Cassie's great crime

[Darth Zakryn]

We all know the Animorphs all committed some horrible evil in the war against the Yeerks at some point, but to me, Cassie's biggest evil, the one thing that sets Cassie apart from everyone else, her one great, totally unforgivable crime is to erase John Berryman from history. Granted, there was a lot at stake, but come ON! They couldn't think of any, ANY other way to ensure V4 never found the Time Matrix? Hell, they could have just intercepted Visser Four before he found the Time Matrix. And for those of you will say, "But they didn't know where he was before he found it," THEY HAVE A MACHINE THAT TAKES YOU ANYWHERE YOU THINK IT. How hard would it have to be to think, Take me to Visser Four before he finds the Time Matrix by ___ hours/days.

She just erased one man from history, and it didn't even have to happen. This is a fundamental perversion of the highest degree. And if you believe in afterlife, spirits, souls, this only makes it more unforgivable and more horrific. Cassie, at that point, went from me to being a meaning-well-but-misguided-idealist to being a Complete Monster. And she never has an Oh My God What Have I Done moment either. In fact, before I read #54. The Beginning, I was hoping she'd be tried for war crimes because of this. What, is she too cowardly to tell the world she made it so one person never existed? Wouldn't surprise me, but they'd probably excuse it as "the world isn't ready to know about the Time Matrix" and stuff like that when they should be in JAIL. It makes you wonder if they really WOULD have been tried for war crimes if the governments of Earth had a full scope and understanding of what they REALLY did during the war. Most of the things they glossed over. That would make for an interesting topic, so I'll leave it at this.

Thoughts?

[TobiasMasonPark]

     Post-war earth just wasn't ready for that sort of thing. I wonder if the Animorphs omitted the Ellimist, Crayak and the Drode from their various books and autobiographies.

     Imagine if the world knew that time travel was possible. It would cause a lot of problems, don't you think?

     Besides, I doubt if the Ellimist would have allowed it.

     And, even if Cassie did admit to erasing Berryman, the council couldn't do anything about it. First of all, they had no idea that time travel was even possible. Second of all, what can you do? Sentence someone to prison for erasing someone from existence? Sounds kind of ridiculous.

[Darth Zakryn]

That coule be construed as ERASING THE SOUL.

[TobiasMasonPark]

     How could they even prove Berryman even existed?

[Darth Zakryn]

Fine. Just forget it. If you were suddenly erased from history, I'm sure you wouldn't care either. Enjoy Nothing, no afterlife, no ANYTHING.

[SuperBlue]

Thank you! A Cassie thread that ISN'T about her letting Tom get the Morphing Cube. It's about time people realized she's screwed up big time plenty of times before that

[TobiasMasonPark]

     But I wouldn't know if someone just erased me from existence, would I?

     Would you?

     I'm not condoning what she did. I never read megamorphs 3. But I read about what Cassie did on Wikipedia, and I have to admit that I was disgusted.

     Really, Berryman should still exist. Because the Animorphs erased him from existence, which means he would have never found the Time Matix, which means that the Animorphs would have never had a reason to travel through time and, thus, the events in megamorphs 3 shouldn't have happened. It's a time travel paradox.

     What I am saying is that the council can't arrest someone for erasing a person who no longer exists, because there are only six people who remember that he ever existed.

[DinosaurNothlit]

The way I remember it, Cassie hadn't really decided to erase Berryman.  They were still discussing it, in fact, when Berryman's parents happened to see the Time Matrix instead of each other, and that made the decision for her.  Granted, I think she would have done it anyway.  But maybe in her warped mind erasing him was better than killing him?  After all, remember, she thought she was doing David a favor, too. 

As for putting her on trial for it, well, you do have the problem of proving that Berryman ever existed.  The Time Matrix would have to be brought up, and I don't think the human race is ready to know about that kind of technology.  Think of how many people would seek to abuse it.  You think that erasing one person from history is a crime?  Imagine how many people have enemies that they'd like to see deleted from the space-time continuum (hint: a lot).

And really?  To be completely honest, considering how many innocent lives (Hork-Bajir and human) Cassie has ended, this one life almost seems trivial.  Yeah, erasing someone from history might be worse than killing them if you believe in the soul (I personally don't, but respect anyone who does), but at least Berryman knew it was coming and even okay'd it (if I remember correctly, he actually told Cassie where to find his parents).  I'm not saying that that makes it okay, but this isn't the worst thing Cassie has done.  Not by a long shot.

[TobiasMasonPark]

     And I never understood why everyone hates Cassie. Yea, her moralizing can be tedious sometimes, and her narration is very dull. But she isn't a monster. At least she was THINKING about doing the right thing. Sure, for some missions there may have been one blatant answer. But come on. You're going to hate on someone for having an opinion and a conscience?

     Some say she's a hypocrite. I don't know about that. I haven't read nearly as many books to form much of an opinion on that. But she isn't evil.

     Come on people.

[Chad32]

We all know the Animorphs all committed some horrible evil in the war against the Yeerks at some point, but to me, Cassie's biggest evil, the one thing that sets Cassie apart from everyone else, her one great, totally unforgivable crime is to erase John Berryman from history. Granted, there was a lot at stake, but come ON! They couldn't think of any, ANY other way to ensure V4 never found the Time Matrix? Hell, they could have just intercepted Visser Four before he found the Time Matrix. And for those of you will say, "But they didn't know where he was before he found it," THEY HAVE A MACHINE THAT TAKES YOU ANYWHERE YOU THINK IT. How hard would it have to be to think, Take me to Visser Four before he finds the Time Matrix by ___ hours/days.

She just erased one man from history, and it didn't even have to happen. This is a fundamental perversion of the highest degree. And if you believe in afterlife, spirits, souls, this only makes it more unforgivable and more horrific. Cassie, at that point, went from me to being a meaning-well-but-misguided-idealist to being a Complete Monster. And she never has an Oh My God What Have I Done moment either. In fact, before I read #54. The Beginning, I was hoping she'd be tried for war crimes because of this. What, is she too cowardly to tell the world she made it so one person never existed? Wouldn't surprise me, but they'd probably excuse it as "the world isn't ready to know about the Time Matrix" and stuff like that when they should be in JAIL. It makes you wonder if they really WOULD have been tried for war crimes if the governments of Earth had a full scope and understanding of what they REALLY did during the war. Most of the things they glossed over. That would make for an interesting topic, so I'll leave it at this.

Thoughts?

That was the moral event horizon for you? She trapped a boy in the body of a rat to live a depressing life at the bottom of the food chain, gave the Escafil Device to Visser frikkin' Three, left the group at one time just so she wouldn't have to compromise some of her beliefs for the good of her species, and you pick THIS as her moral event horizon point? No, I don't find anything horrible about wiping someone from existence. I don't think it was the best plan, but I wouldn't say it's a bad idea. Just neutral.

even if I believed in souls, it's possible the guy could have been reincarnated into a new body. No, I don't have a problem with her doing this.

[DinosaurNothlit]

    And I never understood why everyone hates Cassie. Yea, her moralizing can be tedious sometimes, and her narration is very dull. But she isn't a monster. At least she was THINKING about doing the right thing. Sure, for some missions there may have been one blatant answer. But come on. You're going to hate on someone for having an opinion and a conscience?

     Some say she's a hypocrite. I don't know about that. I haven't read nearly as many books to form much of an opinion on that. But she isn't evil.

     Come on people.

Yeah, okay, I am a little hard on Cassie sometimes.  I don't actually think she's a monster, either.  But I get SO frustrated that she never ever sees any negative consequences of her decisions (yes, maybe she's made fewer mistakes than the other animorphs, but she HAS made mistakes, KA), that I overcompensate by ripping her to pieces and pretending she's a horrible evil person.

To be honest, if I were an Animorph myself, I think I would be the 'Cassie' of the group.  I hate the very idea of killing, and would try my best to avoid it wherever I could.  But I also freely admit that this attitude would lead me to make some very stupid decisions occasionally, and those stupid decisions would come with terrible consequences.  I love the ideas that Cassie stands for.  I just don't like that she's so -beep-ing perfect, when in reality she shouldn't be.

[/rant]

[Nar Klawip]

   
Yeah, okay, I am a little hard on Cassie sometimes.  I don't actually think she's a monster, either.  But I get SO frustrated that she never ever sees any negative consequences of her decisions (yes, maybe she's made fewer mistakes than the other animorphs, but she HAS made mistakes, KA), that I overcompensate by ripping her to pieces and pretending she's a horrible evil person.

I love the ideas that Cassie stands for.  I just don't like that she's so -beep-ing perfect, when in reality she shouldn't be.

Thank you, I always did kinda hate that when the others made bad decisions, it backfired worse. I always thought that morph capable ant shoulda come back to bite her in the ass.(along with the other things she did). I also hated the fact that she jumped down the other animorphs throats when they made morally shaky choices, when she made just as many.

[NateSean]

That coule be construed as ERASING THE SOUL.

Though I'm no legal expert, I'm fairly certain no jurisdiction in the world has a precedent for that, nor a statue of limitations for which they can persecute her.

[LisaCharly]

Oh God I just snorted so loudly at that.

[MoppingBear]

That coule be construed as ERASING THE SOUL.

If there is a God/soul/afterlife I am pretty sure it has provisions for time travel accidents / attacks.

The soul for example, exists beforehand, and is put into the body.  Stopping someone from being born only prevents the body, the soul would likely end up somewhere else.