Author Topic: Alloran  (Read 5730 times)

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Offline anijen21

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Re: Alloran
« Reply #30 on: September 10, 2009, 10:20:11 AM »
That's a very good point. I believe it was implied that it was created as a percaution, or a trump card. Though I'm thinking he probably would have released it eventually as a last resort, I don't think he was planning on doing it any time soon.

So yeah, the virus was actually released by accident, by the fault of Aldrea and Dak. But would Alloran have released it himself eventually? Now that's a question to ponder.

Actually, if Alloran wouldn't have, I think the Arn would. They'd destroy the Hork-Bajir to hopefully drive the Yeerks off of their world, and then re-create them so they can sustain the trees to sustain the planet, possibly with a failsafe to keep them form getting infested again. (Like they did to themselves, with the bloodvessel that would burst if they get infested)

Well that's the basis of my theory. The only indication that we get live, in The Hork-Bajir Chronicles of what Alloran's intentions with the Quantum Virus were is this:

Quote from: The Hork Bajir Chronicles, p. 185
<It's over Alloran,> Aldrea cried. <You are not going to destroy the Hork-Bajir!>
<I'm trying to save this planet, you fool!> Alloran said.

Now, we get a lot of rationalizing and crazed jibber-jabber in the Andalite Chronicles, which I haven't looked at very recently, but...aww hell just let me do it now.

Quote from: The Andalite Chronicles, p. 169
The most important thing in war is to destroy your enemies, Aristh Elfangor. Nothing is more important than destroying your enemies. Do you understand?

Quote from: The Andalite Chronicles, p. 174-75
They are the enemy. Hypocrites! You're all hypocrites! We lost the Hork-Bajir war because of weak, moralizing fools like you! Because of fools like you, I am disgraced and shunned and sent off on trivial errands with nothing but arisths under my command...What is the difference how you destroy the enemy?...What does it matter if you kill them with a tail blade or shredder or quantum virus?

And that's all he has to say about that.

Now, here's what I think went down: Alloran was losing, on the Hork-Bajir world. I don't believe he had any control over how many troops were assigned to him, in fact, this is what the Andalites say about how they decided to distribute their resources:

Quote from: The Hork-Bajir Chronicles, p. 160
<We have eight fighters, two transports, one re-supply ship, one repair ship. A total of less than a thousand warriors. We destroyed two Yeerk fighters on the way in...Days after we heard your message from here we received intelligence reports that the Yeerk fleet was in Sector Two. The main fleet is there. We assumed that since...because of you...It will take a year for the main fleet to get here, unless Z-Space reconfigures.>

<This is going to be a tough little war,> Alloran said grimly. <A very tough little war.>

Now those "intelligence reports" that the Andalites received are a rant for another time, but at the very least, this does prove that Alloran was not in charge of distributing troops, only commanding them.

So to backtrack a little: Alloran was losing. In fact, I think he was shrewd enough to understand that loss would be inevitable unless he got creative. Making and releasing a quantum virus would have been counter-productive--the Andalites aren't normally the types of people to go around killing sentient life, at least from how they're characterized in the Andalite Chronicles, before they got desperate, and the Hork-Bajir Chronicles takes place before then. Plus, I really don't think the Arn would have produced the virus if it was intended to be used, because they needed the Hork-Bajir to survive.  Besides, the Andalites may be too arrogant to realize this, but a bunch of seven-foot-tall bladed demons aren't necessarily a bad ally to have in wartime. So I really, really, REALLY don't think Alloran intended to release the Quantum Virus at all.

I think there's substantial textual evidence up there to prove that he was using it to blackmail or coerce the Yeerks. I think he was going to make enough of it, go up to the Yeerk commander, say "We've got enough Quantum Virus to decimate the entire Hork-Bajir population on this planet, so take what you've got and leave." Then the third-act dumbassery that plagued the last three Chronicles books struck and Aldrea and Dak did something really, really stupid and unanticipated by Alloran.

And who, as the unconventional commanding officer, got blamed?

Our man.

So what is all of that talk in the Andalite Chronicles then? I think most of it is Monday-morning quarter-backing. Thinking about the way things went down, and what he could have done differently, but in this case I don't believe hindsight is 20/20. Five years is enough time to delude yourself into believing that you're responsible for something you're not really responsible for. Like Sawyer says on LOST (lol bear with me), "Kids are like dogs. Keep hitting them long enough and they're going to start to believe they done something to deserve it." Well I'm paraphrasing but you get the idea. I think by this point, Alloran is shamed, subdued, and a little bit deranged.

But if you read it very carefully...there's indications even here that it didn't turn out like he'd planned. "We lost the Hork-Bajir war because of weak, moralizing fools like you!" is most likely referring to Dak and Aldrea. I think all of that "destroying your enemies" crazy-talk is his conscience trying to come to terms with what happened. Rationalizing, like I said.

So, I don't know. Alloran, to me, is one of the most tragic figures in the story, really bested only by his wife, lol. I know a lot of us consider his twenty-year infestation karmic payback, but I really don't think the punishment fits the crime. So when I picked up #54 and read him giving some stupid "and now I learned my lesson" speech...I was disappointed. It was trite, undeserved, and sort of out-of-character. I wish we would have seen him calling his wife for the first time in twenty-years instead. Or maybe him and Ax both destroying the source of all of their heartache and unresolved vows and responsibilities. I was disappointed with #54, not so much because Rachel died or the ridiculously infuriating cliffhanger.

I was really, really disappointed with how she handled Alloran.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2009, 10:24:30 AM by anijen21 »
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Offline Chad32

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Re: Alloran
« Reply #31 on: September 10, 2009, 10:21:02 AM »
Alloran was infested after being knocked out by Elfangor, who didn't realise Chapman was a controller in TAC.

I don't know if I have posted in this topic before, but I think it was wrong to release that virus on the Hork-Bajir. Mainly because with the Arn's bioengineering capabilities, they probably could have given the Yeerks viable hosts with the condition of reengineering the Yeerks so that they can only infest that one host species. Basically make them into Iskoort.

There wasn't much reason to exterminate the Horks just because the Andalites screwed up by not coming sooner with a larger force.


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Offline voodooqueen126

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Re: Alloran
« Reply #32 on: September 10, 2009, 03:36:59 PM »
I agree with russianspy1234... There is a difference between killing a few dim hork-bajir with a virus (which would leave the ecology of that planet unharmed and with survivors because some people are inevitably immune to viruses) and blowing up a whole blanet of 6 billion smarter humans+all their animals and planets and culture.
we all know it was unethical to release the quantum virus (but as anijen says, there is evidence to suggest he didn't, possibly why he lived at the end) but necesary in context (perhaps the yeerks would've refused any Arn offers to create new hosts?)

Offline MoppingBear

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Re: Alloran
« Reply #33 on: September 10, 2009, 04:44:10 PM »
I agree with russianspy1234... There is a difference between killing a few dim hork-bajir with a virus (which would leave the ecology of that planet unharmed and with survivors because some people are inevitably immune to viruses) and blowing up a whole blanet of 6 billion smarter humans+all their animals and planets and culture.
we all know it was unethical to release the quantum virus (but as anijen says, there is evidence to suggest he didn't, possibly why he lived at the end) but necesary in context (perhaps the yeerks would've refused any Arn offers to create new hosts?)

its not the intelligence that matters, its the numbers.  its hard enough weighing human life, and then you get into weighing all sentient life, are they all equivalent in worth?  also, their ecology was not left intact, the survivors/immune were the ones that got infested, so the planet likely died out shortly after.

Offline voodooqueen126

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Re: Alloran
« Reply #34 on: September 10, 2009, 08:45:11 PM »
sure intelligence matters, more than is moral to say, if you were on a dinghy/desert island with a genius, retard, and you  needed to throw overboard/eat, the order should go: sociopath, retard, you, genius. However the man pull/appeal of earth is it's biodervsity and numbers. Yes Kit is right, this is an awful thing for me to have said. However I cannot take it down: not because I am a cow who enjoys upsetting people, but because it would be cowardly to go 'people keep on reporting me so i will take it down so i look good' If i am going to be awful, then I shall take the rap.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2009, 11:14:11 PM by voodooqueen126 »

Offline dasada122

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Re: Alloran
« Reply #35 on: September 10, 2009, 10:24:12 PM »
One thing I've always wondered about the quantum virus:  Why not set the futzing thing on Yeerk?
You could release it on a large number of planets, making those worlds useless in the eyes of the Vissers.
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Offline MoppingBear

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Re: Alloran
« Reply #36 on: September 10, 2009, 10:42:13 PM »
One thing I've always wondered about the quantum virus:  Why not set the futzing thing on Yeerk?
You could release it on a large number of planets, making those worlds useless in the eyes of the Vissers.

genetics is a funny thing like that, the hork bajir genome was fully mapped for them, so they knew what to easily target, compared to yeerk dna.

Offline anijen21

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Re: Alloran
« Reply #37 on: September 10, 2009, 11:01:25 PM »
Oh come on like Seerow never took a sample of some Yeerk goo in his studies?

I think you actually just discovered a pretty significant plot hole.
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Offline dasada122

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Re: Alloran
« Reply #38 on: September 10, 2009, 11:10:34 PM »
And perhaps the Arn could have modded the Yeerks so that their control over the host was drastically weakened, essentially just a "voice in your head",  enjoying life with you.  I don't think I would mind providing such service.
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Offline Azguard

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Re: Alloran
« Reply #39 on: September 11, 2009, 01:17:11 AM »
maybe Yeerk DNA was confiscated by the government? maybe they were still working on it.
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Offline voodooqueen126

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Re: Alloran
« Reply #40 on: September 11, 2009, 07:29:16 AM »
I would just like to say that I thought of releasing the quantum virus on the yeerks ages ago: like I said sociopath, retard, you, the genius.

Offline Dameg

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Re: Alloran
« Reply #41 on: September 11, 2009, 07:30:40 AM »
whether or not doing it to the hork bajir was ethical, doing it to earth was not.  the andalites didnt even try to save us.  they were contacted repeatedly and told what was happening on earth, and refused to help.  their first response is "quarantine" as opposed to alloran, who used it as a last resort.

also, there were 6 billion people on earth, and the impression i got from reading the series, especially visser, was that most planets have sentient species members numbering in the millions, though we dont know the number of other sentient races, its logically different from wiping out a few million hork bajir.

I don't agree.
Alloran didn't try everything. He didn't try to fight with the help of Arns and Hork-Bajirs. He didn't want to! He thought that the Andalites are too "good", too "strong", too "perfect" to ask help to other species. So he chose the easy way: quantum virus. Same for Earth, they chose the easier way. They didn't want to work with the Humans as they didn't want to work with the Hork-Bajirs.
Killing few millions of people (sentient species) isn't more acceptable than killing few billions of people. The number doesn't count so much, the act really count.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2009, 08:16:34 AM by Dameg »
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Offline voodooqueen126

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Re: Alloran
« Reply #42 on: September 11, 2009, 07:36:06 AM »
I don't agree.
Alloran didn't try everything. He didn't try to fight with the help of Arns and Hork-Bajirs. He didn't want to! He thought that the Andalites are too "good", too "strong", too "perfect" to ask help to other species. So he chose the easy way: quantum virus. Same for Earth, they chose the easier way. They didn't want to work with the Humans as they didn't want to work with the Hork-Bajirs.
Killing few millions of people (sentient species) isn't more acceptable than killing few billions of people. The number doesn't count so much, the act really count.
You making good points about Andalite laziness/poor teamwork (remember they are herbivores unlike humans, Andalites don't need to domistacate animals like dogs or horses, so working with other species would be more difficult for them). But seriously saying there is no difference between killing millions and billions makes you sound like Diana Mosley...

Offline Dameg

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Re: Alloran
« Reply #43 on: September 11, 2009, 08:02:21 AM »
Who is Diana Mosley?
And destroying a species is the same for every species to me. Saying "they're only 10 millions, it's OK", isn't acceptable to me.
It's my point of view.

Edit: Thanks to Wiki, I now know who is Diana Mosley. And now I ask an explanation: why do you compare me to her?
« Last Edit: September 11, 2009, 10:31:39 AM by Dameg »
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Offline dasada122

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Re: Alloran
« Reply #44 on: September 11, 2009, 08:21:47 AM »
Well, I suppose a herbivorous herd species would trend towards being distrustful of others; the herd is the only solid ground.
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