Author Topic: Group Re-read 2.0 #4 The Message  (Read 3243 times)

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Offline RYTX

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Group Re-read 2.0 #4 The Message
« on: November 19, 2011, 03:08:50 PM »
Synopsis
Sometimes you have to change a little more than your mind...
Once you've spent a while combating aliens and turning into animals, you learn to accept some unusual stuff. Still, Cassie doesn't know what to make of her dreams lately. Until she finds out that Tobias is having the same dreams. Dreams of something in need of help. Dreams the Animorphs  have to do something about. Dreams that they're sharing with Visser Three...

Questions

   1. Initial thoughts on Aximili-Esgarrouth-Isthill?

   2. What did you think of Ax calling for help through a "mirrorwave call" a technology we don't see again? What do you think it is? Do you think the book explanation of being tied to morphing is why Cassie and Tobias experience it more than the others?

   3. The Animorphs also end up saving a whale in this book, and Cassie has a very unusual encounter with it. Any thoughts on that? At the end whales end up saving the Animorphs. How was that for story resolution?

   4. Marco being hurt by sharks is probably the most severe injury, and closest an individual has come to dying, so far. What do you think about the extreme dangers the Animorphs face, in this instance and at large, against the natural world in addition to their alien enemies?

   5. We learn in this book that should the Yeerks conquer earth, they'll kill everything that's not needed to maintain the host population-affectively destroying the planet. How much does this add to the need to stop the invasion? Is saving the rest of the world an added bonus to keeping mankind free, or should it be a reason in and of itself to defeat the Yeerks?

   6. What do you think about Cassie's reluctance to be the one to decide what they should do and how to go about things in this book?

   7. Cassie is undoubtedly a girl of many talents, what with her morale insights, morphing prowess and other "gifts" revealed later. What do you think Cassie's most significant contributions to the group are? What is Cassie's role, and how important is it to the Animorphs success? Could any of the others have filled this role?

   8. In this book, the group takes on the dolphin morph, an animal commonly viewed as among the most intelligent beings on earth. What do you think of the portrayal of this animal in this book and throughout the series? Do you think Applegate's descriptions of its abilities and attitudes were accurate or exaggerated? What do you envision the experience of being a dolphin to be like? What do you think of the actions of dolphins being an endless game, when the same actions performed by other animals are seen as being mundane or even ruthless?

   9. On a related note: What is intelligence? What makes an animal intelligent? How and/or why does it differ from human intelligence? What other creatures would you call intelligent? Cassie says in this book that if human have souls, so do whales. Do you agree? What is a soul, what things possess it and why? Is it a concept tied to intelligence? What do you think of the ethics of morphing something with its own mind or soul?

   10. What would you do if you thought you could hear someone calling for help in your dreams? How much, if any, stock do you put into dreams? Obviously the Animorphs experience a number of bizarre things that are true for them, but at what point do you suspend disbelief, and how far are you willing to go with it?

   11. Have you recently read the original, the reprint, or did you do this from memory? If you've read the reprint, how do feel about any changes?

   12. Anything else?


Answer, ignore and submit your own questions and comments as you please; but remember to vote!

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Offline yunyun

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Re: Group Re-read 2.0 #4 The Message
« Reply #1 on: November 19, 2011, 04:57:32 PM »
2. I was really confused. So my idea was that Ax somehow reflected thought-speech...? But that doesn't make much sense. And if he could call the other Animorphs, well, why not use that to rick the Yeerks? The would have helped them. And yeah, I do think it was morphing/andalites. Visser three is andalite/morphing. Cassie is Estreen/morphing and Tobias is nothlit/morphing. The others onlt have the morphing part
3.yeah...I'm not sure if dolphins even communicates with whales so...yeah
5. I think that makes it even more important to save the world (really cliched sentence) considering all the animals. And i think it's a reason, not a bonus
6. It makes sense to me. Cassie isn't a natural decision maker and naturally she'll be more nervous.
7. Cassie is really helpful in #34 (and MM4). Uh...other than that, she doesn't seem too helpful.
8. Communicating with whales? Totally exaggerated. About the fun and stuff? That makes sense.
10. If i keep on having the dream and it feels important, I'll believe in it.
11. I did this from memory. But I have read the reprint. I think the changes makes sense
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Offline Noelle

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Re: Group Re-read 2.0 #4 The Message
« Reply #2 on: November 20, 2011, 06:05:10 PM »
1. I've always liked Ax and found him to be an interesting character.  I think the first time I read it my reaction was mostly *weeee another Andalite!* *giddy*  Then of course intense emo feelings for him being Elfangor's brother.  I actually was kind of surprised that after the initial reveal that Elfangor was dead, he never really seemed to dwell on it after that.  Then again, he just got rescued by a bunch of aliens that he doesn't know, he's supposed to be a brave warrior, and Andalites don't seem to be the type of race to wear their hearts on their sleeves anyway, so it makes sense that he would have repressed his emotions around new people.

2. I think that it was an idea that was made obsolete throughout the novel as the race of Andalites became more developed.  Gafinilan mentions later in the book that he is close enough friends with Mertil that he can speak to him anywhere on the same planet (if memory serves correct.)  It would only make sense that Ax would have that kind of connection with his brother.  I would think that, even if he didn't have that close a connection with other warriors, the emotional distress he would be in could possibly be able to extend his thoughtspeak out to others of his race.  It makes total sense that Tobias would hear it, as he is Elfangor's son and him having a connection with Elfangor is a common theme throughout the book even though he was born human.  As for why Cassie heard it...well...I shall spare my true judgement.  -_-  My only idea is well obviously she is just so super speshul that she hears it duh is that she is exceptionally skilled at morphing.  As a writer, I would think perhaps it was just a) her turn to have a book and b) while it only makes sense in the world of the text that Tobias would hear it, it is hard to make this story around a Nothlit who cannot go down and get Ax, so KA needed another alternative.

3. Well, Cassie is speshul, remember?  I think it just underlies a theme about how animals are also part of the earth, and also in danger.  Its a sort of spiritual type lesson, that animals aren't as stupid as we think they are and they will defend their home just like we will.

4. Well, I think its tragic that kids face this kind of danger, but that's really a whole over-arching theme of this book.

5. I think that it makes it absolutely essential that the Yeerks be stopped  NOW.  If the world is taken over, there is no taking it back.  There is no Andalites saving it later.  It's ruined.

6.  I think she just needs to take a couple lessons from Rachel.  XD

7. Honestly, pure dumb luck.  Honestly, she's a wet blanket throughout the whole stories, puts the kids in bad positions because of her morality more than once.  Her moral squickiness did save them in the Test, and she did save Ax when he became sick.  Honestly though, I think her character is over all so detrimental to the group and holds them back so much, if she didn't have her "deus ex machina save the day" moments, all the readers of the series would find her to be absolutely useless.  Other than her "saves the day" moments, I think the group would have been completely fine without her.  I think they would have fared better overall.  And I think a lot of her "saves the day" moments wouldn't be needed if the other Animorphs had the ability to plan realistically and didn't have to jump through hoops and hand hold her and deal with her hammering the guilt into their brain even further and harder when they are already dealing with guilt and PTSD issues.  Honestly, I kind of wish Ax snapped her head off when he found out she gave the cube away.  I mean, seriously, what a slap in the face!  Did she loose a family member to the war?  No.  All the others did...but she didn't and acted like the Yeerks were all awesome when the others had controllers and freaking family members DIE in the war.

Ooops, I went off on a rant tangent.  Sorry, I digress.  =P

8. Well, in the end fiction is fiction, I never found anything terribly inconsistent with the idea of the dolphin's personality.

9. Honestly, this may sound weird, but I think Animals are more wise while sentient creatures are more intelligent.  Sentient creatures have the abstract ability to perceive a future that is different and the mind to make it so.  Animals have the wisdom to think that life is fine the way it is.  There are differences, but they are equal, in my mind.  Honestly, I do not see a problem morphing anything, including sentient creatures, as long as it is for the greater good.  You are saving a planet, not building a golf course.

10. If it was just one or two, I would dismiss it.  If it was more than that, I would start looking into it, though if another was experiencing it I would immediately look into it.

11. I skimmed the original, most of it from memory.  I have read it a lot though in the past.  I like all the books that have a lot to do with Andalite culture, and I really like the explanations about the dome that Ax gives.

12.  I'm sorry.  I hate Cassie.  A lot.  Even though EVERY SINGLE PERSONALITY test I EVER take on Animorphs, even when I try to purposely bungle the results, gives me her.   Lol.

Offline RYTX

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Re: Group Re-read 2.0 #4 The Message
« Reply #3 on: December 11, 2012, 02:12:27 PM »
         1. I said in book 1 the characters seemed flat. I say the same about Ax here, but much less flat than they did in that book. I also find him a little whiny till he's had a few fights, but that's understandable.

   2. Lame. I guess this was a light foreshadowing of Seerows kindness, but I would have rather it just be really loud, desperate calling. Like Mertil and Gafilin or something. Didn't like it.

   3. Also lame. I know sci-fi often blurs the line with fantasy, this was too much. Cassie has magic talks with whales. It's like this whole new element, that was totally unneeded. Maybe foreshadowing the Ultra special Cassie, but that's something else I dislike in general.

   4. I like that they did this. There's mean ass creatures no matter what form you have, and the Animorphs often have to run with them; I like they don't have these really easy "I'm an animal so at one with nature" adventures. That said, they have the worst jobs ever! Fighting aliens is full of occupational hazards, now you have all these environmental ones? Horrible

   5. I think this limitlessly amplifies the Yeerk threat, and is definitely a reason to stop the Yeerks, even if you can't save mankind. In my view life is (read, should be) equally valued, from plants to people, and while I've cut down trees and squashed bugs, the notion of wiping out the whole of the planet solely because it's not of utility is not acceptable. Just too much.

   6. Highly annoying. Bone up or shut up Cass. She gets better about being the one on the spot as we go on, but I really dislike how she handles it here

   7. I don't know if Cassie has a role. Yet. She's shown her hand at getting into others heads, and providing some valuable knowledge, but I don't know where she's established a niche for herself in terms of meeting consistent expectations for the group.

   8. I hate the dolphin portrayal. It's bubbly and fun to read, but I doubt it's right. I refuse to believe anything is happy all the time. I do like the idea of it's strength in the water: I swam as a kid, but that would be on a whole other level. I don't like saying killings a game for them, and a way of life for everyone else. Interesting for sure, but this makes them seem exclusive, which I don't think they are, which is probably my biggest deal with them.

   9. Wtf was I thinking? I like to think intelligence loosely defined as utilize relevant environmental information. I say with earnest I've known dogs smarter than some people, even if it can't do math. So I'd assign intelligence to any species, but few individuals. I've no clue what a soul is. If it's inherent in humans, it's inherent in life IMO, and maybe even all existence, who knows. As for morphing ethics: it's fine, STFU and morph the dang thing Cassie.

   10. Ignore. Someone sharing the dream would just convince me that somehow a prank was being pulled. I put some stock in dreams, but they never come to anything, so by now I'd be fairly desensitized. I'd suspend at aliens, suspend dragons and magics, probably stop around angels and parallel universes. Once it's starts becoming concert, historical, predictable, I suspect traps
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