Richard's Animorphs Forum
Animorphs Section => Animorphs Forum Classic => Topic started by: dolphin4077 on February 07, 2009, 01:32:08 PM
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I was reading the favorite Animorph thread, and I agree with most people that Cassie isn't my favorite. I'm not anti-Cassie, but there are aspects about her (or the portrayal of her) that seriously annoy me. My biggest complaint is that she is never wrong. I can think of plenty of times the other characters screwed up. With Cassie every action she does always ends up being vindicated, even (especially) letting the blue box go.
Can anyone think of anytime she was wrong?
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Holy crud, you're right! She has never been wrong (in any of her own books, at least).
[spoiler]4-She helped find Ax (vindicated!)
9-She nearly got stuck in morph to help skunks, but by the end of the books, all the Animorphs were helping her help those same skunks (vindicated!)
14-She doesn't really do anything here where she might be considered for vindication. But hey, if you count messing up military time as being wrong, she was wrong once in this book! But . . . no, that doesn't really count, does it?
19-She helped a Yeerk, who ended up turning into a good guy (vindicated!)
24-No big victories here
29-That Yeerk she helped in 19? Yeah, she helped save Ax's life (vindicated!)
34-Here, there were a lot of little things, like going against Aldrea's wishes when morphing away her wings when she was a falling from the sky as a humpback whale. But I'm pretty sure she ended up being right every time (vindicated!)
39-Cassie believes the Animorphs shouldn't kill the buffa-human. And what do you know, it ends up being helpful to their cause! (vindicated!)
44-Another one like 34, where she ended up being right several times in different ways (vindicated!)
50-Hands over the blue box, which makes a few Yeerks defect (vindicated, at least until Rachel gets killed by a freaking polar bear)[/spoiler]
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Maybe it wasn't too clever to morph that skunk and fall asleep...
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Maybe it wasn't too clever to morph that skunk and fall asleep...
Ha, that was the one time she screwed up, and big time. But they are always talking about how she's the best morpher and "always knows what to say to calm everyone down."
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By the way. Is Cassie a vegetarian or not?
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Maybe it wasn't too clever to morph that skunk and fall asleep...
Ha, that was the one time she screwed up, and big time. But they are always talking about how she's the best morpher and "always knows what to say to calm everyone down."
The thing is, though, that even when she screws up, it all ends up okay in the end. Everyone forgives her and helps save the skunks.
I consider her giving away the blue box to be a major screw-up on her part, as well. Seeing as she obviously wasn't thinking about Yeerks who might defect when she let that happen, at the time she was only thinking about Jake's conscience if he had to kill Tom. So maybe she did the right thing, but for the wrong reason. Or maybe she did the wrong thing, and it, once again, simply all turned out okay in the end.
As for Cassie being a vegetarian, no mention of that has ever been made in the books, I don't think.
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That's true. Cassie is always the little angel, who has a strangely strong concience.
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giving the box away was wrong. A few defected Yeerks does not justify indirectly getting Tom and Rachel killed, and the Yeerks escaping with it on their way to find The One.
It is annoying that all the times she screwed up, there seems to be something that vindicates it. I don't remember much hinting that Cassie is all that special in the beginning of the series, but later it really shows.
But the box? No. Just no. She didn't have to do it. She wasn't thinking of Yeerks defecting when she did it. The cons outweigh the pros. The icing on the cake is when Jake accidentally excludes her from the group, and Tobias calls it beyond wrong. I would have done it on purpose, and told Tobias to bugger off.
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So Cassie is perfect, except for the box. Wow. That is wrong. We should tell KA.
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By the way. Is Cassie a vegetarian or not?
Yeah, she is.
In the book where she morphed wolf for the first time (I forgot which one it was), she smelled bacon on Rachel's breath and said something along the lines of "Rachel, did you have bacon for breakfast? I thought we were quitting meat!".
And, of course, Marco had some witty remark to make about it (that I cant remember at the moment).
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It was book #3, and what she said was, 'I thought you were going to go vegetarian'. So yeah, still doesn't answer whether Cassie is or not.
Although you know, knowing Cassie's pacifism and moralizing, I'm surprised she didn't starve to death from not wanting to hurt the poor plants she has to cut the fruit from.
Then again, if she had chosen not to eat anything, the writers would have had her spontaneously develop the ability to absorb nutrients from the air. ... and everyone else would have suddenly realized the error of their ways and the entire planet would sing kumbaya and swear off food forever because Cassie is right, is always right, and will always be right, and don't you forget it.
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I also think she was wrong in having Davuid be trapped as a mouse. Obviously he found no happiness on that island. It would have been better to end him quickly and mostly painlessly.
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The books don't PORTRAY that as wrong though. They portray it as the only right decision, which ONLY she was able to come up with. Rachel and Jake failed, just after they had like one of their only touching moments of the series together. Which always pissed me off. Those two should have been the ones to think of the solution, after that scene.
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Although you know, knowing Cassie's pacifism and moralizing, I'm surprised she didn't starve to death from not wanting to hurt the poor plants she has to cut the fruit from.
Then again, if she had chosen not to eat anything, the writers would have had her spontaneously develop the ability to absorb nutrients from the air. ... and everyone else would have suddenly realized the error of their ways and the entire planet would sing kumbaya and swear off food forever because Cassie is right, is always right, and will always be right, and don't you forget it.
Oh man. LOL. I laughed so hard when I read that. It's funny because it could almost be true.
And, okay, yeah, trapping David as a rat was Cassie's other big mistake of the series. I mean, they were doing that to try to be nice to him? Killing him would have been kinder.
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Cassie is willing to do anything it takes to stick to her ideals. Forcing someone to a life at the bottom of the food chain. Quitting the team. Letting Tom get away with the box.
Yeah, I can see how the books want to portray stuff. I have my own opinions, though.
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I've found it. As I've read this tread it's allmost too obvious, she does misstakes just like the others are, and just as many times, but it's hard to see... I'll give you some time to think it through but I'll give you a clue... Allmost all of you have mentioned it allready.
BTW Cassie is NOT a vegetarian. I have the book here but it's in Swedish and I'm to tired to download the eBook right now so I can't give you any quot, but according to Ax she ate meat at least that time.
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we see an mini-evolution of her through out the series.
at first, she sees nature as any person who hasn't experienced sees it.
in one the final books however, she sees it as a struggle to survive
"nature's color's are not green, their red...blood red" as i remember her saying.
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I believe that quote was in book nine.
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I believe that quote was in book nine.
really, i need to look through the series again
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yes, it was book nine.
Cassie HAS been wrong once. Remember, she voted to make David an animorph. If that was right in any way, I fail to see how...
Another time she's been wrong (although this doesn't really matter), is when she though 19 hours was 8 o'clock in book 14
in mm3, after jake died, cassie shut herself from the other animorphs during the sea battle...
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I mean wrong like majorly wrong, as in did something wrong and got called on it and it didn't turn out to be the right thing in the end. Not just mistaken about something.
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... unless I'm mistaking what you meant, none of the animorphs have ever been wrong then... and making david an animorph, wasn't the right thing in the end...
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giving the box away was wrong. A few defected Yeerks does not justify indirectly getting Tom and Rachel killed, and the Yeerks escaping with it on their way to find The One.
still, she didn't know that was going to happen. i still think it was worth it in the long-run.
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The other animorphs have been wrong plenty. Sorry you disagree, you're perfectly entitled to, but imo, Cassie was expressed as being entirely too perfect. Everything she did turned out to be the right thing in the end, even if she went against everyone else like a little martyr. But if anyone ELSE did their own thing, they always had to be proven to be wrong.
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Jake, yeah, it's part of his character...
Rachel... well it was part of her character in #37...
Tobias... uh... oh right book 43
Marco... uh... can't recall one for him...
Ax... book 18...
besides Marco, I sorta see your point...
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giving the box away was wrong. A few defected Yeerks does not justify indirectly getting Tom and Rachel killed, and the Yeerks escaping with it on their way to find The One.
still, she didn't know that was going to happen. i still think it was worth it in the long-run.
Her not knowing that would happen, that's like giving a gun to your arch-enemy, and not knowing that he might use it to shoot your family. If she couldn't predict that, she was not thinking. And that's entirely the point. She was not thinking. Or at least she was thinking with her heart and not her head. Which sounds like it would be a good thing, but in a war, it's really just stupid.
Jake, yeah, it's part of his character...
Rachel... well it was part of her character in #37...
Tobias... uh... oh right book 43
Marco... uh... can't recall one for him...
Ax... book 18...
besides Marco, I sorta see your point...
Marco? Well, he tends to be portrayed as too ruthless in his decisions, just in general. But now that I think about it . . . you know, you're actually right. He isn't wrong very much either. Huh. That's interesting. He's sort of the antithesis of Cassie. Both almost always get vindicated, but for nearly opposite reasons.
Let me keep thinking a little while. I'm sure I can come up with at least one time Marco screwed up. Hmm. Aha!
[spoiler]Book 35! Marco looses control of his morphing because of his emotions over the situation with Nora, and craps on the guy's desk as a bird, remember? Not to mention the general chaos of his mixed-morph problem.
Or how about every time Marco has ever entered the driver's seat of a car? :D[/spoiler]
Still, he does, in fact, tend to be right more often than any of the other characters other than Cassie. Veeeery interesting. Well spotted, morf!
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didn't cassie sort of help keep rachel's allergy a secret? For that matter, she also kept it a secret that marco messed up his spider morph...
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didn't Cassie sort of help keep Rachel's allergy a secret? For that matter, she also kept it a secret that Marco messed up his spider morph...
She tried out Marco's spider morph herself first, even if she in an earlier book had abused Jake when he did the same thing. BTW I have some weak memory of someone saying that Cassie had it hard morphing a new animal the first time. But I think that was to scare Marco...
When I'm thinking about it. What misstakes have Marco, Tobias, Jake and Ax done? Right now I only remember that one about Rachels allergy... and if I'm not wrong that turned out well in the end too.
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When I'm thinking about it. What misstakes have Marco, Tobias, Jake and Ax done? Right now I only remember that one about Rachel's allergy... and if I'm not wrong that turned out well in the end too.
OK Tobias.... I don't think you have forgot what has happend to him.
Jake
-beated Marco when he discovered how it was with Tom
-have been a "one of them" (which you have mentioned yourself in another tread if I'm not wrong)
-sold everyone to Crayak
-book 11 (I don't think I have to explane more)
-Allow Cassie to save the skunk
-Allow Cassie to save the parrots
-Allow Cassie... See what I mean
Marco
-destroyed Cassies dads car (with Jake and Cassie)
-came to a party he wasn't invited too, as a mouse
-morphed a shark in the school
-run through Erek's hologram so everyone could see him
Cassie: (she agreed to take the car after all)
-morphed a squirrel, and allmost ended up as Tobias's food
-morphed a skunk and fell asleep
-morphed a spider alone at first time and tell Jake of when he do the same thing
-kept Rachel's allergy a secret...
Ax... I put my own head on that he goes in for doing mistakes...
But Cassie is STILL my favourite
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didn't Cassie sort of help keep Rachel's allergy a secret? For that matter, she also kept it a secret that Marco messed up his spider morph...
She tried out Marco's spider morph herself first, even if she in an earlier book had abused Jake when he did the same thing. BTW I have some weak memory of someone saying that Cassie had it hard morphing a new animal the first time. But I think that was to scare Marco...
I mean in book 35 when marco mixes spider and skunk morph...
When I'm thinking about it. What misstakes have Marco, Tobias, Jake and Ax done? Right now I only remember that one about Rachel's allergy... and if I'm not wrong that turned out well in the end too.
OK Tobias.... I don't think you have forgot what has happend to him.
Jake
-beated Marco when he discovered how it was with Tom
-have been a "one of them" (which you have mentioned yourself in another tread if I'm not wrong)
-sold everyone to Crayak
-book 11 (I don't think I have to explane more)
-Allow Cassie to save the skunk
-Allow Cassie to save the parrots
-Allow Cassie... See what I mean
Marco
-destroyed Cassies dads car (with Jake and Cassie)
-came to a party he wasn't invited too, as a mouse
-morphed a shark in the school
-run through Erek's hologram so everyone could see him
Cassie: (she agreed to take the car after all)
-morphed a squirrel, and allmost ended up as Tobias's food
-morphed a skunk and fell asleep
-morphed a spider alone at first time and tell Jake of when he do the same thing
-kept Rachel's allergy a secret...
Ax... I put my own head on that he goes in for doing mistakes...
But Cassie is STILL my favourite
only about 3 of those were what cerulean was talking about... and about half weren't even mistakes...
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When did Jake sell everyone to Crayak?
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Megamorphs 4? Could that be what Stasiea is referring?
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Oh yeah. I never thought of it quite like that. Though he should have known it was a trick, he was weak and tired at the time. He didn't immediately take the bait, though, for what it's worth.
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Hm it's not very easy every time. I had to make a decision when I was weak and tired once. My village was struck by a flood some years ago, and when it began I was on the river in a boat... When I came to the marina it was allready evacuated so I had to pull the boat from the water myself, instead of run for my life. Two hours later I was found asleep at the marina.
I have done better decicions...
I didn't like megamorphs 4 by the way!
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Yes it was megamorphs 4 I was talking about, But I think I can forgive him after reading what happened to Mira. I imagine that if you are smart enough to think about anything like "how many andalites died when they invented morphing" then you're also smart enough to stand away from the river during a flood.
Then I have found a really big misstake by Cassie... That NOT ended up well in the end. In the first book she morphed a horse in front of that policeman, and that ended with a totally unsuccessful mission. :)
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Well she wasn't totally to blame for that and you could say that she was the only one to succeed in the mission, she alone got someone out.
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Well she wasn't totally to blame for that and you could say that she was the only one to succeed in the mission, she alone got someone out.
And later, that someone kidnapped Rachel
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It is a theory that the woman from MM1 was that very woman.
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At least it's a good theory
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Yeah, it's possible. It would also explain what heppened to that one woman. Unfortunately, it would mean she went nuts.
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It wouldn't really make Cassie wrong though, because that woman put the word "yeerk" into Rachel's head which adied slightly in her recovery, ergo yet again when it looks like Cassie makes a mistake in fact she subtly helped Rachel.
My her reach is long and her arm powerful. :P
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OK is there anyone except me who see the funny think about this tread...
For what I know Stasiea is a big fan of Cassie and I think morfowt like her too. I place her on top 3 myself.
I'm not sure about Nohensen but then everyone is at least allmost anti-Cassie.
Still, who is it that tries to bring her down? Me, Stasiea and morfowt!
And who is trying to defend her...
Imagine Marco reading this... He would have material enough to write a book. A thick book. Like lord of the rings or something!!!
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well it's because one of the reasons some people hate cassie is that she's too perfect (as is the reason for this thread), so by saying she makes mistakes, we're helping her... yeah, confusing and weird...
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I know, but still I find it laughable.
By the way if Cassie was perfect, why is she allways blame herself for everything? She is just as much "emo" as Tobias
See I did it again :)
But there is one thing I don't like about Cassie. She is both the estreen and the hero in megamorphs 4 (which is also because of some special ability (that I don't remember the name on unfortunately)) Anyway I wish that Rachel had been that one instead.
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Rachel being the hero may have fit better with the context of that book. Though I would prefer if Jake hadn't missed, and killed Visser Three with the dracon beam. Negating any reason for one of the Anis to come back from the dead.
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I sometimes wonder about the hosts of those Yeerks that decided to go nothlit. Were the Yeerks in morph capable hosts, or were the Yeerks themselves in morph. If they were merely choosing for their morph capable hosts to become nothlits, then what of the opinions of the hosts? Everybody counts it as a good thing that Yeerks defected and became nothlits, but what if they were dragging Humans down with them?
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OK is there anyone except me who see the funny think about this tread...
For what I know Stasiea is a big fan of Cassie and I think morfowt like her too. I place her on top 3 myself.
I'm not sure about Nohensen but then everyone is at least allmost anti-Cassie.
Still, who is it that tries to bring her down? Me, Stasiea and morfowt!
And who is trying to defend her...
Imagine Marco reading this... He would have material enough to write a book. A thick book. Like lord of the rings or something!!!
Actually I don't know anyone here well enough to notice that, but now that you mention it, I agree, it's hilarious ;D
If I wanted Cassie to seem too perfect so I could hate her I could be really childish and say "Cassie is always right because she's the writer's favorite character, so there, it's not fair, Cassie is too pure, nyah nyah, boo boo!" but come on, that's just silly.
The fact is it's a nice coincidence that she's usually right, and personally I don't think there's any real problem with people who dislike Cassie or who, like me, are indifferent towards her, noticing some of her good points, I'd think her fans would be thrilled, you guys should totally ride this wave, whip us all into a pro-Cassie frenzy, don't burst the bubble :P
I sometimes wonder about the hosts of those Yeerks that decided to go nothlit. Were the Yeerks in morph capable hosts, or were the Yeerks themselves in morph. If they were merely choosing for their morph capable hosts to become nothlits, then what of the opinions of the hosts? Everybody counts it as a good thing that Yeerks defected and became nothlits, but what if they were dragging Humans down with them?
I think they had morph capable human hosts until the war ended, then they went nothlit themselves so that they would no longer need to infest. But I kind of wondered how they chose their bodies and genders, they're blind after all and you have to visualize, so they'd have to infest someone to get a look at the person they're acquiring before they acquired them you'd think, but wouldn't that infestation have been illegal?
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Not really. They can use the host they're already in to look in a mirror. Then they have the image. They get the DNA while they're inside.
I was talking about the ones before the war ended.
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Ah yeah well I think Ax said that it wouldn't have worked for them if they were just in morphed humans, the humans would be trapped the yeerks would still be separate and die after 3 days, and I don't think Visser 3 had yeerks without hosts obtaining the morphing technology because it made host bodies fairly unnecessary and would have begged the question of why he didn't just back out.
If it was just because he didn't want to admit defeat or leave the Animorphs alive he could have, how had Ax put it? Ignited the planet's atmosphere from space with the poolship's bad-ace guns (I'm paraphrasing of course :P)
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If I wanted Cassie to seem too perfect so I could hate her I could be really childish and say "Cassie is always right because she's the writer's favorite character, so there, it's not fair, Cassie is too pure, nyah nyah, boo boo!" but come on, that's just silly.
So the core of my reasoning for disliking Cassie is silly and childish. Mmmkay then.
The fact is it's a nice coincidence that she's usually right,
No, it's not a coincidence, it's (imo) sloppy writing and favoritism. Cassie became the author sledgehammering into the readers heads that war is bad BAD BAD. It got old enough when it was just her, but when it turned into everyone jumping onto the Cassie is perfect and is always right no matter what and look how stupid everyone else is for disagreeing with her and she's the only one who ever knows the right thing to do train, it just made me want to puke.
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If I wanted Cassie to seem too perfect so I could hate her I could be really childish and say "Cassie is always right because she's the writer's favorite character, so there, it's not fair, Cassie is too pure, nyah nyah, boo boo!" but come on, that's just silly.
So the core of my reasoning for disliking Cassie is silly and childish. Mmmkay then.
I think you misunderstood the joke, (edit: I feel the need to add also that it wasn't aimed you or anyone else) I'm not saying that you can't dislike Cassie or that favortism is not a good reason to dislike her, I'm certainly not calling you childish--I thought it was clear it was a joke after the second "nyah", but if you feel insulted I'm honestly sorry--I'm saying that people could just ignore the topic and just say that instead of explaining why they feel like Cassie is always right. It's one thing to say she's never wrong, it's quite another to actually prove (or try to prove) the point of view by supplying evidence for it.
The fact is it's a nice coincidence that she's usually right,
No, it's not a coincidence, it's (imo) sloppy writing and favoritism. Cassie became the author sledgehammering into the readers heads that war is bad BAD BAD. It got old enough when it was just her, but when it turned into everyone jumping onto the Cassie is perfect and is always right no matter what and look how stupid everyone else is for disagreeing with her and she's the only one who ever knows the right thing to do train, it just made me want to puke.
If you say so, frankly while I agree that Cassie could be tiresome I don't know what train you're talking about, the other characters all had different opinions about Cassie, they didn't all see her as being always right, that's something that was brought up in this topic.
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I apologize for taking your joke poorly.
As for the train, I meant the writers. All the writers seemed obsessed with proving Cassie right, perfect, and saintly, especially as the series got near the end.
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I apologize for taking your joke poorly.
I just hope I didn't offend you or anyone else.As for the train, I meant the writers. All the writers seemed obsessed with proving Cassie right, perfect, and saintly, especially as the series got near the end.
I can see your point then, but weren't they like K.A.'s underlings? I don't know if they had very much power over characterizations, K.A. might have dictated that kind of thing, or noted it as being important.
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I sometimes wonder about the hosts of those Yeerks that decided to go nothlit. Were the Yeerks in morph capable hosts, or were the Yeerks themselves in morph. If they were merely choosing for their morph capable hosts to become nothlits, then what of the opinions of the hosts? Everybody counts it as a good thing that Yeerks defected and became nothlits, but what if they were dragging Humans down with them?
no, I'm pretty sure ithey were morph-capable yeerks. otherwise they'd still have to rely on kandrona rays... and there were morph capable yeerks. tom's yeerk said it himself that he was morph-capable...
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Just admit that she was extremely hilarious when she peed on Visser 3...
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That was one of the best moments of the whole series. Just the ending itsself makes the book worth the read.
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That was a classic moment for sure. I for one wonder just what went through Visser Three's mind.
<Hmm, small animal aiming its rear at me. I have a tail that can cut a man's head off so quickly no one can see it happen, I could kill this Andalite bandit before it finishes raising it's odd looking bottom off the ground . . . know what? Not gonna worry about it.>
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I wonder how long it took for visser three to realize (or to listen to one of his human subordinates) that he was tricked...
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I think there's a certain time and place for everything, and after Visser 3's been soaking in the wrong kind of juice for any more than ten minutes you do not want to be the one to tell him it's the wrong kind. :P
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I think there's a certain time and place for everything, and after Visser 3's been soaking in the wrong kind of juice for any more than ten minutes you do not want to be the one to tell him it's the wrong kind. :P
I actually know someone who I think want to tell him. Tobias! Imagine him gliding in from above and shout "SORRY WRONG JUCIE... TRY AGAIN FOOOOOOL!!" And then fly away with a roar of laughter.
Later
Maybe the little visser runs straight through the forrest, trying to find a skunk too acquire...
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I think there's a certain time and place for everything, and after Visser 3's been soaking in the wrong kind of juice for any more than ten minutes you do not want to be the one to tell him it's the wrong kind. :P
I actually know someone who I think want to tell him. Tobias! Imagine him gliding in from above and shout "SORRY WRONG JUCIE... TRY AGAIN FOOOOOOL!!" And then fly away with a roar of laughter.
Later
Maybe the little visser runs straight through the forrest, trying to find a skunk too acquire...
Visser three in skunk morph? And I have nightmares about him even without it. :o