Richard's Animorphs Forum
Animorphs Section => Animorphs Forum Classic => Topic started by: Chad32 on April 14, 2009, 06:39:39 PM
-
Yeerks aren't the only creatures that could die in three days without proper nourishment. The Human body needs food and water, and I believe could starve to death or become dehydrated enough to die if he/she doesn't take anything.
So let's discuss what the others might do if the Yeerk refused to let Jake eat. Would Cassie have something where they could give him nutrition intraveinously? Or would they try other means?
discuss. Or if I'm wrong, and Jake could very well last three days without dying, then correct me.
-
Well, humans can go 3 days without water and 3 weeks without food. So yeah, the yeerk could have killed him. Though, that is a good question as to why the yeerk didn't drain him.
However, if Jake died, the yeerk would have died as well. Why the yeerk didn't take Jake down with him, though, is a good question.
-
errr why is this in the role play board.... shouldent it be in the animorph fourm? :-\
-
I agree with B-Rad, I'm confused.... how does this relate to role playing?
Did you post it in the wrong forum by accident?
-
errr why is this in the role play board.... shouldent it be in the animorph fourm? :-\
I honestly have no idea. Messed up that one real good. :-[
It was supposed to be in Animorphs discussion. Not roleplay. If a Mod would be so kind to move, I would be grateful.
3 weeks seems like a very long time to go without food. I heard it took longer to go without food than water, but 3 weeks seems to be pushing it.
-
i dunno about that either.
-
errr why is this in the role play board.... shouldent it be in the animorph fourm? :-\
I honestly have no idea. Messed up that one real good. :-[
It was supposed to be in Animorphs discussion. Not roleplay. If a Mod would be so kind to move, I would be grateful.
okay :)
-
If he was trying to kill Jake, why wouldn't he just have him committ suicide?
-
What do you think would be the quickest way for him to do that?
-
What do you think would be the quickest way for him to do that?
stopping his hearts? yeerks do have some control over involuntary things, like controlling hearts. aftran slowed Ax's hearts a little in #29.
3 weeks seems like a very long time to go without food. I heard it took longer to go without food than water, but 3 weeks seems to be pushing it.
yeah, I heard it was 1 week not 3.
-
What do you think would be the quickest way for him to do that?
he could've morphed to ant and find another colony?
Interesting thread by the way Chad28!
-
same as how a human would commit suicide.
-
except he was tied up and guarded so...it'd be a bit different.
-
oh yeah...forgot about that aspect...
-
I think Aftran had to try hard just to slow down Ax's hearts. I don't know if stopping it would be an option.
Judging from how many times he was able to morph sfter the tiger, I question just how closely guarded he really was. He probably could have thought of something. Especially after he gave up trying to get away.
I actually got the idea from a roleplay I was in, where Kelran's character by the same name was infested. The Yeerk was going to let him starve, so I had my character convince him to come out on the grounds that I'd let him become any nothlit he wanted to. We had the blue box at the time.
-
I've also heard 3 days without water and 3 weeks without food, but that's more of an estimate. If you're in the middle of the Sahara, you might not last a day without water. As for the 3 weeks thing, I highly doubt people who are used to 3 meals a day plus snacks are likely to survive 3 weeks without food, but they'd easily last a week, possibly two.
Jake's Yeerk might have been able to kill him by refusing water (assuming the Animorphs didn't force him to drink) but why would the Yeerk do that? The Yeerk had every intention of escaping and was more than arrogant enough to assume that it would succeed. So why would it try to kill itself?
-
Well, if he had accepted food up until the point where he gave up trying to get away, then the plan wouldn't work. Because that would have been a couple days of eating. So by the time he gave up, it would be too late to make Jake starve to death.
It worked in the roleplay because Kelran was a Gryphon. So he could just say that his body needed food quite often for whatever reason.
-
Starving wouldn't have worked anyway because there's no way a person would starve to death from not eating for only 3 days.
-
true that....maybe he could have impaled himself somehow...
-
What do you think would be the quickest way for him to do that?
he could've morphed to ant and find another colony?
Interesting thread by the way Chad28!
actually, he did morph ant didn't he? Then freaked out and went human again after being attacked.
I think in general Yeerks don't do the suicide thing, they want to win, but if they know they're beat they don't go out in blaze of glory, they get caught and hope for some redemsion later. Even in taking out someone else, he wouldn't hasten his own death
-
3 weeks seems like a very long time to go without food. I heard it took longer to go without food than water, but 3 weeks seems to be pushing it.
It would be painful to be sure, but you could survive of your own bodies nutrients, basically eating yourself...taxxonis h
-
What do you think would be the quickest way for him to do that?
he could've morphed to ant and find another colony?
Interesting thread by the way Chad28!
actually, he did morph ant didn't he? Then freaked out and went human again after being attacked.
I think in general Yeerks don't do the suicide thing, they want to win, but if they know they're beat they don't go out in blaze of glory, they get caught and hope for some redemsion later. Even in taking out someone else, he wouldn't hasten his own death
*nods* I agree with this exactly. Here, have a quote:
I realized then that there is a very basic difference between Yeerks and humans.
A human will fight even when he knows he can't win. Maybe our species is just a little crazy.
But human history is full of cases where a handful of guys would fight an entire army. They'd get
stomped, but they'd fight anyway.
That's not the way it is for Yeerks. They are ruthless. They will do anything, absolutely anything
to win. But when the situation is impossible, totally impossible, they stop fighting. They figure
that other Yeerks will carry on the fight for them.
A kamikaze strike likely never occurred to poor Temrash. Either he fully intended to escape and win, or he had come to terms with the fact that he was dying and figured his brother Yeerks would carry on the fight.
Also, as far as I've been able to tell, most Yeerks do what they do in order to not be killed by superiors, or to get a promotion or a better host. Temrash had nothing to gain whatsoever by destroying Jake's body and also killing himself- doing so might have helped the Yeerk race out, but personally, Temrash wouldn't stand to profit.
Edit: Oh, and yeah, I've always learned the "Rule of 3's". Three minutes without air, three days without water, three weeks without food.
It varies, of course, from one person to the next, but that's the general rule as I remember it. ^^()
-
Also, by the time the yeerk realized there was no way out, it was weakened by the lack of kadrona rays. So that may have had some effect as well.
-
Did they even mention food and water in book 6? I just read it, not a week ago, and I don't recall them saying anything about feeding and watering Jake. It kind of skipped from the first night to the end of the third day, to my recollection.
It's an interesting question, though. And I remember in THBC, Esplin saying something along the lines of "We can make Kandrona starvation last for weeks" or something, and it would definitely be a painful death to keep nourishment from both host and Yeerk. However, I'd like to think the Yeerks are practical enough to want to protect hosts, since they're viable and important resources, but even keeping hosts healthy is a high cost. How exactly did Visser Three keep all of those Hork-Bajir and Taxxons fed? Taxxons eat each other, which seems impractical but it's an answer, and there was that water/air truck ship in book #3, but what about bark? Did they just unleash armies of Hork-Bajir into the National Park to strip as many trees as far away from civilization as possible?
-
They never do say anything about giving Jake/Temrash food and water, but they must have given him something. There's no reason why they wouldn't. They skip a lot of that time. Maybe KA thought it would be boring to spell out all the mundane feeding and talking. You know one of them would try to make small talk during their watch hours.
As for the Horks, they may sens shipd out to retrieve food in very remote parts of the planet, in similar fashion to the truck ships. If they do just send the Horks down themselves, they likely drop them off in uninhabited forests or jungles to feed.
-
Okay first point: the yeerk wanted to have jake as a host not kill him even when he was getting desprate he didn't kill jake. Second I'd wait until he was asleep and then stick a straw in Jake's mouth for water. As for stopping heartbeat a human has to have immense focus and skill to controll it and even though a yeerk is tied into the brain it is questionable if it can gain complete controll of the medulla (which is responsible for innvoluntary functions such as breathing and heart rate) since it spreads through the cracks in the brain.
-
Yeah it doesn't seem likely that Yeerks would have the ability to stop their hosts heart, as that would kill them as well. It's unlikely nature would evolve a trait which allows an animal to voluntarily kill itself.
-
Right. The survival instinct in the human would most likely overpower what the yeerk tried to do.
-
Interesting point Faeria, I wonder what kind of control Yeerks have over the body's instincts?
-
I don't think the yeerk would be able to handle it. I was forced to don't drink for some days one time and ended up attacking my family and the doctors before I went too weak. I can't imagine that a yeerk could bring such strong wills down. That was pure sick desperation, more than when the Chapmans had to do when Visser3 wanted Melissa.
-
Exactly. It kind of reminds me of an episode of Doctor Who. Without going too much into the plot, an alien race tried to override the human brain and have various humans jump off a building. The instinct to survive, however, was too strong.
I think instincts are so deeply ingrained into humans humans that it is very nearly impossible, if not entirely, to shut that down.
-
Why were you kept for drinking, if you'll excuse off topicness?
-
Because of a surgical operation they needed to do on me...
Back to topic now... please
-
I'm pretty well convinced, so I guess there isn't much left to discuss. Trying it wouldn't work, especially since he didn't even start out doing it.
-
I kind of wonder why he didn't do more to ruin Jake though, I mean he could have trapped Jake as a fly when he knew he was going down too, he might even have thought doing so would save his life, there was a Yeerk in one of the last books that begged to be allowed to become a nothlit (Then got killed) so its clear that at least that Yeerk wasn't totally sure whether or not he could evade starvation that way, it seems odd that Jake's head buddy didn't even consider it. And what would the others have done if he said "I may not get far as a fly, but unless you get me to a yeerk pool in two hours Jake here won't get to be anything but a fly, bwahaha!"
-
I kind of wonder why he didn't do more to ruin Jake though, I mean he could have trapped Jake as a fly when he knew he was going down too, he might even have thought doing so would save his life, there was a Yeerk in one of the last books that begged to be allowed to become a nothlit (Then got killed) so its clear that at least that Yeerk wasn't totally sure whether or not he could evade starvation that way, it seems odd that Jake's head buddy didn't even consider it.
well it's never actually confirmed, but it's believed that the yeerk in book 52 was a morph-capable yeerk, not a yeerk inside a morph-capable human.
-
It wasn't confirmed if Rachel killed it either.
Morphing a fly and threatening to force Jake to become a nothlit is a much more practical thing to do. Good thing he didn't try that either!
-
Hmm, I wasn't aware of the morph-capable Yeerk theory, even so I'm surprised the Yeerk in Jake's head, for all his alleged intellect was so determined not to ruin his host that taking him down with him or at least threatening to, never occured to him. Maybe he thought he'd be rescued even to the end, maybe he just figured the Animorphs wouldn't be swayed by such a threat since no Yeerk would.
Or maybe he was just so scared, alone and afraid. Maybe he didn't wish Jake any ill will since he was dying. Maybe in the end we're not so different after all . . . all just frightened little creatures who want nothing more or less than our freedom and prosperity even at the expense of others and--HAH, you're a fly forever now Jake, take that! You won't be a thorn in Visser Three's side anymore!
-
I'm actually more dissatisfied that Jake didn't try harder to make the others know what happened to him
-
There are very few cases of hosts breaking free of Yeerk control, even for a moment. And even then, it's only in the most desperate circumstances that it happens. If it wasn't almost impossible to do it, then the Yeerks wouldn't be able to keep the secret very well.
-
I think the Yeerks think differently than us. Their incentives for doing things are largely for their own gain. I mean, they're society is built like that! Maximize your own utility at the expense of others. I mean, they're naturally born to do that. A little different than our society.
As for instincts and all that. Yeah, human will is too strong to kill. ...that's why you help it kill itself. Surprisingly what your body can do to itself when it simply doesn't have a will to live anymore.
-
There are very few cases of hosts breaking free of Yeerk control, even for a moment. And even then, it's only in the most desperate circumstances that it happens. If it wasn't almost impossible to do it, then the Yeerks wouldn't be able to keep the secret very well.
That wasn't really what I ment. Jake knew that it could happen but he didn't evev try.
-
How can you say he didn't try? He clearly wanted to tell Cassie and the others that something was wrong.
-
... Maybe I need to read this one again, I can't remember what you are telling me.
-
I wanted to tell them both. To scream "They have me! They are inside me!" But I couldn't make
my mouth move. It was like there was a roadblock. Like I could form the thoughts, give the
order to my lips and tongue to speak, but the order never got there.
-
I think Mira meant that he wasn't trying very hard. Upon this reread, I was actually kind of struck with the fact that Jake was sort of like "...oh. Well, I sure hope my friends figure it out. This is sort of strange. Hmm. I can't move my arms. Hmm."
-
I don't know. I guess it is true that he just kind of sat in his own heads, hoping to be rescued. Like a damsel in distress or something. This may qualify as an out of character moment.
-
I do remember thins quote. But it's true, I don't think he tried very hard, he could at least have tried to warn Rachel, that would have satisfied me, and that (I think) was a such moment when it could have worked. And maybe tell them to listed to Ax but that is less important to me
-
Yeah, that point where he thought Rachel was asleep, and maybe Temrash would have killed her. That would have been a good place to have a break through.
-
I think Yeerks are more ambitious and selfish than humans are and generally won't do anything unless they can benefit from it. Yeerks are parasites and rely on hosts, and it is unlikely that a parasite would evolve to deliberately kill its host. Which is probably why the Yeerk did not try to kill Rachel or any of the others because he wanted 5 morph capable hosts to bring back.