Involuntary Infestation

[Terenia]

Is it ever okay?

Throughout over fifty books the Animorphs fight for the freedom of earth. The freedom to decide, the freedom to speak, the freedom for humans to exist on their own terms. After the war, the Yeerks are exiled into nothlitism and a new era of humanity begins. Slavery has been beaten down, rah rah rah.

Okay. So, let's say a few Yeerks stick around in their slug-like form. In the past we've mentioned using Yeerks as a method of controlling mental illness, or a possible sentence for law-breakers. Rob a bank? Here's a Yeerk-in-the-head who will not only make sure you complete your community service, but ensure that you will be a model citizen for the rest of your life. Kill someone? Why bother with the death sentence when you can shove a slug in their ear and be absolutely certain that they will never hurt another person?

Not to mention the possibilities when it comes to war. Interrogation techniques have been long under question, especially in the US with the whole torture thing under scrutiny. By infesting your enemy involuntarily, you'll get all the answers with none of the fuss.

Those are just a few possible scenarios, but the basic question is this:

Are there any circumstances that validate involuntary infestation?

[Phoenix004]

I don't think it's ever okay. Your points are valid, but (to me at least) not acceptable. Even if we could use Yeerks to turn criminals into "model citizens" it wouldn't be right because you might as well have killed that person, it would be more humane than making them a slave trapped inside their own body for life. Not to mention the fact that you can't guarantee that the Yeerk will NEVER commit a crime.

What's the point in literally forcing somebody to do community service when it technically isn't even them doing it? And I know not all criminals can realistically be rehabilitated into society, but by turning them all into Controllers you aren't even giving them a chance to change their ways. No crime is so terrible that the person responsible deserves to have their free will taken away.

[RYTX]

I don't remember talking about this a punishment for offense before....
but I like it!
Two things I'd look at in deciding though is one: the crime
rob a bank, I don't see what infestation would do. Literally, I there is a block for me seeing how that would be more of a deterant than any other punishment, and I don't see how a false role model is a model citizen at all. Murder, again, it gives the Yeerk a host fine, but that's still gonna show up and have a neg affect on the Yeerk if you try and but them back in society.
Interagation howevr, it'd be brilliant. Truly flawless, get an honest yeerk and it's bullet proof.
Except for the other point, which really should be asked first: When does it become okay to remove another persons rights of life? Infestation, imo, falls between prison and the death sentence, more complete but prison, but at least your not dead. And is it okay to do  that to someone. Lock up and capital punishment are themselves debatable, and so you need to decide when it's okay to force a manner of living onto someone else. Some say never. Some say as soon as they stick their gum under the table. (I'm in the latter group  btw)
And, I suppose a third point: how much of a punishment is it?
Yes you lose control, and the majority of experiences in the series imply these to be the ultimate torment, but my mind always goes back to the relation of Allison and Edriss, where for a time there is a positive association b/w the two, and really that can't be the only case.
You spend ALL of your time with some, you will find some level of connection, even if you still don't like them.
This is why I can't see it working for something like community service. Yes it's on your time, you're body doing it, you'll feel it somewhat in the morning, but you don't have to force up the will needed to do it.
Your body does it, but the whole time you're on cruise control and can be in your head making small talk with the Yeerk or thinking about how the next football game is gonna turn out. I'd never want to live a life as a controller, but to say you're in mental agony all day everyday because of it, I don't really believe it.
Sometimes it'd be nice to have a co-pilot run my body while doing yard work. Will is half the effort

[dolphin4077]

Putting aside the civil rights arguments, there's still the issue of Yeerk reliability.  How would we know if Yeerks decide to make a deal with the person they're suppose to punish?  Also if we put Yeerks in the heads of criminals and psychotics, we could end up with a lot of Taylor situations.  However, using a Yeerk instead of traditional interrogation methods is interesting.  It's good to have the information, especially if it saves lives.  But I don't think it should be used as evidence against the suspect at trial. 

[Terenia]

I imagine that if humans did use Yeerks as a tool in any way it would be on a conditional basis. As soon as a Yeerk failed to do what it was supposed to, it would be forced into nothlitism like the rest of its kind. Which of course begs the question of how moral it is to force Yeerks to become nothlits. Staying on topic, though, I think it would ensure that the Yeerks listen to what the humans in charge say. Additionally, I imagine that the military or government or whoever would have control over the Kandrona source. Someone else controlling your only sustenance kind of makes you pay attention.

[ThinkAgain]

My main question however, is whether or not that could be considered on par with enslaving the Yeerks - forcing them to do actions they may be unwilling to do with only a threat of punishment as motivation.

Also, I do not feel that forcing criminals to be hosts is productive in any way at all. The criminal learns nothing - they'll just go dormant in their minds and let the Yeerk do the community service or whatever, only to strike back with a vengeance if/when they are freed. Using them for interrogation is brilliant, but seems to invalidate human will in my opinion.

Yeerks still aren't evil. Visser Three doesn't represent his species any more or any less than Stalin represents humans. Nor do the Germans influenced by Hitler to hate Jews differ from the Yeerks taught by the Visser to value conquest and the crushing of a host's will.

I still think that getting the Yeerks something Parallel to the symbiosis the Iskoort utilize would be the ideal solution for the Yeerks. Nothlitism would be optional for Yeerks who want to escape dependance on Kondrona altogether.

[Terenia]

Well, I agree that forcing the Yeerks to do something against their will may be as bad as what the Yeerks are doing in the first place. But isn't that what happens when they're all forced to become nothlits anyhow?

[morfowt]

I mostly agree with RYTX. auto-pilot would be nice sometimes, especially when I have to do something I don't want to.

as for the yeerk reliability thing in interrogation, well is any method 100% reliable at all? not as far as I know. torture, just ask tobias. confession, he could've been lying. using yeerks would just be less of a hassle.

[Chad32]

I would rather have a heinous criminal infested than have them rot in jail leeching tax money, or pay the outrageous expenses that come with the death penalty. Though I would have concern for the Yeerks whose jobs bring them so close to such twisted individuals. It might not be healthy for the Yeerks.

I would label it as being sometimes justified, but a bit on the immoral side.

[goom]

I don't think it's ever okay. Your points are valid, but (to me at least) not acceptable. Even if we could use Yeerks to turn criminals into "model citizens" it wouldn't be right because you might as well have killed that person, it would be more humane than making them a slave trapped inside their own body for life

still, it's a just punishment for some terrible crimes.
plus, a free host body for a needy yeerk!

win win.

we'd only have to worry about the criminal rubbing off on the yeerk.

[anijen21]

is it weird that the only thing I think about when picturing your scenario is "what incentive does the Yeerk have to do all that?"

It's like double involuntary infestation, enslaving a human with a Yeerk who himself has no free will. WEIRD.

[Acalio-Laron-Jaham]

a really great and interesting and controversial topic that really gets you thinking.

I say yes, there are situations where i wold have no problem with using a yeerk. there are some people i know atm who are scum who more then deserves it. some deserve worst imo.

Especially for interrogation techniques on spies, traitors and terrorists, and for finding out if criminals and supposed criminals are guilty or not. And also for murderers. So they commit first degree murder, they gona get executed anyway. why waste them? why not give them to a yeerk, and then have the yeerk be a productive member to society, like maybe a cleaner or a engineer researching and improving fuel efficiency for cars with their technical knowledge?

Its simple. if you do not want to be given a yeerk permanently, then don't do the wrong thing. This way, only those who are evil would have something to be concerned about.    

[Chad32]

Right. It's more productive than having someone sit in a cell for decades because we can't trust them to be outside.

[Cloak]

[...] Its simple. if you do not want to be given a yeerk permanently, then don't do the wrong thing. This way, only those who are evil would have something to be concerned about.    

To be honest, I've found that things are rarely that simple.

What about a situation where someone was wrongly accused and the Yeerk did not want to give up the body, so lies when questioned?  True, the host can claim innocence every three days -- it doesn't mean anyone'll believe 'em.

I mean, that's just one possible scenario how it could go awry.

[Chad32]

It is possible that a Yeerk could commit a crime, but it's also possible to get inside a Yeerk's head and go through its memories. Like in Visser.