Author Topic: Group Re-Read: #52 The Sacrifice  (Read 5583 times)

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Offline Terenia

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Group Re-Read: #52 The Sacrifice
« on: August 25, 2010, 08:43:59 PM »
Summary:
The war between the Yeerks and the Animorphs is still raging. There are no more secrets - but there are plenty of lies. The kids are fighting harder than they ever thought they could. And they're about to make the biggest decision they've ever had to fact. A decision that may eventually break them all.

Ax and the Animorphs have known that the ultimate destruction of the Yeerk pool will give them a huge chance to take back Earth. And they've figured out a way to do it. But there's no way to destroy the pool without destroying everyone else that may be there. And there's no more time to think about it. There's only yes or no...


Questions:
1. The big issue in this book is the fact that the Yeerks are rounding people up at gunpoint, forcing them onto the subway (which now leads to the Yeerk Pool) and infesting them en masse. I have two questions here. Firstly, how is this not getting noticed? I'm assuming the entirety of the police is not infested. Secondly, when the heck did this town get a subway system?

2. When Ax, Rachel and Tobias are doing recon they are attacked by several morph-capable Yeerks. One of the birds begs to be allowed to live and become a nothlit. This is the first direct instance that we see of the Yeerks choosing another way beyond parisitism. What do you think about this decision and its implications? Especially if it was the host, not the actual physical Yeerk, doing the morphing?

3. After Cassie reveals to the group that she gave up the Blue Box Ax accuses her of traitorism. In fact, he goes so far to say:

Quote
An entire human race of Rachels - angry, merciless, aggressive, and equipped with Yeerk and Andalite technology. It was a terrifying specter.

But perhaps...perhaps I had been wrong.

Perhaps the real menace lay at the other end of the continuum - represented by Cassie. Humans who were softer. Kinder. Well-meaning.

And, ironically, infinitely more dangerous.

Do you think this is accurate? Are the Cassies of the world more dangerous than the Rachels?

4. How long do you think Ax has been communicating with the Andalites in this way? Is this behind-the-back sort of reporting in character for Ax, who has spent so much time going back and forth on his loyalty?

5. What was your reaction when you realized that the Andalites planned on putting Earth in 'quarantine', essentially giving up all hope of saving the human race? Is it typically Andalite? From their POV, was it the right move strategically? Are the humans expendable?

6. Cassie raises objections about blowing up the Yeerk Pool, and perhaps rightfully so, but eventually relents and decides to follow the group. Rachel mocks her, adament that they must destroy as many Yeerks as possible, regardless of who gets in the way. Do you think that they are being kept in character here?

7. When the first major battle breaks out in the subway the Yeerks begin morphing. Rachel insists that they attack while the Yeerks are in midmorph, but Jake tells her to stop, saying that they deserve a fair fight and that they aren't going to stoop to the same level as the Yeerks. Is this a smart decision, on Jake's part?

8.The climax to this book is the blowing up of the Yeerk Pool, an act that eliminates half of the downtown area and also leads to Visser One uncloaking his Blade Ship for all to see. Any commentary on this final scene?

9. Anything else?

Next time: #53 The Answer

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Offline SuperBlue

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Re: Group Re-Read: #52 The Sacrifice
« Reply #1 on: August 25, 2010, 09:04:55 PM »
I actually haven't read that book yet but there's one question I wanted to answer

Quote
7. When the first major battle breaks out in the subway the Yeerks begin morphing. Rachel insists that they attack while the Yeerks are in midmorph, but Jake tells her to stop, saying that they deserve a fair fight and that they aren't going to stoop to the same level as the Yeerks. Is this a smart decision, on Jake's part?

That kind of chivalry is definetly not the smartest decision and if I'm not mistaken, it isn't the first time Jake has done something like that. I get that he's tryign not to do things the Yeerks might do but THEY'RE IN A WAR, NOTHING IS FAIR! Fighting honorably can only get you so far in situations like that. They didn't even have to kill those controllers just attack them in mid-morph and knock em out at least do something to make your lives easier.
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Offline Chad32

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Re: Group Re-Read: #52 The Sacrifice
« Reply #2 on: August 25, 2010, 09:13:38 PM »
Some people like to say Alloran was justified in what he did to the Hork-Bajir because of the big picture. Well what now? Now they're going to kill Humans. Is it still better for the greater cause now? Sure you may be able to justify what Alloran did because he didn't do it to you, but what happens when it is you? because now it is.

I really don't think it would take long at all for word to get out, and people to be feeding this information accross the internet and to other world governments. I think it would be really hard for the Yeerks to maintain any kind of ground base on earth without killing most of the Human population first.

I think earlier in the series it was thought that the Yeerks didn't want open war because they didn't have the forces to conquer the world openly. But then Ax says the Yeerks could roast the atmosphere from space. I wonder if it's realistic to think the Yeerks could really blast anything with accuracy from space. I think in the last book visser One was blasting individual Auxilaries from space with the Pool Ship.


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Offline RYTX

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Re: Group Re-Read: #52 The Sacrifice
« Reply #3 on: August 26, 2010, 04:50:41 PM »
1a) I can't help but think at this point it was: the yeerks had been called out by the government, even if they weren't in open war yet, they had to be moving faster, and I can see them taking over the authority in the city pretty quick.
b) I think, or maybe just pretend, this isn't subway subway, this is probably more metro or, as a bay area resident I then to think BART, but whatever.
2) Of course the first time reading this I didn't think about this, but man nowadays, you consider that the host would of course be trapped to: that's not okay, if the yeerk whats to do it himself fine, but to drag the host into it- that is not cool
3) Yes and no. What seems to be talked about is a "wild Rachel" with no restraint from herself or others, and obviously those are dangerous, but individual aggressives don't do mass harm imo. It is the people who want to bring about a better world-as they see it-that end up butchering nations, and, at least in story worlds.
4) Idk, wish I did, but yes it's in character; after 3 years ax still stands kind of outside, but it's because of behavior like this. I disapprove, but he does the right thing by the end of it all
5) Lame: the "good guy" power has to be corrupt? Really? No, this could have good somewhere else. But as it didn't-bleck, politics.
7)Blues right, but at the same time well, you don't want to have an army of people that are strictly killers-it goes back to question 3, and it all requires careful balance. It's not a call I would make, or even necessarily obey, in a fight but I still respect it.
8)Awesome

I thought he was still in atmosphere when he picked off the Auxilaries thought they were still viewable on terra firma; not sure though.
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Offline Chad32

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Re: Group Re-Read: #52 The Sacrifice
« Reply #4 on: August 26, 2010, 05:59:16 PM »
I forgot to mention, but I did think about the hosts that the Yeerks were likely dragging along to be free via nothlitism. Unless they all decided to give their true bodies morphing powers, but I doubt that Visser Three would hand it out like that. What would be the point? I know Tom's Yeerk did it, but he does have some power so V3 likely gave him more leeway than a regular Yeerk.


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Offline SuperBlue

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Re: Group Re-Read: #52 The Sacrifice
« Reply #5 on: August 26, 2010, 07:53:35 PM »
Quote
7)Blues right, but at the same time well, you don't want to have an army of people that are strictly killers-it goes back to question 3

Hence the reason, they coulda just knocked 'em out.

 
Quote
It's not a call I would make, or even necessarily obey, in a fight but I still respect it.

LOL I woulda made that call in a heart beat. Kid's gloves should have been off the minute the Yeerks could morph. If I were the leader it woulda gone somethin like this

Animorph: Whoa! The Yeerks are morphing, what should we do?
Me:...What do you mean, "what should we do?" They're in mid-morph and I can almost garuntee it's like their first or second time so they're gonna be a while. Let's kick some ass!

It's kinda messed up but my morals go out the window if my life is on the line
« Last Edit: August 26, 2010, 07:58:08 PM by Blue M&M »
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Offline Chad32

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Re: Group Re-Read: #52 The Sacrifice
« Reply #6 on: August 26, 2010, 08:49:45 PM »
I say attack them while they're weakest too. In that position the Anis had no other advantage left besides morphing experience.


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Offline Gafrash

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Re: Group Re-Read: #52 The Sacrifice
« Reply #7 on: August 28, 2010, 11:05:31 AM »
I liked this book for its momentum. After the more or less uneventful last book, The Sacrifice feels like an authentic last boost in the series. With strong character moments and turning points in the story.

1. The big issue in this book is the fact that the Yeerks are rounding people up at gunpoint, forcing them onto the subway (which now leads to the Yeerk Pool) and infesting them en masse. I have two questions here. Firstly, how is this not getting noticed? I'm assuming the entirety of the police is not infested. Secondly, when the heck did this town get a subway system?
I always pictured they were right in the heart of downtown on this opener scene. Like when Marco ended up chasing Visser One/Eva in blonde curly wig disguise. Surely they had subway systems there.
Yeerk activity may have been noticed, but I believe the human police would have been most innefective, simply for having no experience in dealing with the Yeerk threat. A policeman that is firing at a menacingly-looking Hork-Bajirs or a disgusting-looking Taxxon, would have his back completly turned to an enemy that is virtually passing off a civilian. In this situation I think the Yeerks would have just executed the human armed forces. There is also the unquestionable difference in technology.

And the plan, to herd humans into subway stations that feed into the Yeerk pool, was a feasible one. Right up in character with the new leader of the Invasion. With no need for subtlety any more, it felt almost natural for the Yeerks to be doing this.



2. When Ax, Rachel and Tobias are doing recon they are attacked by several morph-capable Yeerks. One of the birds begs to be allowed to live and become a nothlit. This is the first direct instance that we see of the Yeerks choosing another way beyond parisitism. What do you think about this decision and its implications? Especially if it was the host, not the actual physical Yeerk, doing the morphing?
It's just plain wrong. And I like to think that Rachel would have done something about that.
I don't recall it being exactly explicit the Yeerks being inside morph-capable hosts. I lean more towards the hypothesis that the yeerks themselves were doing the morphing. Tom's Yeerk having revealed being subjected to the Cube in the next book, supports this, plus, I don't think the premise of 'Cassie's gamble' would have quite worked otherwise.

This is where the whole 'give the Yeerks the morphing guimmick' stunt made the series lose its touch for me. At this stage in the series it's morphing virtually became something else. If you note, the Yeerks themselves morph totally unninventively (ref. a flock of bald eagles and peregrine falcons; a buffalo, a polar bear and lionesses and pack of wolves; James was given a falcon morph, only to morph a red-tailed Tobias at the end of this story... it's like "ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGH!!! Lost in repetition ghostwriters... What happened to morphing standards...").


3. After Cassie reveals to the group that she gave up the Blue Box Ax accuses her of traitorism. In fact, he goes so far to say:

Quote
An entire human race of Rachels - angry, merciless, aggressive, and equipped with Yeerk and Andalite technology. It was a terrifying specter.

But perhaps...perhaps I had been wrong.

Perhaps the real menace lay at the other end of the continuum - represented by Cassie. Humans who were softer. Kinder. Well-meaning.

And, ironically, infinitely more dangerous.

Do you think this is accurate? Are the Cassies of the world more dangerous than the Rachels?
Well, Cassie was a traitor to the Anis' cause. Plain and simple. She acted without fully consciously knowning what the results would be.
The road to hell is pathed with good intentions. History is filled with individuals who wanted to do good but end up perverting the whole cause. Hitler himself was said to have been a non-smoking or drinking, vegetarian. (please note: NOT THAT I AM COMPARING CASSIE TO HITLER IN ANY WAY!)
Rachel may have been bloodthirsty or what not, but she was also a multi-faceted warrior, who was somewhat open about her feelings. The so-called 'black sheep' of the team. Cassie could be considered her diametrical opposite. My point is, that, it's people that are too good to be true, that when left to their own devices can come up with some real shockers. And I think that's what Ax, as the alien, had conceived.


4. How long do you think Ax has been communicating with the Andalites in this way? Is this behind-the-back sort of reporting in character for Ax, who has spent so much time going back and forth on his loyalty?
On the other side of the margin, we have Ax doing potentially dangerous deals with the Andalites, judging the human condition, he falls  back into his military Andalite ways again. Now that I think about it, this action can be considered sneakily traitorous, much like Cassie's, in his part. Only his is meticulous and calculated. But taking into consideration that only he could really use this new resource, his feelings in the escalation of the war and the clear deterioration of the resistance, it's not hard to understand why the Andalite felt the need to report to his people.

5. What was your reaction when you realized that the Andalites planned on putting Earth in 'quarantine', essentially giving up all hope of saving the human race? Is it typically Andalite? From their POV, was it the right move strategically? Are the humans expendable?
I think even Ax was shocked to hear that the Andalite military intended on pulling the same Hork-Bajir homeworld stunt. The military can always justify their moves, but are incapable of seeing the micro-details in the big picture. They call Alloran The Abomination, but here the military was about to do the exact same thing. It only spells one word to me: Hypocrisy.

Still, I wish this had been delivered to us readers more surprisingly/shocking. Like when in #54 Erek is found to have been draining the Dracon cannons in a crucial moment... I was shocked then! Here I was more like, "Oh, no you didn't, Ax!".




6. Cassie raises objections about blowing up the Yeerk Pool, and perhaps rightfully so, but eventually relents and decides to follow the group. Rachel mocks her, adament that they must destroy as many Yeerks as possible, regardless of who gets in the way. Do you think that they are being kept in character here?
Of course she raised objections, she is Cassie. Though I don't remember Rachel mocking her.
This is exactly where they were in The Test, only they could no longer afford NOT TO DO IT anymore.


7. When the first major battle breaks out in the subway the Yeerks begin morphing. Rachel insists that they attack while the Yeerks are in midmorph, but Jake tells her to stop, saying that they deserve a fair fight and that they aren't going to stoop to the same level as the Yeerks. Is this a smart decision, on Jake's part?
This translates kinda like the scene where Rachel taunts the Yeerk in falcon morph. Personally, I don't think Rachel was outta line pulling those lines on the frightened Yeerk. You have to look at it in the context of a war. The bad guys, who at this stage have all the cards and are still likely to win, are getting lesson one in morphing, which the Anis have transcended through many times early in the series. To have Rachel speak such things to the enemy coward was like putting words in reader's mouth. Kinda like when Marco told David something along the lines of 'when you've kicked as many Yeerk-butt as I have, then you come and talk to me'...
Had she done this outside that battle situation (say she assaulted a yeerk couple that was had their first morphing-date in a suburbian park in dog morphs), or had the war not unfolded the way it did, I would have disapproved, but I can totally see the character getting stuck in the moment we are confronted with, and so , to me, it felt realistic and justified.

...LOL I woulda made that call in a heart beat. Kid's gloves should have been off the minute the Yeerks could morph. If I were the leader it woulda gone somethin like this

Animorph: Whoa! The Yeerks are morphing, what should we do?
Me:...What do you mean, "what should we do?" They're in mid-morph and I can almost garuntee it's like their first or second time so they're gonna be a while. Let's kick some ass!

It's kinda messed up but my morals go out the window if my life is on the line...
Yeah, man, totally hear ya here, kids glove should have been off. The Anis could still lose the war, the Yeerks were still in their greater numbers, with the added fact that they were morph-capable. At this stage, morphing experience was the Anis' only advantage. Jake completely overlooked this for the sake of being morally righteous and all. I can understand what he was trying to do, but damned if I agree with it.
This scene kinda bugs me because it felt like it was more about ONCE AGAIN emphasizing how Rachel was the one too keen on doing whatever-it-takes-violence to win at any cost. And Jake was trying to differenciate himself. But to me it kinda backfired, personally, Jake comes across unnecessarily-naive here (given the decisions he will be making in The Answer), and Rachel's, completely justified.


8.The climax to this book is the blowing up of the Yeerk Pool, an act that eliminates half of the downtown area and also leads to Visser One uncloaking his Blade Ship for all to see. Any commentary on this final scene?
It was very compelling because of the fact that not everyone (morph-capable or not) would have made it out of that alive. Other than the fact that the decision to go ahead with the timer felt more like an emotional one than a strategic one, after that dragged out fighting scene in train, and, the Visser unnecessarily morphing that random abstract monster in the pool felt repetitive, it was well written.


9. Anything else?

So, there were some Jake scenes, Rachel scenes, Cassie scenes along with Ax's moments. Never seen so much content in one Ax book!


« Last Edit: August 28, 2010, 08:05:21 PM by Gafrash »

Offline Chad32

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Re: Group Re-Read: #52 The Sacrifice
« Reply #8 on: August 28, 2010, 11:23:31 AM »
That random morphing from visser Three just made me think that yes, some people actually do have free time to test out recent or rarely used morphs.


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Offline Gafrash

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Re: Group Re-Read: #52 The Sacrifice
« Reply #9 on: August 29, 2010, 09:37:18 AM »
Wish something ANYTHING about how the Visser reacted to the Yeerks gaining the power to morph was written. If you think about it, he suddenly wasn't unique amongst his people anymore... Sure, he would have tried to control it and administer the loyal Controllers he would have equipped with the morphing ability, but what of the rest?! How do you guys think he would have really reacted to his subordinates all around him morphing just like himself?!

We really didn't get anything new on the Visser since becoming Visser One, did we?!
I would have thought he would have taken pride in wanting to differenciate himself from his peers by establish the fact that he is an experienced morpher with an arsenal of monstrous interstellar creatures.
I can't help seeing the scene where he morphs here (take note: ultimately, his last 'morphing' scene in the series) as a missed opportunity. It could have been used as a device to make the Visser choose between pride or saving his people or saving his own skin. Just something more... either than just have him merely bailing. Visser Three/One was ignorant and brute, and slow at times, but never stupid, like he ends up performing here.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2010, 02:33:00 AM by Gafrash »

Offline Chad32

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Re: Group Re-Read: #52 The Sacrifice
« Reply #10 on: August 29, 2010, 09:52:15 AM »
Well he had to know eventually other Yeerks would get the morphing ability. Assuming they actually did conquer the Andalites.  One thing he still had was his host and all his very dangerous morphs. The rest had Human hosts with Earth morphs.


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Offline Gafrash

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Re: Group Re-Read: #52 The Sacrifice
« Reply #11 on: August 30, 2010, 02:44:22 AM »
Yeah. It's still a little obscure whether the newly morph-capable Yeerks were acquiring intergallictic morphs. They certainly would have had access. But instead we only get mostly 'secondary' morphs either than our Anis battle morphs. AGAIN, it's that thing I said about repetition and lack of creativity in ghostwriters...
I mean, you gotta ask, wouldn't the Yeerks totally exploit the fact that they could blend in with the resistance, by using morphs they already know the Animorphs used. An example in case is the red-tailed hawk. They HAD access to one (ref. to #49:The Diversion). Yet, we got a squadron of falcons and eagles... Not so smart for a species that employs masquarading as their means.

Or, I could well be wrong, and would be content so, with KA may having well outlined this.
If so, I like to think that the Visser would have claimed the morphing resource for himself, justifying his experience to the Council of Thirteen, contained the tech to his 'gang' of Yeerks in the Empire, and unwittingly helped to somewhat contain the spread. His scientists would have had access to the technology to reverse it by a certain stage and eventually they would have some Yeerk-copycat perverted version of the Andalites' technology, possibly mixed with some other alien race's aspects.
Arrrrrgh, I just get completely bitter about conceiving the Yeerks with the morphing tech... it was too big a move on Cassie's part... It's why I don't think the Andalite X Yeerk conflict is over just because the war on Earth ended.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2010, 02:53:48 AM by Gafrash »

Offline dolphin4077

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Re: Group Re-Read: #52 The Sacrifice
« Reply #12 on: September 03, 2010, 10:57:21 PM »
This is a small thing to quibble about, but how many bird morphs does James have?  I thought he acquired the pigeon in #50.  During the beginning of this book he was a pergrine falcon.  Then he was a red tailed hawk.  And how come the red tail hawk in that scene was James instead of Tobias?   

Offline Gafrash

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Re: Group Re-Read: #52 The Sacrifice
« Reply #13 on: September 04, 2010, 08:49:40 AM »
MY POINT, EXACTLY, dolphin4077.

Offline Chad32

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Re: Group Re-Read: #52 The Sacrifice
« Reply #14 on: September 04, 2010, 09:49:53 AM »
I don't remember, and can't answer. I can understand him getting a pidgeon, but why two bird of prey morphs?


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