Richard's Animorphs Forum
Animorphs Section => Group Re-Reads => Animorphs Forum Classic => Past Re-Reads => Topic started by: Terenia on July 29, 2009, 11:05:22 AM
-
Summary
He's the source of incredible destruction and evil throughout the galaxy. She's the leader of the Yeerk invasion of Earth...and Marco's Mother. This is their story.
Questions
1. What do you think about the dynamic between Visser's One and Three?
2. Edriss' initial opinions of Earth are quite interesting. For instance, she surmises that the most influential place on Earth is "El lay", among other things. What do you think of her initial opinions? Are they accurate? Or the result of cultural ignorance?
3. What do you think about Essam and Edriss' relationship? After all, Yeerks don't mate unless they are ready to die, and it is a union of three, not two. With this in mind, was their love for one another purely the result of their human hosts? Or something else?
4. What are your thoughts on Edriss' children?
5. This is the only time in the series where we see the Animorphs attack without knowing what planning led up to the attack firsthand. Any speculation (like why Cassie is in polar bear morph and not wolf, for instance?). Fanfic challenge: write the book that WOULD accompany this mission, if it existed.
6. What did you think about the conversation between Marco and Eva?
7. The Council pardon both Visser's, giving them a chance for redemption. Why do you think they did this? Do you think it was a smart move, politically speaking?
8. Overall opinions on the book? Favorite quotes, scenes, etc.
Next week: #36, The Mutation
-
I think the love may have been mostly due to the hosts, especially since Edriss feels soemthing for her Human children. Something no Yeerk normally would, since there is no parent-child relationship in the Yeerk world.
I'm surprised the Council pardoned either one of them, or that they eventually promote Visser Three. It doesn't seem like a very Yeerk thing to do, since most high ranking Yeerk officers don't do compassion.
I don't remember Marco talking to Eva, or why cassie was in polar bear morph. I don't remember the book very well.
-
I don't remember Cassie in polar bear either, hmm...
I do remember the conversation between Marco and Eva, though. Talk about heart-wrenching.
-
1. What do you think about the dynamic between Visser's One and Three?
Hahaha I love them. I love them so much. I love that they hate each other, and I love that the fact that they're trying to kill each other is just like an accepted part of Yeerk culture. I mean Visser Three gets owned by the end, but even during that part you can kind of tell everyone is thinking "hell I would have done it too..."
2. Edriss' initial opinions of Earth are quite interesting. For instance, she surmises that the most influential place on Earth is "El lay", among other things. What do you think of her initial opinions? Are they accurate? Or the result of cultural ignorance?
I thought it was a cute joke, but not much more than that. That's the problem with alien sci-fi, is that the aliens will never be as complex as human society. She had no reason to understand that media is only one facet of importance of humanity, and she just happened to focus on it, because it's really all she had access to. But come on, REAL aliens would probably realize what we put in our media does not necessarily represent what we are as a species.
3. What do you think about Essam and Edriss' relationship? After all, Yeerks don't mate unless they are ready to die, and it is a union of three, not two. With this in mind, was their love for one another purely the result of their human hosts? Or something else?
To be totally honest, this is what pissed me off about any Chronicles that came after TAC. They're too damn short. They're so dense and jam-packed, not only with lots of plot and characters, but with these awesome kinds of dilemmas that get glazed over for explosions and sound-effects. I think this is one of the most interesting dilemmas in the whole series, and we don't get much about the distinction between Yeerk and host. We know Allison finds Hildy (that's his name, right?) attractive, and we know Edriss misses Essam by the end, but besides that, HOW DID THIS UNION EVER HAPPEN? Who really loved who? Was Allison a consenting member of this marriage? Was Hildy? Or were the instincts the driving forces, and Essam and Edriss were kind of in the backseat? And we know Edriss is unwilling to kill the kid, but WOW I could have heard 50 more pages about that. UGH. Chop out the stupid, convoluted trial and GIVE ME THAT INSTEAD.
5. This is the only time in the series where we see the Animorphs attack without knowing what planning led up to the attack firsthand. Any speculation (like why Cassie is in polar bear morph and not wolf, for instance?). Fanfic challenge: write the book that WOULD accompany this mission, if it existed.
Haha that whole attack scene was kind of random. From what I recall, Tobias used Hork-Bajir morph too, right? That was sort of weird. I was actually kind of pissed when they showed up. I liked that the Chronicles books, except for the beginning and ending framing device, were entirely devoid of Animorph activity. So when they showed up I was like UGH can you just get this OVER with so we can get back to YEERK stuff?
6. What did you think about the conversation between Marco and Eva?
OH I READ THAT WRONG I thought it said "between Eva and Edriss" UGH NO I DIDN'T CARE THEY HAD ENOUGH ANGSTINESS I DIDN'T CARE I WANTED TO CUT OUT THAT WHOLE CHAPTER AND SPEND MORE TIME ON EDRISS/ESSAM, or maybe Edriss' apprenticeship to that councilman that questioned her, that would have been an interesting dynamic to explore too.
7. The Council pardon both Visser's, giving them a chance for redemption. Why do you think they did this? Do you think it was a smart move, politically speaking?
No. I don't think the Yeerks are very smart politically. Visser Three is a maniac and Visser One seems to care more about making him look bad than doing anything productive for the Empire. Of course any other high-ranking Yeerk we meet is just sycophantic and stupid, so idk, maybe these two really are the cream of the Yeerk crop.
8. Overall opinions on the book? Favorite quotes, scenes, etc.
I liked it, but again, I wish we could have just gotten a normal backstory rather than the trial. I would have liked to hear more about the Council, too, but I guess our narrator really couldn't tell us much more than she did. And I guess I'm a little upset about what the Anibase says about this book--that the reason V3 is on the cover is that it was supposed to be a joint book, between him and Edriss, and AppleGrant just got caught up in the Edriss storyline. It made a good story, but I would have loved to delve a little deeper into the V3 character, especially since he was so interesting in THBC and only got 1/3 (actually less) of that book.
-
2. Edriss' initial opinions of Earth are quite interesting. For instance, she surmises that the most influential place on Earth is "El lay", among other things. What do you think of her initial opinions? Are they accurate? Or the result of cultural ignorance?
I thought it was a cute joke, but not much more than that. That's the problem with alien sci-fi, is that the aliens will never be as complex as human society. She had no reason to understand that media is only one facet of importance of humanity, and she just happened to focus on it, because it's really all she had access to. But come on, REAL aliens would probably realize what we put in our media does not necessarily represent what we are as a species.
Actually, I think that Edriss' initial opinions are pretty accurate, considering how LITTLE time she has spent at this point involved with Earth. She had had only one host, an uneducated Arabic man, and only briefly. If you went to a completely alien world and all you had was a bunch of tv shows, you might get a slightly off impression too.
3. What do you think about Essam and Edriss' relationship? After all, Yeerks don't mate unless they are ready to die, and it is a union of three, not two. With this in mind, was their love for one another purely the result of their human hosts? Or something else?
To be totally honest, this is what pissed me off about any Chronicles that came after TAC. They're too damn short. They're so dense and jam-packed, not only with lots of plot and characters, but with these awesome kinds of dilemmas that get glazed over for explosions and sound-effects. I think this is one of the most interesting dilemmas in the whole series, and we don't get much about the distinction between Yeerk and host. We know Allison finds Hildy (that's his name, right?) attractive, and we know Edriss misses Essam by the end, but besides that, HOW DID THIS UNION EVER HAPPEN? Who really loved who? Was Allison a consenting member of this marriage? Was Hildy? Or were the instincts the driving forces, and Essam and Edriss were kind of in the backseat? And we know Edriss is unwilling to kill the kid, but WOW I could have heard 50 more pages about that. UGH. Chop out the stupid, convoluted trial and GIVE ME THAT INSTEAD.
Yeah, I agree. I would have LOVED to read more about that, although I did find the Council angle interesting. I just think the book overall could have been longer.
8. Overall opinions on the book? Favorite quotes, scenes, etc.
I liked it, but again, I wish we could have just gotten a normal backstory rather than the trial. I would have liked to hear more about the Council, too, but I guess our narrator really couldn't tell us much more than she did. And I guess I'm a little upset about what the Anibase says about this book--that the reason V3 is on the cover is that it was supposed to be a joint book, between him and Edriss, and AppleGrant just got caught up in the Edriss storyline. It made a good story, but I would have loved to delve a little deeper into the V3 character, especially since he was so interesting in THBC and only got 1/3 (actually less) of that book.
omg, yes. I would have LOVED to see more from V3's POV. I'd like to know what he's thinking since his actions are no longer representative of the Yeerk he was in HBC. He's gotten a bit crazy since then.
-
5. For me, one of the differences between KAA written book and the ghostwriters was how morphs were utilized. The ghostwriters tended to use the same morphs over and over again, especially for battle. KAA threw in a little more variety. For example, Marco used the wolf morph during the opening battle in #19. I liked that Cassie used the polar bear morph (and why shouldn't she use it?) because I thought the polar bear, elephant, and rhino morphs were really underused.
-
There's a flaw in this book though. Visser one says she was the first human controller and found the class 5 species. Visser three or the yeerk that infested Loren was the first human controller since Visser one says that she searched for Earth after Loren and Chapman showed up on the Taxxon home world. Also, if Visser three infested Chapman, shouldn't he have figured out that humans were a class five species? I really like how Visser one created the sharing though.
-
Yes, I concede that that is a bit of an inconsistency, but a possible explanation for Visser One's claim is because she may not known that Visser Three took a human host.
-
that inconsistency is covered, but not really well. Edriss mentions the report that Visser Three made about humans, but says that the Council ignored it out of "stupidity, not conspiracy," which is why she took it upon herself to go see what all the fuss was about here on good ol' Earth.
-
1. What do you think about the dynamic between Visser's One and Three? I think their rivalry is probably the thing that damaged the Yeerk's chances the most. But then, they're evil. You can never expect evil to act civilly.
2. Edriss' initial opinions of Earth are quite interesting. For instance, she surmises that the most influential place on Earth is "El lay", among other things. What do you think of her initial opinions? Are they accurate? Or the result of cultural ignorance? I expected an alien's first encounter of the human race to be like that. And like it or not, the media do shape our culture. Look how well Obama did in the presidential election.
3. What do you think about Essam and Edriss' relationship? After all, Yeerks don't mate unless they are ready to die, and it is a union of three, not two. With this in mind, was their love for one another purely the result of their human hosts? Or something else? I think Allison was actually trying to show Edriss what
love is like. I was kind of surprised Edriss had never experienced it.
4. What are your thoughts on Edriss' children?
I wish we had gotten to see them in another book. I hate that loose end.
5. This is the only time in the series where we see the Animorphs attack without knowing what planning led up to the attack firsthand. Any speculation (like why Cassie is in polar bear morph and not wolf, for instance?). Fanfic challenge: write the book that WOULD accompany this mission, if it existed.
I was actually surprised the plan worked. usually Marco plans things better
6. What did you think about the conversation between Marco and Eva?
I was amazed at how well Marco kept his cool.
7. The Council pardon both Visser's, giving them a chance for redemption. Why do you think they did this? Do you think it was a smart move, politically speaking? I think it was smart. She has made some progress with Earth.
-
I thought that both interactions with Marco were some of the best moments of the book, if not the entire series.
"Your mother loves you Marco."
"I know my mother loves me Yeerk, STFU."
It was perfect.
There was another spot of the book that I thought was particularly interesting and I actually didn't catch it the first time around. It was about Essam's first host - Mr. Lowenstein - and Edriss was contrasting his strength with the weakness of Jenny Lines. I actually thought all of the minor human characters they came in contact with were interesting: the uneducated soldier, the drug addict wannabe, the aging Holocaust survivor, and the intelligent and independent woman.
-
3) I think of all the things done and not done in Animorphs, the one that should have been done was simple Yeerk Chronicles.
I fail to understand Yeerk relations. I think it says something about host effects in that Hildy and Allison did come to love each other and that effected the Yeerks, but recall book 8, there was a yeerk p.o. that his sweetheart died, and who knows how the host relation was b/w those two. Simply don't know
And more or less in response to 7)
At the time of TAC there 40 some vissers in the empire. I for one am inclined to think that number probably didn't shrink b/w then and now, more likely it grew and so I rant:
With 40 plus leaders of the yeerk army, only these two were capable of handling the two big jobs?!
Granted they had distinguished them selves of course, but knowing some of the things they've done, these are really the only ones able to had Earth and the Anati set up? I can't believe that.
It was interesting to keep them alive and in those positions yeah, but I can't believe that it was there most practical option.
And I'm nothing if not practical ::)
-
I love this bit of powerful social commentary from the book:
And, once I had the seed money, several hundred million, I began to create The Sharing.
It would cater to one of the most fundamental human weaknesses: the need to belong. The fear of loneliness. The hunger to be special. The craving for an exaggerated importance.
I would make a haven for the weak, the inadequate, the fearful. I would wrap it up in all the bright packaging that humans love so much.
The Sharing would never be about weak people being led to submit to a stronger will, no, no, it would be about family, virtue, righteousness, brotherhood and sisterhood. I would offer people an identity. A place to go. I would give them a new vision of themselves as part of something larger, erasing their individuality.
I needed only one thing before I could go to the Empire, call the Council of Thirteen, and present them with my accomplished fact: I needed one human, just one, to submit voluntarily.
If I could show them one human who had surrendered his or her will and freedom, without threat of violence, I could convince the Empire to follow my path. The way of infiltration.
The first meeting of The Sharing took place on a Saturday. Thirty-five people attended.
I had done a tremendous job in a very short time. I had studied human history, supplementing what Allison Kim already knew. I studied every cult, every movement, every great, mesmerizing leader that had ever held sway over humans.
And by the time those thirty-five humans came into the rented hall, I had adorned the walls with symbols and flags and icons. All the visual nonsense that moves the susceptible human mind. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Scientology_Symbol_Logo.png)
They filed in, some in small groups, but most alone. They were stirred by the inspirational music. Flattered by the attention paid them by attendants I’d hired from a temp agency. Impressed by the expensively produced booklets we handed out. Awed by the pictures and symbols that draped the walls.
I spoke to them from the stage. Not as Allison Kim, of course, because all my links to Allison Kim would have to be concealed before my fellow Yeerks arrived.
I had carefully picked a human host for just this one purpose. His name was Lawrence Alter.
A real estate salesman. I changed his name to Lore David Altman. Three name combinations were popular then.
He was a charismatic man with a loud, deep voice and an abundance of hair. Just the sort of face that humans respond to, though his brain was a wasteland compared to Allison’s. (http://www.lronhubbard.org/)
Allison Kim had been left handcuffed to a radiator in a hotel room, awaiting my return.
Later, after it was over, I found I couldn’t recall exactly what I’d said to this first meeting of The Sharing, not the specific words. A lot of high-flown rhetoric touching on the themes humans love to hear: that they are special, superior, a chosen few. That their failures in life are all someone else’s fault. That mystical, unseen forces and secret knowledge will give them power.
The next Saturday there were more than twice the number of humans. And already I had begun to explain that there was an “Outer” Sharing, and an “Inner” one. The humans in the “Outer” Sharing were wiser, better, more moral, superior to the average human, but not as superior as those lucky few who had entered the “Inner” Sharing.
Of course at that point there was no “Inner” Sharing. Just seventy or eighty humans sitting in plush chairs and being fed an endless diet of words that had no clear meaning.
The Inner-Sharing, that was the test of true greatness. And all a human had to do to enter was to surrender their will.
This was what Essam, who had infested only Lowenstein and Hildy, would not credit: that humans would surrender their freedom in exchange for empty words. But I had infested the lost soldier, and the even more lost Jenny Lines. I had tasted human defeat and superstition and weakness.
I knew.
Finally, when I judged the time was right, I eliminated Lore David Altman. Humans will
tear down a living leader but revere a dead one. I left behind sufficient writings…vague
nostrums, platitudes, absurdities, prophecies, the sorts of transparent nonsense that humans
pore over so endlessly.
Considering the ridiculous fuss many Christians made about Harry Potter, it's amusing that these themes in Animorphs (powerful social organization placing worms in people's brains) slipped by unnoticed by the Church.
-
yeah, it's pretty cool she started commenting on all that cult/Scientology stuff before Tom Cruise went crazy. But there was Jonestown and Waco before then, I guess. All the same, doesn't this sound a little different than the Sharing that we knew before Visser came out?
-
It's a bit different, but that's because time had passed and the audience is different
The Sharing that Edriss started was focused towards primarily adults who felt insignificant. In the main series, we see The Sharing as it is focused primarily towards an even weaker sub-group: angsty teenagers.
-
1. What do you think about the dynamic between Visser's One and Three?
Classically political, and they seem to almost religiously hate here.
HOW did Visser Three uncover all the proves to charge a Visser above his ranking?!
2. Edriss' initial opinions of Earth are quite interesting. For instance, she surmises that the most influential place on Earth is "El lay", among other things. What do you think of her initial opinions? Are they accurate? Or the result of cultural ignorance?
If you are talking movie culture, yeah, I'd go LA Hollywood and all. I guess it was what the Yeerk decided to tap into. All those popular characters and celebrities seem to come from there. Anything either than pop culture, I am forced to disagree.
3. What do you think about Essam and Edriss' relationship? After all, Yeerks don't mate unless they are ready to die, and it is a union of three, not two. With this in mind, was their love for one another purely the result of their human hosts? Or something else?
I thought it was peculiar, how at this stage of the series, KA hammers in that funny fact that Yeerks are intelligent sentient species capable of love much like humans and all. In a sick and twisted way, these two Yeerks WERE vital in the birth of the twins.
One could argue that it was all the host's feelings and everything, but it was the Yeerks themselves who were in direction of the actions. These Chronicles are the biggest proof that the hosts' emotions and sensations seep through to the Yeerk. And even a merciless ruthless powerful Yeerk can succumb to the simplest capabilities.
4. What are your thoughts on Edriss' children?
I am struggling to remember how the boy-twin got to be a homeless-drunk. And I can't recall what happened to the girl-twin (Madra?!). Did she get away?!
5. This is the only time in the series where we see the Animorphs attack without knowing what planning led up to the attack firsthand. Any speculation (like why Cassie is in polar bear morph and not wolf, for instance?). Fanfic challenge: write the book that WOULD accompany this mission, if it existed.
I always tried to picture this, too.
I reckon the Anis would HAVE NOT taken her tip, but Marco would have realized that his mum was in peril and they all would have voted to check it out. Having contacted Erek, he himself might have confirmed it, and by some luck happened to find a way that didn't conflict with his programming to help them get to where Visser One was without any detection.
Given what Visser One knew about them at this stage, I think they opted to go all out. And hence Cassie in polar bear and Rachel and Tobias (most experient in Hork-Bajir-morphs) were tactically chosen to throw enemy forces off.
HOW they got the uncoscious Visser One to the safety holographic zone in plain sight of the Yeerk pool without detection, I DUNNO!! Heheheh!
6. What did you think about the conversation between Marco and Eva?
One of the most sensitive and touching moments in the book! Eva shows to be a strong woman herself, inspite of all the demise she's been through with Visser One. Marco had to make a tough choice for the greater good. I am not sure I could have done the same.
7. The Council pardon both Visser's, giving them a chance for redemption. Why do you think they did this? Do you think it was a smart move, politically speaking?
It was conscienciously merciful on their part.
I think it's as simple as those 'higher minds' thinking that they COULD NOT afford to lose, not one, but TWO of their greatest military leaders. Though, I think they were prepared to do so, they could not kill one of their own forces at THIS stage of the war. For good or worse, those two Vissers have given the Empire results.
What I hate most is that we never get details of how the whole Anati System assignment went, though we know later on how Visser One fared.
8. Overall opinions on the book? Favorite quotes, scenes, etc.
I thoroughly enjoyed these Chronicles. The cover is c-o-m-p-l-e--t-e-l-y deceiving. But in the end it's worth it, because the reader gets something new and better. That is, we get a lot of insight on the Invasion from the perspective of the one Yeerk who commenced it all. It had lots of reading highpoints: definitely the surprises Visser Three came up with (some of them were like NO WAY! THESE CAN'T BE THE ANIMORPHS! SHE CAN'T SHOOT HER CHILD!!!), but the scene with Marco talking to his free-mum was GOLD! Even if just for that moment.
The trial itself was a good plot for this book. Having said that, I wish there more detail had been given on the Edriss/Eva in Marco's home facade. It's still a little abstract HOW and WHEN the Yeerk came about Eva and for how long she similutated human family living.
And it was a brilliant move on KA to have this book link in plot-wise with the end of The Proposal. I thought it was refreshing to have this change of pace.
-
I am struggling to remember how the boy-twin got to be a homeless-drunk. And I can't recall what happened to the girl-twin (Madra?!). Did she get away?!
The boy-twin wasn't a homeless-drunk. Hildy was. After Essam was torn from Hildy's head he was never the same and ended up a homeless, mentally ill, drunk.
The boy, Darwin, was caught and made a Controller. He was only about 9 when this book took place....I think. And we never find out what happened to Madra, his sister.
-
Sounds like that would be ample material for a fanfic, people! What do you think happened to Madra? Let's see some fanfiction!
-
A story about her finding out about the Yeerks, and trying to get her brother back.
-
I'd love to, but I'm bogged down with my current projects. :P Maybe I'll put it in the works for down the road. It would be an interesting story, that's for sure!
-
I seem to recall that a lot of people paired her up with Marco, even though she's a lot younger than him... o_O
-
The story of Madra would make a great fanfic! And it's a nice move to make Visser One's somewhat-authentic-daughter of the previous host, pair up with the daughter of the current host.
I have another ponder,
In this story we are iluded to the introduction of the Anati system. Nothing ever came out of it, but we know that Visser One was assigned its conquer and ultimately lost. Whatever could have happened there?!
Next thing we know she's tied to a chair, starving and in her last stages as she is tantalized at the Yeerk pool. WHATEVER could have caused them to execute this type of termination on her?!
Visser One was thus sent far away from Earth, I think it's safe to assume she further tried to smear Visser Three by having a hand in sending the Inspector in to make a proper report on his Earth campaign. Visser Three is to be put under the microscope in the following issues.
-
Well, the animorphs do make contact with the Andalites, and warn them of the trap. Perhaos it failed, and everything went downhill from there.
-
Hey, yeah, they do!!! Good point, dude!
-
I have another ponder,
In this story we are iluded to the introduction of the Anati system. Nothing ever came out of it, but we know that Visser One was assigned its conquer and ultimately lost. Whatever could have happened there?!
Next thing we know she's tied to a chair, starving and in her last stages as she is tantalized at the Yeerk pool. WHATEVER could have caused them to execute this type of termination on her?!
In book 43 Taylor goes on a rant about how the Empire is falling apart, and she mentions the recent bungling of the Anati system. Two books later, Visser One is scheduled for execution.
-
Questions
1. What do you think about the dynamic between Visser's One and Three?
theres a whole lot of hatred there, seems they both hate each other more than the "andalite bandits" definitely interesting
2. Edriss' initial opinions of Earth are quite interesting. For instance, she surmises that the most influential place on Earth is "El lay", among other things. What do you think of her initial opinions? Are they accurate? Or the result of cultural ignorance?
both. does that make sense? we do seem to see hollywood as far more important than it actually is, and edriss was seeing what we see.
3. What do you think about Essam and Edriss' relationship? After all, Yeerks don't mate unless they are ready to die, and it is a union of three, not two. With this in mind, was their love for one another purely the result of their human hosts? Or something else?
again, both. the connection between yeerk and host is very deep. i dont think any yeerk can walk (or slither) away from that completely unaffected. in fact, i wouldnt be surprised if a large part of visser 3's arrogance was thanks to alloran. they have access to every memory and every emotion, and even if they are mostly detached, i think it affects them on a deeper level than they recognize. yeerks have 3 genders, and yet, they seem to refer to themselves, and in fact often act like the gender of their hosts. so the yeerks felt the emotions their hosts did, and it awakened something within themselves.
4. What are your thoughts on Edriss' children?
i dont really know what to think, but given what visser 1 was thinking/saying its obvious what she thinks.
5. This is the only time in the series where we see the Animorphs attack without knowing what planning led up to the attack firsthand. Any speculation (like why Cassie is in polar bear morph and not wolf, for instance?). Fanfic challenge: write the book that WOULD accompany this mission, if it existed.
it is curious that the animorphs chose mostly the same morphs that visser 3 faked for them. cassie was probably just bored of always doing wolf, i dont remember where this was in the timeline, how recently had she aquired the bear?
6. What did you think about the conversation between Marco and Eva?
amazing. marco, basically a kid, manages to make visser 1 sweat about whether or not he is going to save her. he makes one of the highest members of the species invading his planet sweat, freaking awesome.
7. The Council pardon both Visser's, giving them a chance for redemption. Why do you think they did this? Do you think it was a smart move, politically speaking?
yes. despite their failings, they also succeeded quite a lot.
8. Overall opinions on the book? Favorite quotes, scenes, etc.
pretty great. my favorite quote would probably be visser 1's thoughts while in the custody of the animorphs.
Next week: #36, The Mutation
-
They all acquired polar bear morphs in #25, The Extreme. So at this point they'd all had the morphs for about 11 books or so. What that means as far as actual time passed, I'm not sure.
-
This was for sure one of my favorite books in the series. It was full of emotional struggles and an alien look at such emotions as love and attraction really appealed to me.
I cannot believe I managed to let life get a hold of me so much that I forgot about RAF. I am so happy to be back and among my fellow Animorph fans. It is going to bring tears to my eyes ;p.
-
Marco/Madra isn't so bad, my parents have 21 year age gap. Hell Joseph (to have been a qualified carpenter) would have been atleast 24 and Mary would have been 13-15.
-
21 years is just too much. He's old enough to be her father!
And the old days don't count.
My parents have a six year gap, and that's tolerable, but much over that it pushing it. No one should ever date or marry soimeone young enough to be their child. Or old enough to be their parent.
-
21 years is just too much. He's old enough to be her father!
And the old days don't count.
My parents have a six year gap, and that's tolerable, but much over that it pushing it. No one should ever date or marry soimeone young enough to be their child. Or old enough to be their parent.
Marco would have been roughly 14/15 at the time of Visser- Jake says in 54 that the war started when he (Jake) was 13 and finished at 16- as Visser is around halfwayish, I'd put Marco's age at 15. Darwin/Madra are 9- this makes it only a 6 year age gap for the pairing anyway. It's a big gap at those ages, but at 29 and 35? Barely noticeable, really. Not a huge gap, and no bigger than your parents' age gap, Chad. Even if we make a very conservative estimate and say Marco is 16, still only a 7 year gap.
And I don't think voodooqueen actually said her father was the older one... :P
-
To clarify: My father is 21 years older than my mother... and his oldest daughter is 7 years younger than my mother, this maybe why my sister dislikes my mother:P But i think that since my mother was 35 the age gap ceases to be so important after a certain point but there is a limit.
An example of that limit: the prophet Muhammad married Aisha when she was 9 and he was in his 50's, there is speculation that the Sunni/Shia divide was exacerbated by the fact that Fatima was slightly older than her step mother and therefore didn't like her. This age gap is too great, especially since the wife was playing with her dolls...
Having said all that actually I do disapprove of women marrying younger men... I know that sounds sexist, but it is really biological, women cease to be fertile at menopause and start to age rapidly after that, also women seek alpha males and lose respect for men who they support (a study was done that showed that women who had house husbands lost interest in their husbands when natural gender roles were reversed.
-
women hit their sexual peak at about 30. men hit theirs at 18. there biology for you.
-
Men remain fertile until they are really old, and their sex drives tend to remain higher than women's even at 30. I think the whole thing with women hitting their sexual peak at 30 is to make the woman have one last healthy baby before her ovaries become old and then hitting menopause.
-
I don't really go for the Marco/Mardra shipping. I actually forgot about them soon after Visser because nothing else was done with them.
-
Man relationships are not just about having babies, no matter what this book would have us believe.
-
Well, sex is what relationships boil down to, one way or another. That's why girls and guys get together, most of the time. Whether they know exactly why they're interested in the opposite gender or not.
-
Man I hope you're oversimplifying that or else that is very bleak.
-
Things can go deeper than that, but that's what it all boils down to. Sexual drive.
-
Chad is harsh but true, and love and mutual sexual pleasure, causes the man to support the woman as she rears his children.
-
Isn't this off-topic?
-
YES but the feminism coal in my chest is seething right now
-
Ok, how is this a harsh and anti-feminist truth, by the way?
-
Ok, how is this a harsh and anti-feminist truth, by the way?
I can see the harsh part (sort of) but anti-feminist? nope...
-
I think what voodooqueen said was what anijen was referring to with the anti-feminist thing, morfowt.
And I would agree with anijen, except that we really are getting off topic here.
A question to give us something a bit more relevant to discuss, and which I don't think was mentioned in the opening questions: does everyone remember the part during Visser when Visser Three gives Visser One a gun and asks her to shoot Darwin? The Animorphs, luckily, arrive at that moment so she is prevented from having to choose between killing Darwin and effectively signing her own death sentence. But if they hadn't arrived at that crucial moment, what do you guys think she would have done and why?
-
Not usre. She wanted her kids to love her, but was willing to have them infested so she could "make" them love her. In other words, she's nuts. She may have even decided to kill herself.
-
I don't remember the specifics, but what was keeping her from shooting visser three's face off? If she
let her biological drive overtake her to protect Darwin at all costs, she would have shot v3 to cause some chaos and hoped that would give Darwin some time to get away.
If not, though, I think she would have just killed him. I'm actually kind of disappointed we never found out exactly what her priorities were.
-
her son was a controller, and was holding the barrel of the gun to himself.
-
Yeah- it specifically says that Darwin was holding the gun so she couldn't spin around and shoot Visser Three. Darwin was infested at the time- if she did shoot him, they were hoping to rescue the Yeerk, but it was still risky. Visser One mentions that Visser Three must have frightened Darwin's Yeerk into doing it.
-
It would have been safer for the Yeerk if he held the barrel at Darwin's heart.
-
It would have been safer for the Yeerk if he held the barrel at Darwin's heart.
He did. At least I think so- been a little while since I read Visser but I have read it quite a few times :P
-
yeah he did, but the host dying is in general dangerous for the yeerk, i think it makes it tough to get out of the head or something.
-
Idk if I buy this. I feel like a grown woman could overpower a 10 year old kid.
Then again I have a habit of talking out of my ass on this forum, then rereadkng the
book in question and realizing, "oh yeah, that does
work."
-
well, that might be why these topics are called "re-read" visser one had had the crap beaten out of her, and the yeerk was less than half a day away from kandrona starvation. she probably would have had trouble with the 10 year old.
-
Ooh siqburn someone showed up to play!
I could site that mother-lifting-car-off-child-surge-of-adrenaline thing, but Edriss was Darwin's mom, not Eva...could the Yeerk conjure the biological means to rescue her son, even though her host's body wasn't related to him?
IDK JUST ANOTHER UNANSWERED DILEMMA IN AN ANIMORPHS BOOK. Business as usual.
-
I think a surge of adrenaline is a surge of adrenaline regardless of biological ties to the one in danger. People have lifted heavy objects off of friends and even strangers, so it's not completely out there that a Yeerk's feelings could trigger it in the host.
-
Can you imagine the movie that would've been made (in universe) in the post book 54 world. I mean think of the potential for pathos in the book even in minor characters: think about the tragedy that would've resulted from the death of the Iraqi soldier to his wife and children, Lowenstein a holocaust survivor who laid the foundations for Essam's admiration and capitulation to the human race (and the tragedy to survive all that only to be killed by an alien!) or Jenny Lines who reminds me of Forrest Gumps girlfriend...