Richard's Animorphs Forum

Animorphs Section => Animorphs Forum Classic => Topic started by: Ash on March 22, 2009, 09:21:16 AM

Title: Thoughts in the End
Post by: Ash on March 22, 2009, 09:21:16 AM
Major Spoilers ahead in the thread

 Okay.. I finished the series today, almost 7 years after holding the first book. No, I'm not a very slow reader, I just didn't have the guts the read the ending - nobody I knew thought it was anywhere near satisfying. And I didn't want to end my favourite series with a sour taste in my mouth. Well, I've got that sour taste now..

 This thread isn't just to discuss the final book, but all the things that lead to the end - the all out war, RACHEL, the things Jake did, how we feel about the Chee at the end..

 Was -anyone- satisfied? I personally was okay with the whole 'Ram the blade ship' ending - I figured I didn't want it to end with the Animorphs installed in some comfy pad with tonnes of cash. But the stuff before it.. nah, not happy.

Your thoughts?
Title: Re: Thoughts in the End
Post by: Chad32 on March 22, 2009, 09:26:58 AM
Yes some people on this board are very satisfied with the ending. We have other threads about the ending. I'm not satisfied, but people like chimichanga and morfowt are.
Title: Re: Thoughts in the End
Post by: Ash on March 22, 2009, 09:30:28 AM
WHAT happens to Ax?  ???
Title: Re: Thoughts in the End
Post by: Brad the Brit on March 22, 2009, 09:34:34 AM
it depends on how you see it. in some cases realisticaly that was the only way it could finish.
the cliffhangers even give the ending more depth.
it was a story about war and in war their can never truly be a happy ending
Title: Re: Thoughts in the End
Post by: Chad32 on March 22, 2009, 09:37:20 AM
We'll never know. She left it up to fanfic writers to decide. If I actually had the talent to finish a fanfic, I'd rewrite the ending itsself. No One, no assimilation, no death of Rachel or Tom, ect.

People seemed pretty happy after WW2 was over. Hence the baby boom.
Title: Re: Thoughts in the End
Post by: Brad the Brit on March 22, 2009, 11:05:00 AM
thats because it was a world war not an intergalactic one
Title: Re: Thoughts in the End
Post by: ThinkAgain on March 22, 2009, 11:19:22 AM
Yeah, people not in the war were happy, and those who came out wanted to be, but some just couldn't be.

Cassie and Jake's relationship was formed during the tension of fighting, and without that, it just fell apart. In real life, relationships based on surviving horrible events hardly ever last, despite what Hollywood tells you.

Tobias had no one. No real family, no real friends. Jake and Tobias respected each other, but were not necessarily friends. Same deal with Marco, but farther apart. Cassie and Tobias were never really close, and Ax isn't human (although still a good friend). Then there was Rachel, the only human he was trusting with and was truly close to, and then she was torn from him. As Jake's initial goal was to free Tom, Tobias' evolved to live peacefully near Rachel, although it wasn't stated outright. When that one person, one dream, was torn from him, he collapsed, and that makes sense.

Jake was just your average kid, but forced to make horrible choices, but as much as he hated them, those choices made him who he was. Without the war, he was nothing, is nothing. Without the fight, he wasn't himself. His persona is based on leading through a war, he grew up that way. Without it, he's just a shell, which lead to how he ended up, but that's also why he was secretly excited for the space mission in the end. In reality, he was just as dependant on fighting as Rachel, just more controlled.

Rachel was thoroughly and fully dependant on war. She needed the fight, it literally was who she was. After seeing that darker side of herself, that bloodlust, she simply would not be capable of returning to normal society. She knew this. Even if Jake hadn't told her to do that mission, she would've done something suicidal on her own. It only makes sense she would die with the war, because without the war, she was nothing.

Marco... he's just cold, utilitarian logic with a funny mask. He always knew what had to be done and knew he had to do it. He knew ending 15 lives to save 50,000 is what needs to be done, despite how wrong it feels. The funny mask aspect, however, is what saw him through. He always claimed to hate the war, but that's not entirely true. He's a master strategist, that simple. He doesn't need the combat and blood, but he knows he breaks down if he has to lead the simple life, after feeling that part of him. That's why he lives successfully after the war, but is immensely bored and empty, and why he agrees to go with Jake and Tobias.

Cassie truly hated every aspect of the war. She wanted no part of it, but only fought to protect what she loved and to try to stop evil. Her main conflict was the feeling of hypocrisy; killing to stop killers, subjecting others to what she wants to escape, etc. After the war, she no longer had to worry about that, and is the only one who is truly happy with the peace. She lives as a vet and communicator with other species, it's exactly what she wanted from the start without lying to herself. That's why Jake doesn't have her go along. He knows, while she's a key member of the team, she is truly happy now, and doesn't want to make her suffer for him. He knows another fight would bring them together, but its not worth it to him to see her sad again.

Ax was lost. He wouldn't die during the fight, there was no real reason for him to do so. He was an enigma, however because he had no people. He was an Andalite by blood, but he became who he was through humans, but he is not human. His actions would have definitely given him prestige amongst his people, but he would feel empty doing so without the Animorphs, which is one reason why he careless risks his life without second thought to board the suspicious ship, and why his final word was "Jake". It's only sensible that the enigma character has an indeterminable fate.
Title: Re: Thoughts in the End
Post by: CDJV on March 22, 2009, 11:26:07 AM
I didn't like Rachels death. I know, it was the only thing she had left do to, but seriously: Think of Tobias. I know wars are terrible, depressing things, but can't that kid catch a break?
Title: Re: Thoughts in the End
Post by: Chad32 on March 22, 2009, 11:33:27 AM
I don't buy all that stuff about Rachel, and the way the ghostwriters portrayed her. There were things like fighting the terrorists that she could have done after the war. Jake was in worse shape than her. That mission didn't even start out as a suicidal one. It just became that way after what Erik did.

Tobias had his mother and Ax to fall back on. If Elfangor could spend two decades on Earth, and still return to his people and have a good time, then Ax certainly could after spending three years.

I just don't buy any of it. Cassie was the only one who wound up truly happy, which just makes things more bitter after betraying and leaving Jake. Because he wasn't "her Jake" anymore.It was a horrible tragic ending that I will never understand.
Title: Re: Thoughts in the End
Post by: Brad the Brit on March 22, 2009, 12:31:35 PM
Rachel was portrayed as a terroist towards the end where as at the start she as portrayed as your average dumb cheerleader. The change could be because of the natural change of the character because of the war, or because of the ghost writer messing up the character. In either case at the end of the book Kate was right to kill her off. Because the book needed an unhappy ending.
Rachel was the right choice for this as she was starting to enjoy war too much. Although it is extremley sad it would have been nise if Tobias had had a happy ending. Throghout the series the bird boy nerver achieved any happiness.

Ax going missing was also a good idea as it opened up so many avenues for fanfiction.

lol but thats just my ideas  ;D
Title: Re: Thoughts in the End
Post by: Chad32 on March 22, 2009, 02:09:38 PM
Rachel didn't enjoy the war. She enjoyed fighting evil and doing her duty as a hero. She wasn't a terrorist. And why would a war story need an unhappy ending? Why would any story need an unhappy ending, unless it was a horror story, or a nonfiction story that happened badly?

It doesn't make sense to me. It never will.
Title: Re: Thoughts in the End
Post by: ThinkAgain on March 22, 2009, 02:12:48 PM
Nothing can make clear perfect sense to everyone, I guess.
In my mind, I see how a horrible war filled with suffering wouldn't end happy, seeing things like Vietnam vets and such.
Title: Re: Thoughts in the End
Post by: Chad32 on March 22, 2009, 02:14:29 PM
Vietnam is a poor example of a good war. That's why I mentioned WWII.
Title: Re: Thoughts in the End
Post by: Brad the Brit on March 22, 2009, 02:16:10 PM
yer thats what i ment think. at the end it couldent have been a happy ending. thay had done and seen to many things. and you also have to remember they where only around 14-16. could you have done the stuff they did at their age.
Title: Re: Thoughts in the End
Post by: Chad32 on March 22, 2009, 02:53:46 PM
In some way I wonder if Marco and Cassie couldn't get together. They were both based off of the married co-authors. Why some stanger named Ron?

Weird question, yes. Probably not worth a whole lot of thought.
Title: Re: Thoughts in the End
Post by: Azguard on March 22, 2009, 02:57:25 PM
I don't believe that stuff about being completely destroyed by war. In the least, not completely. Vastly affected, yes. But not completely.

However, I like what you said Think, about how twisted everything is. Jake liked the war. He liked Cassie. However, as much as bringing them together would be great, he liked Cassie more than he craved being together.

The reason so many people hate the ending is because it relates to real life. People read these things to escape and be fascinated, not to be reminded of what reality is like.

The ending is like the end of high school, where you knew nothing would EVER be the same. And no matter how many times you come back together and try to relive those memories you can't. You become trapped in an ever more glorious past. That's why its so sad about the Animorphs. Without the war, they were just inclined to stick to memories. And when the opportunity came to relive those memories (even though it wouldn't be the same), they wanted to.

As far as relationships that are created under tension I think I understand. I had a semi-relationship with someone who I was told not to have one with, and that was all our relationship was based on. Once the rules were gone, it was no fun anymore!
Title: Re: Thoughts in the End
Post by: Ash on March 22, 2009, 11:56:41 PM
All of what you've said makes sense Think. But you know the last line? It was a fiction series. It wasn't always true to how the world works. Why is it that in the end, she had to be so damn true to how war works out? Sure, let them end fighting, let them end locked in a deadly struggle as always, but for heaven's sake, let them be doing it as they always did - together. It didn't end with 5, it ended with 3!

Bah, I know.. I'm being irrational. I just feel she could've given a teensy less bit of painful ending. And killed Marco instead :P
Title: Re: Thoughts in the End
Post by: Azguard on March 22, 2009, 11:58:28 PM
or......Cassie,,,,
Title: Re: Thoughts in the End
Post by: Brad the Brit on March 23, 2009, 05:57:50 AM
nnooooooo marco and cassie it wouldent have been so bad. the group could have eventualy got over it.

by killing of rachal applegate essencialy cut off tobias from any hope of a normal life.
but what i would have changed is id tobias and rachal had died togeather. sorry its mushy but it would have made the ending better i think.

Title: Re: Thoughts in the End
Post by: Chad32 on March 23, 2009, 09:20:58 AM
If she wanted to essentially end Tobias' life, then why not just kill him off? First and last casualty of the war, so to speak. Or kill off Cassie for the sake of irony. Cassie dies because of the decision she made in book 50. That's pretty ironic.
Title: Re: Thoughts in the End
Post by: Azguard on March 23, 2009, 09:41:28 AM
yeah. Jake doesn't need her.
Title: Re: Thoughts in the End
Post by: Brad the Brit on March 23, 2009, 09:44:24 AM
 jake went into a depression after the trial... if he was still with cassie whould she have let that happen?
yeah. Jake doesn't need her.
jake went into a depression after the trial... if he was still with cassie whould she have let that happen?
Title: Re: Thoughts in the End
Post by: Chad32 on March 23, 2009, 09:55:47 AM
She's the one that left him, remember. She left him because he changed, but how could he not have changed. They all changed.

She betrayed him, then she left him. I feel for him that he still cares for her, though. I think she probably still cared for him too. It's a little sad, but she's the one to blame for not being there for him. If she had died, it wouldn't have been very different. Jake would still be depressed, and Cassie would still be absent from the Ax rescue mission.
Title: Re: Thoughts in the End
Post by: Brad the Brit on March 23, 2009, 09:58:22 AM
i can find no flaw in that logic.. how annoying ;D
Title: Re: Thoughts in the End
Post by: Chad32 on March 23, 2009, 10:03:26 AM
AHA!! MUAHAHAHAHAHA!!

I wons a argument! *runs away in triumph*
Title: Re: Thoughts in the End
Post by: Ash on March 23, 2009, 11:59:09 AM
Man, I love that theory. Im gonna do some memory modification and stick with Cassie dying. Even KA should be happy cuz there's enough irony there.  She has effectively killed off Tobias, Ax and Cassie anyway. As long as they weren't there in the end during the last battle, they weren't 'alive' at all to me. And Tobias was always my favourite, just before Ax :(
Title: Re: Thoughts in the End
Post by: Brad the Brit on March 23, 2009, 12:03:14 PM
Tobias is also my favorite animorph cuz he reacts exactley like i would in that situation...
Title: Re: Thoughts in the End
Post by: Azguard on March 23, 2009, 12:07:45 PM
how could cassie do that? the only reason i can see is because she was hurt herself, and decided to launch a pre-emptive strike. though that seems more like a guy thing to do.
Title: Re: Thoughts in the End
Post by: Chad32 on March 23, 2009, 12:38:15 PM
I'm not sure how Cassie would die. I'm just saying it would be ironic if she died similarly to Rachel, given that Rachel's death is partly because of her. So her dying due to her decision to let Tom's yeerk get away would be ironic.
Title: Re: Thoughts in the End
Post by: ThinkAgain on March 23, 2009, 06:14:19 PM
I don't think Cassie would have been able to outright kill Tom though. She'd flinch, and she'd be killed instantly, and her battle morph is a fraction the size of Rachel's. I still think Rachel was the best choice to die based on what I said before. I say most people here want Cassie to have been the one because she's the least liked in general.
Everyone just wanted to have seen Tobias happy in his meadow with Rachel, Jake and Cassie married, and Marco living the good life.

It doesn't happen that way when you put teenagers through a world-shattering war. It's not a "good" war like WWII, it was a vicious moral battle all along the way. (Even WWII was horrible for a lot of people in it) I will say the end did not satisfy me, but only based on the fact it was short, had a lack of detail, and had a rushed feel to it. It was well planned however, and I don't flat out disagree with it. I would have liked a little less of a cliffhanger, though.

There's a million other fiction books out there that end in a sappy and happy ending. That's why I like Animorphs, it's fairly close to what real people would do in thost situations.

Just my  :2cents:
Title: Re: Thoughts in the End
Post by: Brad the Brit on March 23, 2009, 06:16:21 PM
hi think... and yer cassie would have failed epicaly  :owned:
Title: Re: Thoughts in the End
Post by: Ash on March 24, 2009, 06:29:32 AM
If thats what would've happened, I'd have been internally puking through it. I didn't want that much of a sappy ending. I guess moaning and whingeing about it (the unfairness of it all!  :P) ain't gonna change a thing.. but its fun to let it out. I was choking up a bit.

How would you guys have left the Animorphs in the end? I specially wanna know your version, Think.
Title: Re: Thoughts in the End
Post by: Chad32 on March 24, 2009, 09:54:57 AM
Rachel lives, and gets involved with fighting the terrorists. She marries Tobias, who becomes a Human nothlit and lives with his mother. He gets employed as a pilot, and Marco buys him some private aircraft. Marco and Ax's endings I wouldn't change much, except that Marco doesn't become too bored and Ax doesn't get assimilated. Also the bladeship doesn't get the cube, so Ax's duty is just to help keep the area around Earth secure.

Tom lives, and teases Jake like a big brother would for waiting three years to rescue the guy. Jake gets a little depressed, but Rachel makes him and Cassie promise to not burn bridges between each other. Cassie becomes a zoologist. Toby takes her people to their homeworld to help the current resistance. Jake and Cassie are still friends, but I leave their future kind of iffy. They may marry, and they may not.

The Chapmans are finally able to tell Mellissa the truth, and they go on a bonding trip to celebrate freedom. Nora and Peter get divorced, but she remains a friend of the family.

The Auxilaries do different things, as most of them lived. From helping fight the terrorists, to just living "normal" lives. The YPM go to their homeworld to start a resistance there.

No One. Oh, and Visser Three gets beaten by Ax in a climactic battle, so that Ax is able to avenge his brother. Though Alloran still lives, and plays a big role in Rachel's rescue. He has codes that enable him to shut down the bladeship, and pull it into the pool ship with a tractor beam. Then they are able to convince the Yeerks on board to free Tom, Rachel, and all the involuntaries. As well as hand over the box.

I think that's all the major points.
Title: Re: Thoughts in the End
Post by: Hylian Dan on March 24, 2009, 12:21:24 PM
Quote from: Nohensen
I think that's all the major points.

And I think all the Animorphs would agree with you that that's they ending they wanted the whole time.

Quote
She betrayed him, then she left him. I feel for him that he still cares for her, though. I think she probably still cared for him too. It's a little sad, but she's the one to blame for not being there for him. If she had died, it wouldn't have been very different. Jake would still be depressed, and Cassie would still be absent from the Ax rescue mission.

I see this very differently, but I'll go into that later.

Quote
In some way I wonder if Marco and Cassie couldn't get together. They were both based off of the married co-authors. Why some stanger named Ron?


KA and Michael see similarities between themselves and those two, but the characters aren't based on themselves. I've never gotten the sense that they're that narcissistic.

Quote
Vietnam is a poor example of a good war. That's why I mentioned WWII.

Most wars aren't like WWII. We like to organize shades of grey into black and white categories and see things in terms of good vs. evil, and WWII lends itself to that very very easily.

Quote
It was a fiction series. It wasn't always true to how the world works. Why is it that in the end, she had to be so damn true to how war works out?

Because that's how she had been writing the series all along, and that's what we had gotten ourselves into. Animorphs was always intended to be more than mindless entertainment. (Heck, look at how much the story emphasized the significance of a person/animal/alien's brain.) It would be like the Magic School Bus series abandoning scientific inquiry for pointless entertainment.

Quote from: Azguard
The ending is like the end of high school, where you knew nothing would EVER be the same. And no matter how many times you come back together and try to relive those memories you can't. You become trapped in an ever more glorious past.

Good example. I agree.


Title: Re: Thoughts in the End
Post by: Chad32 on March 24, 2009, 12:57:38 PM
Quote
It would be like the Magic School Bus series abandoning scientific inquiry for pointless entertainment.

That's a good point. Except I never felt like she was trying to shove it down my throat during the series. I could take it or leave it. The last book did feel like that, though. There were a lot of things that just couldn't be overlooked if I wasn't really interested in finding a deeper meaning.
Title: Re: Thoughts in the End
Post by: Hylian Dan on March 24, 2009, 03:18:22 PM
That's a good point. Except I never felt like she was trying to shove it down my throat during the series. I could take it or leave it. The last book did feel like that, though. There were a lot of things that just couldn't be overlooked if I wasn't really interested in finding a deeper meaning.

They were really really fun books. When I bring up Animorphs, people say things like, "Oh, Animorphs! That was such a happy time in my life." The books were a huge source of joy each month, so the ending really hurt.

I'd say the ending had been set up really well throughout the series. The David trilogy and the Chronicles in particular were excellent for setting up the final books. After the way they were told, the main story would have to darken towards the end. There would have to be horrifying losses and extremely complex and ambiguous moral decisions at the climax of the Animorphs story. The set up was in place, but we had been following this story every month for five years. It was hard to accept when the Animorphs story became as tragic as the Andalite and Hork-Bajir Chronicles.
Title: Re: Thoughts in the End
Post by: Chad32 on March 24, 2009, 04:00:21 PM
Quote
She betrayed him, then she left him. I feel for him that he still cares for her, though. I think she probably still cared for him too. It's a little sad, but she's the one to blame for not being there for him. If she had died, it wouldn't have been very different. Jake would still be depressed, and Cassie would still be absent from the Ax rescue mission.

Quote
I see this very differently, but I'll go into that later.

So let's talk about this. I realise people may see things differently, just based of the fact that not everyone feels Cassie really betrayed Jake in book 50. Also that letting Tom get away had more of an impact on saving the world than I believe it did.
Title: Re: Thoughts in the End
Post by: Azguard on March 24, 2009, 05:08:04 PM
I agree Hylian Dan. While other things could have ended bad, we always believed that the series itself, our Animorphs, would come out victorious guns blazing, no casualties. It just became the Twilight Zone when we realized that no, we can't escape reality, and this series will end like the Chronicles. Sad also because it was the final say and final book. Again, like an eerie inescapable heartbreaking gray world. SO depressing!

 I actually hadn't read the last few books in the series, so I need to! I feel like I'm missing pieces.

 Another sad thing is this. The Animorphs themselves, despite fighting against crazy odds and they knew it, believed that one day the war would end, and they would be able to return to normal. Well...the war ended. But they didn't realize the impact of it. And I disliked passionately that the Animorphs were robbed of everything, that even though they won, they still lost more than any victory would have gained. It was like Fate punching them in the face and laughing. It was like a lose-lose situation as soon as they accepted to become the Animorphs. But they didn't know it.
Title: Re: Thoughts in the End
Post by: Kelly on March 24, 2009, 05:28:12 PM
well...I've made it pretty clear a few times that I was upset about Cassie and Jake breaking up.  :-\
Title: Re: Thoughts in the End
Post by: ThinkAgain on March 24, 2009, 07:58:48 PM
Honestly, and I'm telling the truth here, I was expecting Rachel to die for a while. Not just because she loves fighting so much she will die doing something stupid; that doesn't contribute to the suspense of the literature. For instance, if Rachel died by randomly being shot by a stray Dracon while flying in eagle morph, it would have been useless and stupid, even though it is actually very realistic and possible. But no, I honestly saw her dying in the war; it seemed to be hinted at in small ways for quite a while. While I was not surprised she was the final casualty, I was still upset nonetheless. If was writing the book, and I was going for the realistic non-sappy ending, I would have done the same thing. Jake can't die, Ax was needed to work on the pool ship, Cassie was too weak, Marco was the key planner and Jake would not let him easily go, and Jake always felt indebted to Tobias ever since the incident were he was captured, and would avoid harm to him at all costs. That leaves Rachel, who gave herself the title of the one who will do anything, even if she didn't feel that way inside. She was the only choice.

I clearly see why Tobias reacted the way he did, and I won't repeat myself because I already said this before in a previous post. When his last tie to humanity was severed, he gave up on it.

Marco did what he would have. Remember, he's the master strategist. He sees moping around would be useless when so much profit could be made. While he is empty inside, he doesn't show it because it doesn't take him the fastest path from A to B. That hidden emptiness, however, is what lets him give up his success so quickly to join Jake.

Ax is the only character's fate I would change slightly. I see him being more depressed than he was in the book. He is Andalite, but he is human inside. Remember, he was only like 13 or 14 by our standards when he started, and still highly impressionable. When he returned to his people, he would be lost. Living just amongst humans would too leave him at loss. I do see him becoming incredibly reckless. His deeds would obviously grant him enormous increases in rank, and I see him making very dangerous choices in bad situations - much like he did. I don't like the assimilation idea though. I would rather him clearly fighting. Even if his fate would still be unknown, I'd want to see more than him simply getting sucked into some random entity. I'd also have Ellimist say something at the end, not to reveal too much, just to have some final statements. I'd still want them to be plunged into a new war, but more clearly. If they are all dead, they can't have a new war, so make the benefit of the doubt a little better.

I see Jake being depressed; the relationship with Cassie was doomed to fail, and this would cause him pain. Also, the war criminal accusations hit him in the heart, because he regretted so many of his actions so much. Flushing the pool ship, bombing the Yeerk pool, subjecting cripples and disabled children to war and death, dooming hundreds of soldiers, he knows that if the Yeerks had done the reciprocal, they would be charged as war criminals, and this makes him feel horrible. Between that and he overall feeling of uselessness post-war, I see him as the sad sack he became, and jumping at the gun to the mission to try to have life return to normal. Return to normal... that's probably the biggest irony of all.

Title: Re: Thoughts in the End
Post by: Brad the Brit on March 24, 2009, 08:06:16 PM
((Return to normal... that's probably the biggest irony of all.))

that pretty much sums up the last book.
 think i agree with all of your points exept one. tobanis blamed jake for rachals death sure. but i think he knew why the desison was made and he may even have started to come to terms with it by the time they when to save ax (if only slightley)
Title: Re: Thoughts in the End
Post by: ThinkAgain on March 24, 2009, 08:23:35 PM
That's not what I said Brad.

I do see Tobias EVENTUALLY coming to terms with Jake, understanding it was the right thing to do.

It's just that Rachel was Tobias' last tie to humanity. When that tie was severed, Tobias was lost. Without her, he had no connections to humans in general. He lost purpose. As a hawk, Rachel kept him human. As a hawk, fighting the war gave him purpose. Without the war, his hawk is useless, and without Rachel, his trying to be human is useless. Drowning in all that uselessness, he simply retreats and tries to forget.
Title: Re: Thoughts in the End
Post by: Brad the Brit on March 24, 2009, 08:26:41 PM
ahhhh sorry i must have read it wrong. i totaly agree with you then
Title: Re: Thoughts in the End
Post by: Chad32 on March 24, 2009, 08:48:53 PM
So his mother is just meaningless. Man, why bring the woman back if you're not going to do squat with her?
Title: Re: Thoughts in the End
Post by: ThinkAgain on March 24, 2009, 09:00:53 PM
He originally did not know she had amnesia. By the time he found out, it was too late to abandon her. Also, Tobias was so desperate for a loving parent, he was willing to grasp at any wisp of hope, no matter how small.
Title: Re: Thoughts in the End
Post by: Chad32 on March 24, 2009, 09:34:22 PM
He originally did not know she had amnesia. By the time he found out, it was too late to abandon her. Also, Tobias was so desperate for a loving parent, he was willing to grasp at any wisp of hope, no matter how small.

Why even have him find her again. Why even mention her again in the series?
Title: Re: Thoughts in the End
Post by: ThinkAgain on March 24, 2009, 09:36:21 PM
To put a different source of tension in Tobias' life, as well as answering some of his questions.
Title: Re: Thoughts in the End
Post by: Hylian Dan on March 24, 2009, 09:49:10 PM
Why even have him find her again. Why even mention her again in the series?
To tie up a loose thread. To add emphasis to Jake's loss of his parents. To make a point about parents' willingness to sacrifice themselves for their children, even if the relationship between them has been strained or nonexistent. And to nudge the Animorphs so that they'd be willing to pass on the morphing technology to others after the David mess.
Title: Re: Thoughts in the End
Post by: Chad32 on March 25, 2009, 01:07:09 PM
So what are the thoughts on how the Yeerks found the Valley in the final arc? I always figured if a Free Hork was taken, then his memory of how to get back would be erased. Are you saying it really took two years for just one Free Hork to be recaptured? Do you think that's realistic? Or do you wish the Valley would always be a sanctuary?
Title: Re: Thoughts in the End
Post by: ThinkAgain on March 25, 2009, 04:23:10 PM
I always saw it was inevitable. I just don't see how a random valley hidden by the Ellimist was found, and some random camp wasn't. I'm sure active searching wasn't stopped, so they should've been found relatively quickly.
Title: Re: Thoughts in the End
Post by: Brad the Brit on March 25, 2009, 04:31:23 PM
i was suprised the whole series whent by without the yeerks finding ax's scoop...
Title: Re: Thoughts in the End
Post by: ThinkAgain on March 25, 2009, 04:54:30 PM
Ax's scoop is said to be small and well hidden, all of its electronics hidden from detection, and the roof is collapseable to make it look like it isn't there. They do that whenever they leave.
Title: Re: Thoughts in the End
Post by: Ash on March 28, 2009, 10:04:16 AM
Ah. Didn't think about that one.

I wish KA had mentioned more about the Animorphs parents' endings. Something about Nora too. Did anyone here like her?
Title: Re: Thoughts in the End
Post by: Chad32 on March 28, 2009, 03:03:58 PM
I was neutral. I didn't dislike her, but I didn't root for her either. I would have liked to hear what Jake's parents thought of everything, especially since KA decided to kill Tom off. We got a good idea of Cassie's parents and Rachel's mother. Nothing from her Dad at all.
Title: Re: Thoughts in the End
Post by: KOFSoldier on March 28, 2009, 06:24:00 PM
I'd love to see how Rachel's mother's relationship with Jake is. I wish that was at least hinted at. Also, we didn't hear anything about Sarah and Jordan (Rachel's sisters) at all.
Title: Re: Thoughts in the End
Post by: senter.pat on April 05, 2009, 07:07:41 PM
it depends on how you see it. in some cases realisticaly that was the only way it could finish.
the cliffhangers even give the ending more depth.
it was a story about war and in war their can never truly be a happy ending

War can have a happy ending. Look at LOTR three movies all about war and then a happy ending. All the good war movies, brave heart, gladiator, have happy endings. in their own way. Personally i didnt like the ending because of what it was, the last i would hear of the animorphs.
Title: Re: Thoughts in the End
Post by: Jadedkoi on April 10, 2009, 11:21:57 PM
I don't think Cassie would have been able to outright kill Tom though. She'd flinch, and she'd be killed instantly, and her battle morph is a fraction the size of Rachel's. I still think Rachel was the best choice to die based on what I said before. I say most people here want Cassie to have been the one because she's the least liked in general.
Everyone just wanted to have seen Tobias happy in his meadow with Rachel, Jake and Cassie married, and Marco living the good life.

It doesn't happen that way when you put teenagers through a world-shattering war. It's not a "good" war like WWII, it was a vicious moral battle all along the way. (Even WWII was horrible for a lot of people in it) I will say the end did not satisfy me, but only based on the fact it was short, had a lack of detail, and had a rushed feel to it. It was well planned however, and I don't flat out disagree with it. I would have liked a little less of a cliffhanger, though.

There's a million other fiction books out there that end in a sappy and happy ending. That's why I like Animorphs, it's fairly close to what real people would do in thost situations.

Just my  :2cents:

Absolute Truth.

When I first read this ending I was either twelve or just barely thirteen, and I hated every book after they bailed to the camp. I was only kinda-maybe following the series out of "i've read over forty of these things" fan loyalty- I'd gone on to bigger and better (*ahem*WoT) books.

I went back and read the ebooks a few months ago and I have to say that I came away with a whole new appreciation of the series. I went in expecting to be wincing the whole way through and I discovered a lot of groan-inducing bad (briefly considered flying across the country to my mom's house just to burn my old copy of book 9 with evil hellfire) but a whole lot of "jesus-****-christ" awesome as well. If these things had been originally written for, say, the 18-24 crowd the series would have been mind-blowing.

However the awesomeness of this series has a lot to do with the fact that **** does **** up. I extraordinarily love the fact that things FUBAR completely at the end, because it's in keeping with the series. They got away with incredible odds that tipped the believability scale (fiction believability, anyway...) but when all hell broke loose into actual warfare they clung on and got their asses handed to them even with a very ambitious plan that used every ounce of luck they had.

And that, right there, was the epitome of the end- that ****ed-up of an ending? that was the best they could swing. They won, and that was the happiest ending they were gonna have.

And it's awesome.