Author Topic: Thoughts on the ending  (Read 22567 times)

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Offline CounterInstinct

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Re: The ending
« Reply #15 on: June 14, 2008, 06:14:55 AM »
oh... now  I wanna see who dies really badly...  :-\ I wonder if there are any HP ebooks out there?

Anyway, Tobias could have joined Ax... and become a true Andalite. But I guess he preferred to live a life as a hawk, and he didn't probably want to pass on his grief to Ax. He much wanted to keep everything to himself.

And hey, who doesn't love Cassie?  ;D
I'm just a writer, and my main goal was always to entertain. But I've never let Animorphs turn into just another painless video game version of war, and I wasn't going to do it at the end. I've spent 60 books telling a strange, fanciful war story, sometimes very seriously, sometimes more tongue-in-cheek. I've written a lot of action and a lot of humor and a lot of sheer nonsense. But I have also, again and again, challenged readers to think about what they were reading. To th

Offline dragonblossom

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Re: The ending
« Reply #16 on: June 15, 2008, 05:25:42 AM »
I'm really good at putting my feelings and thoughts into words. I'd recently brought this topic up at the old forums last month. Basically I don't like the ending all that much. I don't mind realistic endings but this doesn't read as realistic to me one bit.

Just because it is war and people die doesn't mean that the death and other killings have to be so flat. Something about #54 plus most of the books after around #40~ish just feel rushed, and half-as$ed. I don't like the final ending one bit, the "cliffhanger" ending feels like a total cop-out and so different from most of the books before #40 or so. Maybe part of it is because I took a few weeks to finally read all of them to only feel like the series died off due to poor planning and quick writing. (my opinion only, of course.) I started reading the books when I was 14 yrs old so to finish reading them at 27 and to get smacked with a lame ending really irked me. Still does.

I don't know what is quite missing or wrong with it exactly, I can't quite put my finger on it, but it just didn't feel right. :(

Offline CounterInstinct

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Re: The ending
« Reply #17 on: June 15, 2008, 06:58:26 AM »
Well, about the dying part at the end of the book... K.A pretty much explained how and why it ended up that way. It wasn't just a rushed up Rachel dies part.

That's the point of cliffhanger endings... leaving you feeling all that...

And I beg to disagree. The ending wasn't lame at all.... I liked the ending (except the One part) very much. Although at first, I was in denial, just like you. I wished everything would have ended up like that and all of it. I guess I just learned to accept it maturely...

Quote
I completely disagree and think that books 53 and 54 were an entirely fitting ending to the series. Not in any way the product of laziness.

53 didn't have any big Harry Potter-style final battle, but it was better off without one. We've already read about the Animorphs fighting Visser Three/One in some crazy morph a million times. So KA made Tom into the central villain of the story, pushing Visser One off to the side to play the role of horrible twisted mass murderer. She uses Tom, the major villain, for the final battle and then kills him. There's even the nice imagery of Tom dying in the form of a snake.

KA keeps Visser One alive to explore whether there is a connection between him and Jake as war criminals. Instead of giving him the death sentence, she traps him as a blind, mute slug in a cage for the rest of his life. The whole series, right from the beginning, had brought up powerful themes and imagery involving cages, slavery, and the Animorphs fighting for freedom, so it is very appropriate and compelling to see Visser One, the enemy of freedom, forced into the cage that he had trapped so many others in. That's not laziness on KA's part.

Cassie and Jake part ways because Jake perceives an insurmountable wall between them. He had killed the seventeen-thousand Yeerks as a diversion, and that's why he feels like he can't be with Cassie. Throughout the series we'd seen that there was a conflict between taking the ruthless but effective course, the clear line leading from A to B, and the humane course that allowed the Animorphs to fight their enemies without becoming like them. KA followed through with that theme at the end of the series, and that's not lazy, tired writing.

Yeah, Tobias had his mom. But if you read the very end of 49, there's evidence that the bond between Tobias and his mom can't fill Rachel's void. And it's not like Tobias abandons everyone. He still has Cassie and the free Hork-Bajir. But Tobias is an extremely introspective character. Rachel is the one who had always helped him with his introspection. He could have gone around looking for friends to help him deal with his issues and work through the pain, but that's the exact role that Rachel had filled and Tobias doesn't want to relive that process with a different person. Tobias usually tended to be bitter about the circumstances of his life, and it's completely believable that Rachel's death brought back that bitterness. Tobias became hardened. He had had enough and he wanted to be left alone.

And then there's the One, who is also NOT lazy half-assed writing. He's a representation of everything the Animorphs had always been fighting against. He's a slave master, a cult leader. He steals bodies and keeps his victims trapped. He is one being with many forms. KA ends the series with the Animorphs confronting him to represent how these fictional heroes are always going to be fighting for freedom.

And "Ram the Blade Ship" is really the ultimate bad ass "Let's do it!" Xena Warrior Princess Animorphs strategy. I don't get the impression that they're about to die. Elfangor survived this move in a much weaker ship. And it's easy to believe that the Ellimist and Crayak are continuing their game, with the rule in place that there is always a way for the Animorphs. The Animorphs have always been doing death defying stunts, and I love that Jake recognizes this and smiles Rachel's smile as Tobias gets excited and Marco freaks out again. It's such an amazing, perfect ending.

You call that lazy writing? Would you have preferred, "Ax was happy to have avenged his brother by killing the Visser. Tobias was sad, but with his mom and his friends there for him, he was able to work his way through the pain. He led a human life and everyone idolized him. Jake and Cassie named their baby Rachel. All was well."

KA's endings and finales aren't always fulfilling, predictable, thrilling and satisfying, but they are always always always appropriate to the story she had been telling and the themes it contained. (potential SPOILERS) Everworld examines a bunch of issues such as the question of which life is preferable: A life of security and mundanity or a life lived to the extreme, with all its horrors, but with a sense of purpose? And the theme of divisions between people based on their races, orientations, and beliefs. Yes, there was more story to tell, but Everworld wasn't a hit and it was stressful to write. Even though she ended it early, she was able to give the story an awesome final battle/conflict and deal with its overarching themes.

Towards the end of Remnants is does seem a bit evident that KA was getting burnt out, but she is still able to provide an appropriate and thought=provoking ending. Remnants is about politics and abuse of government. Again and again we see all the members of a group fighting for control, and that's reflected in the second-to-last book of the series. And the final book hearkens back to the first book, in which the government withheld the information that the world was about to end. The series ends with the question of whether the Remnants have learned enough to avoid abusing their power and making that irresponsible decision a second time.

by someone in the old forums... Hylian Dan or something...
« Last Edit: June 15, 2008, 07:06:41 AM by CounterInstinct »
I'm just a writer, and my main goal was always to entertain. But I've never let Animorphs turn into just another painless video game version of war, and I wasn't going to do it at the end. I've spent 60 books telling a strange, fanciful war story, sometimes very seriously, sometimes more tongue-in-cheek. I've written a lot of action and a lot of humor and a lot of sheer nonsense. But I have also, again and again, challenged readers to think about what they were reading. To th

Offline morfowt

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Re: The ending
« Reply #18 on: June 15, 2008, 07:14:11 AM »
Elfangor survived this move in a much weaker ship.

the difference is that elfangor was in a slower ship, giving soon-to-be-visser-3 a chance to run away. the ship the animorphs were in was much much faster (faster than a blade ship) so the yeerks might not have enough time to try to get away.

Offline Hylian Dan

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Re: The ending
« Reply #19 on: June 15, 2008, 11:32:57 AM »
But KA did say a year or so ago that she was open to the idea of writing books 55-60 if Scholastic gave her the opportunity, which I interpret as meaning there's a very very good chance the Animorphs didn't die.

Offline CounterInstinct

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Re: The ending
« Reply #20 on: June 15, 2008, 07:26:42 PM »
I got that impression too. The Animorphs were up against much, much, much more worse odds than just ramming the blade ship. Although Rachel might stay dead.... =(
I'm just a writer, and my main goal was always to entertain. But I've never let Animorphs turn into just another painless video game version of war, and I wasn't going to do it at the end. I've spent 60 books telling a strange, fanciful war story, sometimes very seriously, sometimes more tongue-in-cheek. I've written a lot of action and a lot of humor and a lot of sheer nonsense. But I have also, again and again, challenged readers to think about what they were reading. To th

Offline Chad32

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Re: The ending
« Reply #21 on: June 15, 2008, 08:18:58 PM »
A continuation of the series wouldn't be the same without the "let's do it!" girl. I don't see Rachel coming back unless Cassie uses the Time Matrix.

I just recently had a thought. In the book where Jake has the dream and everyone's a controller, Tobias morphed Ax and stayed in morph to become a nothlit. I think that is part of what made me think he'd leave with Ax at the very end.

It would just seem much less sad if he went with Ax and became an andalite. Preferably using the frolis maneuver, instead of just becoming Ax's twin.


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Offline filmstu2005

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Re: The ending
« Reply #22 on: June 15, 2008, 08:19:48 PM »
Well, about the dying part at the end of the book... K.A pretty much explained how and why it ended up that way. It wasn't just a rushed up Rachel dies part.

That's the point of cliffhanger endings... leaving you feeling all that...

And I beg to disagree. The ending wasn't lame at all.... I liked the ending (except the One part) very much. Although at first, I was in denial, just like you. I wished everything would have ended up like that and all of it. I guess I just learned to accept it maturely...

Quote
I completely disagree and think that books 53 and 54 were an entirely fitting ending to the series. Not in any way the product of laziness.

53 didn't have any big Harry Potter-style final battle, but it was better off without one. We've already read about the Animorphs fighting Visser Three/One in some crazy morph a million times. So KA made Tom into the central villain of the story, pushing Visser One off to the side to play the role of horrible twisted mass murderer. She uses Tom, the major villain, for the final battle and then kills him. There's even the nice imagery of Tom dying in the form of a snake.

KA keeps Visser One alive to explore whether there is a connection between him and Jake as war criminals. Instead of giving him the death sentence, she traps him as a blind, mute slug in a cage for the rest of his life. The whole series, right from the beginning, had brought up powerful themes and imagery involving cages, slavery, and the Animorphs fighting for freedom, so it is very appropriate and compelling to see Visser One, the enemy of freedom, forced into the cage that he had trapped so many others in. That's not laziness on KA's part.

Cassie and Jake part ways because Jake perceives an insurmountable wall between them. He had killed the seventeen-thousand Yeerks as a diversion, and that's why he feels like he can't be with Cassie. Throughout the series we'd seen that there was a conflict between taking the ruthless but effective course, the clear line leading from A to B, and the humane course that allowed the Animorphs to fight their enemies without becoming like them. KA followed through with that theme at the end of the series, and that's not lazy, tired writing.

Yeah, Tobias had his mom. But if you read the very end of 49, there's evidence that the bond between Tobias and his mom can't fill Rachel's void. And it's not like Tobias abandons everyone. He still has Cassie and the free Hork-Bajir. But Tobias is an extremely introspective character. Rachel is the one who had always helped him with his introspection. He could have gone around looking for friends to help him deal with his issues and work through the pain, but that's the exact role that Rachel had filled and Tobias doesn't want to relive that process with a different person. Tobias usually tended to be bitter about the circumstances of his life, and it's completely believable that Rachel's death brought back that bitterness. Tobias became hardened. He had had enough and he wanted to be left alone.

And then there's the One, who is also NOT lazy half-assed writing. He's a representation of everything the Animorphs had always been fighting against. He's a slave master, a cult leader. He steals bodies and keeps his victims trapped. He is one being with many forms. KA ends the series with the Animorphs confronting him to represent how these fictional heroes are always going to be fighting for freedom.

And "Ram the Blade Ship" is really the ultimate bad ass "Let's do it!" Xena Warrior Princess Animorphs strategy. I don't get the impression that they're about to die. Elfangor survived this move in a much weaker ship. And it's easy to believe that the Ellimist and Crayak are continuing their game, with the rule in place that there is always a way for the Animorphs. The Animorphs have always been doing death defying stunts, and I love that Jake recognizes this and smiles Rachel's smile as Tobias gets excited and Marco freaks out again. It's such an amazing, perfect ending.

You call that lazy writing? Would you have preferred, "Ax was happy to have avenged his brother by killing the Visser. Tobias was sad, but with his mom and his friends there for him, he was able to work his way through the pain. He led a human life and everyone idolized him. Jake and Cassie named their baby Rachel. All was well."

KA's endings and finales aren't always fulfilling, predictable, thrilling and satisfying, but they are always always always appropriate to the story she had been telling and the themes it contained. (potential SPOILERS) Everworld examines a bunch of issues such as the question of which life is preferable: A life of security and mundanity or a life lived to the extreme, with all its horrors, but with a sense of purpose? And the theme of divisions between people based on their races, orientations, and beliefs. Yes, there was more story to tell, but Everworld wasn't a hit and it was stressful to write. Even though she ended it early, she was able to give the story an awesome final battle/conflict and deal with its overarching themes.

Towards the end of Remnants is does seem a bit evident that KA was getting burnt out, but she is still able to provide an appropriate and thought=provoking ending. Remnants is about politics and abuse of government. Again and again we see all the members of a group fighting for control, and that's reflected in the second-to-last book of the series. And the final book hearkens back to the first book, in which the government withheld the information that the world was about to end. The series ends with the question of whether the Remnants have learned enough to avoid abusing their power and making that irresponsible decision a second time.

by someone in the old forums... Hylian Dan or something...


Lol. I'm sorry, but doesnt that sounds like half-assed writing to u? It didnt have to be ridiculously useless. It didnt have to be a happy perky everything is well and perfect ending. In fact, i found that Harry Potter epilogue wasteful.

All im saying is that reading that whole book made it seem she got tired and rushed through it.  I think she has a habit of doing that cause i noticed she did the same in Everworld and Remnants. But oh well.

Ram the blade ship is a cool way to go out, but i wish things would have been foreshadowed about this new villain. Tobias could have had his mom if she's gonna kill rachel, no buts. I think Marco would have been a much deeper guy than the superficial person we saw. Dont even try to deny that he was a bit over the top from his usual persona. It was like he had never got involved in the war.

And i know a lot of u thought it was justified, but Cassie and Jake needed to be together. Period. Thats my opinion and im sticking to it. Like i say, sometimes after a war, the only person who can help u get back to somewhat normalcy are the ones who were there WITH YOU THROUGH IT ALL.

« Last Edit: June 15, 2008, 08:22:52 PM by filmstu2005 »

Offline SuperBlue

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Re: The ending
« Reply #23 on: June 16, 2008, 08:59:53 PM »

 "Ax was happy to have avenged his brother by killing the Visser. Tobias was sad, but with his mom and his friends there for him, he was able to work his way through the pain. He led a human life and everyone idolized him. Jake and Cassie named their baby Rachel. All was well."


I actually wouldn't have minded an ending like that it's better then tht half assed "Ram the Bladeship" ending ;D

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Offline CounterInstinct

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Re: The ending
« Reply #24 on: June 17, 2008, 05:23:24 AM »

 "Ax was happy to have avenged his brother by killing the Visser. Tobias was sad, but with his mom and his friends there for him, he was able to work his way through the pain. He led a human life and everyone idolized him. Jake and Cassie named their baby Rachel. All was well."


I actually wouldn't have minded an ending like that it's better then tht half assed "Ram the Bladeship" ending ;D



No... that would have been TOO perfect for a war story... that would sound... um.... quarter-assed and even more rushed ending.
Unless... that is an expression of Sarcasm? I'm not very good at identifying human emotions and meanings without seing their hideous faces....  ;)
I'm just a writer, and my main goal was always to entertain. But I've never let Animorphs turn into just another painless video game version of war, and I wasn't going to do it at the end. I've spent 60 books telling a strange, fanciful war story, sometimes very seriously, sometimes more tongue-in-cheek. I've written a lot of action and a lot of humor and a lot of sheer nonsense. But I have also, again and again, challenged readers to think about what they were reading. To th

Offline Chad32

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Re: The ending
« Reply #25 on: June 17, 2008, 08:37:51 AM »
It's not too perfect for a FICTIONAL war story. Like I said, this is a fantasy thing. KAA should have at least had Tobias leave with Ax, instead of flying off like that. It was pathetic on his part.

I know he's had a hard life, but I never thought of him as pathetic. However, leaving his best friend like that was nothing less than pathetic.


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Offline CounterInstinct

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Re: The ending
« Reply #26 on: June 17, 2008, 08:54:56 AM »
It's not too perfect for a FICTIONAL war story. Like I said, this is a fantasy thing. KAA should have at least had Tobias leave with Ax, instead of flying off like that. It was pathetic on his part.

I know he's had a hard life, but I never thought of him as pathetic. However, leaving his best friend like that was nothing less than pathetic.

Well, no... I kind of understand how broken hearted he feels. He DOESN'T want to be comforted. I know its emoish and all, but its just like Tobias to be like that. He may be afraid that if he becomes happy, he might forget about Rachel... I guess that's why he made himself an outcast of the world.
I'm just a writer, and my main goal was always to entertain. But I've never let Animorphs turn into just another painless video game version of war, and I wasn't going to do it at the end. I've spent 60 books telling a strange, fanciful war story, sometimes very seriously, sometimes more tongue-in-cheek. I've written a lot of action and a lot of humor and a lot of sheer nonsense. But I have also, again and again, challenged readers to think about what they were reading. To th

Offline Hylian Dan

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Re: The ending
« Reply #27 on: June 17, 2008, 10:42:10 AM »
Quote
No... that would have been TOO perfect for a war story... that would sound... um.... quarter-assed and even more rushed ending.
Unless... that is an expression of Sarcasm? I'm not very good at identifying human emotions and meanings without seing their hideous faces.... 
Yeah, that alternate ending was me being sarcastic.
Quote
I think Marco would have been a much deeper guy than the superficial person we saw. Dont even try to deny that he was a bit over the top from his usual persona. It was like he had never got involved in the war.
I was really bothered when Marco decided to eat a cookie right after Rachel died.

Offline Chad32

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Re: The ending
« Reply #28 on: June 17, 2008, 01:33:23 PM »
Maybe it should have been Jake in Rachel's place. I'm assuming he still had the Howler morph. It wouldn't matter how many there were, or what they started morphing. Jake as a Howler would be able to grab Tom, wreck the bladeship's controls, and get them both out with minimal risk.


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Offline morfowt

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Re: The ending
« Reply #29 on: June 17, 2008, 05:13:19 PM »
but...actually I'm not gonna say it for fear of debate starting...oh what the heck. but howlers are sentient creatures.