Richard's Animorphs Forum
Animorphs Section => Animorphs Forum Classic => Topic started by: Darth Revan on September 15, 2009, 12:22:51 PM
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This is a discussion thread on the way that Visser 3 fed on Kadrona rays without Alloran (Visser 3's host) morphing or escaping.
It's never explained just HOW he does it. The official answer, is that two Hork-Bajir guard him, but there are so many holes in that explanation.
What do you think?
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Actually, Hork-Bajirs seem fine during the main Animorphs storyline because I always got the feeling Alloran was kind of a broken soul at that point and wouldn't put up much of a resistance. Early on in his infestation though, they probably had a hell of a time keeping him sedated.
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Yeah. Besides the ramonite box or bio stasis theory, one has to remember he's been through decades of mind rape.
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Wasn't there some kind of device? I'm thinking of when they found Visser One on Earth and she was all alone with a portable Yeerk Pool, wasn't there something she used?
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That was for a human. Humans don't have tails to slit their own throats, or the morphing ability to slip out of the restraints.
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as i mentioned in the other thread, visser 3 ate a little bit of oatmeal. if you recall, in several books, the animorphs say things like "wow we were so busy checking if she was sneaking away every 3 days that we didnt notice the whole 2 hours thing" when checking on tobias's "cousin" or when visser 3 morphed the government official because it was too difficult getting a kandrona generator in there.
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I highly doubt that. The oatmeal effect doesn't depend on how much is ingested. Alloran would be able to break out more often if V3 did eat any.
Also, they have portable Kandrona's in breifcases.
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Also, they have portable Kandrona's in breifcases.
well yes, but thats something any controller would be able to use. it was a KASU, but the oatmeal thing is just how i like to justify it. also, given that crazy controllers kept begging for more oatmeal, i think amount did matter.
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No, I mean it doesn't take much to get them hooked. It's like hard drugs, only a little bit is needed to get you hooked.
They constantly wanted more, because they were hooked on the stuff.
Not just ANY controller was given a portable Kandrona. Only high profile, high ranked Yeerks got to use portable Kandronas. Portable Kandronas weren't like cell phones. They were special.
It wasn't a KASU.
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No, I mean it doesn't take much to get them hooked. It's like hard drugs, only a little bit is needed to get you hooked.
They constantly wanted more, because they were hooked on the stuff.
Not just ANY controller was given a portable Kandrona. Only high profile, high ranked Yeerks got to use portable Kandronas. Portable Kandronas weren't like cell phones. They were special.
It wasn't a KASU.
but wouldnt it have made more sense for visser 3 to have given the portable kandrona to another controller, maybe a high ranking one, but more importantly a human one who wouldnt need to demorph every two hours and would have more experience with humans? they very definitely played it like he didnt need it.
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This entire series Visser 3 has operated on the "If you want something done right, you do it yourself." when it comes to the Animorphs. Why would that change when he could find the spawn of his bitter rival Elfangor is in his grasp?
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I reckon Bio-stasis, Ramonite box, sedation would be the way to go.
No way a portable kandrona or 6 hork-bajir could prevent Alloran from commiting Seppuku or morphing to escape.
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lol. what if they just put alloran into the pool with Visser Threee? like a giant pool specifically for Visser Three? haha
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Hahaha, yeah, submerged him in a cage so he couldn't escape.
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I don't really know Alloran's character that well, but here's the only explanation I can think of that makes sense with the Hork-Bajir guard.
Maybe Alloran wants to live so badly that he won't even try escaping and risk being killed? Or he just values the two hours of non-infestation every three days so he doesn't want to escape, fail, and have to give it up by being rendered unconscious every time after when Visser 3 feeds.
Since Visser 3 is a Yeerk, he knows Alloran's thoughts so he knows Alloran won't try to escape. In that case Visser 3 wouldn't bother sedating Alloran or using a Ramonite box or portable Kandrona. The Hork-Bajir are just in case.
The only thing that would counter that theory is when Alloran asks Ax to kill him in Book 9. Was that a KASU, or was the Hork-Bajir guard as opposed to some other method the KASU?
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No. There is no way any andalite would revere life over infestation. Infestation is a fate worse than death. Alloran would rather kill himself by his own blade than stay infested.
You should read The Andalite Chronicles. You learn a lot about Alloran.
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the answer is....mind control.
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I reckon they paralyse him and put him in a box that prevents morphing
yeay, Alloran would rather die than be a controller. Andalites are very seppuku prone (except throat slittting rather than disembowlment)
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why do both? it's proven in #33 that paralysis stops morphing too...
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Better safe than sorry.
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Maybe there's a yeerk whose job is simply to control Alloran while Visser Three feeds? Like in an empty, solid walled room, a yeerk controls him. Everything is locked down, so if the yeerk tried to escape with Alloran's body, it would simply starve from lack Kandrona. When Visser Three is done feeding, he's brought in, and swaps hosts with the yeerk guarding the body. Alloran can't escape or hurt himself, Visser Three has time to feed, and the temporary Yeerk wouldn't try to escape with the host because it knows it will starve.
The only issue would be knowing parts of Visser Three's motives, but possibly that yeerk is kept in isolation or Visser Three has it killed each time. We know he would do such things.
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Maybe there's a yeerk whose job is simply to control Alloran while Visser Three feeds? Like in an empty, solid walled room, a yeerk controls him. Everything is locked down, so if the yeerk tried to escape with Alloran's body, it would simply starve from lack Kandrona. When Visser Three is done feeding, he's brought in, and swaps hosts with the yeerk guarding the body. Alloran can't escape or hurt himself, Visser Three has time to feed, and the temporary Yeerk wouldn't try to escape with the host because it knows it will starve.
The only issue would be knowing parts of Visser Three's motives, but possibly that yeerk is kept in isolation or Visser Three has it killed each time. We know he would do such things.
That's a really good theory.
I'm thinking they stunned him.
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If another yeerk infested Alloran, he would gain some of V3s memories too. I don't think V3 would entrust Alloran to any other yeerk, low or high in rank. Besides, there's the same issues. When the door is opened and the guards come in to take the baby-sitter yeerk, what's to stop him from morphing or slashing with his tail to escape?
I think they probably have a custom-made restraint that "hog-ties" them and holds their tail. They're then stunned by a low voltage Dracon Beam.
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I thought it was stated in the later books Alloran was shackled with his head close to the personal pool of Esplin 9466. He also probably was guarded by loyal Yeerks. By the end of the book series, Alloran was so broken he didn't know what it was like to feel free so once broke like that, he had no real need to escape since he wouldn't have gotten far anyhow.
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Sure but don't you think he would at least to Hara Kiri?
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Probably a combination of thigns. Being so mentally broken that fear of failure, and low chance of coming up with a good plan without V3 knowing would reduce motivation. Being heavily guarded, and in a position like Eva where V3 would know if something was going on while in the pool, would make the chance of ecape abysmal.
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I read a fanfic where a force field restrained him. The Yeerks have used force fields before.
The force field could be used to enclose a certain space, so that he couldn't morph anything larger than his normal Andalite body ... and none of his morphs would help him get past a force field anyway.
Although he could nothlitize himself as something small, I guess, so that wouldn't work.
I also seem to remember reading somewhere that Alloran was shackled and chained up with a sheath over his tail blade ... maybe in one of the later books?
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Although he could nothlitize himself as something small, I guess, so that wouldn't work.
wow thats a really good point, they can focus on keeping him from escaping all they want but theres really only one way to prevent him from morphing. and if hes willing to die, as most andalites and humans are, then he would def be willing to become a nothlit
so they must have stunned him, its really the only thing they could do
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Although ... Maybe Alloran doesn't have any small morphs. Visser Three probably never acquires any. (How big is a djabala, anyway?) And if he were restrained with a force field, that would keep any insects out that he could otherwise acquire.
But stunning him whenever he tried to morph would work just as well. Although he might overuse that and make Visser Three deal with the inconvenience of a stunned host every time he was done feeding. So maybe not just as well.
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in fact, visser 3 does have a small morph. he morphed one in #38. don't remember exactly what it was. I only remembered a quote from ax "the visser finally learned bigger is not always better" or something like that.
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I don't think they specifically mentioned what it was, morf.
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I didn't say they mentioned what it was, but I'm almost positive they said it was small...
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OK but what about the big morphs then, why can't he use one of them and kill everyone around him. (knowing V3 he wants strong morphs and then he maybe have something that can break through force fields... or maybe not, but it would have been a very funny mistake of him)
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yeah, could Alloran morph something big enough to make himself implode?
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in fact, visser 3 does have a small morph. he morphed one in #38. don't remember exactly what it was. I only remembered a quote from ax "the visser finally learned bigger is not always better" or something like that.
That was in 38? I thought it was in one of the later books ... but ok. Yeah, it doesn't say what it was, just that it was something small.
I thought of something: Stunning Alloran every time he tries to morph would work. He wouldn't get himself stunned for the sake of inconveniencing Visser Three, at least not very often, for the simple reason that Visser Three's feeding time is the only time when Alloran gets his brain all to himself and he wouldn't want to spend that time unconscious.
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Yeah, we thought of that on page one.
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Well, I gotta figure that stunning would be the easiest, but if we want to talk the inconvenience of Visser Three (which probably wasn't a huge deal to him anyway), I gotta go with some of the previous statements and say bio-stasis. I mean, we saw it in 16; it still takes a second or two for someone who was in bio-stasis to snap out of it, but no long term side effects. Plus, even dracons on low power still singe and burn a bit, making that kind of stunning something the Visser would surely get annoyed with. Anywho, that's just my two cents.
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He may burn, but a quick morph would cure that. :)
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He may burn, but a quick morph would cure that. :)
As well as killing a couple of subordinates . . . impractical? Yes, I know. But this is the same guy who thought that you could make a magic potion to do away with free will . . .
To be honest, I think the bio-stasis thing is likely, though stunning likely as well. Perhaps they employed both? Interchangably I mean -- one day use stunning, the next feeding time use bio-stasis?
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Would it be possible, do you think, for the yeerk to soak up liquid and Kandrona with part of his body while maintaining control of the host's mind with the other parts of his body? They do take time to leave the body, and sever connections with the host's brain...
I mean, what if V3 has his own personal device that allows him to soak up Kandrona and maintain control of Alloran at the same time? I mean, why wouldn't that be doable?
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I have wondered if it would be plausible for the Yeerks to do that.
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Nah, were it possible, they'd have mentioned it.
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Thanks for crushing our hopes and dreams, Parker...
j/k
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Can the yeerk go out even if the host is unconscious? And... is it even worth thinking about that they just beat him to make him pass out for a while...
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In the last book they knock Alloran out, and order V3 to get out of his head, or they'll cut him out. He gets out.
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What is bio-stasis? What is Ramonite?
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Bio-stasis is a mechanism that freezes the target in suspended animation. It was first used in book 16 on Ax and Rachel.
Ramonite is a metal that can stretch and contract, or turn transparent, on command. It was first seen as part of the Blade Ship in book 5, and a box was made of it in MM 1.
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Could a yeerk with a morph capable host, suffer kandrona starvation in a bio-stasis or ramonite box?
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Could a yeerk with a morph capable host, suffer kandrona starvation in a bio-stasis or ramonite box?
That's a good question. O.o I know a yeerk can survive on its own in bio-stasis (or whatever Elfangor does to Loren's Yeerk in AC. It's at least similar to that)... I guess it might depend on how that sort of thing would affect it? Like, when the host was in bio-stasis, is the yeerk in bio-stasis, too? Or is it like when the host is unconcious (see Visser)--the host's out, but the yeerk's still concious, just not able to do anything.
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I'm pretty sure Yeerks can absorb Kandrona rays without actually swimming in a pool; the pool is just the easiest/most efficient/traditional method of doing it, because it allows thousands of Yeerks to feed off one generator. In #41 (The Familiar) they talk about making a Kandrona moon which would essentially mean that Yeerks don't have to go to the pool anymore, and in another one the Animorphs disrupted a plan to mass produce portable Kandronas that would have made the Pool obsolete. I'm betting Visser Three has a portable Kandrona that he uses to feed while within Alloran's body. Staying in Alloran is pretty much the only way outside of bio-stasis or another Yeerk "holding" him that prevents Alloran from killing himself/becoming a nothlit (which he is willing to do; when they attacked V3 early on and forced the Yeerk out, Alloran tried to kill himself but was too weak and Ax wouldn't do it). But the portable Kandrona I believe is the best and most likely option.
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Turning the moon into a Kandrona emitter was used to turn all bodies of water into Yeerk pools, not to allow Yeerks to stay in their hosts forever. The Yeerk would still have to leave the host and swim in a pool, but it didn't have to be the main Yeerk pool.
And the Portable Kandronas were suitcases with a basin of "water" and a small Kandrona generator inside.
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don't forget that besides kandrona rays, yeerks also got nutrients from the pools.
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right, that's why i put "water" in quotations; 'cause it's not entirely water.
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Plus, if they could just absorb it straight from the Kandrona emitter, they wouldn't have needed the pool anyway... The emitter projected the rays... It was nowhere near the pool...
Along those lines, I have a feeling that the #41 thing was a KASU, because even on the Yeerk homeworld, where they do have a Kandrona-emitting sun, they still have to swim in the pool... :donno:
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Turning the moon into a Kandrona emitter was to turn all of the world's pools into Yeerk pools. It wasn't a KASU. The only screw up is the recent misinterpretation, based on a single post.
The goal wasn't to make controllers free of Yeerk pools, it was to free them of having to go to a centralized pool. They could use their own pool instead of having to go underground. They could take 4-day trips and not worry about starvation.
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Kind of makes me wonder why yeerks evolved into parasites in the first place. O.o I mean, they'd do just fine in the pools on their home world--they could soak up kandrona rays and nutrients all day. Why'd they leave the pools in the first place? It seemed like they'd already infested Gedds by the time the Andalites showed up, so that didn't have anything to do with the initial exodus, so to speak.
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Turning the moon into a Kandrona emitter was to turn all of the world's pools into Yeerk pools. It wasn't a KASU. The only screw up is the recent misinterpretation, based on a single post.
The goal wasn't to make controllers free of Yeerk pools, it was to free them of having to go to a centralized pool. They could use their own pool instead of having to go underground. They could take 4-day trips and not worry about starvation.
Good point, Parker... I guess I should've done my research before posting... *shakes head*
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It's okay, I've posted before reading fully too.
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I believe I have figured this out. In Visser, Visser One says
I spoke to the holographic representation of the Council. Thirteen Yeerks in various host bodies: Nine Hork-Bajir, two Taxxons, and two whose host bodies were so concealed that I could not guess at their form. They were dressed in dark red robes, so dark that they were almost black. They stood, motionless, held in place, suspended by gravity-neutral fields, fed by a continuous refined current of Kandrona rays. [page 6]
which seems to me to clearly indicate that Yeerks can feed on Kandrona Rays while outside the pool. Whether Visser Three had access to these emitters is questionable, but it would certainly solve the problem and I imagine the Yeerk Empire could build one more for the one and only Andalite-Controller.
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Yeah, but wouldn't one of the 13 want to steal the Andalite host? Yeerks are like the Sith after all.
Also, when he was playing Tobias's Auntie, he had a portable Kandrona, how'd he stop Alloran from fleeing while using that?
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No, I mean it doesn't take much to get them hooked. It's like hard drugs, only a little bit is needed to get you hooked.
They constantly wanted more, because they were hooked on the stuff.
Not just ANY controller was given a portable Kandrona. Only high profile, high ranked Yeerks got to use portable Kandronas. Portable Kandronas weren't like cell phones. They were special.
It wasn't a KASU.
IIRC, Tom was a high ranking Controller. Why didn't he get a portable Kandrona generator during "The Conspiracy" when he had to leave town for 4 days for his host's great grandfather's funeral?