Richard's Animorphs Forum
Animorphs Section => Animorphs Forum Classic => Topic started by: Green armadillo ette on November 09, 2009, 10:02:53 PM
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I relized how non-existent Ax's life before Earth is. I mean yeah he told us a bit of it but not much. Also KAA never told us how Ax found out that Tobais was his nephew. If you have any ideas on how Ax found out or his history post it here.
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This is one of my favorite topics in fan fiction.
We do get that prologue in #8, but that's it.
He's a lot younger than Elfangor.
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i always imagined that tobias told ax about elfangor being his father.
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Yeah, basically all I can think of that we find out is his performance in school. I always found it kind of funny, though. :P You have these Andalites with superior technology and knowledge and what not... but the Animorphs ended up with the Andalite equivalent of the kid that always falls asleep in the back of the class.
Of course, he's still freakishly awesome.
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no offense but i think much is obvius.
well DERP I just mean that has some implications about his upbringing. For most of his life, ax was raised as an only child. For at least a part of his life, he thought he WAS an only child, etc.
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Good point.
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OH THERE'S MORE but I'm afraid Parker will come in here and yell at me for being off topic.
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I personally think KA did it on purpose. See Ax has the problem of being his brother's shadow. It bothers him sometimes but it seems to me he is also afraid of ruining his brother's image. Because of that he keeps most of his past out of topic. Now about the whole How did he find out about being related to Toibas. I'm sure KA didn't want to have it be just a small addition to another plot. Besides its their personal life. The books are more about their efforts to save the Yeerks than about their personal lives. Tobias and Aximili spent a lot of time together and got to know each other well and I'm sure he told him when he thought it was right. How he did it. I'm sure only Ax and he know. I like the fact that it was left to the imagination of the readers.
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I don't.
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It's a matter of opinion of course.
on the other hand nothing much is said about the rest of the Animorphs either.
their pasts are not explained much. we just relate to them more because we happen to be human.
We know some things about them but not much. About Aximili however we only know he went to school and dozed off in class. I might have missed other things but i can't remember at this moment
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in the first twenty books or so, there is at least one "oh hey I'm just chilling at home with my family angsting about whatever the problem-of-the-day is" chapter.
I think these chapters define a big part of the quality that sets the first half of the series apart from the second half.
you may think that the series was just about fighting the Yeerks, but I disagree. That may have been the plot of each book, but it certainly was not the only part, and certainly not the part I responded to the most. Stories are about character. Ax was pretty well-developed, but I definitely agree that he could have afforded a couple of more "This is me and my family in my scoop" flashbacks and "Tobias told me that my brother was his dad and made me sad/happy/confused" scenes than he was given.
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Don't forget the distractions in class... ;)
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in the first twenty books or so, there is at least one "oh hey I'm just chilling at home with my family angsting about whatever the problem-of-the-day is" chapter.
I think these chapters define a big part of the quality that sets the first half of the series apart from the second half.
you may think that the series was just about fighting the Yeerks, but I disagree. That may have been the plot of each book, but it certainly was not the only part, and certainly not the part I responded to the most. Stories are about character. Ax was pretty well-developed, but I definitely agree that he could have afforded a couple of more "This is me and my family in my scoop" flashbacks and "Tobias told me that my brother was his dad and made me sad/happy/confused" scenes than he was given.
Oh i agree with you there. The first books had much more background. I didn't mean it was only about fighting Yeerks i'm just saying if focuses more on it. I know it was more than that. but What we do see of the Animorphs life is what they are living at the moment they don't seem to have many flashbacks, not saying they didn't i think there are some flashbacks.
It would have been nice to know how Ax found out he was related to Tobias. Though I like the fact it was left to our imagination. I didn't say I wouldn't have liked to know how it exactly happened.
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well the "flashback" thing was more of a practicality because Ax's family wasn't exactly on Earth.
BUT AGAIN, I've seen that done in fic before, so who knows.
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yeah that would have been very nice and it would have also helped us see how normal Andalites lived back in the homeworld and all
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It would have been interesting to see flashbacks of Ax's life before Earth, but there most likely wouldn't have been a lot to say besides telling us about how Andalite civilians live (which we already know a bit about due to the Chronicles books).
Showing Tobias revealing the truth about Elfangor to the other Animorphs would have been interesting, but they couldn't really have done it in the same book because that would attract attention away from Tobias' problems. The only other POV they could have done it in is Ax's but his next POV was 5 books away and KA obviously wanted the others to know straight away.
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iirc no one even mentioned it until #31...it may have been #26 but I know it was a Jake book. And when he mentioned it, it was some no-big-deal thing like "and in some twisted way, Tobias and Ax are related" which, I'm sorry, it was not a no-big-deal thing.
Then again, I think there was a conscious decision made by the authors (I can't prove this I'm just speculating) not to get too overdramatic. And if you err on the side of under-dramatizing then you're going to miss opportunities. Just like I believe Tobias finding out that Elfangor was his father in the first place should have been a fantastic chase for the rights to play his hirac delest and not a boring scene with a one-off lawyer character who has no significance to the overall storyline.
But, on the same token, nothing ever strayed into soap-opera land despite there being some soap-opera plots, so I guess you've got to take what you can get you know?
ETAL OOPS IT WAS #26 MY BAD but I'm still convinced.
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Now about the whole How did he find out about being related to Toibas. I'm sure KA didn't want to have it be just a small addition to another plot. Besides its their personal life. The books are more about their efforts to save the Yeerks than about their personal lives. Tobias and Aximili spent a lot of time together and got to know each other well and I'm sure he told him when he thought it was right. How he did it. I'm sure only Ax and he know. I like the fact that it was left to the imagination of the readers.
Yes but this topic is all about imagination. This is to voice your opinion and ideas. It's not like everything said here will go down here as canon. Also, there may be different ideas for the same thing.
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Ax could've found it reassuring (ie my shrom is slightly Andalite and therefore not really a primitive human) or repulsive (my brother committed bestiality sort of thing).
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I relized how non-existent Ax's life before Earth is. I mean yeah he told us a bit of it but not much. Also KAA never told us how Ax found out that Tobais was his nephew. If you have any ideas on how Ax found out or his history post it here.
They explain it in the later books I think. What I know is that one of the andalites (Elfangor I think) came to Earth and fell in love with a human and lived a peaceful life but had to go back to the fight against the yeerks through time and 'sired' (lols, funny word) a child then that child through this complicated family tree thing turned out to be Tobias and that's how he is Elfangor's or Ax's cousin thingy. My memeory is a bit hazy coz I read the books ages ago :( but I'm rereading them now so yay me! :)
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I relized how non-existent Ax's life before Earth is. I mean yeah he told us a bit of it but not much. Also KAA never told us how Ax found out that Tobais was his nephew. If you have any ideas on how Ax found out or his history post it here.
They explain it in the later books I think. What I know is that one of the andalites (Elfangor I think) came to Earth and fell in love with a human and lived a peaceful life but had to go back to the fight against the yeerks through time and 'sired' (lols, funny word) a child then that child through this complicated family tree thing turned out to be Tobias and that's how he is Elfangor's or Ax's cousin thingy. My memeory is a bit hazy coz I read the books ages ago :( but I'm rereading them now so yay me! :)
That part we all know. :P It's how Ax FOUND OUT about it that KAA never tells us.
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That is one thing that seriously annoyed me about the later, ghostwritten books: no fun little intros! Even a dark intro would have been nice, just for a reflection on what was going on in the characters' personal lives, or revealing an interesting part of their history.
I was really peeved when KAA never gave us a Tobias-telling-Ax-about-Elfangor scene, or an Ax-and-Loren scene in the later books. Maybe she was keeping it for the readers' imaginations, but it really just comes across as laziness.
PS: Mods, I apologise, I think I may have double-posted this! I'm not sure if I should his the delete button or not! :( Sorry!
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GOD YES the only thing Ax ever said about Loren was like "my brother had chosen a worthy mate" or something and I was like "really? Ax, the Andalite fetishist has absolutely no problem that his heroic brother/role-model holed up with a human??? You wouldn't even talk to the gimpy Andalite!"
I kind of think it was laziness too :/ There were enough 130-page ghostwritten books that could have definitely benefitted from the extra 20 of character development.
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GOD YES the only thing Ax ever said about Loren was like "my brother had chosen a worthy mate" or something and I was like "really? Ax, the Andalite fetishist has absolutely no problem that his heroic brother/role-model holed up with a human??? You wouldn't even talk to the gimpy Andalite!"
Yeah, especially since she was blind...
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Loren was a plot device. that's the only way to explain it. she wasn't used as a real person. She was just a plot device to give them a reason to start using the escafil device on other Humans.
You would Think Ax would be more bothered by Loren, or that she would get some mention at the end at lead during Tobias' narration.
If they wanted to just use a plot device, why bring back an important character like that? It doesn't make sense.
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Loren was a plot device. that's the only way to explain it. she wasn't used as a real person. She was just a plot device to give them a reason to start using the escafil device on other Humans.
Which explains why even Tobias' relationship with her was pretty superficial...
I think she should have been more involved...
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Which explains why even Tobias' relationship with her was pretty superficial...
I think she should have been more involved...
I was hoping for a re-emergence of the sassy, take-no-crap Loren of TAC. Instead, we got a wimpy, barely-seen background character who had so much potential it wasn't even funny.
But then, so much of the final books was awfully under-developed. The blind girl who lived with Marco and his parents, for example. The fact that Marco had his mother back after so many years of fighting for her, and then he doesn't spend time with her? Even if he hugged her and burst into tears, it'd be something! >:(
And Tobias, an orphan for so many years, finally has a mother, and he barely sees her either!
I know they were fighting the Yeerks and everything, but geez! Talk about lazy writing!
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I agree with everything there. It's like they built something up and never did anything with it.
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I agree with everything there. It's like they built something up and never did anything with it.
It's a lot like The X Files in that way, sadly. All this potential and they never used it! >:(
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The same thing happened whenever they brought back characters from the Chronicles books. Aldrea was weirdly immature and submissive and lost all of her charm, Arbron lost every semblance of his sense
of humor and character. I kind of wince on this reread whenever that happens. It really is kind of sad, because no one's story felt over at the end of their books, but damn if I knew that was what we were going to get...
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I can understand if Arbron didn't crack jokes so many years after becoming a Taxxon nothlit. Not sure what happened with Aldrea.
It might be interesting to hear an exchange between Marco and old Arbron. Marco wouldn't know what to do with an Andalite whose humor comes mostly from trying to be funny, instead of like Ax where he just doesn't understand Human customs and such.
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See it wasn't even that he was hardened/traumatized by his life as a Taxxon. He just reverted to the standby arrogant/well-spoken Andalite, instead of showing the spunk and courage he showed right before Elfangor and Alloran left. Any Chronicles characters that showed up in the regular series were poor, straw dopplegangers. Including Visser Three.
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See it wasn't even that he was hardened/traumatized by his life as a Taxxon. He just reverted to the standby arrogant/well-spoken Andalite, instead of showing the spunk and courage he showed right before Elfangor and Alloran left. Any Chronicles characters that showed up in the regular series were poor, straw dopplegangers. Including Visser Three.
I really agree with that.
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GOD YES the only thing Ax ever said about Loren was like "my brother had chosen a worthy mate" or something and I was like "really? Ax, the Andalite fetishist has absolutely no problem that his heroic brother/role-model holed up with a human??? You wouldn't even talk to the gimpy Andalite!"
That is exactly what I mean! Exactly! ;D Ax can be such a racist (speciesist?) sometimes - like a lot of other stupid kids parroting supposed cultural ideals - yet he just accepted Elfangor's decision to run away from way to hook up with some blonde alien chick (who I think Ax also said was short) before the Ellimist dragged him away again? If he was that accpeting, why didn't he turn to Loren in book #50, when he was despairing as to what Elfangor would do? If she remembered something, anything, beyond that "flash of blue", the conversation might be worthy of his time. But even if she didn't, her spirit was still in tact, even if her memories weren't. The woman his brother abandoned the Andalites for may have brought him some comfort, you know? Just by being there.
Really, it was entirely OOC for our favourite little Andalite. The whole Elfangor-Loren-Tobias-Ax arc was sloppily handled, and it was such a wonderful and interesting idea. We never got a scene wherein Tobias told Ax and the others about Elfangor being his father, either, which I always thought was shockingly lazy writing. Would Ax accept it? Would he freak out? Would he embrace Tobias, crying "my nephew!"
Who knows? BECAUSE KAA NEVER WROTE IT. Ugh.
I kind of think it was laziness too :/ There were enough 130-page ghostwritten books that could have definitely benefitted from the extra 20 of character development.
Definatley. #54 is a prime example of this. 150 pages - that's it?! That's all we get as a wrap-up, after five years? Are you serious?! Where's our 400-page epic, damnit?! The least we should have gotten was a 190-pager like #1, just so the story could be told properly, and all the characters got their chance to shine, like they did in most of the MegaMorphs books.
They'd all almost become cardboard cutouts by the end of it.
The same thing happened whenever they brought back characters from the Chronicles books. Aldrea was weirdly immature and submissive and lost all of her charm, Arbron lost every semblance of his sense
of humor and character. I kind of wince on this reread whenever that happens. It really is kind of sad, because no one's story felt over at the end of their books, but damn if I knew that was what we were going to get...
This is an excellent point. The ghostwriters have a lot to answer for, here. But so do KAA and her editors for approving the release of books like #34 in the state they were in. Not only Aldrea, but Marco's awful pseudo-funny line about The Phantom Menace. Ugh - that a groaner! >:(
The tragedy was, KAA wrote #53, and she still stuffed it up. She had not one, but two Chronicles characters, on board - Loren and Arbron - and she still butchered them. Was Loren even mentioned in #53 or #54? It was like she was setting fire to her own work and legacy.
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I don't think Loren was mentioned after the rescue. She was only used as a plot point, and not an actual person. It's just wrong.
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I read 54 in one hour. The first Harry Potter book was longer than that. And to think 54 was the last of it's 50+ book series. The most popular book series right now, Harry Potter, didn't even have 1/8 as many books as Animorphs. And butt-kicking, rock throwing, Miss Independent, "If you move you die", battle chick Loren (try saying that three times fast). What the hell happend to her? And the OOCness Ax. One word. Awful. It's so bad it doesn't deserve anything more descriptive.
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I just kept telling myself it was all teh war that messed them up ....
but you are right T_T It's just wrong. teh OOCness and all that other stuff T_T
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I think us fans were cheated, too. You'd think we would have gotten a sneak peek into the Andalite Homeworld at last, as we should have seen what it was like for Ax finally getting back to his homeworld.
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I always found it interesting how fresh Aristh coud hack the Yeerks battle network. I think that was exgatterated.
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Who knows? Maybe Ax got bonus training because he was the brother of the Legendary Elfangor. Or that being his brother, Ax was expected to excel in tecnology. And maybe Ax was just plain talented. Some thing made each of the human Animorphs different, why not Ax?
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About the things they forgot in the books, like the conversation between Ax and Tobias about Elfangor being Tobias' father and Loren being Tobias' mother, and all that kind of stuff... You can write fanfictions ^^
I kind of tried when I wrote my fanfiction, to explain why they surrendered so quickly at the end, what happened to the Yeerks after the war, etc. Just a little, but I didn't like some holes in the books either. Well, my fanfiction is in French, so...
But you can do something like that ^^
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About the things they forgot in the books, like the conversation between Ax and Tobias about Elfangor being Tobias' father and Loren being Tobias' mother, and all that kind of stuff... You can write fanfictions ^^
I kind of tried when I wrote my fanfiction, to explain why they surrendered so quickly at the end, what happened to the Yeerks after the war, etc. Just a little, but I didn't like some holes in the books either. Well, my fanfiction is in French, so...
But you can do something like that ^^
Yes but fanfictions are... different. We can write fanfictions for everything, what we want is the author's text.
I got so annoyed at the last book partly because of how Ax was not used enough. He got to speak for one (or two?) chapters and then die. He was so botched... (but yeah, that's the last book's problems, we have a super huge thread about that already).
I would have wanted to read the scene were Tobias tells everybody he is Elfangor's son... I can imagine them, of course, but I wanted to read them as they would have been written by KAA (or one of her ghostwriters...pfft).
At least we know that that one happened at some point.
I would have wanted a scene in which Loren would have asked Ax about Elfangor... I mean, it's not everyday that you learn that you had a kid with a blue alien !
(and that scene, I'm not sure that it even happened... I didn't read the last books very deeply because they were in english and my english was pretty bad at the time I tried to read them...)
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Nah, see, the final arc, where all the Animorphs' parents were getting involved and you had an extremely tense situation; that would have been the perfect time to develop all of the characters (not just Ax), but since there was a different writer ever book, it never really got off the ground.
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About the things they forgot in the books, like the conversation between Ax and Tobias about Elfangor being Tobias' father and Loren being Tobias' mother, and all that kind of stuff... You can write fanfictions ^^
I kind of tried when I wrote my fanfiction, to explain why they surrendered so quickly at the end, what happened to the Yeerks after the war, etc. Just a little, but I didn't like some holes in the books either. Well, my fanfiction is in French, so...
But you can do something like that ^^
Yes I can but I thought it would be nice for everyone if I did a thrend on it rather than write a fanfic that may get lost in the world of animorph fanfiction. Then eveyone can add their own voice to it.
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Sorry for posting so long in a while, but there's an excellent fanfiction writer who addresses BOTH these issues (how he found out about Elfangor, and his life before the Animorphs), her name is L'Angel and they are explored at length in The Liberation Chronicles and um... I forget the name of the second one. :-]
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I don't think Loren was mentioned after the rescue. She was only used as a plot point, and not an actual person. It's just wrong.
After the rescue, here's what Loren gets:
In #50, Cassie mentions her sitting with Tobias, and they seem to be "in their own world." That is the extent of the relationship between Tobias and his long lost mother after he rescues her, gives her back her sight, and she risks her life for him. FAIL.
In #52, Ax says he thinks Elfangor married "a very brave woman". After the pretending-we're-lost-campers scene, she disappears forever, and apparently Tobias can't be bothered with her after the war.
EPIC FAIL.
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In #52, Ax says he thinks Elfangor married "a very brave woman". After the pretending-we're-lost-campers scene, she disappears forever, and apparently Tobias can't be bothered with her after the war.
I know! It was just one of many loose ends that bothered me... The Chee, The Nartec, How the families of all the Animorphs are holding up after the war. So much was just left out of the series it annoyed me to no end
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I personally think she was sick of writing the books by the end. She'd moved on and wanted to work on her other stories, so she did a "hurry up and finish" ending for Animorphs.
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I'd agree, but it feels to me like she lost interest after the David trilogy. Maybe started to lose interest before. Think about it; after the trilogy, you have an obligatory-feeling "Tobias finds out about Elfangor" book, a Helmacron book (not centered around Yeerks), a ghostwritten book, a Howler book (again, ignoring the Yeerks), and then the rest of the series is ghostwritten except for "good Rachel bad Rachel" and the final two books. And the Megamorphs and Chronicles, I suppose, but take into account that none of them except for MM1 actually deal with the Animorphs fighting the Yeerks in the actual war, and it really does feel like Katherine and Michael were just getting bored with the whole concept of the series.
I feel off topic now...
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I think KA encourages fanfiction to fill in those gaps, though :)