Did the Ellimist have a chance to destroy Crayak, and not take it?

[Visser Phi]

I'm thinking of that interval of time (corresponding to chapters 27 and 28 in The Ellimist Chronicles) right after the Ellimist dropped headfirst into a black hole and transformed into a godlike being, but before Crayak copied him and did the same.

During this period the Ellimist was immeasurably more powerful than Crayak. He was seemingly able to observe the entire galaxy and track Crayak wherever he went, manipulate time, and make a complete joke of Crayak's weapons. At this point Crayak was still tied down to physical components both organic and machine, and should by all rights have been easy prey for the Ellimist--teleporting an entire planet is in a completely different league from anything Crayak had ever done up to that point, even taking his and the Ellimist's previous solar-system destroying battles into account. Even if Crayak had graduated his original planetoid ship and housed himself in machines the size of stars, the Ellimist should have been able to crush him almost casually.

Not to mention what the Ellimist later says in chapter 29, that if he and post-singularity Crayak continue to duke it out, the whole universe would collapse. So a low estimate of the Ellimist's abilities would be that he's roughly powerful enough to annihilate half the universe by himself. I can't see any way for Death Star Crayak to compete.

So why wasn't he destroyed? Either I'm missing something very obvious, or the Ellimist had some ulterior motive for letting Crayak live (e.g. he was bored being nigh-omnipotent by himself and wanted to keep gaming).

Thoughts?

[DinosaurNothlit]

That's something I've wondered about myself.  I can only think of a few explanations, none of which seem to quite fit.  Perhaps, as you said, Ellimist was lonely and wanted to keep playing games with Crayak.  But that doesn't seem to fit his character; he never wanted to play games with sentient creatures in the first place.  He only ever did so because Crayak basically forced him to.

A slightly better explanation might be that Ellimist was too honorable to strike at Crayak when his opponent had no chance to defend himself.  He was an idealist, as others in that book have continually pointed out.  And perhaps he was actually right not to strike such a low blow to Crayak; doing so would have made him little better than Crayak himself.  And that may have been the first step down a slippery slope, and who knows?  Without Crayak there to balance him, the Ellimist may have become tempted by his own power into doing things he shouldn't.

Which draws me to another point.  Maybe Ellimist needs Crayak there to remind him of what is right.  They say that terrible situations bring out the best in people.  Maybe, without Crayak, Ellimist would have become Crayak.  Power corrupts, as they say.  But the Ellimist that we know and love always has Crayak there reminding him what will happen when power is abused.  In a world where that wasn't the case . . . well, it would be a very different scenario, at the very least.

Or, as a fourth possible explanation, maybe Ellimist just didn't realize that Crayak would be able to duplicate his feat.  He can't really see the future, after all, just a few possible ones.  The guy's not perfect, after all.  Maybe he just missed it.  So he figures "Oh, I have nothing to worry about."

[anijen21]

I agree with DinosaurNothlit. Not his style.

And I agree with the somewhat zen, buddhist view of the universe. Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely. Ellimist was the yin to his yang. You can't destroy the dark side lest you become it.

I'm not sure if the Ellimist believed in this brand of wisdom, but I think he was certainly above smiting someone, however evil, who could not defend themselves.

[Chad32]

He definitely could have done it, and from the way Crayak was protrayed he definitely deserved it. But everyone needs someone to keep them in check. In a series where everything is gray, I doubt that Crayak was completely evil.

[DinosaurNothlit]

Whoa.  Holy crud, I just thought of something.

What if Crayak isn't evil?

I mean, if my earlier theory is right, and the Ellimist actually does need Crayak so as not to become evil himself, then Crayak would have certainly realized that, too.  And a truly evil Crayak would much rather stand back and let the Ellimist be corrupted by his own power and destroy the world, right?  Because it's so much fun to watch good guys turn evil and destroy themselves with their own power, and then subsequently angst about 'oh, what have I done!?'    Any supervillain would leap at that opportunity.

So maybe, just maybe, Crayak knows that he has to be evil in order for Ellimist to be good!  Maybe that was his entire goal from the start!

This would explain why Crayak at least appears to be 'evil for the sake of evil,' which no one ever really is.  Nobody ever admits to being evil.  Nobody wants to be evil.  Sentient beings will always do what is right in their own minds.  Everyone always has reasons behind what they do, no matter how twisted and perverted those reasons are.  But, the thing that always bothered me was that Crayak doesn't.  Or at least, he doesn't seem to.  But maybe he does!  Maybe he's actually a good guy!

OMYGOD, this concept blows my mind.

[voodooqueen126]

you should read capnerrifir's stories on fanfiction.net... he portrays the crayak as not truly evil, though until you said this i didn't get why.

[Chad32]

I actually like how Crayak is described in book 26, as someone who's trying to breed the ultimate sentient lifeform. It reminds me of how Humans breed animals to get desired effects. Like how you have different breeds of dogs that perform different roles. Crayak is doing the same, except with sentient lifeforms. Except he just sees us as lesser, because we practically are. Even before he somehow replicates what the Ellemist accidentally does, he's practically a god.

That's the first description of him, and it makes some sense. He's not this completely evil eldrich abomination that likes to destroy things like some kid with a magnifying glass looming over an ant bed. He's just trying to mold his domain to his liking, which is what most people want to do.

[MoppingBear]

Whoa.  Holy crud, I just thought of something.

What if Crayak isn't evil?

I mean, if my earlier theory is right, and the Ellimist actually does need Crayak so as not to become evil himself, then Crayak would have certainly realized that, too.  And a truly evil Crayak would much rather stand back and let the Ellimist be corrupted by his own power and destroy the world, right?  Because it's so much fun to watch good guys turn evil and destroy themselves with their own power, and then subsequently angst about 'oh, what have I done!?'    Any supervillain would leap at that opportunity.

So maybe, just maybe, Crayak knows that he has to be evil in order for Ellimist to be good!  Maybe that was his entire goal from the start!

This would explain why Crayak at least appears to be 'evil for the sake of evil,' which no one ever really is.  Nobody ever admits to being evil.  Nobody wants to be evil.  Sentient beings will always do what is right in their own minds.  Everyone always has reasons behind what they do, no matter how twisted and perverted those reasons are.  But, the thing that always bothered me was that Crayak doesn't.  Or at least, he doesn't seem to.  But maybe he does!  Maybe he's actually a good guy!

OMYGOD, this concept blows my mind.

or maybe, the crayak doesnt know if elimmist will go evil, or super good if left to his own devices.  crayak may not be trully evil, but his motives are definitely counterintuitive to anyone who would consider themselves good.  the rules are likely in place so both get to do a little of what they want, but not too much.  the crayak doesnt want the destruction of the universe anymore than the elimmist does, and if they were to argue over every little decision, over what they could do with their full powers, then that is likely what would happen.  ideally of course, they should split the universe up, with elimmist having full control of one half, and crayak of the other, with rules in place only to prevent certain interactions between the two.  why dont they do this? loneliness probably.  they are the only two of their power level, so they enjoy their games, and actually having to think once in a while.  i dont think either would totally destroy the other given the chance.

[voodooqueen126]

having said all this, the crayaks evil does basically overwhelm everything else.

[anijen21]

I thought the Crayak's MO was to destroy everything.

Whether or not that is definitively evil would be a cool discussion.

[AniDragon]

Crayak kinda reminds me of the Daleks from Doctor Who. Anything that isn't him or created by him is bad, and thus should be destroyed. Maybe a little bit less extreme, since Crayak can think for himself, while the Daleks are programmed ultimate genocide... In which case Crayak would be more like Davros, the creator of the Daleks. He might use other species (like the Yeerks) to achieve his goal, but in the end, he wants him and his ultimate race (the Howlers) to be supreme.

[voodooqueen126]

Which is why arguments like "he balances the ellimist goodness and prevents the ellimist from becoming power drunk." Are perhaps unwarranted woobiefication/draco in leather pants. seriously the ellimist is conflicted enough and people make enough evil decisions causing evil results, that an all powerful devil creature 'balancing' an all good god creature is basically unneccesary.