Author Topic: Zero-Space  (Read 1470 times)

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Offline Silk

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Zero-Space
« on: March 09, 2010, 03:10:19 PM »
I read books on physics in my spare time, and lately I've been thinking about Z-Space and some of the physics behind it. I'll try to keep the technical terms out of here since I don't want people to have to google every other word to understand what I'm saying. I originally had this posted on the Animorphs Fan Forum with some help from people there, but I figured members here might like to have something to play with as well.

I: The Realms of Existence
     A.) OR: We know of at least 3-4 realms of existence in Animorphs. The first is the ordinary universe where pretty much everything happens. This is our world, the world where up is up, down is down, left is left, right is right, black is black, right is right, (unless you're capnnerefir when he's been on the green and think that green is blue if you believe it is), and so on and so forth. This is the first realm of existence. I'm tempted to use the word "dimension", but that isn't exactly right, so I'll stick with the term "realm".

     B.) SR: The next realm is Zero-Space. We know that Z-space is a realm of existence removed from normal space where it is possible to move faster than the speed of light. How this is possible will be explained presently. We can assume that Z-space is directly perpendicular to our own (not parallel, but perpendicular, since they intersect), or that it exists around, perhaps within our own realm. In any event, it is extremely close to the first realm; close enough that with the proper technology, it is possible to shift from the first realm to the second.

     C.) TR: The third realm is one that we see very, very rarely. This is a place where the Animorphs go every now and then to talk to the Ellimist or Crayak. They describe it as a place where one can see the core and the surface of things just as easily, where you can see all sides of something at once. It is very obvious from this description that this realm is neither Our Realm (OR) or the Second Realm (Z-Space or SR). It must, then, be some sort of Third Realm (TR: you can get this by now).

     D.) FR: TR may or may not be the realm of existence that the Ellimist and Crayak inhabit. They must inhabit some realm of existence, or else they...well...they wouldn't exist. Since they do exist, they must have some location, even if it is not in our realm of existence. They may or may not exist in TR; if not then they exist in some sort of FR (Fourth Reality). Based on the fact that they projected a physical form in TR, and that it was still a reality that the Animorphs could make sense of, with limited mortal comprehension, I think it is safe to assume that TR is not the realm the Ellimist, Crayak, and other beings of that nature inhabit.

II: SR Travel
     Okay, so we've established that, due to the fact that it is possible to exceed the speed of light in Z-Space, we can assume it is a realm of existence separate from our own. We can also assume, then, that anything we "know" about the physics of OR and how things in OR work cannot really be applied to SR. We can't base our understanding of it off of anything we "know" about FR. So we have to make new assumptions based on the limited experience we have with SR. For the sake of discussion, I think it is fair to assume that these assumptions are correct unless there is actual evidence against them. Now, I had an original theory on the subject, and a revised theory that corrected a big hole in the first one. First is the original, and the the revised. So, what we know about SR:

     A.) Absence of Gravity in SR: Nothing naturally exists in SR. Andalite ships go through it all the time. So do Yeerks. So do Andalites. And in all the recorded experience with SR, there is not a single mention of anything being there except for what we put in there. While this tells us nothing about the nature of SR, It does mean that gravity, at least as we understand it, does not exist, since there is nothing for which objects to be attracted. And I know that it's possible there are things in SR that we just haven't come across yet, but we can only act on the assumptions of what we have experienced and in all the experience we are given, there is nothing there.

     B.) Expansion of SR: Now, our universe is expanding. We have no reason to assume that SR is not doing the same. We know that our universe is held together primarily by gravity, at least in the physical sense. Since there is no gravity (by our definitions) in SR (due to the lack of anything to which objects in the universe to be attracted), we can assume that SR is expanding far faster than FR is.

     C.) Travel in SR: Okay, so  based no the above assumptions, we can guess that Z-space is expanding far faster than our universe is. At that point, it's pretty easy to see why you can travel over light-years in Z-space very quickly: you aren't actually moving at all. You are simply transporting your ship into Z-space and allowing its own expansion to carry you along. Presumably, the Andalites were able to figure out how fast Z-space was expanding and, using those calculations, predict how long one would need to remain in Z-space to reach one's destination. As an example, get a balloon (preferably white). Tape a dime to it or other small coin. Then, inflate the balloon. That should be a semi-accurate simulation.

Here is where the revised theory begins:

     D.) The Center of SR: If the above theory is entirely correct, one would only be able to travel outwards from the center of SR, meaning that it would be impossible to travel 'backwards' to one's original destination. There are three possible explanations.
          i.) Override of SR Expansion: If the previous assumption about travel through Z-Space being due to the fact that Z-space is expanding, then in order to travel 'backwards' to one's original destination, you would have to have some sort of device that is capable of propelling you through Z-space. Ax mentions that he can see a ship's Z-space engines in book 18, making this the most likely option.
          ii.) SR Contractions: If SR is expanding, as previous theories state, it is reasonable to conclude that it can contract as well. Therefore, by contracting Z-space, one could bring one's destination closer to oneself without moving through SR: at least, not very much. To demonstrate, release the air from the balloon. This, possibly in conjunction with Z-space engines mentioned above, would allow one to travel forward and backward through Z-space at will. We know that travel through Z-space is imprecise and requires some guessing and checking (as stated in book 54), and this is probably due to the presence of other ships shifting it around all the time just as you are doing.
          ii.) Shape of SR: It is possible that the previous assumption about the fact that SR is expanding is incorrect. A revised theory is that SR has expanded to its maximum size and has instead formed a sphere. Objects entering Z-space cause a 'ripple' effect and can ride those ripples in any direction to arrive at a destination. Wile this theory makes some sense, it has no supporting evidence.

This wold explain how it is possible to travel faster than the speed of light through Z-space: you aren't moving at all! You remain still while space expands at a rate we cannot imagine.

III: Z-Space and Morphing
     We know that Z-Space is involved in morphing (Ax says so in book 10). What we do not know is to what extent. We know that when one morphs something small, one's excess mass is stored there. We can use some more guesses about Z-space to try and figure out the answers to some other questions.

     A.) Getting Big: When you morph something small, your excess mass goes into Z-space. But when you morph something larger than yourself, where does the extra mass come from? It is a reasonable assumption that it comes from Z-Space as well. But where in Z-space, since we've established that there is no mass there?
          i.) Massless Particles: This is a possibility. There could be particles in Z-space so small that they do not have any mass on their own, or at least mass so small that it is negligible. However, when gathered together in large amounts, these particles can combine to weigh much, much more. So, by gathering these, one can gain the extra mass one needs to go from a human to a gorilla. Maybe these particles were inherent to Z-space, or maybe they were a byproduct of travel through it.
          ii.) SR is Transporter: That one needs some explanation. Perhaps the necessary mass does not come from Z-space itself, but from OR. The proper mass is transported from somewhere (probably unnoticeable bits from many thousands of locations), brought through Z-space, and then used to add the mass needed for the morph.

The effort of opening up gateways to SR and drawing in these particles is probably what causes one to be tired from morphing. The only reliable power source for this would be the energy of the body of the morpher. Ergo, morphing makes you tired.

     B.) The Time Limit: Why does morphing have a time limit? I'm torn between two theories on the subject. One is my own theory and one was proposed to me by my friend capnnerefir.
          i.) Silk's Theory: If our previous assumption that morphing requires putting mass into, taking it out of, or moving it through Z-space is correct, and if our theory that movement through Z-space is actually movement of Z-space is right, then the time limit makes perfect sense. After two hours, our mass has moved so far away from us (and sideways and up and down and all sorts of other directions) that it is no longer possible for us to retrieve it. It is simply too far away, or just lost in the ever-shifting chaos of Z-space. Likewise, after two hours, it may be that it is impossible for us to put the mass we borrowed to morph larger creatures back where it came from.
          ii.) capnnerefir's Theory: "In order to morph small things, you need to open a gate to Z-space. I'm going to go by Silk's theory and say you need to do something similar to morph large things. To do that, you'd have to open up a gateway/portal/whatever it is that ships use to enter Z-space. We've seen that, as it gets closer and closer to that time limit, it gets harder and harder to demorph. My theory is that, while you're morphed, this portal is open and as long as it is open, you can demorph. But after two hours, that gate is closed and you're stuck the way you are."

And that concludes my thoughts on Z-space. It's all really just wild speculation, but since SR is fictional, I don't have much else to go on. Enjoy.

- Silk
« Last Edit: March 11, 2010, 01:02:06 AM by Silk »

Offline poparena

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Re: Zero-Space
« Reply #1 on: March 09, 2010, 03:24:09 PM »
Posts like these are the reason I love this forum.  ;D
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Offline Terenia

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Re: Zero-Space
« Reply #2 on: March 10, 2010, 08:40:30 PM »
Quote
I read books on physics in my spare time,
You are insane.
Quote
     C.) TR: The third realm is one that we see very, very rarely. This is a place where the Animorphs go every now and then to talk to the Ellimist or Crayak. They describe it as a place where one can see the core and the surface of things just as easily, where you can see all sides of something at once. It is very obvious from this description that this realm is neither Our Realm (OR) or the Second Realm (Z-Space or SR). It must, then, be some sort of Third Realm (TR: you can get this by now).
I always assumed that this realm was one and the same with Zero-space, as they have similar/identical properties. In #18 when the ‘morphs are sucked into Z-space they also experience the whole seeing everything at once bit. Also, Elfangor experiences it when using the Time Matrix.

Quote
II: SR Travel[/u]
  Okay, so we've established that, due to the fact that it is possible to exceed the speed of light in Z-Space, we can assume it is a realm of existence separate from our own.
I was also under the assumption that Z-space was not actually faster-than-light travel. It is rather tunneling through space. Like…if you lived on one corner of a sheet of paper and wanted to get to the other corner instead of walking across the paper you fold it in half. One of the Andalites…Elfangor or Alloran…clearly says in TAC that faster-than-light travel is impossible,


Okay, that's as far as I got. :) I'll read/comment more laters.

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Offline Galladerotom

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Re: Zero-Space
« Reply #3 on: March 10, 2010, 09:09:21 PM »
How would you controll a morph with your mind? Because many of the animals have less thinking capacity than a human and we also know the presence of a brain in the physical morph due to intervention of animal instinct.

We can assume that the brain remains intact during morphing and controlls the morph from (most likely) SR (my controll theory). So therefore if the capn's theory on time limit was correct you would lose your personality if you became a nothlit because the gate would close and your brain would be cut off from the morph.
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Offline Silk

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Re: Zero-Space
« Reply #4 on: March 11, 2010, 01:00:29 AM »
Quote from: Terenia
Quote
I read books on physics in my spare time,
You are insane.
That seems to be the general consensus.

Quote from: Terenia
I always assumed that this realm was one and the same with Zero-space, as they have similar/identical properties. In #18 when the ‘morphs are sucked into Z-space they also experience the whole seeing everything at once bit. Also, Elfangor experiences it when using the Time Matrix.
I didn't realize that when I originally wrote this. I recently re-read book 18 and found that out for myself. I'm going to have to revise the theory a bit to account for that. While I think the original theory is still valid, I do need to make some changes to account for that. Thanks.

Quote from: Terenia
Quote
II: SR Travel
  Okay, so we've established that, due to the fact that it is possible to exceed the speed of light in Z-Space, we can assume it is a realm of existence separate from our own.
I was also under the assumption that Z-space was not actually faster-than-light travel. It is rather tunneling through space. Like…if you lived on one corner of a sheet of paper and wanted to get to the other corner instead of walking across the paper you fold it in half. One of the Andalites…Elfangor or Alloran…clearly says in TAC that faster-than-light travel is impossible
I definitely need to re-read the Andalite Chronicles before revising my theory. I suppose, though, that I can still justify it by saying that (as I believe I stared later on in the theory), your ship itself is not traveling faster than light. Rather, Z-space is expanding faster than the speed of light and carrying your ship along with it.
That said, it's entirely possible that Z-space is like tunneling through the universe. I'll try to account for that possibility when I write the revised theory.
EDIT: Now that I think about it, I think Marco's father said something about tunneling in his explanation of Z-Space in book 45, so I'm going to take another look at that one, too.

Quote from: Galladerotom
How would you controll a morph with your mind? Because many of the animals have less thinking capacity than a human and we also know the presence of a brain in the physical morph due to intervention of animal instinct.

We can assume that the brain remains intact during morphing and controlls the morph from (most likely) SR (my controll theory). So therefore if the capn's theory on time limit was correct you would lose your personality if you became a nothlit because the gate would close and your brain would be cut off from the morph.[/quote]
I managed to get a hold of capnnerefir for his response to this.
Quote from: capnnerefir
I can think of several possibilities. For the sake of this particular argument, I'll assume that the theory of the morph being controlled from SR is correct. I can see some justification for this. We can safely assume that you aren't controlling the morph via the creature's physical brain, otherwise someone in fly morph would have the intelligence of a fly. So, theories:
1.) Perhaps the mind is somehow tethered to the morph more closely than the rest of one's body, or else doesn't drift away because you're using it. Think about it this way: you aren't moving your body while it's in Z-space. But you do use your mind, constantly. Perhaps that constant use keeps it tethered to your morph in some way. Of course, I can't think of any evidence for this, so it's not the most likely possibility, or even the most logical.
2.) Perhaps you do, in fact, begin to lose parts of your personality. We saw with Tobias that as time went on, he became more and more hawklike. Yes, it could be, as we have always assumed, him giving into his instincts. Or it could be that his mind is drifting further and further from his body.
3.) It's possible that the Andalites built some sort of "anchor" into the morphing technology. They would need some way to still command their morphed bodies while their minds were in Z-Space, so it is conceivable that they found some way to anchor their minds to their bodies.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2010, 01:02:56 AM by Silk »

Offline Myitt

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Re: Zero-Space
« Reply #5 on: March 11, 2010, 01:23:43 AM »
Quote from: Terenia
Quote
I read books on physics in my spare time,
You are insane.
That seems to be the general consensus.


Don't worry, we're all mad here  ;D  Very interesting post, I think I almost understood everything you said!  This will be helpful in roleplays where characters regularly utilize z-space  <-----------(Yeah I'm a NERD.)


Quote from: Terenia
I always assumed that this realm was one and the same with Zero-space, as they have similar/identical properties. In #18 when the ‘morphs are sucked into Z-space they also experience the whole seeing everything at once bit. Also, Elfangor experiences it when using the Time Matrix.
I didn't realize that when I originally wrote this. I recently re-read book 18 and found that out for myself. I'm going to have to revise the theory a bit to account for that. While I think the original theory is still valid, I do need to make some changes to account for that. Thanks.


Jake also appears to see into this universe (into and around and through everything at once) when the Yeerk in his head dies in #6, and Crayak first appears to him.



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Offline Gafrash

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Re: Zero-Space
« Reply #6 on: March 13, 2010, 08:06:36 AM »
DUDE!!! :bow2: This is the most intense physics these threads have ever gotten! :bow2: I enjoyed reading your theories on Z-Space, Silk. Absolutely dig them!

In particular the one about the 2-hour limit. I think it explains a lot about the time limitation in the Andalite technology. And the fact that it changes travel-configurations, and thus travel-times.
capnnerefir's theory explains how the energy can be tracked (ref. 'The Veleek', 'Helmacrons')

Quote from: Galladerotom
How would you controll a morph with your mind? Because many of the animals have less thinking capacity than a human and we also know the presence of a brain in the physical morph due to intervention of animal instinct.

We can assume that the brain remains intact during morphing and controlls the morph from (most likely) SR (my controll theory). So therefore if the capn's theory on time limit was correct you would lose your personality if you became a nothlit because the gate would close and your brain would be cut off from the morph.

Have you contemplated the differences between The brain and The mind? Two different elements that we know are involved in living creatures. The answer to this may lie there. Not sure where a mental-element would fit in your 'realms', but I think the brain HAS to 'transfer' to zero-space (SR) just like all the morpher's physical mass does. It is The mind that stays in the morphed body. So much so, that there is no Z-space experience. The mind stays in SR, in my opinion.

I recall Z-Space also being described as like a Negative-zone, where everything is inside out... Or am I confusing it with the phenomenons described in Everworld?!?!?!
I would add that Z-Space seems to have its own particles. We know that there isn't a precise formula for the actual morphing process. It's not methodical, the morphing happens at different rates, in it that a human may morph into a smaller creature, say an earthworm, and retain its human size while turning into the worm, virtually looking like a human-size worm. The Anis have experienced the mass/sizing-adjust occurs last in some morphings.
This seems to suggest that there isn't said-real-life size earthworm floating in Z-Space out there. But code-efied (whoa!) masses of Z-atoms that transform in our space according to the morphing. (ref. Ax saying something about encapsulated in the bloodstream).

Conversely, on physical factors, a fatigued or lethally injured person cannot generate the morphing energy and a allergic-morph can hinder that same energy. On non-physical factors, a morph-sensitive person (ref.estreen) is able to control the morphing naturally, and on the other side of the coin, an emotional-wreck person loses control. Heck, EVEN ANIMALS CAN MORPH when they put their minds into it!!! What do these things tell you?
Also add to your revising, the fact that a Yeerk is able to retain control of the host's brain>body>morph even while in z-space. The Yeerk who is imperial, is still able to reign, be it the mind or the brain.

I am trying to relate your time theories to morphing, and not so much on 'dimensions', here.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2010, 08:08:32 AM by Gafrash »