Group Re-Read: MegaMorphs 3, Elfangor's Secret

[Intrepid]

More to come, but right now I've been mulling over the scene were Rachel is explaining the holocaust to Ax, and they remark that she flips over little things, but the big stuff makes her cold.
Completely understandable, but the that gets me is that, well, that stuff doesn't bother me anymore.
I think the first time I read this book I didn't really understand, but now, it's nothing more than history; stories that you learned in school. It does nothing to me emotionally anymore and somehow that makes it seem odd to me that Rachel reacted with such passion on the subject.
Granted, had I been thrown back into it, I may feel different, but flying servalance and discribing it, I couldn't react like that anymore.
Don't know why, but reading that makes me feel....hollow.
Just saying; more on the book later

Jake and Rachel are cousins, and Jewish. So for them, the Holocaust would be a personal thing, not just something in history to them.

[RYTX]

But that's just the thing; I never saw Rachel let her home life or past carry over, beyond the allegry effects in 12
She dealt in the moment, so seeing her react to something that may, or may not have happened to her ancients seemed odd. None of them, spare Ax seemed all big on their culture

Now; for the rest of the book
This one was so much fun; for me MM2 &3 top the first and last
How where all of them this bad at history.
I also felt that this was one of the few books that made a deal of comments on societal relations (beyond the oft mentioned fact that the Boy Scouts don't take gays )
There was sexism, racism, the omg we are killing each other by the bus load throughout history; I'm glad that didn't happen alot, but this one did it and did it well
It was heavy, it was funny, but I can't help but think going back in time and wiping out a guy would have no side effects. Cuz if it doesn't, man how insignifigant does that make life seem (again  )

[morfowt]

7) They eventually succeed in fixing the timeline by preventing John Berryman's existence. How do you think this may have altered subsequent timelines? Was this the best/only solution?

This seemed very iffy for me, actually. Because it's not John Berryman who found the Time Matrix, it's Visser Four. Even if he ends up in another host, he might still find the Time Matrix, and then they have to go through all this again.

Other than that, though I enjoyed the book. ^_^.

that's exactly what's been bothering me this whole time. How in the world does preventing him from being born stop all this?

oh yeah, did anyone else pick up the mistake in the book where ax is in osprey morph?

[Chad32]

I don't really understand the John Berryman thing. The only way that would work is if finding the TM was an accident that was prevented by Visser four being in a host that had no reason to ever go there. But then, how did he accidentally find the TM in the first place?

[filmstu2005]

If i'm not mistaken, I believe Jake was "chosen" to lead the pack b/c of his strong character traits and determination. The others were there b/c of their "special properties" and ties to the war, none of which was the leadership role. Rachel was an add-on.

[RYTX]

oh yeah, did anyone else pick up the mistake in the book where ax is in osprey morph?

Yes

I don't really understand the John Berryman thing. The only way that would work is if finding the TM was an accident that was prevented by Visser four being in a host that had no reason to ever go there. But then, how did he accidentally find the TM in the first place?

Theory: Berryman is from somewhere near the Animorphs, which makes sense seeing as the TM and the bases of Yeerk forces are obviously there.
No Berryman, there's still V4, but maybe he has a host that's not localed as closely. Or the host simply doesn't have time to wander around construction sites like a crappy Shakespearian actor does; to keep face he'd be busy doing something else.
My theory anyway; though I still don't know how he managed to find it.

[Terenia]

Maybe it wasn't buried deep enough and something with the old construction had uncovered a small part of it? No one would know what it is (ooh shiny rock!) unless you know what to look for.

Which begs the question....how did he know what to look for? From what I gather, the Time Matrix (and the Ellimist) are a part of Andalite folklore. I wouldn't think that the Yeerks would be that attuned to such things

[dolphin4077]

Which begs the question....how did he know what to look for? From what I gather, the Time Matrix (and the Ellimist) are a part of Andalite folklore. I wouldn't think that the Yeerks would be that attuned to such things

The only explanation I can think of is that I'm pretty sure in #18 the Andalite that turned traitor mentioned Visser 4 and 3 were good friends.  After Leera they more than likely had a falling out because no way would Visser 3 want to be associated with the demoted Visser 4, hence the bitter attitude V4 has for V3.  However, while they were friends maybe Visser 3 imparted some of his Andalite knowledge to Visser 4.  I bet they caught a kick out of Andalite boogeyman stories. 

[Shark Akhrrana]

Maybe Crayak told him indirectly to get his plan going.  Crayak had to get rid of Jake in a sneaky way that seemed like he didn't interfere.

[morfowt]

I like the crayak theory best... and it solves the problem of how preventing him from being born stopped it all. crayak knew the animorphs would just stop it again, like the first time, so he stopped trying.

[adamjared]

We know that the Ellimist was in contact with the Animorphs (a few occasions before this), so are we supposed to believe that Crayak didn't do the same with the Yeerks? No. I beleive that Crayak and Ellimist agreed on rules before they started their game (which I believe was originally just the yeerks against the Andalites), and i think that limited contact with the "Game-Peices" was allowed. So Crayak is probably in contact (via Drode) with the yeerks. But this conflicts with the reason why the Animorphs went after Visser 4, the Crayak and Ellimist BOTH believed it was too dangerous for a normal Yeerk to have the technology of the Time Matrix. Does this mean that Crayak told Visser 4, hoping to get an advantage, then realizing that this might actually harm the Yeerk race, and Ellimist agreed with him that they should try and stop this yeerk? I think so. anyways, i g2g so i'll probably come back and post more about this.

[Shark Akhrrana]

oh sharky agrees with you Mr Ellimist
Sharky does agree. i think it was all part of their little rules . of interfearing withoiut seeming liek they are.

[Liberal Tobias]

We know that the Ellimist was in contact with the Animorphs (a few occasions before this), so are we supposed to believe that Crayak didn't do the same with the Yeerks? No. I beleive that Crayak and Ellimist agreed on rules before they started their game (which I believe was originally just the yeerks against the Andalites), and i think that limited contact with the "Game-Peices" was allowed. So Crayak is probably in contact (via Drode) with the yeerks. But this conflicts with the reason why the Animorphs went after Visser 4, the Crayak and Ellimist BOTH believed it was too dangerous for a normal Yeerk to have the technology of the Time Matrix. Does this mean that Crayak told Visser 4, hoping to get an advantage, then realizing that this might actually harm the Yeerk race, and Ellimist agreed with him that they should try and stop this yeerk? I think so. anyways, i g2g so i'll probably come back and post more about this.

No.

Crayak gave Visser 4 access to the Time Matrix knowing full well that the Ellimist would not allow V4 to keep it. Notice the terms of the negotiation- not only the Ellimist has to send his own guys to recover it, but Crayak gets to negotiate (basically) Jake's life out of the deal? Much like the Ellimist, Crayak is trying to achieve an end in as roundabout way as possible, and he's using the Time Matrix as a red herring. While it's probably not ideal for V4 to have the Time Matrix for any extended period of time, he has much less to lose than the Ellimist does by letting V4 have it, so he's able to manipulate a desperate Ellimist into giving up one of his prize allies in Jake. He left a giant-ass loophole in it (of course, in The Exposed, The Drode mentions that "Da Rules" say that there has to be a way out, so maybe that's why the causality loophole existed), but otherwise, it's a damn fine masterstroke by Crayak.

Basically, this is Crayak in Elfangor's Secret: