Author Topic: Group Re-Read: #19 The Departure  (Read 4547 times)

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Offline Terenia

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Group Re-Read: #19 The Departure
« on: January 24, 2009, 07:31:32 PM »
Summary
Cassie's had it. After the last mission, she realizes she's getting tired of missions. Tired of battles. Tired of being an Animorph. She decides that she just can't do it anymore. So she quits.

But that's not the worst that's happened. It seems a human-Controller named Karen followed Cassie after the last run-in with the Yeerks. And she knows Cassie is an Andalite...or human. Either way, if she exposes Cassie, it's all over. No more Cassie. No more Animorphs. No more planet Earth...


Questions
1) Does Cassie's decision to quit come as a surprise to you? She reasons that she is quitting to avoid becoming numb over the war. Do you think this is a good reason to quit? Or selfish?

2) What do you think about the time Karen/Afran and Cassie spend together? What about the deal they make?

3) Was it a good idea for the Animorphs to honor the deal Cassie and Aftran had? Or too risky?

4) Quotes to comment on:

Quote
Rachel had an expression I've almost never seen on her face: She was hurt.
"Rachel, we can still be --"
"No, we can't," she said, cutting me off. "See, you've just said the whole world can drop dead, so long as you, Cassie, don't have to end up turning into me."

Quote
<Maybe we'll lose, maybe we'll win," I [Jake] said. <But if we win and someday it's all over, you'd better hope there are still plenty of Cassies in the world. You'd better hope that not everyone has decided it's okay to do whatever it takes to win.>


5) Do you think Aftran's change of heart was portrayed realistically?

6) Anything else?


Next week: #20, The Discovery

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Offline Chad32

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Re: Group Re-Read: #19 The Departure
« Reply #1 on: January 24, 2009, 07:41:22 PM »
I actually wasn't too surprised. If anyone else besides Marco was going to try to quit the group, it would be Cassie. It was selfish of her, I think. Taking a break wouldn't be too bad. Heck, Jake took a break before The Unexpected. I think that was the book.

About Cassie and Aftran. I believe Cassie was going by her heart instead of her head, which is often not a good idea. She did wind up saving Karen, and aftran later saved Ax. I forget if Aftran started the YPM, or just joined an already existing YPM.

It was very risky for them to let Aftran go. I don't know what I would have done if I was there.

Rachel and Jake were both right in those quotes. Everyone has their place in the world. Cassies, Rachles, and others in between.


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Offline morfowt

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Re: Group Re-Read: #19 The Departure
« Reply #2 on: January 24, 2009, 09:52:58 PM »
1. my head calls it selfish, because she's only thinking of herself. my heart calls it a good reason, cuz any normal person would do that, even I'd do the same thing, only earlier...

3. risky yes, but if they didn't, cassie's sacrifice (well it was a sacrifice back then) would've been in vain, which I feel would be worse...

5. it depends on how she felt before they met. if she already had slight doubts about doing it, then yes it's believable...

6. this whole book, from top to bottom, from the minute cassie quit to the minute she got trapped in morph, from the first page, to the last page was about the shades of grey...which I really like about this book...

Offline dolphin4077

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Re: Group Re-Read: #19 The Departure
« Reply #3 on: January 25, 2009, 12:10:42 PM »
1.  I empathize, but it's still selfish. 
2.  I thought their interaction was great.  It was really cool to see another side of the Yeerks, especially so soon after finding out not all Andalites are good guys.  As for the deal, I thought it was a brilliant way to test both of their characters.  But the more I think about it, does anyone else think it was a little weird Cassie was willing to make a huge sacrifice for an enemy but not for her friends.
3.  Risky, yes, but I liked that it proved to be a good thing. 
4.  The first quote was the one I was I thinking about when answering MM2 questions. It's also the reason why I thought Cassie's decision was selfish.  As for the second quote, it helped me stopped being mad at Cassie.  She's important too, especially when she stands up for the things that would make everything easier if they could forget.
5.  I believed it.

Btw, anyone have any thoughts on Marco's role in this book?  Why did KAA have him be the one that first finds Cassie?  Personally, I thought he showed a lot of layers of character in this book.
 

Offline Chad32

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Re: Group Re-Read: #19 The Departure
« Reply #4 on: January 25, 2009, 12:15:30 PM »
Probably because he was the first Animorph to consider leaving the group. That's what I think, anyway. He'd also be one of the two most likely to say Aftran should just die. He and Ax would be least likely to agree with what she was doing, I think.


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Offline Gafrash

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Re: Group Re-Read: #19 The Departure
« Reply #5 on: January 26, 2009, 11:02:29 PM »
I thoroughly enjoyed the way The Departure unfolded. Full of memmorable moments. And I LOVED ITS ENDING!!!
It is this ending that makes me not understand what K.A. is on about with the whole 'No happy endings in war' argument, but, anyways, this is the deepest meaninful Animorphs book I've read. There's just so much at play here!

The Departure becomes a big stepping stone in Cassie path through the series. Does anyone else feel reverberations of this story towards the series end?! Actually, even in Jake's narration I get this feeling. too. 

It explores Cassie's complexity. In my mind Cassie is a superhero because of this story... I don't know many humans that could do what she does.
Cassie not only put her friends, but HER OWN LIFE, in front of her morals, of what she believed in.  She jumped a ferocious leopard, in HUMAN FORM, to protect the enemy!!!! Any average human being would have done the rational. Neglected the little 'enemy' to die. It was the only safe solution. Much like with the solution Cassie herself found for the Animorph traitor, David.
But Cassie's intuit wouldn't let her. With it she found another way.

Cassie is a prime example of Irrational X Rational turning out to be good. She is to be admired. I am ashamed to say I would not have been capable of such feats. I certainly wouldn'have had the balls to become a 'caterpillar-nothlit'.



1) Does Cassie's decision to quit come as a surprise to you? She reasons that she is quitting to avoid becoming numb over the war. Do you think this is a good reason to quit? Or selfish?
...As for the deal, I thought it was a brilliant way to test both of their characters.  But the more I think about it, does anyone else think it was a little weird Cassie was willing to make a huge sacrifice for an enemy but not for her friends....

What did surprise me, and I agree with dolphin4077 above; the only bone I have to pick at Cassie in the story, is the feeling that she put her friends second to her morals... This book literally proves that her morals come before anything in her life. Even the life of her friends, even the freedom of Earth, etc... she carried herself like nothing can come before her morals here.
She was literally saving her sworn enemy instead of protecting her friends. But there was more to it than that, wasn't there?! The thing is that Cassie had Karen in the equation during the whole ordeal. Cassie lets Aftran into her, so she could save the innocent little child.
I don't think there was a good reason, and Cassie is anything but selfish. But a girl that was truly conflicted by what she was preaching and what she was doing.


Btw, anyone have any thoughts on Marco's role in this book?  Why did KAA have him be the one that first finds Cassie?  Personally, I thought he showed a lot of layers of character in this book.
I think, maybe, K.A. opted for Marco being the one to find Cassie because of their character contrasts. It only showed, that if Marco (who had given her a somewhat hard time early in the story and at this stage was on the way to becoming calculating and somewhat ruthless) had the capacity to accept Cassie's 'project' with the enemy here, there's no reason the others shouldn't.
In the end, both him AND Jake, along with the others had to make the same decision.


2) What do you think about the time Karen/Afran and Cassie spend together? What about the deal they make?
It was the classic 'disarm and convert the powerful enemy' plot, wasn't it? And yet, luckily, their deal had worked out so well. Aftran, in the end, turned out not to be like the other Yeerks, ruthless and thirsty for power. I think had Cassie come across, say, Tom's Yeerk that was in Jake's head, things would have been a 'little' different. In particular to where she let the Yeerk into herself.
I think later one Cassie would have flashed to this experience, of feeling the a Yeerk's giddy over being a bird. It makes me wonder, at what stage after getting the Blue Cube, would Cassie have seen the potential for a way out of this war.


2.  I thought their interaction was great.  It was really cool to see another side of the Yeerks, especially so soon after finding out not all Andalites are good guys... 
Also, it is in this book that KA triggers our sympathy for the Yeerks.
The Yeerks, as twisted and evil, as I think they are, are still worthy of pity and 'sorry'.
In my view, Prince Seerow, and the Andalites of that time, did the Yeerk species a great deal of injustice (well-meant as it was, don't get me wrong) by showing them what they didn't and couldn't know. Only natural evolution should dictate whether a species is right and ready to conceive new wisdoms and different faculties. As it is, the Yeerks evolved sentient helpless, but perfectly fine and actually thriving in their Homeworld's pool. Infact, they had created their language of ultrasonic squeaks (or whatever) and governing system of the Council of Thirteen and so on. What's more, they were slugs with parasitic properties.

To them, and to any parasite, 'slavery' is a human concept, yes. And in their world, their planet gave them the circustances to infest different hosts and experience their world through different senses. The Gedds and whatever other creatures they infested would have been appropriated/adapted for their parasitic lifestyles.
These are all things of THEIR Homeworld. Much like we have parasitic life beings on our planet here. They aren't considered truly evil. It's the way Nature worked.
The minute these guys turned foot on the Andalites and spread throughout the galaxy, they became evil to me. AND cowards, because they began hiding behind bodies of innocent individuals; abandoning them when pain or imminent death reached their hosts.
They were craving for something regardless of the means.


3) Was it a good idea for the Animorphs to honor the deal Cassie and Aftran had? Or too risky?
Waaaaaaaay too risky!
Even with Aftran keeping her part of the deal, there really was NO GUARANTEE she could have omitted all the Animorphs secrets with the Yeerk technology she would have been subjected to in the Empire. She would have been interrogated by her sub-visser and what's more her host may also speak. It was a big risk! No questions about it!

4) Quotes to comment on:

Quote
Rachel had an expression I've almost never seen on her face: She was hurt.
"Rachel, we can still be --"
"No, we can't," she said, cutting me off. "See, you've just said the whole world can drop dead, so long as you, Cassie, don't have to end up turning into me."
This is Rachel getting offended by Cassie's indericted underlying message about her morals. And I could relate to her feeling abashed by Cassie's conduct, too. I don't think I could be best friends with someone who doesn't say it but secretly ultimately disapproves of my person. Rachel is literally the opposite of Cassie. Unlike Cassie, Rachel would have put her morals and safety before the safety of her friends on the line, any time, any day, and I say good on her!

Quote
<Maybe we'll lose, maybe we'll win," I [Jake] said. <But if we win and someday it's all over, you'd better hope there are still plenty of Cassies in the world. You'd better hope that not everyone has decided it's okay to do whatever it takes to win.>
Jake had more than his responsibility at stake here. But I don't think he fully understood, nor believed, what he was stating here. Had he believed a word he said here, he wouldn't have felt so jaded by what Cassie had pulled on him in The Ultimate.

Quote
'Life is sacred. Even the life of an Enemy.'
I have posted this quote on another thread, because it's something I truly took into my person from this series. It's the reason why Cassie is such an interesting complex character. I can't bring myself to hate anyone who, like Cassie, leads their life following this philosophy. EVEN inspite fighting a war.


5) Do you think Aftran's change of heart was portrayed realistically?
Hmmm... Hard to say. They didn't exactly become best of friends at the end, so I would say, yes.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2009, 11:09:43 PM by Gafrash »

Offline Gafrash

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Re: Group Re-Read: #19 The Departure
« Reply #6 on: January 26, 2009, 11:04:47 PM »
6) Anything else?
I got some questions and ponders to add:

 
Question: HOW on Earth can a little girl keep up with a wolf through the bush?! AND under an overcast night!!??
 
Question: How could Aftran have arranged for the little girl Karen to have been truly 'freed' and, thus, kept her end of the bargain? And wouldn't the Yeerks have seen the news, with the whole 'Mushroom eating lost girl in the woods' happening at the same time and location as one of their Controllers was missing, a little too much of a coincidence?!

Question: How long does it truly take for a butterfly to emerge from its crysalis?! And at what point would the 'clock' re-set?

 
 
Curious Ponder: The Anis must live in a very exotic region. Their town is near the coast, with mountains, forests, rivers and great waterfalls... and all this wildlife. In this one story we get cameos of a black bear, a leopard... and even some deer. Plus, some dude has a private zoo of some sort. Daaaayyuumm!!!
 
'What if' Ponder: Can anyone imagine different the resolution to the war on Earth would have been had the other Animorphs killed Karen, or even starved Aftran, right there at the end?!
 
Confusing Ponder: In this book, Aftran says that Yeerks cannot see. They are blind. Period!
This is what confuses the hell out of me. Because it explains why the Anis that demorphed in the pool never got infested. But it doesn't explain how Cassie describes the sonar thing in and OUT of the pool environment. In the Yeerk pool, the Yeerks would have developed a way to help the Yeerk individual detect their host's earcanal. But outside of the pool??!?!?! It doesn't make sense.
Anyone think this is a KASU with what we learn down the series.


PS: I've also got this illustration based on the beginning of the story that I would love to post, but I am on holidays still with no access to scanner where I am at. NNNGHAAAAAAAAAARRRG H!

Offline morfowt

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Re: Group Re-Read: #19 The Departure
« Reply #7 on: January 27, 2009, 11:11:52 AM »
What if: well, ax would die in book 29, for starters...no ax, well, way too much things to list...

Offline Chad32

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Re: Group Re-Read: #19 The Departure
« Reply #8 on: January 27, 2009, 11:16:56 AM »
Yeah, I think I already mentioned that. Ax would be dead if Aftran hadn't saved him. Does anyone else think it's really lucky that the one Cassie grabbed was actually aftran? She didn't even know for sure.


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Offline morfowt

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Re: Group Re-Read: #19 The Departure
« Reply #9 on: January 27, 2009, 11:52:51 AM »
no, but the odds aren't that high cuz cassie told aftran to stay close to her, so there's just slightly less than 50% chance of grabbing aftran

Offline Chad32

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Re: Group Re-Read: #19 The Departure
« Reply #10 on: January 27, 2009, 12:02:40 PM »
Yeah, she did say that. Aftran would be trying her best while the other Yeerks are probably just trying to stay away.


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Offline dolphin4077

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Re: Group Re-Read: #19 The Departure
« Reply #11 on: January 27, 2009, 12:29:52 PM »

Quote
<Maybe we'll lose, maybe we'll win," I [Jake] said. <But if we win and someday it's all over, you'd better hope there are still plenty of Cassies in the world. You'd better hope that not everyone has decided it's okay to do whatever it takes to win.>
Quote from Gafrash: Jake had more than his responsibility at stake here. But I don't think he fully understood, nor believed, what he was stating here. Had he believed a word he said here, he wouldn't have felt so jaded by what Cassie had pulled on him in The Ultimate.

Actually, I think Jake was wrong about Cassie.  She will do anything to win, but she'll do things in the most unexpected way because her goals are different and less straightforward; she plays a different game than the others.  I think her actions in The Ultimate and The Departure prove that.   
« Last Edit: January 27, 2009, 12:31:24 PM by dolphin4077 »

Offline Terenia

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Re: Group Re-Read: #19 The Departure
« Reply #12 on: January 27, 2009, 07:42:33 PM »
Quote
Question: How could Aftran have arranged for the little girl Karen to have been truly 'freed' and, thus, kept her end of the bargain? And wouldn't the Yeerks have seen the news, with the whole 'Mushroom eating lost girl in the woods' happening at the same time and location as one of their Controllers was missing, a little too much of a coincidence?!

Not only that, but how did the free Karen escape the Yeerk Pool, where we know Gleet Biofilter's are in place? How did she continue up her Yeerk duties of relaying information about her father?

A lot of 'what if's. Perhaps it is a KASU. Perhaps Aftran found a way around all of it. She was pretty smart, it's possible. Maybe an idea for a ficlet?

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Offline Chad32

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Re: Group Re-Read: #19 The Departure
« Reply #13 on: January 27, 2009, 07:46:08 PM »
I don't know how aftran could convince them to leave Karen alone, or how she explained using thoughtspeak at one point. That may have eventually lead to her capture. Or was another reason specified in 29?


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Offline AniDragon

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Re: Group Re-Read: #19 The Departure
« Reply #14 on: January 27, 2009, 08:08:01 PM »
I always assumed that the gleet bio-filters detected things that weren't supposed to be there, not necessarily things that were missing.

As for how Karen got out... Aftran probably explained the plan to her. She would be brought back to the pool as normal, and her head ducked in, only this time Aftran wouldn't go back in her. So when she brought her head back up, she just had to pretend like she was infested again, and then walk out.
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Offline Gafrash

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Re: Group Re-Read: #19 The Departure
« Reply #15 on: January 27, 2009, 09:04:46 PM »
Focus people, focus.

Maybe Karen didn't have to enter the pool for Aftran to be safe. Aftran may have meticulously cooked something up while in Karen's head still. Instructing her to stay away from certain spots and push to get her family out of the country or something. But then I don't understand why Karen stayed in the same town, where she was seen later at the Mall. Surely she would have been spotted by known Controllers. But maybe Aftran would have instructed the little girl to say things that would throw them off, faking being a Controller still, dunno.
The Yeerk Aftran would have had to have a accomplise aid in getting down to the Yeerk pool and remaining unnoticed. But while there it's hard to know what she could have done to join the YPMovement. I think the YPMovement faction was already manifesting at that stage.


Quote
<Maybe we'll lose, maybe we'll win," I [Jake] said. <But if we win and someday it's all over, you'd better hope there are still plenty of Cassies in the world. You'd better hope that not everyone has decided it's okay to do whatever it takes to win.>
Quote from Gafrash: Jake had more than his responsibility at stake here. But I don't think he fully understood, nor believed, what he was stating here. Had he believed a word he said here, he wouldn't have felt so jaded by what Cassie had pulled on him in The Ultimate.

Actually, I think Jake was wrong about Cassie.  She will do anything to win, but she'll do things in the most unexpected way because her goals are different and less straightforward; she plays a different game than the others.  I think her actions in The Ultimate and The Departure prove that.   

I agree. In a way, Cassie also does 'whatever it takes'. Because she doesn't think 'rationally', she'll pull something c-o-m-p-l-e-t-e-l-y unexpected. But I think she's incapable of doing something at the cost of her consciousness.

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Re: Group Re-Read: #19 The Departure
« Reply #16 on: January 28, 2009, 01:12:14 PM »
I just wanna comment

This was almost one of my favorite books in the series.
It was an interesting and creative plot, and was beautifully written. It was very emotional and it introduced some compelling views on the all the characters as well as their enemies.
HOWEVER
I cannot, cannot and never will come to like how this book ended.
That damn last paragraph, last line drives me into a white hot rage everytime.
"Whip out you credit card......we're adding some color"?!
It makes me sick.
It makes me think of some crappy freeze frame ending to an old movie, and for that reason alone I can never give this book the respect it truly deserves.
Sorry

Okay, had to say that. Felt good
« Last Edit: January 28, 2009, 01:18:25 PM by RYTX »
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Offline Chad32

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Re: Group Re-Read: #19 The Departure
« Reply #17 on: January 28, 2009, 01:16:35 PM »
Yeah. Why would a 13-14 year old need a credit card anyway? You know, I think that may be the only time something like that is mentioned in the series.


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Offline Terenia

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Re: Group Re-Read: #19 The Departure
« Reply #18 on: January 28, 2009, 06:19:32 PM »
I think Rachel had a credit card. I think in one of the earlier books she mentioned that she was 'putting it under strain' or something. Odds are its their mom or dads card, but they ordered one in their kids name. My parents used to do that for me. I had a card that was linked to my parents JCPenney's account.

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Offline Liz

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Re: Group Re-Read: #19 The Departure
« Reply #19 on: January 28, 2009, 07:52:27 PM »
Yeah. Why would a 13-14 year old need a credit card anyway? You know, I think that may be the only time something like that is mentioned in the series.

To buy computer equipment for Ax, of course.  ;)

I think that's what Rachel used hers for later in the series.

Offline Gafrash

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Re: Group Re-Read: #19 The Departure
« Reply #20 on: January 29, 2009, 03:28:28 AM »
...This was almost one of my favorite books in the series.
It was an interesting and creative plot, and was beautifully written. It was very emotional and it introduced some compelling views on the all the characters as well as their enemies.
HOWEVER
I cannot, cannot and never will come to like how this book ended.
That damn last paragraph, last line drives me into a white hot rage everytime.
"Whip out you credit card......we're adding some color"?!
It makes me sick.
It makes me think of some crappy freeze frame ending to an old movie, and for that reason alone I can never give this book the respect it truly deserves....

Hehehe! As stories go, I thought The Departure was needing that 'happy ending' lift to finish up on. It gives that sense of optimism and hope, which IS what the story was trying to portray, I believe.
Over the top as the 'credit card' thing may be, think of it as a 'happy' tool to lighten the ending up.
Not sure if it really makes you sick, though. It just goes to show that the whole 'happy ending cliche' thing WAS something KA used to do. She just decided to NOT do it with the ending of the series in general, which is what I think you may like, RYTX...

Rachel seems to have come from a pretty well off American family. How else would a Mall rat, as she is described, buy so much clothing and fashion accessories without the use of her very own credit card?!
It isn't really THAT hard to imagine.... You see teenage kids swiping their credit cards e-v-e-r-y day.

It's more surprising to me that they weren't using personal mobile phones... It was growing big in the nineties, wasn't it?!


 

Offline Terenia

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Re: Group Re-Read: #19 The Departure
« Reply #21 on: January 29, 2009, 07:37:16 AM »
I do think it would have done just as well ending on a hopeful note, instead of a happy note. Perhaps ending just a few seconds earlier, with Cassie's confrontation of Karen.

"I'm free, Cassie. I'm free."

End book.

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Re: Group Re-Read: #19 The Departure
« Reply #22 on: January 29, 2009, 04:52:22 PM »
Yeah. Why would a 13-14 year old need a credit card anyway? You know, I think that may be the only time something like that is mentioned in the series.

To buy computer equipment for Ax, of course.  ;)

I think that's what Rachel used hers for later in the series.

I actually just read that bit. lol. She bought Ax an iMac. XD

At that point, it's referred to as her credit card "allowance", which implies to me that it might be one of those pre-paid credit cards. Something her mum (and probably her dad, too, actually) can put her allowance onto so that she can spend it as she'd like, and build up good credit.
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Re: Group Re-Read: #19 The Departure
« Reply #23 on: January 29, 2009, 05:08:09 PM »
Ok, fine. I'm just a country boy that doesn't believe a young teenager has any need for a card or cell phone. I am glad she did a happy ending for this book. What is with the happyendingphobia?


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Offline RYTX

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Re: Group Re-Read: #19 The Departure
« Reply #24 on: January 29, 2009, 06:56:40 PM »
I'm not against happy endings.
I wanted the series too end happy, it took me a long time to accept how it did end.
But this one was just so smaltsie in it, it was too much for me.
The it's not even the line entirely, just the way I see it delivered....books should not have freeze frame endings

idk
it's hard to explain,but yeah, it was just too...end of third HP movie to me (which I also hate, who the hell wants to see the kids face smeared across the screen.)
And yes, I'm well aware this was years before potter.
/rant
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Offline Gafrash

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Re: Group Re-Read: #19 The Departure
« Reply #25 on: February 06, 2009, 03:54:36 AM »
Guys!!! Here's a concept rough I drew dedicated to the opening of this story.


Offline Terenia

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Re: Group Re-Read: #19 The Departure
« Reply #26 on: February 06, 2009, 07:44:01 AM »
 :o :o

::in awe::

Amazing work as always!!!

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Offline morfowt

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Re: Group Re-Read: #19 The Departure
« Reply #27 on: February 06, 2009, 08:08:09 AM »
Personally, I imagined Karen to look a little different from that...