liked each other way before that. Even in the first book, before the attack on the Yeerk Pool, Tobias was perched on Rachel's shoulder. And in book 3 when they think that the Animorphs are going to be trapped as fish in the truck ship, Tobias says something like "Rachel, I wanted to tell you..." and she says "I know."
no that was cassie and jake and that was in book #4 where there in the sea and being chased by visser three in some terrible morph
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read book 3 again. tobias and rachel do say that.
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Yes, it is confirmed, Tobias and Rachel said that....
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I think Tobias was too stuck in his ways (pardon the pun) to make any real investments on our girl Rachel.
I didn't really get a feel of Tobias being really supportive and caring, in a way a boyfriend would be, of Rachel spiralling into the bloodthirsty final days. She comes back from the Nice/Mean Rachel experience thing and he reverts it back to something about him, right at the end. She was on the edge and needing support during the 'leadership' decisions she had to make when Jake was away and he never really backed her. In The Return she asks him what's going on and all and Tobias tells her everyone is scared of her kinda thing and simply goes away. WTF, man.
Was there any attempt on his part during the final big arc?
All I saw really, was him, genuinely loving her, but never doing anything about it.
Lesson learnt, he loses her in the final book...
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Nothlits age. If Tobias ever decided to live out a normal life with Rachel as a human, his human body would age. I'm sure that if Rachel survived, Tobias would become a human just for her.
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I think Tobias was too stuck in his ways (pardon the pun) to make any real investments on our girl Rachel.
I didn't really get a feel of Tobias being really supportive and caring, in a way a boyfriend would be, of Rachel spiralling into the bloodthirsty final days. She comes back from the Nice/Mean Rachel experience thing and he reverts it back to something about him, right at the end. She was on the edge and needing support during the 'leadership' decisions she had to make when Jake was away and he never really backed her. In The Return she asks him what's going on and all and Tobias tells her everyone is scared of her kinda thing and simply goes away. WTF, man.
Was there any attempt on his part during the final big arc?
All I saw really, was him, genuinely loving her, but never doing anything about it.
Lesson learnt, he loses her in the final book...
I think it was just bad writing on the part of the ghostwriters and bad planning on the part of the author.
Sorry guys, but romance wasn't the main focus of these books.
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I just thought of something!
The Ellimist--or was it the Drode?-- stated that Rachel and Jake were just random choices; happy accidents, if you will.
So what if Rachel hadn't been there that night?
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Lets just pretend that Tobias doesn't age, and is doomed to look 13 for the rest of his life: rachel dated him as a HAWK. I don't think she is going to care.
Plus, mentally he would be an adult. Whilst people MIGHT look down on the (in restaurants or whatever) you gotta remember that they are celebrities (in this alternate universe where she survives). EVERYONE knows who they are, and why they are dating.
Its got nothing to do with paedophilia. I think there is a condition that makes people look much younger than they are, but that doesn't mean they can't be treated as adults.
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The human-hawk-Andalite is dating a human female girl--who may, or may not (but deffinitely does) have mental issues.
Besides, it's a book, I'm sure it doesn't matter. If they genuinely thought that they were meant to be together, then who are we, the readers, to judge a girl and her desire to date out of her species?
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I honestly think Tobias and Rachel did work out.Sure they couldn't do...stuff like other kids their age(you know what I mean and I mean it in the nicest way) but they also had alot of time to get to know each other and have more trust then most couples could have in a life time.
Sure it would be bad that Tobias was a hawk and she was a human but they could really be a couple.And if Tobias ever needed/wanted to get closer with Rachel,he could always morph to human for two hours and give Rachel what she wanted as well as keeping his hawk self and body.
So in my mind they worked out their life/relationship as good as anybody could in that way.
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I honestly think Tobias and Rachel did work out.Sure they couldn't do...stuff like other kids their age
And why not? Tobias had a human morph, didn't he?
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morphs age when you're in it, right? like in 19 cassie's caterpillar turned butterfly, just wondering...