Author Topic: How many Andalites died when they invented the morphing??  (Read 5389 times)

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Offline JFalcon

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Re: How many andalites died when they invated the morphing??
« Reply #45 on: February 15, 2009, 03:28:42 PM »
Maybe some hairbrained Andalites wanted to invent it for recreation but when the war broke out they realized it could be used for spying? Also think of Ax escaping the dome ship, he captured a Tiger shark and acquired it from deep in the ocean without flooding his dome or drowning or, apparently, killing the shark. That kind of thing could have meant the andalites could have captured individuals of species from planets they visited and blended right in for research purposes, or to survive enviroments or something.
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Offline Azguard

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Re: How many andalites died when they invated the morphing??
« Reply #46 on: February 15, 2009, 10:05:26 PM »
actually, about surviving environments...that sounds like a good reason. would be kewl if they blended the beginning of morphing technology with the end of the series, the kelbrids.
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Offline Aquilai

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Re: How many andalites died when they invated the morphing??
« Reply #47 on: February 16, 2009, 06:48:06 AM »
Actually I quite like that idea only thing is 2hours doesn't really help you survive for very long in a hostile environment or for long term study. Otherwise though it's like putting adaptation for survival to the extreme which is pretty smart.
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Offline JFalcon

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Re: How many andalites died when they invated the morphing??
« Reply #48 on: February 16, 2009, 09:37:58 AM »
The two hour limit might just be the best they could do at the time, maybe they were still improving on it. I mean good technology can only be improved on, eh?
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Offline Gaz

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Re: How many andalites died when they invated the morphing??
« Reply #49 on: February 16, 2009, 02:49:55 PM »
I can imagine there were a few things that went wrong in the development process. I wonder how many Andalites got caught as nothlits while discovering there was a time limit. Like, was the time limit something they planned for or was it a result of what they were doing?

Offline JFalcon

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Re: How many andalites died when they invated the morphing??
« Reply #50 on: February 16, 2009, 03:28:17 PM »
I for one wonder why they never (seemingly) developed a cure for Nothlits (Arbron's never being cured implies that there wasn't one, Tobias on the other hand might simply never have asked and therefore never been told) or why a nothlit can't simply regain morphing power from a cube.

I mean if a nothlit becomes trapped in a morph it stops being a morph so it becomes their actual body and there shouldn't be a reason that they can't reacquire the morphing power, I mean the mere fact that Loren could acquire Tobias' hawk body proves that it stoped being a morph because it's stated flatly that you can't acquire someone else's morph.

I think there might be a reason that the scientists didn't want nothlits regaining the ability to morph, I think it may have been diliberate. The question then would be: why? I mean maybe the two hour limit was also diliberate, maybe it's all about disciplin, forcing warriors not to get too attatched to temporary bodies but it seems a little harsh.
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Offline DinosaurNothlit

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Re: How many andalites died when they invated the morphing??
« Reply #51 on: February 16, 2009, 03:35:02 PM »
I for one wonder why they never (seemingly) developed a cure for Nothlits (Arbron's never being cured implies that there wasn't one, Tobias on the other hand might simply never have asked and therefore never been told) or why a nothlit can't simply regain morphing power from a cube.

I mean if a nothlit becomes trapped in a morph it stops being a morph so it becomes their actual body and there shouldn't be a reason that they can't reacquire the morphing power, I mean the mere fact that Loren could acquire Tobias' hawk body proves that it stoped being a morph because it's stated flatly that you can't acquire someone else's morph.

I think there might be a reason that the scientists didn't want nothlits regaining the ability to morph, I think it may have been diliberate. The question then would be: why? I mean maybe the two hour limit was also diliberate, maybe it's all about disciplin, forcing warriors not to get too attatched to temporary bodies but it seems a little harsh.

Maybe the two-hour limit (and the subsequent restriction on nothlits regaining the morphing power) was deliberate, but not with Andalites in mind.  Maybe it was a security measure, in case someone else ever got their hands on a blue box, someone who didn't know about the time limit.  Under that assumption, it would seem that the two-hour time limit should have been a closely guarded Andalite secret . . . but I guess it didn't stay that way.

I mean, what better penalty to give to your enemies who steal your technology?  They're going along, morphing whatever without a care in the world, and all of a sudden, they can't demorph, and they can't regain the morphing power.  That would suck.

Offline JFalcon

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Re: How many andalites died when they invated the morphing??
« Reply #52 on: February 16, 2009, 03:39:10 PM »
A very good point DinosaurNothlit, I hadn't considered that but it sounds like a reasonable and realistic explanation.
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Offline Aquilai

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Re: How many andalites died when they invated the morphing??
« Reply #53 on: February 16, 2009, 04:17:57 PM »
A more real life (but kinda pessimistic/killjoy) view would be that at the time of writing KA hadn't quite decided whether or not to give Tobias his human form back and just wanted to leave the idea open. Sorry!
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Offline JFalcon

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Re: How many andalites died when they invated the morphing??
« Reply #54 on: February 17, 2009, 09:17:36 AM »
A more real life (but kinda pessimistic/killjoy) view would be that at the time of writing KA hadn't quite decided whether or not to give Tobias his human form back and just wanted to leave the idea open. Sorry!

Well sure, it's true any inconsistency or scientific flaw in the series is human error/fantasy and that none of this is real technology, but if people can have actual intelectual debates about the evolutionary paths and likelihood of Gargoyles and Fraggles (which is a totally fun way to pass time) I say we can pretend the Andalites had a method to their own madness too  :D
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Offline Shock

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Re: How many andalites died when they invated the morphing??
« Reply #55 on: February 17, 2009, 11:15:10 AM »
Maybe some hairbrained Andalites wanted to invent it for recreation

makes you wonder what type of recreation we are talking about here..
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Offline Phoenix004

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Re: How many Andalites died when they invented the morphing??
« Reply #56 on: February 17, 2009, 03:44:23 PM »
I fixed the typo in the title, hope you don't mind...

Personally I find it quite hilarious to imagine all the things that could have gone wrong during the developement of the technology. There's literally a billion things that could have gone wrong in the experimental changes. You could have ended up with limbs or organs missing, some parts put back in the wrong places, getting trapped as a mutated hybrid, etc.

Ever wonder how the morphing technology blocks the pain of the transformation process? Imagine what would happen if the pain killer didn't work!  :-\
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Offline wildweathel

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Re: How many Andalites died when they invented the morphing??
« Reply #57 on: February 18, 2009, 04:32:56 PM »
Well if everyones okay with cross-cannon arguments from Card's Ender universe, here goes some crazy theoretical fun...

The whole trick behind morphing is radical alteration/rebuilding of physical form while retaining the same mind(more-or-less)/memories/identity ("spirit" for the sake of discussion, okay?).  As best as I can tell, the morphing works like this:
  • Acquire a pattern for a new body.  This contains more than just mere DNA, since things like iris pattern and fingerprints (which are not DNA-generated at all) are preserved.
  • Establish a new master-blueprint for the body
  • Initiate rapid regeneration with the new blueprint as a target
  • Use z-space to violate conservation-of-mass, and perhaps partially to power the whole thing.  (Not entirely though, morphing is described as being exhausting, though exactly what the cause is isn't covered).
  • Somehow keep the original blueprint around, as well as the blueprint file (although they are not accessible)
  • Reestablish original blueprint and cascade-regenerate again to morph back.

The second-to-last point is where the two-hour limit seems to come in.  Beyond two hours a nothlit loses his original form and all other forms in the file.  That's why Tobias is never able to morph Dude even after Ellimist returns his ability.

It still doesn't entirely make sense to me why nothlits have special rules:
1) Nothlits cannot regain morphing ability from an Escafil device.
2) Nothlits cannot be acquired.

(These are both cannon, right?)

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Offline DinosaurNothlit

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Re: How many Andalites died when they invented the morphing??
« Reply #58 on: February 18, 2009, 10:02:44 PM »
2) Nothlits cannot be acquired.

It never says that nothlits can't be acquired, only that a normal morph can't.  Actually, Tobias is acquired at a few points towards the end of the series, but it's never really clear whether that's because he's a nothlit or because of what the Ellimist did to him in restoring his powers.  I always thought it was the former, though.

Offline Aquilai

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Re: How many Andalites died when they invented the morphing??
« Reply #59 on: February 19, 2009, 03:04:21 PM »
I think there's another post specifically about morphing but I'll put it here anyway. What I thought happened with Tobias was that the Ellimist removed whatever effect of the morphing cube from Elfangor's (kindness) so that it was like a reset. Tobias regained the exact same morphing as the rest of the group so that he wasn't a nothlit anymore. So the hawk would be his base form.

Kinda like if say an ant acquired morphing technology....
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"People live their lives bound by what they accept as correct and true. That's how they define "reality". But what does it mean to be "correct" or "true"? Merely vague concepts… their "reality" may all be a mirage. Can we consider them to simply be living in their own world, shaped by their beliefs?"