Invasion of Earth Proposal.

[visser101]

people seem to be forgetting that yeerks are for the most part untrained civilians given bodies, ray-guns, and orders. heck boyscouts have more military training then the average yeerk so any open invasions are going to get real bloody real fast and about 30 seconds after it starts you are going to have one of the most insane bloodthirsty highly intelligent species in the universe thinking about ways to kill you.

and 50 millions gun nuts are just the guys ready to fight in the first week and these are also the guys that would go kill a hork-bajir with nothing but hunting knife for bragging rights. week two you start to get the next 100 millions people that know how to shoot and getting thought basic training.

[Blazing Angel]

then the actual military steps in with rpg's, tanks, and deathstars

[Gumby]

They wouldn't be beating the Andalites if they were so badly trained as you impose. They would have basic training, and since a dracon beam moves at light speed aiming wouldn't be much of an issue. Literally just point and shoot without worrying about compensating for the bullet drop or rise. The gun nuts? What about them? Annoying, dangerous if you're away from large groups, that's about it. Killing an HB with a hunting knife? They might try, but that would be unimaginably stupid due to the Hork-Bajir having faster reflexes, keen senses, being stronger, and being covered with blades.

The Yeerk bases would all be surrounded by shields and bio filters, leaving them invulnerable to anything short of a nuclear/Andalite attack. You can't just dump a bunch of guys with guns together and call them an army if they shoot well. The Yeerk's are organized and trained, many of them with combat experience and used to operating in units.

Tanks could be incinerated by Bug Fighters with absolute ease. And once mass-production of ships begins using humans as slave labor, the Yeerk power will only grow.

[Blazing Angel]

Force fields CAN be depleted other wise the yeerks and andalites would be running around in invincible ships

[Gumby]

Depleted by high-yield energy weapons, nuclear devices, and/or countless HE explosives which a rag-tag resistance would not have.

[Blazing Angel]

Let me point out how many nukes humans have. We could blow up nine planets. Or our on planet nine times. Yeah.

[Gumby]

We do have many nukes, and thanks to the UN, ALL of them are stored and listed properly. The Yeerks hack the network, find the location of all our nukes, and burn them at their leisure. Besides, they could just destroy the control centers. Without the arming codes, the nukes are just some really heavy paper weights.

[visser101]

andalites are horrible at fighting wars, their level of fail at war is beyond even LBJ. so the yeerks beating them is like one pile of poop not smelling as bad as the next pile, their all poop. i ask you how many times did the Animorphs get missed by DBs? shooting anything is not a simple matter of point and shoot beside outside considerations there are a number of interal body factors you must control and account for. just try using one of those cheap walmart lazier pointers to hit a target on the first try.
and if annoying you mean never being able t step outside your deffences with out getting hammered then then your right. i'll also point out that all the animals the animorphs use in combat have been killed buy humans with hunting knives minus the elephant who need long pointed sticks to get at most of the important stuff. if these animals can take on multiple hork-bajir then the aliens are not beyond the abilities of humans to take one on one. they may not do it for fun but it can be done.

we saw how ground combat was waged on the x-frog homeworld the shields did not seem to be able to be used in that manor, interference i think. and again you are over stating the yeerks abilities they are a mob of bodies thrown together with guns and the natural organization human develop in groups beats the yeerks anyday. and that is with human without any idea as to what they are doing. gun nuts do have an idea what they are doing and while some things will not work they will learn fast and find what does. if i remeber right it was not till the end of the series that we start seeing trained and organized yeerks going into battle.

once it is realized that tanks can not even stand up to a hand held db the military will dismount. once they start killing the yeerks they are going to take weapons and other tech to use and study. it is not even funny how out matched their ground forces are in comparison to ours. the yeerks only response is going to be send in air power and we know that even a hand held db is able to damage a ship to say nothing about the bigger stuff humans will start making, in 6 months your forces are tapped out and driven off world a year later you are fleeing into z-space so the human space fighters and bombers don't get you.

[Gumby]

The Yeerks on Earth were lead by Visser 3 who was an idiot who only attained his rank through his host body and intimidation.

The Ani's got missed all those times for the book's sake. if they actually did most of what they did, they would have been burned to crisp if the Yeerks were lead by a competent commander, which I would be. I'ts MY invasion scenario after all.

There's a difference between aiming a laser pointer and a sophisticated energy weapon with a pistol grip. Take a toy pistol, aim it at something. Whatever you aimed at would die if that was a DB. The only affecting factor would be the recoil, which appears to be much lower than any human weapon.

No, by annoying I mean if you go out on a Rambo-style killing mission then you'll die. Under my command, Yeerks would travel in armed convoys with air cover through land that could be dangerous, although largely air-travel would be used outside of the mega cities.

The animals the Animorphs used to fight Hork-Bajir won due to superior reflexes and/or the ability to take plenty of cuts and keep on going. A human vs HB without weapons save a knife would be futile, unless the human got the HB secretly from behind or in his sleep. And since HBs are much bigger animals, it would take a deal longer for them to bleed to death than us. they are stronger, faster, and quick reflexes than us plus being covered with blades. That is not a fight.

You are going off the books, in which the Yeerks are incompetent idiots with barely any good military tactics. I'm talking from if I invaded and made good use of the existing technology. BTW, the Yeerks on Leera didn't use shields on the ground because they were on the constant offense and didn't need them. In this situation the shields would be around important area such as cities, Yeerk pools, kandrona generators, military/government complexes, etc.

Once the military dismounts they will be in a somewhat fair-ish fight. Urban and Jungle combat is where we would do the best, where air support can only do so much. But we would be cut down on the open field and in major engagements. The Yeerks could just burn through the building individually with hand-held beams and Dracon rifles, slow and tedious work, but effective.

A handheld DB can damage a shielded bug fighter in the sense a Glock 17 can damage and F-15. So an extent, but not much. Plus the fact that a supersonic target firing energy beams at you is not an easy target to hit.

What bigger stuff we'll be making? The bulk of our factories will be destroyed along with a great deal of our technology. PERHAPS a FEW jury-built energy weapons could be made, but not on a full-scale production.

In 6 months? In Six months the bulk of the human military will be annihilated and with scarce communication, making large-scale offensives impossible. All, if not all of our nukes will be gone and the Yeerks will be taking millions of controllers. Many of our factories will have been re-purposed for developing Yeerk weapons and vehicles, soon dry docks in space will be constructed to build bug Fighters and gunships. Human soldiers will be being trained in the tens of thousands.

Resistance will have continued as always in minor, small-scale attacks on occasional outposts and vehicles by small, scattered bands of ex-army and civilians armed with a variety of civilian and military weapons with few heavy-weapons or military vehicles at their disposal with the obvious exception of easy-to-make RPG-7s.

[visser101]

competent commanders have competent troops a resource that will take you years to build to fill even the starting force. and once you do that you will find that your bosses will start taking them away everytime you start developing a solid force. really you can only count on the troops on you personal ship to stay with you.

 your entire invasion scenario requires yeerk tech to do things it can not do, have an abundance of resources that are impossible for them, and humans to fold at your evil eyed glare.

on top of that earth is a honey trap, the andalites know of humans it is canon that they knew the yeerks were here, and while it is unclear when the planned was decided on we know that the andalite were waiting for the yeerks to comite to a open invasion so they could come in a smash them. leera was possibly the same, a competent commander will see this and try to keep the yeerks profile below the level were the andalite will find it worth while too step in at least till the andalite are tied up else where

[donut]

- Prior to the open attack, mass infestation of human hosts will occur within the continents called Africa and Asia due to large numbers of host bodies and bad record-keeping by human officials there.

This would take construction of new planetside yeerk pools (which you can't do because you don't have spare kandrona generators), mass abduction by ship (which would have to be done in small groups that could be held inside the ships), or camps to hold prisoners (which would require some ground troops, of which you have few, and would be visible).

- Mining facilities in the Sol asteroid belt will bring in a steady supply of raw materials for future productions while gases from the human gas giants and their moons will provide fuel for ship.

With what ships, construction materials, and personnel?  Also, I could be wrong on this one, but I don't recall the books ever mentioning what the yeerk ships used as fuel.  How do you know that you can extract it from the gas giants?

- Thanks to excellent record-keeping and organization on account of the Human species, the sites of all nuclear weapons and nuclear facilities can be obtained from various factional computer systems which will prove easy to infiltrate. High-orbit bombardment of said facilities with both Dracon beams and quantum explosives will decimate the most threatening nuclear materials. While this happens fighters can attack and eliminate all major military installations in short order. This will be achieved via jamming all communications and utilizing our stealth technology to throw off Human radar and attacking in the confusion.

The idea behind this one makes sense, but the execution isn't practical.  A significant number of nuclear weapons are on board submarines, which wouldn't be able to be touched by dracon beams.  Handheld beams malfunctioned in dense atmosphere; I doubt any dracon beam could be fired underwater, and their energy would be absorbed by water before reaching most subs.  That's assuming that they could locate and keep track of the subs after the attack began. 

You also have a lot of fighters attacking installations simultaneously.  How many fighters do you have?  I'd estimate around 25 are in the Sol system.  You also have to consider that during peacetime, most of the U.S. armed forces aren't activated.  They wouldn't be at military installations.  It's a small portion of the world's military, but I'd like to think it's one of the more dangerous parts (I'm a little biased in this case).

- CRITICAL TO ABOVE PHASE: Attacks MUST be launched during a meeting of the human faction leaders at their United Nations. After attacks in above phase, the UN meeting area will be destroyed along with the human leaders. In as short of time as possible the centers of government for the human superpowers will be likewise attacked.

This makes perfect sense...  except you will be waiting until there is a U.N. summit meeting.

- Ultimatum will be given to Humans who will likely attempt further resistance. If further resistance continues, the deployment of a local disease referred to as the Ebola Virus will be programmed to attack the DNA of a large, undetermined number on humans. The brutal work of the virus will doubtlessly demoralize the bulk of the humans and disorganize the rest.

You just released an uncontrolled, self-replicating weapon.  Do you realize how dangerous that is?  I'll get to feasibility of designing it to target specific people in a minute.  For now, let's assume that you can.  It will go through many generations before it finishes its job.  It will have plenty of opportunities to mutate, and because once it's released you no longer have control over it, you can't correct for these mutations.  There's a very good chance it can mutate to attack people you didn't intend for it to attack.  Given that Ebola virus has an 80% lethality rate, this will be devastating to the goal of getting hosts.

Now for the feasibility, you have tens of thousands of yeerks on the planet to begin with.  What percentage could you reasonably assume are scientists?  What percentage of those scientists could you reasonably assume are biologists?  How many of those could you reasonably assume study diseases?  Do you see where I'm going with this?

You are assuming that the yeerks can do this.  I know that the andalites targeted a species with the quantum virus and later targeted the yeerks with a different type of virus, but believed it would jump the species barrier and infect humans (which would be much harder to do than jump to a different subset within a species).  I don't believe the yeerks ever did much in the way of engineering viruses.

I also don't even know if it's possible to target any subset of a species like you're talking about given any foreseeable technology.  There are certain things within a species that make some groups more resistant to diseases than others, but if you targeted those differences, it would be very difficult to determine how many people you would be killing, not to mention that this is still no mean feat to pull off. 

Production of Human controllers will multiply to maximum potential to help reinforce the new position on the ground while production of kandrona generators and shield generators will begin en-masse. Meanwhile the conveniently created swimming pools made by humans will help serve as the base for hundreds of thousands of Yeerk pools complete with kandrona rays, all of which will be protected by shield generators and gleet bio filters.

That's would require a lot of resources and time to accomplish.  You'd have to build facilities to produce the kandrona generators and shield generators.  Then you would have to actually build them.  Until then, you wouldn't have those kandrona or shield generators.

- With Earth and the Sol systems great amount of resources and the tremendous numbers of host bodies, construction of defenses and war ships will begin as soon as possible.

- With a great human army plus a massive fleet of ships, the campaign to destroy the Andalites will commence in earnest.

Your biggest problem: time.  It takes a very long time to establish a good infrastructure for constructing ships.  The andalites will attack if they get wind of an overt invasion. (You won't be able to assemble a fleet that could hold off the andalite fleet that was mentioned in Visser.)

As for number, the Yeerks would have enslaved a few million people prior to the attack due to infestations in third-world nations with over-population issues. After the attack Humans could be enslaved by the truck load. Women could be essentially used as breeding machines to create more hosts.

You don't have the yeerks to take that many hosts initially, or the facilities to support that many.  And breeding hosts?  Really?  How long would it take for a human to go from conception to being a viable worker?

The Yeerk bases would all be surrounded by shields and bio filters, leaving them invulnerable to anything short of a nuclear/Andalite attack.

You're using Gleet biofilters to keep humans out of entrances that human controllers are passing through.  Think about that for a second.

Any human diseases could be cured quick enough along with any malnutrition issues.

See what I said about engineering diseases earlier.

I highly doubt over five hundred million cripples reside in India. Anyway, limb regeneration is very possible with Yeerk technology from the looks of things.

No.  The only time I can recall a situation like this occurring, the yeerks used prosthetics.

They would have basic training, and since a dracon beam moves at light speed aiming wouldn't be much of an issue.

Dracon beams are particle beams, not lasers.  They don't actually travel at the speed of light.  And trust me, aiming is still a big issue.  50 m isn't far enough to have much of an effect of bullet drop, but see how many people can hit a target at 50 m with a pistol.

The Yeerk's are organized and trained, many of them with combat experience and used to operating in units.

The yeerk's doctrine seems to be similar to USSR doctrine (which doesn't make sense since they don't have the numbers for it).

You can't just dump a bunch of guys with guns together and call them an army if they shoot well.

The same goes for you too.  Yeerks who had hosts before arriving would be combat trained, but any yeerks with new hosts would have to be trained on site.

and/or countless HE explosives which a rag-tag resistance would not have.

Exhibit A: Iraq
Exhibit B: Afghanistan

The Ani's got missed all those times for the book's sake. if they actually did most of what they did, they would have been burned to crisp if the Yeerks were lead by a competent commander, which I would be. I'ts MY invasion scenario after all.

Ahh, the part that set off my little tirade, you're saying that because you say so, it will happen? I don't have words to describe just what I think about that....

You are going off the books, in which the Yeerks are incompetent idiots with barely any good military tactics. I'm talking from if I invaded and made good use of the existing technology.

So either you're ignoring the books, in which case you might as well do whatever you want anyway since you're rewriting all of the rules of the scenario, or you're developing new doctrine, training all of your forces in the new doctrine, expecting them to move straight into it without any difficulty in adjusting, and doing it over precisely zero time.

A handheld DB can damage a shielded bug fighter in the sense a Glock 17 can damage and F-15. So an extent, but not much. Plus the fact that a supersonic target firing energy beams at you is not an easy target to hit.

I believe a bug fighter was disabled by a handheld dracon beam in the last Megamorphs book.  I'll give you that the max firepower on the dracon beams varies through the series, having a range of as much firepower as a low caliber handgun to a stinger missile.

In 6 months? In Six months the bulk of the human military will be annihilated and with scarce communication, making large-scale offensives impossible. All, if not all of our nukes will be gone and the Yeerks will be taking millions of controllers. Many of our factories will have been re-purposed for developing Yeerk weapons and vehicles, soon dry docks in space will be constructed to build bug Fighters and gunships. Human soldiers will be being trained in the tens of thousands.

The yeerks must have the fastest working engineer corps in the galaxy.  They couldn't pull that off on the hork bajir homeworld, where they had significantly more starting resources and less initial resistance.



My biggest problem is how fast you are moving through all of this.  You do not have the logistical infrastructure to support that type of expansion.  You have two capital ships, The Sharing, no movable kandrona generators, a few thousand human controllers at best, and are completely dependent on human infrastructure to get provisions to hosts planetside.  You will be destroying most of that infrastructure in your attack.

[Blazing Angel]

I am now officially scared. Seriously we could take over the world with the right rescources, ideas, and donuts fiendishly clever mind and tin foil hat

[Gumby]

This would take construction of new planetside yeerk pools (which you can't do because you don't have spare kandrona generators), mass abduction by ship (which would have to be done in small groups that could be held inside the ships), or camps to hold prisoners (which would require some ground troops, of which you have few, and would be visible).

Ground camps are highly plausible due to the Yeerks holographic projections and stealth technology. Just set one up in an obscure, remote part of Africa.

With what ships, construction materials, and personnel?  Also, I could be wrong on this one, but I don't recall the books ever mentioning what the yeerk ships used as fuel.  How do you know that you can extract it from the gas giants?

The Yeerks in the Hork Bajir Chronicles managed to mine, starting with nothing but a few fighters and skrit-na ships. Surely so can I. Using human mining equipment and human hosts inside of a projected force field to keep out the vacuum. As for the fuel, I was perhaps going a bit on assumption.

The idea behind this one makes sense, but the execution isn't practical.  A significant number of nuclear weapons are on board submarines, which wouldn't be able to be touched by dracon beams.  Handheld beams malfunctioned in dense atmosphere; I doubt any dracon beam could be fired underwater, and their energy would be absorbed by water before reaching most subs.  That's assuming that they could locate and keep track of the subs after the attack began. 

You also have a lot of fighters attacking installations simultaneously.  How many fighters do you have?  I'd estimate around 25 are in the Sol system.  You also have to consider that during peacetime, most of the U.S. armed forces aren't activated.  They wouldn't be at military installations.  It's a small portion of the world's military, but I'd like to think it's one of the more dangerous parts (I'm a little biased in this case).

Megamorphs 4 shows Bug fighters having both underwater capability and firing dracon beams underwater. But yes, I considered the fact many nukes are on submarines. However they too would be being tracked the US Navy, which the Yeerks could hack. They would eventually have to surface or at least get close to the surface, and that's when they would be destroyed.

A Yeerk Pool Ship has a compliment of around fifty bug fighters I believe, and two would definitely be enough to wreck most military bases. Strongholds particularly troublesome could be destroyed by the bladeship if need be. Keep in mind with communications down they wouldn't really be capable of staying in touch or even warning one another about the attacks. Comms satellites can be shot down, radios jammed, and mostly any other electronics can be hit with EMPs.And while most of the military would be on standby, their bases and equipment would be there. Pilots are no use when the airbase has been destroyed.

This makes perfect sense...  except you will be waiting until there is a U.N. summit meeting.

Better to be patient than to botch an attack.

You just released an uncontrolled, self-replicating weapon.  Do you realize how dangerous that is?  I'll get to feasibility of designing it to target specific people in a minute.  For now, let's assume that you can.  It will go through many generations before it finishes its job.  It will have plenty of opportunities to mutate, and because once it's released you no longer have control over it, you can't correct for these mutations.  There's a very good chance it can mutate to attack people you didn't intend for it to attack.  Given that Ebola virus has an 80% lethality rate, this will be devastating to the goal of getting hosts.

Fair enough, I was half-asleep when I wrote it all anyway.

Now for the feasibility, you have tens of thousands of yeerks on the planet to begin with.  What percentage could you reasonably assume are scientists?  What percentage of those scientists could you reasonably assume are biologists?  How many of those could you reasonably assume study diseases?  Do you see where I'm going with this?

If I was a Visser setting out to conquer a species and their planet, I would be sure to bring a good science team that covers all fields plus computers capable of doing just that.

That's would require a lot of resources and time to accomplish.  You'd have to build facilities to produce the kandrona generators and shield generators.  Then you would have to actually build them.  Until then, you wouldn't have those kandrona or shield generators.

Ah, but time before the invasion would have been spent creating said shield generators and kandrona's. In addition I would have several kandrona's before hand with me on the pool ship, if I'm taking over a planet a couple kandrona's seems like common sense to bring.

Your biggest problem: time.  It takes a very long time to establish a good infrastructure for constructing ships.  The andalites will attack if they get wind of an overt invasion.

Keep in mind that the Andalites consider Earth a rather low priority, I would at least three years to do this. in addition I would likely have much more time since the Animorphs would have never ended up warning the Andalites to any extent like they did in the books.

And since the Andalites idea of an overwhelming rescue force seems to be about three domeships, I think constructing just four bladeships and some bug fighters is well-within my reach.

You don't have the yeerks to take that many hosts initially, or the facilities to support that many.

Point there. But I could still have several hundred thousand to be quite sure. Facilities already exist on Earth to support the population.

Dracon beams are particle beams, not lasers.  They don't actually travel at the speed of light.  And trust me, aiming is still a big issue.  50 m isn't far enough to have much of an effect of bullet drop, but see how many people can hit a target at 50 m with a pistol.

True there, but they still travel far fasted than bullets. Unless they were badly made dracon beams, I do not see what could effect the aim of the user except just keeping the gun steady which could be majorly helped by modifying the dracon beams into rifle-versions. Unlike the bullet, the beam will travel in a very near if not complete straight line. Just aim and shoot.

You're using Gleet biofilters to keep humans out of entrances that human controllers are passing through.  Think about that for a second.

It obviously detects both human and Yeerk DNA, otherwise Ax would have told the Ani's they just had to walk through the door to the Pool and then morph.

The yeerk's doctrine seems to be similar to USSR doctrine (which doesn't make sense since they don't have the numbers for it).

Even the USSR trained its soldiers to operate in units, maybe not like the Americans, but they still did. And if I saw it fit, I could implement more training for soldiers in the wait prior to the invasion.

Ahh, the part that set off my little tirade, you're saying that because you say so, it will happen? I don't have words to describe just what I think about that....

No, I'm saying so because if I was in charge of leading an invading army I would NOT send my limited soldiers into battle with god-awful aim.

Sorry I never made my invasion plan clear enough, I was too tired to write it down.

Prior to all of this my task force arrived in the Sol system. Upon this we would enter an extreme-long range orbit, waiting and building up. Keeping a very low profile, taking a few thousand human controllers as we went. Mining resources in the asteroid belt, constructing what we needed slowly and surely. Once the forces have been built up, we launch pinpoint strikes in pressure points globally. Hitting humanity where it hurts and hitting them hard.

So either you're ignoring the books, in which case you might as well do whatever you want anyway since you're rewriting all of the rules of the scenario, or you're developing new doctrine, training all of your forces in the new doctrine, expecting them to move straight into it without any difficulty in adjusting, and doing it over precisely zero time.

I'm just going by the rules. I am a Yeerk Visser, and I attained my rank through tactical abilities. I feel the pressure of the Council on me, I cannot and will not fail. I will take whatever precautions I need, as long as I am ultimately successful. 

I believe a bug fighter was disabled by a handheld dracon beam in the last Megamorphs book.  I'll give you that the max firepower on the dracon beams varies through the series, having a range of as much firepower as a low caliber handgun to a stinger missile.

I recall no such event. I know the settings change in the books due to ten or so power settings on the dracon beam. I presume they would use a medium setting most of the time to save the battery.

[Blazing Angel]

Hold on, I don't think you can construct 4 blade ships. Those things are massive and powerfull, the rescources and space to build it would completely drain you and thats to just build 2

[Gumby]

They're not that large. And at the rate humans can build other massive things like aircraft carrier, four bladeships seems quite possible if much of the species is devoted to it.