Richard's Animorphs Forum
Animorphs Section => Animorphs Forum Classic => Topic started by: gecko52 on May 06, 2009, 10:31:34 PM
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We all know him....
The legendary sixth animorph...
Now, were here to give our opinion and reread number 20,21 and 22 together and give opinions
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David is a great foil to the Animorphs, especially Jake and Rachel and, to an extent, Marco. He shows how easily Elfangor's trustworthiness and desperation could have gone terribly wrong and he brings out the dark side in just about all of the Ani's. The trilogy is a turning point for the entire series, I think. It's the point of no return.
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I loved the David Trilogy. As Terenia said, it shows how easily Elfangor's gift could have been twisted into something terrible, and it shows a darker side of the group, especially Rachel.
It also had an impact on the rest of the series, as they obtained the blue box but (due to David's actions) decided against recruiting more Animorphs (at least until right near the end).
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To me, personally it showed how deep and truly evil, the animorphs can be at times, that series when I first read it, gave me chills and made my heart almost stop
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I am gonig to post my favorite part of the book here, it really shows how evil Rachel and Dadvid really are, Book 22 the solution:
Tobias was alive.
It turned out that David had killed a red-tailed hawk. And Jake had seen
that dead hawk. Only it was a different red-tail.
Tobias had simply lost David early in the evening and had been searching
for him ever since.
Jake survived. Cassie found a way to jab a big syringe of adrenaline
into him. Enough to wake him up just as her mom was scrubbing up for
surgery back at The Gardens.
He demorphed to human and calmly walked out of the zoo. He had to wait
two hours for a city bus, but fortunately, Cassie found him a pair of
shoes to wear.
Cassie's mother was seriously freaked. Not only had a near-dead tiger
simply disappeared. He seemed to have reappeared back in his
environment. And there were no signs of any injuries.
Cassie explained that she did a lot of shrugging and kept saying, "I
can't believe it, either, Mom. I was only out of the room for a second."
Of course, that tiger was the one whose DNA Jake had originally
acquired. Same tiger, but not the same tiger.
Ax was fine. He'd only been stunned. He demorphed, terrified some person
driving by, remorphed, and came looking for me.
As for Marco . . .well, Marco awakened to find David standing over him
with the baseball bat. He'd been tied up and locked in his closet.
It took him the rest of the night to get loose.
It had been a bizarre night. But the most bizarre thing was that when it
was all over, we had to go to school.
That's right, school. On zero hours of sleep.
I was so tired my skin was vibrating. I couldn't believe I hadn't been
busted by my mom. I got home that morning just about three seconds
before my alarm clock went off. And five minutes later she was banging
on my door, telling me to get up and help her get my youngest sister,
Sarah, ready for school.
The first few periods I just sat and stared at
the blackboard like someone in a coma. By lunchtime I was reviving a
little, but it was mostly hunger keeping me awake.
I sat with Cassie. She'd probably gotten three, maybe four hours of
sleep. And I hated her for it. Jake grabbed his tray and sat down with
us. Normally, we don't all eat together because we don't want people
thinking of us as a clique of some kind. That would be bad for security.
But this time we just didn't care. We were a very tired little group of
superheroes. I mean, if Visser Three could have seen us right then, he'd
have stopped worrying. We didn't look like we could kick butt on a
four-year-old, let alone on the entire Yeerk Empire.
"Hi," Jake said and slumped into his seat.
"Uh," I grunted.
"How are you doing, Jake?" Cassie asked.
"Uh," he said encouragingly.
"Well, this is going to be a perky little group," Cassie said, laughing.
"Obviously, we need a Starbucks here in the cafeteria. You two could use
some coffee."
"Stop. Talking," I said. I snarled a little. I would have snarled more,
but I was too tired.
Of course, Cassie wasn't in the least bit intimidated. "You're so grumpy
when you lose a Iittle sleep."
We saw Marco heading toward us. He had no tray. But he was smiling.
Well, sure, why not? He'd slept half the night and spent the rest of the
night in a nice dark closet.
"Hi, guys, how's it going?" Marco said. He swung his leg over the back
of the chair and sat down. Tired as I was, that set alarm bells ringing
in my head. Marco doesn't swing his leg over chairs. And Marco doesn't
act that perky, even when he's had a full night of sleep.
I guess Jake had the same reaction. I glanced at him, and all of a
sudden his eyes weren't glazed and unfocused anymore.
"David, I presume," Jake said harshly.
Marco smiled. And then I saw Marco - another Marco, just starting
through the food line.
Cassie was bewildered. She looked from Jake to me. I nodded my head
significantly toward the real Marco.
"I'll stop him," Cassie said, jumping up from her seat.
The last thing anyone wanted was two Marcos at one table. There was a
joke in there somewhere, but I was too busy to think about it.
"What do you want?" Jake demanded.
David/Marco smirked. "What? No small talk? No chitchat?"
I couldn't morph, not there in front of a whole
cafeteria full of yelling, laughing, talking kids. But I could reach
for my fork. And I could wonder what the tines would do if they were
driven hard enough into - I held on to the fork.
"I asked what you want," Jake said calmly.
"I want the blue box. I found it. It's mine. I want it."
Jake actually smiled. "Now, what do you think the odds are of me
agreeing to that?"
Marco/David flushed angrily. "You have no choice, big man. You can't
fight me. I have the same powers you have. And I'm smarter than you are,
so I'll win."
"There are six ... I mean, five... of us," Jake said.
I shot Jake a look. He ignored me. I got the message: No need to tell
David that Tobias had survived. The less he knew, the better.
"I want the box," David said stubbornly.
"What for?" I said. "So you can give it as a birthday present to Visser
Three?"
Cassie came back and sat down next to David. She managed to move her
chair closer to his without being obvious about it. It was deliberate,
of course. She wanted him to have to deal with her as a human being, not
as an enemy.
David blinked. He leaned away from Cassie. Cassie just gave him her big
"understanding" look.
"David, I know you've been through a lot,"
Cassie said in a very quiet voice. David had to lean closer to hear.
"I know your life has gone terribly wrong. I know you're lonely. I know
you're afraid. And I know that deep down inside you feel very sorry for
what happened last night. But you must know that you cannot bargain with
Visser Three. He won't give you what you want."
David shot her a sharp, surprised look. So did I.
"What bargain?" I asked.
Cassie took a forkful of her food and chewed it carefully. "Shall I tell
them, David, or would you like to?" Getting no answer from him, she
sighed and said, "David wants the box so he can ransom his parents.
Isn't that right, David? You want Visser Three to release your parents
so you can have a home again."
For a brief moment there was something vulnerable on the face David had
copied from Marco. But then his eyes hardened.
"That's okay, I don't need the box. I have something else Visser Three
wants. See, I know that the Animorphs aren't Andalite bandits. I know
their names. Their addresses. I give him you," he said, looking at Jake.
"And you," he added, looking at me. "And then, you know what? He can do
to you like he did to my parents. And he can get his blue box from you."
David pushed his chair back noisily. He stood up and walked away.
David walked away. The real Marco headed toward us, looking about like I
felt.
I got up.
"Rachel, what are you doing?" Cassie asked. She put out a hand to grab
my arm.
But Jake said, "Let her go."
I followed David's back as he wove through the kids just coming in. In
the empty hallway outside, David began to change subtly. He was
demorphing. By the time he reached the door to the quad, he was himself
again. He must have been close to the two-hour limit to risk it.
I caught up with him as he started to trot across the grass. I grabbed
his shoulder and
spun him around. I was keyed up, throbbing with barely contained rage.
"You looking for a fight right here?" he asked.
"Why not?" I snapped.
He laughed, a little uncertainly. "You would never morph here in the open."
"I don't need a morph to handle you."
"You know, maybe you forget this sometimes, but you are a girl, Rachel."
"And you're a worm," I shot back. "Want to see who wins that fight?"
"Pretty upset over that Bird-boy, aren't you? What, did you like him or
something?" He grinned. "That's it, isn't it? Aww, how sweet. Too bad.
But you know, birds have a short life span."
"So do worms."
"What are you doing? Trying to scare me?"
"Nah. I wouldn't want to scare you. I just want to tell you something.
You rat us out to Visser Three, we'll know. We have sources inside the
Yeerk organization."
He made a snorting noise. "Yeah, right."
"How do you think we knew the Yeerks were moving against the President
and the others? How do you think we learned that one of those heads of
state was a Controller?"
David looked a little less ****y. I could see the wheels turning in his
head as he realized I
was telling the truth. We hadn't told David about Erek and the other
Chee.
"So see, you sell us out to Visser Three, we will know," I said.
He shrugged. "Big deal. Nothing you can do about it."
"Yeah, you're probably right," I said. "Even if we were warned, we
wouldn't last long." I leaned close, close enough to whisper in his ear.
"But some of us would last a while, you little creep. Long enough to
make sure that your parents . . . well, use your imagination."
He stepped back, drew back his fist, and swung on me. I dodged the blow.
I grabbed his head with one arm and jammed the fork against his ear.
I fought a nauseating urge to twist the fork, to make him scream in pain.
"You want a war between you and us, that's one thing. We'll play that
out," I said. "But you try and sell us out to Visser Three, and your
little family will never get put back together again. Never!"
This time I was the one to turn and walk away.
I was shaking. The muscles in my neck were twitching. Suddenly I had a
raging headache. My ears were ringing.
I was exhausted, yes. But it was more than
that. I was high on adrenaline. High on the rush of power and violence.
What had I just done? In all the time we'd been fighting the Yeerks, I'd
never made a threat like that. What was the matter with me?
I felt... not exactly ashamed. But I knew I never wanted to talk to
Cassie about what I'd just told David. Or Tobias. Or even Marco.
And as for Jake, I found myself filled with a terrifying surge of pure,
utter hatred for him. I couldn't begin to explain it. But I swear at
that moment I hated Jake far more than I did David.
I should have gone back to the cafeteria. I should have told them all
what had happened. But Jake already knew, didn't he? Jake, the smart,
determined leader, already knew all about me.
And I couldn't face him. I couldn't face what he knew about me.
Jake's parents came back that evening. They'd been out of town helping
with a cousin of Jake's and mine. The cousin's name was Saddler. He was
an obnoxious kid, but he'd been badly hurt in an accident. Now he was
being moved to the children's hospital near us.
His relatives were staying with Jake and his family. But we were
expected to help out, too, even though my mom hasn't really gotten along
with Saddler's family since my parents' divorce.
I was informed of all this when I got home from school. I said "fine"
and staggered up to my bed, hit the pillow facedown, and didn't move.
But as tired as I was, sleep wouldn't come. It was a helpless
feeling. Being so exhausted and so unable to sleep.
My brain kept buzzing away, like I'd consumed six pots of coffee or
something.
I kept wondering: Had I always been like this? Back before the
Animorphs, back before that encounter with a dying alien who changed our
lives, who had I been?
I tried to remember, but it wasn't like I was thinking about myself. It
was like I was remembering some girl I used to know. Like she was an
acquaintance I'd forgotten about until someone reminded me. It was like,
"Oh, yeah, Rachel. I remember her."
I'd been very into gymnastics, I knew that. Shopping. I guess I'd never
exactly been a happy-go-lucky party girl. But I tried to imagine myself
back then, and tried to imagine grinding the tines of a fork into
someone's ear while I threatened his family.
I almost laughed. It was crazy. I mean, I'm not someone raised in an
abusive family or anything. Yeah, my folks got divorced, but probably a
third of the kids in school have divorced parents, and another third
wish their parents would divorce.
I'd never had to wonder if my parents loved
me. I knew they did. They told me. And they showed me.
I wasn't on drugs or anything. But somehow, someway, I had gone from
being this occasionally sharp-tongued girl, to being . . . well, as
Marco would say, Xena: Warrior Princess.
What made me feel stupid was that I hadn't realized I was changing. But
everyone else obviously did. Jake did. When he knew it was coming down
to kill-or-be-killed with David, he'd sent Ax to get me. Not Marco. Not
Cassie. "Get Rachel."
And in the cafeteria he had let me go, knowing what I would do.
Afterward, I'd seen Cassie in sixth period. She didn't ask me what had
happened. She didn't ask me what I'd said to David. She'd known.
I could have said, "Look at all the battles I've been through." It would
have been a good excuse. Except that Cassie'd gone through the same
battles. And Marco. And Tobias.
Would Tobias have done what I did? That was the killer question, see.
Because Tobias lived life as a predator now. He'd have every excuse in
the world. But I wondered if even he would have gone as far as I'd gone.
And, I wondered something else. What if David ignored my threat? Would I
... could I ...
"Rachel! Phone! What are you, deaf?"
I jerked upright. It was dark outside my window. "What?" I asked for
no particular reason.
Jordan, my younger sister, stuck her head into the room. "It's Jake.
He's on the phone."
I sat up. My head was buzzing. I rolled over and grabbed the phone.
"Yeah?" I said, pushing my hair more or less into place.
"It's time," Jake said. "That little extra-credit project we've been
working on. It's time for us to give it another shot."
"Oh. Yeah. I'll be right over. Soon as I, you know."
Man, I was stupid from lack of sleep. We still had a mission. We'd
failed yesterday evening and had almost been trapped by Visser Three.
Yesterday? Had it really only been yesterday? It seemed impossible, with
all that had gone on.
I splashed cold water on my face and ran a comb through my hair. Then I
went downstairs to face my mom and try to think up a good excuse why I
had to go over to Cassie's house.
"Rachel!" my mother said as she spotted me coming down the stairs.
"Good. I need you to watch Sarah. I'm going over to the hospital to be
with Saddler's mom and dad."
I was about halfway ready to say, "Fine. That sure beats trying yet
again to bust into some heavily guarded compound and getting our brains
beat in."
But that wouldn't do. "You want me to babysit for Sarah and Jordan?"
"No one baby-sits me!" Jordan said hotly.
"Oh, yeah?" I mocked. "You are either the baby-sitter or the
baby-sittee. And you are a baby-sittee."
"Mom! No way! I can take care of Sarah!" Jordan protested.
"Come on, little babies," I added for good measure.
Well, you can guess where it went from there. Ten minutes later I was
out the door. And ten minutes after that I was demorphing inside
Cassie's barn.
Everyone else was already there. Ax, Tobias, Jake, Cassie, and Marco. At
least, I assumed it was Marco and not David in morph.
"Marco," I said, once I had demorphed. "You know you're a toad?"
"Kiss me and I'll become a prince," he said without hesitation. "I'll be
The Prince Formerly Known As Toad. You know you want me. You can't help
it. After all, you're a female and I'm ... well, I'm me."
"Yeah, that's the real Marco," I said dryly.
Cassie laughed. "Believe me, we all did the same kind of thing. I asked
him to tell me what it was like when we morphed trout. Just to test his
memory."
"And I answered that it wasn't bad except that the cracker-crumb
coating chafed a little and I was allergic to tartar sauce. Now can you
all stop playing that game? I'm afraid I'll miss a punch line and Rachel
will morph to grizzly and eat me before I have a chance to say anything."
"Okay, down to business," Jake said. He sent Ax a significant look and
jerked his head toward me.
<Prince Jake would like me to tell you that we are operating under the
assumption that David may be here in the barn,> Ax said in private
thought-speak. <He is concerned that David may be here in insect morph,
listening to our plans. So our plans will be different than we are
discussing here.>
I gave a very slight nod. Of course. I'd forgotten. David was one of us,
at least in terms of his powers. But Jake hadn't forgotten.
Jake outlined a plan that was basically the same as our previous attempt
to infiltrate the banquet at the resort. There were differences, just so
it would sound convincing. And we all raised various objections, just to
sound even more convincing.
But it wasn't till we were morphed and flying away that Jake told me
what he really had in mind.
<0h, Rachel's gonna love this,> Marco said with a laugh.
He was right. The plan was outrageous, insane, out of control, and violent.
And heaven help me, I liked it.
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Damn. I forgot how powerful that part really is. What is amazing about the David trilogy is that they're so full of action, yet they have some of the most characterization of any book. K. A. wins.
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simply put, David represented a slope that any of them
lost everything, went crazy, and proceeded to try to get back the cube..
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I'm not sympathetic toward David, no matter what his fate was at the end of this or later, but he is a terribly compelling character.
I think everyone reading this series wanted to be an Animorph at some point or another, and then they give you a new kid and make him evil.
Now I was like, 10 when I read the triology, of course I thought he was sick and wrong; but rereading it just a few years later I can't say I wouldn't be tempted. To have that power, and still toe the line seems more than difficult.
He was a great character to pit with Ani's, he drew some very deep stuff out of them.
And the reader
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i think david should have been a regular villain, or at least in more than 4 books, one of which was just god-awful.
he was an awesome villain, he's like the venom to their spiderman.
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He is the representation of what could have easily gone wrong. Of course, he was a messed up kid who got screwed over by the Yeerks, and his friends were too focused on the most important mission in their efforts so far to focus on him. So the odds were heavily against him.
I think he would have made a great villain. He could have returned in book 27 with help from Crayak, and fought the Anis and Yeerks. I'm not sure how I would have it end with him, though. Heel face turn, heroic sacrfice, or some other way.
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Yeah after reading it the first time when it came out i was all worried the series was going to end at the time . than teh end made me all ok so it wont end.
Second time i read it I got mad at Tobias for not just taking the cube from the window when he saw it.
if Elfangor wouldn't have found teh chosen group it might have been a total disaster.
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He is the representation of what could have easily gone wrong. Of course, he was a messed up kid who got screwed over by the Yeerks, and his friends were too focused on the most important mission in their efforts so far to focus on him. So the odds were heavily against him.
I think he would have made a great villain. He could have returned in book 27 with help from Crayak, and fought the Anis and Yeerks. I'm not sure how I would have it end with him, though. Heel face turn, heroic sacrfice, or some other way.
I agree with this post, and fully support the idea of David leading six Howlers against the Animorphs+Ax+Erek on the Iskoort homeworld... although the idea of David making a heel-face turn or heroic sacrifice in-canon... I can't back it. I'd rather see him go ahead and die standing up for himself against the Animorphs... after all, he is who he is. I don't like the idea of him becoming someone entirely different so the ends could be tied up neatly...
Anywho. I've contemplated David in the past. *goes to find her post!*
Here we go:
...I still feel bad for David. Maybe I'm just such an antagonist fangirl, but I do sort of understand why he did what he did. The first five books of the Animorphs, (and the eighth) after all, are all all about how the Animorphs each have their own motivations for fighting the war- Jake fights for his brother, Rachel fights for the families that are being torn apart by the Yeerks (made more poingnant by the way her own family is crumbling/has crumbled), Tobias fights to keep his humanity, Cassie fights to keep the Yeerks from destroying the "useless" plants and animals on Earth, Marco fights for his mother, and Ax fights to fulfill the promise he made to avenge Elfangor. David has no friends- his family moves around a lot and he doesn't know anyone in Santa Barbara. All he has in the world are his parents (both gone, and in #20, if I remember correctly (and appologies if I haven't! ^^()) no one talks to David about saving them or how they're not gone forever) and his pets, both presumed dead. He has no one to fight for but himself, and so he is his number one priority.
Keeping in mind, of course, that the others (especially Marco) promise to help Jake bring Tom back. Initially, Marco only joins the fight to help Jake get Tom back. Once everyone's level on the fact that Marco's mom's Visser 1, they all promise to help bring her back. As far as David can see, these self-righteous kids have something the Yeerks want, a bargaining chip for getting his parents, and his whole world, back- and they aren't willing to even half-pretend to consider helping him. (Of course, they were right not to give the Yeerks the Escafil! But really, I can see where it might make an already troubled kid kind of bitter.)
This makes him act in less-than-desirable ways, true, but I don't think it was psychosis or anything that caused him to act in these ways. After all, all the Animorphs talked about using their morphs to sneak into paid events/steal/do whatever other self-serving things. They rarely did them, but they had power and they were tempted to use it to better their own lives. They didn't, because they had a sense of responsibility, and they used it to fight in the war because they had something to fight for. David had a sense of entitlement and nothing to fight for. He did what he felt he needed to do.
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I love your sig :)
What about the other David book, The Return? Comments?
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I love your sig :)
What about the other David book, The Return? Comments?
The Return was a terrible book with a beautiful ending. It is still one of my favorites, only because the last chapter exists. It's the last big turning point for Rachel's character, to me.
Other than that last chapter, though, the book was....odd.
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I didn't really like the Return either. Partly because I felt it was wasted potential for David, and partly because it showed Rachel in a light that I really didn't feel was true to her character. Rachel has a dark side, but she's far from being a monster.
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I love your sig :)
What about the other David book, The Return? Comments?
Thankyou. =3
I'm gonna mostly agree with Terenia here... at first, I thought I was just being kind of slow, finding that book hard to follow. ^^() I mean, Cassie is there but she's not but she is. And the how of David's return doesn't seem to be... doesn't seem to be properly fleshed out.
(What I wanted was for Crayak to give David his morphing power back and send him back in time to acquire his human self, just like Ellimist did with Tobias. Human!David wakes up to see rat!David, and after establishing that it's just a dream, rat!David warns his old human self that the Animorphs are going to try to kill him. Like Tobias mentioned when he got his human morph, he remembers the dream, which acts as the catalyst for David betraying the Animorphs in the first place.)
It's what I imagined when I first heard David was coming back, and darn it, I was disappointed. I mean, I didn't expect that exact scenario, but I expected something slightly more thoughtful than what we got...
I liked the ideas in the book... I like Rachel realizing that the other Animorphs use her to do the dirty work. I like her trying to control her darker side, trying to keep herself human. I like her choice at the end. What really, really bothers me is that, in the end, once more, we get the exact same feed that we've gotten with Rachel every book since the Seperation- "I realized I'm an angry person, so I've been working on it. I'm better now. I don't enjoy it as much. Self-improvement. Making it all better." Everything in this book felt like a turning point, but we couldn't just rest on the fact that Rachel has changed, and doesn't get to go back. We know she doesn't stop enjoying the fight. We know she doesn't stop doing the Animorphs' dirty work. We know she continues to be angry and difficult to deal with. But I guess when you've ended half a dozen books on the exact same line, it's a hard habit to break...?
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I just don't get it, does he die in the Return or live?
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Well really it's up to you to interpert it; they left it open for that.
I like to think I dies but not by Rachels hand.
I toy with the idea he was picked off by a random red-tail
Not tobias those; if he knew it was david he wouldn't, and if he didn't it'd just be cruel
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I don't know if he dies or not, but I don't like that he was made to live that kind of life. I kind of sympathise with him, but I also feel it was also his fault.
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Personally, I think Rachel killed him.
Several books later, when Jake tells her what he wants her to do in 54, she warns him that if he sends her to do it, she will do it- she WILL be able to kill a human being she's known all her life. As though she's killed a human being she knew before, and therefore knows she'd be able to do it again. I believe her killing David was a huge turning point that was required to get her to the level of ruthlessness she needed to kill Tom later in the series.
But the end of 48 is left to the interpretation of the reader. So it's up to you whether you think she did or didn't.
This thread (http://community.livejournal.com/animorphs/461982.html) from the Animorphs LJ has some pretty sweet posts on the topic. Particularly the last one.
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Well, I just think it's not gone into enough
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I never liked David even when he was good(well...as good as he could get) I knew as soon as I heard about the David trilogy I thought "cool, a new Animorph...wander how long that's gonna last" and when I actually read "the Threat" David just gave off the vibe that he was gonna do exactly what he did in future books. that moment he had with Rachel where she jammed the fork in his ear was priceless, and I applaud Rachel for not just killing him on the spot like I would've LOL I would have take that fork and rammed it right into his eye and slowly twisted it until he bled to death, LOL just like how at the end of the return, I would have killed him. he's much too dangerous to the mission to be left alive.
I would have loved to see David as a main antagonist, maybe the animorphs would have found a way to kill the Drode so Crayak makes David the new Drode. I remember reading a fic where that happened, it was after Rachel died and the Ellimist made her his sidekick and gave her some of his powers so that she could fight Crayak and David alongside him. It was a pretty epic battle DBZish battle lol. But yeah, I would loved to see more of David, he was a character who had a lot of potential to be an even better villain than the Yeerks.
as for his "heroic sacrifice" I could see him dieing for his parents, but not anybody else, although Im pretty sure had he stayed on the team then Jake would have sent him on that suicide mission instead of Rachel. if David were to make some type of heroic sacrifise, it would most likely be......
him and the animorphs fighting a bunch of controllers, his parents r finally freed, they're all surrounded by controllers, there's only one way to escape and it would involve one person(*cough*David*cough*) staying behind to fend off the controllers while the others made a quick get a way with David's parents following them
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i agree with those that said David was not evil, a brat yes, but not evil. he lived a vary shallow life and lost it all in a few minutes then dragged into a war with little choice in the matter and given little hope of getting his past life back.
the big things i saw during the three books was how stressed the group was becoming and how much Cassie was holding out on them. two maybe three books earlier David may have been able too fit himself into the animorphs after 19... kid never had a chance.
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Both those statements are true, but he tried to kill them. Kill them! That kind of behavior isn't cool
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lol true but they should be used to people trying to kill them by now
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I don't remember all the details about Cassie holding back, but since this is right after the book where she quits, I'm not too surprised that she would.
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Seriously? I'm the first person to vote for David as the most evil of those three? I find that surprising. Yes I know Visser Three did a lot more terrible things, but that doesn't make him much worse than most of his fellow Yeerks. David on the other hand, was a human being who willingly chose to betray and try to murder his own people. In my mind, David is more evil than Visser Three. He may have just started off as a jerk, but it takes more than being a jerk to kill someone.
Nobody knows if Rachel killed David at the end of #48, but I don't think she did. Considering the way she felt and the things she said about being one of the good guys, I don't think she had it in her to kill David, even as an act of mercy. Hard to say for sure though, as I'd have expected her to talk about it with the others if she had spared him.
It could have been interesting to see David as a recurring villain, but it might have been difficult to pull off. And I think having him do a "heroic sacrifice" is a bad idea as that would create more sympathy for his character (not to mention the fact that he was too much of a selfish bastard to do something selfless).
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Betraying and murdering his own people sounds a lot like Visser Three to me. At least David had some standards. He only tried to kill the Anis while they were in morph. When Visser Three kills people, it's like <I told you to bring me UNSWEETENED tea!>*kills*. David had problems, and I didn't approve of his actions, but Visser Three is a lot worse.
I obviously already sympathise with David. Though a heroic sacrifice may be out of character for him. Even if his parents were involved.
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Seriously? I'm the first person to vote for David as the most evil of those three? I find that surprising. Yes I know Visser Three did a lot more terrible things, but that doesn't make him much worse than most of his fellow Yeerks. David on the other hand, was a human being who willingly chose to betray and try to murder his own people. In my mind, David is more evil than Visser Three. He may have just started off as a jerk, but it takes more than being a jerk to kill someone.
Nobody knows if Rachel killed David at the end of #48, but I don't think she did. Considering the way she felt and the things she said about being one of the good guys, I don't think she had it in her to kill David, even as an act of mercy. Hard to say for sure though, as I'd have expected her to talk about it with the others if she had spared him.
It could have been interesting to see David as a recurring villain, but it might have been difficult to pull off. And I think having him do a "heroic sacrifice" is a bad idea as that would create more sympathy for his character (not to mention the fact that he was too much of a selfish bastard to do something selfless).
Visser 3 killed more yeerks then he did humans, going even as far as eating his fellow slugs alive.
David started out wanting respect, something he never understood. then he realized all the cumforts he took for granted was gone, the animorphs did not care and expected him too live off their charity! hell no, he had his pride and power too provide for him self, what ever he took was OK because he would be the one risking his life. Animorphs would not allow that. Well if they were going too be like that he would take his blue box and leave, the animorphs could fight they little war however they wanted. He knew they wouldn't give him the box back so he had too make them give it back, too show him respect. with his sense of right and wrong rooted only in what could be proven in a court of law the whole morphing thing made him seem beyond the law. Only illegal if you get caught.
in the end thanks too his now twisted logic everything was right in the world again. the arrogant animorphs were humbled by his awesomeness. the last bit of his old life and key too his future was being returned. On top of that he was getting a somewhat normal life back by replacing a practical dead person AND sparing that person's parents the pain of watching their kid die. Where is the evil in that?
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On top of that he was getting a somewhat normal life back by replacing a practical dead person AND sparing that person's parents the pain of watching their kid die. Where is the evil in that?
:o Actually, I find replacing Sadler perhaps the most evil of all the things he tried to do.
He'd be forcing a lie onto these people for the rest of their lives, and even if Sadler wasn't the greatest kid in the world do you really think David would treat the family with any sense of love or respect? Much as the truth would suck in that situation, do you think it'd be better than letting them life a lie?
Plus, wtf would he have done with the guys body.
David was messed up, and that plan was undoubtedly sick.
Still wouldn't put him past the willful malice of the Visser however
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See, I think that one of the biggest things with David was that he just didn't have a concept of his new reality.
Yes, it was evil for him to betray the human race. But I don't think he saw it that way. I think, in his mind, he saw it of him wiping his hands of the situation and using his powers to advance himself. I don't think he really made the connection that he was potentially dooming the planet. That's a big idea to wrap your brain around.
Similarly, by morphing Saddler, I don't think he saw it as 'evil'. In his mind it was his chance at regaining a life for himself, especially since there was so little chance that the real Saddler would make it.
That's not to say that what he did wasn't evil. But I think it's important to note that David didn't believe he was being evil. He was just the kind of person who only looked out for himself. It doesn't excuse his actions, but perhaps it explains them a bit.
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Who voted Rachel!? I hope that was a joke, otherwise someone needs to be smoten.
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:o Actually, I find replacing Sadler perhaps the most evil of all the things he tried to do.
yes that was evil no question. i was trying show how twisted i thought his thinking had become.
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Well, All I'm saying is, Daivd was crazy from the start, he manipulated and toyed with the Animorphs emotions and feelings like they were just dolls! I mean really, they shouldv've never accpeted a seventh memeber, it should've been just the six of them
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Well, All I'm saying is, Daivd was crazy from the start, he manipulated and toyed with the Animorphs emotions and feelings like they were just dolls! I mean really, they shouldv've never accpeted a seventh memeber, it should've been just the six of them
True, but their other option was to give him up to the Yeerks, and they couldn't bring themselves to do it. In hindsight it would have been better for everyone if they had done that, but that's why hindsight's a biatch :)
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Why would it have been better to turn him over? Do you mean right in the beginning, instead of rescuing him? Just get the cube and run? Because by the end there was no way to do it without all their secrets being told.
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Why would it have been better to turn him over? Do you mean right in the beginning, instead of rescuing him? Just get the cube and run? Because by the end there was no way to do it without all their secrets being told.
Yes, in hindsight it would have been better for the Ani's to turn David over before he even saw them. But that's a line of morality that they weren't willing to cross. At least, not until AFTER David betrayed them. I'm sure if a similar situation had come up they would have given the person up, rather than risk another David.
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See, I think that one of the biggest things with David was that he just didn't have a concept of his new reality.
Yes, it was evil for him to betray the human race. But I don't think he saw it that way. I think, in his mind, he saw it of him wiping his hands of the situation and using his powers to advance himself. I don't think he really made the connection that he was potentially dooming the planet. That's a big idea to wrap your brain around.
Similarly, by morphing Saddler, I don't think he saw it as 'evil'. In his mind it was his chance at regaining a life for himself, especially since there was so little chance that the real Saddler would make it.
That's not to say that what he did wasn't evil. But I think it's important to note that David didn't believe he was being evil. He was just the kind of person who only looked out for himself. It doesn't excuse his actions, but perhaps it explains them a bit.
Exactly! I agree with this. He wanted to bargain with the Yeerks, trade the Escafil for his parents. He wanted to rebuild the life that had been taken away from him. He thought if he fought beside the Animorphs, he would die. (Not a bad assumption. A few books later, they hire on some more new Animorphs, and look at what happens to them!) He thought if he tried to resign, they'd turn on him. (Could they trust him to just walk away? Somehow, I doubt it.) So he struck preemptively. What he did was terrible, but in his mind, it was fully justified.
Although I disagree that leaving David to the Yeerks would have been the best option... he had memories, after all, of Marco being very eager to buy the Escafil, and that same night Andalites attempting to steal it. David tells Marco that the e-mail with his address goes out right as he gets home, and a few hours later the Andalites are waiting in David's house when Esplin gets there. Coincidentally, this kid is the son of the host body of a Yeerk who saved the Andalite bandits in #5, was saved by an Andalite bandit in #15, and would later be spared by an Andalite bandit in... I think #25.
I'd think it'd be a security risk to let David over to the Side of Evil. They should have killed him then...
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There's no way they would kill David before his outright betrayal. And "a few books later" was more like 30+ books later. The group was different then.
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There's no way they would kill David before his outright betrayal. And "a few books later" was more like 30+ books later. The group was different then.
Yeah, killing David was not an option then. They didn't even discuss it. They just hadn't reached that point yet.
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Well, to me the Animorphs played that trilogy stupid. They already knew they couldn't trust anyone becuase they didn't know whose who, but still tehy just went on and poof! They did exaclty wat they tried to stop in the first place, so all in all it was all their fault, because they should've seen it coming, that's my opinion ok? I thought David needed to be mroe evil, so I wrote a fan fic called the hands of armageddon, check it out it's when David makes a reutrn and it's really good
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I thought David needed to be mroe evil
I think part of the point of David's character was that he wasn't pure evil. He was an annoying, bratty kid who got shoved in a horrible situation and dealt with it badly. David is not evil. David does evil things, but David is not evil.
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Well, all I'm saying is, evil or not, if your exlisted in a war to fight, you don't go all evil halfway through, no matter what you've gone through
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David is a good example of why we don't draft people in the USA anymore. Volunteers only.
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Well, all I'm saying is, evil or not, if your exlisted in a war to fight, you don't go all evil halfway through, no matter what you've gone through
Maybe so, but it's a slightly different situation than being 'enlisted'. No training, no preparation, many of David's morphs were first-timers in the middle of a mission (like when he had to morph ****roach on the Blade Ship). Plus, David is 13-14 years old. It's enough to make someone who, a few nights prior had a bed and a family and a couple of pets with bad names go a little crazy.
(sorry, if you haven't been able to tell, I'm a bit of a David sympathizer)
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You're not the only David sympathizer around.
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I don't feel sorry for David at all, but I actually think the character was pretty realistic. Most kids that age would not handle the situation nearly as well as the original animorphs had. What David did was pretty evil, but his attitude was understandable considering his past (no friends, moved around a lot)
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I agree that most kids would freak out... But I don't think that most kids would reason "Your just a bird Its ok to kill a bird, not a person" I think most 14 year olds don't kill birds and other animals... isn't that a precursor to a serial killer or something.
I'm sure that animorphs wouldn't let him just walk away but I'm sure they would have let him perhaps not fight, at first but towards the end no way. Yes I hated David with a passion. In particular how he was towards Rachel.
And Visser 3 was bad, but any worse than Visser 1 (Edriss) or toms yeerk?
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I hated David from the start. The idea of another Animorph? Not good. I'm glad he turned out so evil :P
Would've been nice, though, if they had intro'd a girl at that point. A female David!
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I'd say my main problem with David was that I didn't consider him to be . . . well, very smart, but the Animorphs apparently did. He seemed to have a certain mental block barring him from understanding a few basic concepts, like for example being an Animorph was not at all like being in school, he keeps coming back to the Animorphs being some sort of clique and how he's the new guy that nobody likes and it gets really irritating after a while, he actually uses that nonsense hand in hand with Tobias not being a human to justify murdering him, many of the things he says just show me an insecure kid who tries to be cool by owning a cobra which is illegal, but telling people about it, is clearly jealous of characters like Rachel and just really isn't capable of grasping the situation he's in, and that kind of stuff can be forgiven except that killing someone over that bull is crossing a major line, feeling left out, jealous, and confused doesnt equal a right to take human life even if it isn't in human form David did this or at least thought he did it once and kept trying to do it again.
I do think however that the Animorphs made one major mistake that made David's choices seem more limited to him, see with Jake he just knew they'd try to rescue Tom, Marco's initial reason for remaining with the group was only to help Jake, and with Marco's mother Marco knew Jake would never let her stay a controller and Jake said as much, see nobody even once suggested to David that they'd rescue his parents, did he even know that was on the table? Did they even think of it? I don't remember them ever even saying that they'd try, and why not? Sure Visser Three would be expecting it at first, but if you're going to be so ambitious as to plan on rescuing Visser One who isn't even on earth most of the time the least you can do is tell David you'll try to rescue his parents, give the kid some incentive, instead he had none.
David didn't really have anything to fight for, what was in it for him? Continued survival? That was arguable because the missions could get him killed, so what else? Friendship? He was too closed off to let the others even try to be his friends, and lets face it, kid was kind of a jerk anyway. The only perk they told him about was turning into animals, but when he did so without supervision Jake threatened him, David wasn't a member of the group he really was just the new guy nobody really liked (. . . but he didn't have to keep saying it!)
Honestly I do wish it had worked out with David, he had a certain charm before he went JtHM on everyone and you know Rahcel must have wanted to ask him how he got a friggin' Orca morph. But then agian I wish a lot of things, doesnt mean they're going to come true. In the end David done effed up, it wasn't entirely his fault that he did, but he did, and how could they trust him to stop?
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The fact that the Anis just forgot David's parents or something, and that they put him in Cassie's barn instead of Erek's guest bedroom, really didn't help the situation. If they weren't so focued on an admitedly extremely important mission, things might have been different.
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Rahcel must have wanted to ask him how he got a friggin' Orca morph.
I just assumed he got it from the Gardens, just like the Animorphs did in the Nartec book
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Falcon, I don't think that David was unintelligent. I think that he, much like Rachel, allows himself to be ruled by his emotions. Unlike Rachel, he also lets his ego step in. If he stopped to reason and think about the situation, perhaps things would have ended differently. But everything happened very quickly and most of David's moves - even his "well-thought out" plan to capture/kill the Ani's were all based on an emotional investment. He lacked Marco's ability to see clearly from point A to point B, and he let his emotions take him much further than he would have if he had an objective viewpoint.
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Falcon, I don't think that David was unintelligent.
No problem, I'll think it enough for us both ;)
I think that he, much like Rachel, allows himself to be ruled by his emotions. Unlike Rachel, he also lets his ego step in. If he stopped to reason and think about the situation, perhaps things would have ended differently. But everything happened very quickly and most of David's moves - even his "well-thought out" plan to capture/kill the Ani's were all based on an emotional investment. He lacked Marco's ability to see clearly from point A to point B, and he let his emotions take him much further than he would have if he had an objective viewpoint.
That sounds about right really. I stand by my earlier comment that his inability to see past his school popularity mentality was irksome, but I'm willing to agree that he's ruled by his emotions and ego, that he was often rushed, I just don't see how this makes him any more intelligent. Don't get me wrong, I wasn't trying to say David was some kind of drooling idiot, just that he was not the genius he's made out to be by . . . well, mostly himself. David can be thick at times but no more so than any of the other Animorphs, but see David doesnt actually do anything to make me feel like he's as brilliant as he thinks he is or that he's as clever as the Animorphs later pretend to think he is.
But as he tries to fight the Animorphs every move he makes with the exception of morphing Sadler, which really was quite clever despite some minor flaws, is either predicted by the Animorphs (they knew he'd be listening in on their meetings for example) or based entirely on luck (actually getting away with morphing Marco both at Marco's house and at the school) reading as a kid the only time he ever impressed me was when he caught the animorphs off guard as a killer whale, but I'm old enough now to see what really happened there, he was just lucky to have the orca morph, he didn't get it because he planned on killing dolphins that night, he had no way of knowing they would be dolphins that night. He'd gotten it beforehand because he wanted it and it turned out to be useful. He was probably there as an eagle hoping to take them out as gulls, saw them come out of the sea, figured out that they were some kind of sea creatures, morphed orca and had they been orcas as well he very likely would have backed off. He didn't outsmart them he just got lucky.
In fighting the Animorphs David was often lucky, not brilliant. Not stupid by any means either, but definately not brilliant.
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You're right about that. In almost every way, he was outpredicted. Though the only reason he lost in the end was because he killed the wrong red tailed hawk. Had Tobias actually been dead, David would have them at his mercy. Four ****roaches in a bottle, with only Rachel was a fellow rat. If memory serves correctly, which it doesn't always do.
Does anyone think the rat morph may have been symbolic? People believe Tom's Yeerk's choice of morphing a snake was symbolic in the end. Maybe trapping David as a rat was also symbolic.
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Actually David also made the mistake of not caring who the Animorph's allies were, had Tobias really been dead Erek could have been the one who let them out and he doesnt need a morph to stay hidden so the plan to get David in the end still could have worked if Tobias had truly been lost. He might not have been willing to help them trap David as a rat, but then again they might not have told him. Tobias did contribute greatly in other ways though, like observing Erek so who knows?
As for symbolism, I think one of the animorphs mentions how David turning into a rat is fitting, so probably :P
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Yeah, it could have been someone else. But with the knowledge that David had, it was a solid plan. Does that count for anything?
If I was going to make him a villain, I would have made him the kind that's ruled by emotion anyway. Not genius. Much like how Rachel is portrayed later in the series.
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I think that David is a perfect case study of an individual with antisocial personality disorder, or, as it is more commonly known as, socio-pathology. However, we would have to go with a diagnosis of Conduct Disorder because an individual must be 18 or older to receive a diagnosis of APD. Here is the criteria for conduct disorder:
Aggression to people and animals
(1) often bullies, threatens, or intimidates others
(2) often initiates physical fights
(3) has used a weapon that can cause serious physical harm to others (e.g., a bat, brick, broken bottle, knife, gun)
(4) has been physically cruel to people
(5) has been physically cruel to animals
(6) has stolen while confronting a victim (e.g., mugging, purse snatching, extortion, armed robbery)
(7) has forced someone into sexual activity
Destruction of property
(8 ) has deliberately engaged in fire setting with the intention of causing serious damage
(9) has deliberately destroyed others' property (other than by fire setting)
Deceitfulness or theft
(10) has broken into someone else's house, building, or car
(11) often lies to obtain goods or favors or to avoid obligations (i.e., "cons" others)
(12) has stolen items of nontrivial value without confronting a victim (e.g., shoplifting, but without breaking and entering; forgery)
Serious violations of rules
(13) often stays out at night despite parental prohibitions, beginning before age 13 years
(14) has run away from home overnight at least twice while living in parental or parental surrogate home (or once without returning for a lengthy period)
(15) is often truant from school, beginning before age 13 years
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I rather liked David as a villain. He seemed more lifelike than the Yeerks or Visser Three, at least. He seemed to be right in the action all the time, whereas Visser Three was kind of in the distance going "I'll get you Andalite bandits next time!!1"
Although, honestly, it's a good thing he wasn't made regular, or else it would have gotten old. There's only so much you can do with a character like him.