Author Topic: Rachel, Cassie and David are all Psychopaths.  (Read 1138 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Dylan

  • Jeremy Jason McCole's #1 Fan
  • Xtreme Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 2769
  • Karma: 60
  • Gender: Male
  • Do you just hate trashcans?
Rachel, Cassie and David are all Psychopaths.
« on: June 13, 2015, 01:10:25 AM »
Note:This gonna be a long post. But read it all, it's interesting.
...
I found this on tv tropes WMG page. I found this pretty interesting.
From TV Tropes:"This'll be a pretty long entry. I'm going to use Dr. Hare's Psychopathic Checklist to prove that both of the above characters are psychopaths. (David in particular - I had to stretch it a bit to make and Cassie Rachel fit.) Here we go:

• Glib and superficial charm: David is pretty nice and friendly when he wants to be, this is what keeps Rachel at all bearable, and Cassie uses it to get people to do what she wants

 • Grandoise self-worth: David's is obvious. Rachel's is more subtle, but when reading The Weakness, it's shown that she thinks she's better than everyone else - until everything crashes down, that is. Cassie always feels that she is the "voice of morality" for the group, and without her they would delve into immoral tactics.

 • Need for stimulation and proneness to boredom: David couldn't sit still in a barn for two minutes without crashing through a hotel window, and Rachel is shown to always be the first to go on any sort of mission, rushing everyone with minimal planning. Cassie doesn't show this as much, but it does show in her constantly working in the barn, to the point where her parents don't find it odd when she's out there late at night.

 • Pathological lying: This one's a lot more justified in the others, at least in Rachel's sense - she has to lie to her parents in order to survive. David, however, lies all the time, and not for much of a reason. Cassie lies when she feel that it is "justified": see her letting Tom take the morphing cube, among other things.

 • Conning and manipulativeness: David's plans often involve manipulating others, such as when he pretended to be Sandler. Rachel doesn't do this nearly as much, but she does sometimes use others, particularly Tobias. Cassie doesn't use it as often, but when she does, it's devastating (remember who came up with the plan to deal with David?).

 • Lack of remorse or guilt: David feels no guilt for anything whatsoever, and Rachel only feels guilty when her actions seriously harm humans - never when the mildly harm them or when the victim isn't a human.

 • Shallow effect: David has this in spades, constantly pretending to feel emotions that he doesn't have. Rachel is also shown to have no middle ground between extremes of feelings - either (very occasionally) feeling strongly about something, or feeling nothing at all. Cassie feels guilt at harming anything; until she convinces herself it's justified and then doesn't get concerned again until the evidence is staring her in the face (see #19, bit of Hork-Bajir in her teeth).

 • Callousness and lack of empathy: David's is quite obvious, and Rachel is shown to frequently kill or hurt others and only occasionally feel guilt. For Cassie, see above.

 • Parasitic lifestyle: David would be hopeless if he couldn't force others to notice him. He constantly needs things from others - the morphing cube, a place to stay, Saddler's body... all without contributing anything to the people he steals from. Even his ultimate plan involves this - he wanted to give the morphing power to other humans who would support him and help him do crime. Rachel also needs things from others, if only someone to kill, someone to kill for, and someone to love. Cassie needs others acting in morally ambiguous ways, and needs to be morally superior to anyone else, up to being willing to be a caterpillar forever rather than let Aftran have the moral high ground.

 • Poor behavioral controls: Oh, lord. Rachel has no behavior control at all - she is frequently shown to be completely out of control of her violent emotions, threatening (inside her head) to kill people and seriously hurt them constantly (particularly in The Return). David is a bit better, but he still couldn't help do things that were stupid (such as break into that hotel room) for no reason at all. While this isn't as violence-centered for Cassie, she does generally act on emotional impulse, even more so than Rachel, from temporarily quitting the team in #19, to endangering herself for the Buffa-human in #39, and generally putting herself in danger for no good reason.

 • Promiscuous sexual behavior: Irrelevant - this being a kids series, there were no opportunities for sex.

 • Early behavioral problems: Also irrelevant - we have little information on either of their early childhoods. On the flip side, there is no basis of comparison from teenagers onward.

 • Lack of realistic, long-term goals: David's long-term goals make no sense - who does he think will get on board with him to do pointless and destructive crime, even if he does give them morphing power? Not to mention that this would attract massive attention from the yeerks and would probably end with everybody dying. Rachel's and Cassie's is completely justified in that none of the Animorphs have long term goals, other than to stay alive. However, Cassie does have long-term ideals, just no clear plan of how to achieve them.

 • Impulsivity: We saw when Rachel took over in The Weakness that Rachel has no natural ability to plan anything - she's just more likely to charge into battle and kill anything that moves. David's a bit better, but he was still destructive with no real purpose or long term goal behind it - it was more like, "Ooh! Animorphs! I hate those guys! Let's kill!" Cassie, on the other hand, will say "Let's follow directions from this whale," or "Sure, I'll be possessed by the spirit of a long-dead guerrilla fighter,".

 • Irresponsibility: Rachel is shown in the later books to almost never be able to do what the Animorphs ask of her unless it involves killing - same goes for David. Cassie also does not take responsibility for her own actions, often saying that she acts on feelings, or whims, or hopes, but with little forethought and serious retrospective rationalization.

 • Failure to accept responsibility for own actions: Rachel only very occasionally accepts responsibility for anything, and it generally only happens when it would be absolutely necessary for her to be at all human. David is even worse, never wanting to solve any of the problems he causes for the Animorphs. Cassie give up the morphing cube and refuses to take the blame for the problems caused by morph-capable Controllers.

 • Many short-term marital relationships: Another irrelevant factor - both are too young to marry.

 • Juvenile delinquency: It can be argued that the Animorphs are forced to break laws, but both Rachel and David do it more consistently and more pointlessly than anyone else.

 • Revocation of conditional release: David is told off for his counterproductive actions in the first two books of the David trilogy, but that doesn't stop him from continuing to do these things. This brings about his ultimate fate. Rachel is never punished for anything that she does, but even on the rare occasion that she feels guilt over killing someone, she still remains to be enormously violent and dangerous.

 • Criminal versatility: Both Rachel and David take part in breaking tons and tons of different laws - they can basically do anything they want."
 ....
So, yeah. Rachel and David are indisputably psychopaths. David was probably written this way, but with Rachel, it may be debatable, and Cassie is definitely a case of YMMV. Either way, it makes for a more interesting - and more horrifying - read.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2015, 11:05:00 AM by Dpsb5 »
Quote
Waffles. Nuf' Said.
2015: Best Newcomer to RAF
2015: Most Insane Member


Offline Chad32

  • God
  • ********
  • Posts: 11951
  • Karma: 195
  • Gender: Male
Re: Rachel, Cassie and David are all Psychopaths.
« Reply #1 on: June 13, 2015, 09:46:15 AM »
I don't think the starfish episode can really be used against her, because in that book she was effectively mentally disabled. I also wouldn't blame David for wanting to sleep in a hotel, rather than a loud smelly barn.

I'd really rather not psychoanalyse Rachel too much. Many of us have these flaws, though perhaps not all at once. The end result is the question of whether or not she could cope after the war. Personally I see her as having a stronger spirit than most Anis. In a series where no named, sympathetic character dies and stays dead until the last book, I wouldn't have expected a bunch of sympathetic people to be callously killed off for shock value. We'll never know what would have happened to rachel after the war, but we do know the authors aren't above twisting the narrative of the books to fit what they want to happen.


Ani-Master 2014!

Offline Dylan

  • Jeremy Jason McCole's #1 Fan
  • Xtreme Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 2769
  • Karma: 60
  • Gender: Male
  • Do you just hate trashcans?
Re: Rachel, Cassie and David are all Psychopaths.
« Reply #2 on: June 13, 2015, 11:23:09 AM »
I'd really rather not psychoanalyse Rachel too much. Many of us have these flaws, though perhaps not all at once. The end result is the question of whether or not she could cope after the war. Personally I see her as having a stronger spirit than most Anis. In a series where no named, sympathetic character dies and stays dead until the last book, I wouldn't have expected a bunch of sympathetic people to be callously killed off for shock value. We'll never know what would have happened to Rachel after the war, but we do know the authors aren't above twisting the narrative of the books to fit what they want to happen.
I don't think Rachel would have been able handle postwar life. She was basically a hot mess by the end of the series.
 
I don't think the starfish episode can really be used against her, because in that book she was effectively mentally disabled.
The Separation can be used against her. That book was suppose to a character analysis of Rachel. So if a raging psycho and a dimwitted bimbo make Rachel, it counts as evidence.
Quote
Waffles. Nuf' Said.
2015: Best Newcomer to RAF
2015: Most Insane Member


Offline Chad32

  • God
  • ********
  • Posts: 11951
  • Karma: 195
  • Gender: Male
Re: Rachel, Cassie and David are all Psychopaths.
« Reply #3 on: June 13, 2015, 11:49:21 AM »
We could probably call Marco a psychopath too, because he's capable of being as ruthless as he needs to be. Except that alone doesn't define his character. Neither shoudl rachel's flaws alone define her. Not that it matters. The authors will do what they want with their characters, and as a fan who spent money on the series I have some right to speak my mind on it.


Ani-Master 2014!

Offline Dylan

  • Jeremy Jason McCole's #1 Fan
  • Xtreme Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 2769
  • Karma: 60
  • Gender: Male
  • Do you just hate trashcans?
Re: Rachel, Cassie and David are all Psychopaths.
« Reply #4 on: June 13, 2015, 12:02:13 PM »
We could probably call Marco a psychopath too, because he's capable of being as ruthless as he needs to be. Except that alone doesn't define his character. Neither shoudl rachel's flaws alone define her. Not that it matters. The authors will do what they want with their characters, and as a fan who spent money on the series I have some right to speak my mind on it.
Eh, this was meant to be some food for thought. If you don't consider Rachel is at least debatable, I'm not gonna change your mind.
Quote
Waffles. Nuf' Said.
2015: Best Newcomer to RAF
2015: Most Insane Member


Offline Chad32

  • God
  • ********
  • Posts: 11951
  • Karma: 195
  • Gender: Male
Re: Rachel, Cassie and David are all Psychopaths.
« Reply #5 on: June 13, 2015, 12:11:24 PM »
It's a touchy subjetc for me. I'm sorry if I come off as rude.


Ani-Master 2014!

Offline Dylan

  • Jeremy Jason McCole's #1 Fan
  • Xtreme Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 2769
  • Karma: 60
  • Gender: Male
  • Do you just hate trashcans?
Re: Rachel, Cassie and David are all Psychopaths.
« Reply #6 on: June 13, 2015, 01:23:26 PM »
It's a touchy subjetc for me. I'm sorry if I come off as rude.
Me too, sorry if I came off a little b%tchy to your responces.
Quote
Waffles. Nuf' Said.
2015: Best Newcomer to RAF
2015: Most Insane Member


Offline Chad32

  • God
  • ********
  • Posts: 11951
  • Karma: 195
  • Gender: Male
Re: Rachel, Cassie and David are all Psychopaths.
« Reply #7 on: June 13, 2015, 01:33:40 PM »
It's probably good to discuss things like this. I just don't like what they did to her character. Especially when in the end of 48 and right before she died, she showed a Human side to her. She didn't need help figuring out that Crayak's ploy would end badly in the long run. she didn't bemoan the fact that she was unable to kill everyone in the blade ship before she died. Yes she was the most hardcore member of the team, but she wasn't this loose cannon that needed to be put down before she went on a killing spree through the street without any enemies to fight. She never betrayed the team, not for lack of anyone trying to get her to. She was never completely ruthless like Marco. She never went behind the team's back like Ax. She didn't kill a bunch of defenseless people just because she was ticked off like Jake. Yet she was the one they decided needed to die before the war ended.


Ani-Master 2014!

Offline Dylan

  • Jeremy Jason McCole's #1 Fan
  • Xtreme Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 2769
  • Karma: 60
  • Gender: Male
  • Do you just hate trashcans?
Re: Rachel, Cassie and David are all Psychopaths.
« Reply #8 on: June 13, 2015, 01:52:26 PM »
It's probably good to discuss things like this. I just don't like what they did to her character. Especially when in the end of 48 and right before she died, she showed a Human side to her. She didn't need help figuring out that Crayak's ploy would end badly in the long run. she didn't bemoan the fact that she was unable to kill everyone in the blade ship before she died. Yes she was the most hardcore member of the team, but she wasn't this loose cannon that needed to be put down before she went on a killing spree through the street without any enemies to fight. She never betrayed the team, not for lack of anyone trying to get her to. She was never completely ruthless like Marco. She never went behind the team's back like Ax. She didn't kill a bunch of defenseless people just because she was ticked off like Jake. Yet she was the one they decided needed to die before the war ended.
She got really fanderized by the end of the series. I wonder if that over flanderization was intentional...
...Anyway...
What do you think of thoughts on David and Cassie? I'm pretty sure David was intended to written this way. My thoughts on Cassie are more of a of YMMV/alternate character interpretation.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2015, 02:49:16 PM by Dpsb5 »
Quote
Waffles. Nuf' Said.
2015: Best Newcomer to RAF
2015: Most Insane Member


Offline Chad32

  • God
  • ********
  • Posts: 11951
  • Karma: 195
  • Gender: Male
Re: Rachel, Cassie and David are all Psychopaths.
« Reply #9 on: June 13, 2015, 03:12:20 PM »
I'm quite sure david was intended this way. Then they just gave up trying to recruit until 50, despite the fact that subsequent recruitments could be more controlled than what happened with David. You kind of know that something is wrong when someone names their pets Spawn and Megadeath. Unless they're a little kid and just being goofy. I don't blame him for some things, but trying to pose as Sandler is quite extreme.

YMMV on Cassie. Obviously the narrative is on her side. Among other things, Tobias claims it was beyond wrong for Jake to exclude her from a meeting after book 50, despite the fact that I'd be holding a meeting specifically to talk about whether or not we should kick her off the team.


Ani-Master 2014!

Offline Dylan

  • Jeremy Jason McCole's #1 Fan
  • Xtreme Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 2769
  • Karma: 60
  • Gender: Male
  • Do you just hate trashcans?
Re: Rachel, Cassie and David are all Psychopaths.
« Reply #10 on: June 13, 2015, 03:53:23 PM »
I'm quite sure david was intended this way. Then they just gave up trying to recruit until 50, despite the fact that subsequent recruitments could be more controlled than what happened with David. You kind of know that something is wrong when someone names their pets Spawn and Megadeath. Unless they're a little kid and just being goofy. I don't blame him for some things, but trying to pose as Sandler is quite extreme.
I agree with that. I found the David/Sadler thing kind of creepy. I remember thinking his choice in naming pets Spawn and Megadeath were because he was into hard rock. That would invoke the Rock'n Roll is the root evil trope.

YMMV on Cassie. Obviously the narrative is on her side. Among other things, Tobias claims it was beyond wrong for Jake to exclude her from a meeting after book 50, despite the fact that I'd be holding a meeting specifically to talk about whether or not we should kick her off the team.
What she did at the end of 50 and how she fallows up on what she did would fits her into the Impulsivity check mark and the Failure to accept responsibility for own actions check mark.
...
I have a small theory that it was the ellimist that told her to give the morphing cube to tom. Mainly because her final lines in The Ultimate was "I couldn't explain. Because I didn't understand it myself. All I knew was that letting Tom take the morphing cube had seemed absolutely the right thing to do. And something still told me I was right" Then again this could be Pathological lying.
Quote
Waffles. Nuf' Said.
2015: Best Newcomer to RAF
2015: Most Insane Member


Offline Chad32

  • God
  • ********
  • Posts: 11951
  • Karma: 195
  • Gender: Male
Re: Rachel, Cassie and David are all Psychopaths.
« Reply #11 on: June 13, 2015, 04:06:45 PM »
Could have been the Ellemist kind of making her do it, but that would have been a nice thing to confirm. The most we get is a deleted line where she says "What have I done?". I know it falls into the line of bringing the villains as close to victory as possible, without actually letting them win, but it's better to do it in a way that in universe doesn't make the character come off badly. That old nightmare in book 6 is poor foreshadowing, especially since in the nightmare itsself the tables turn to put Tom in a place of power. That doesn't happen in the fight. A dracon does not give him a significant upperhand in that situation.


Ani-Master 2014!

Offline Dylan

  • Jeremy Jason McCole's #1 Fan
  • Xtreme Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 2769
  • Karma: 60
  • Gender: Male
  • Do you just hate trashcans?
Re: Rachel, Cassie and David are all Psychopaths.
« Reply #12 on: June 13, 2015, 09:16:36 PM »
Could have been the Ellemist kind of making her do it, but that would have been a nice thing to confirm. The most we get is a deleted line where she says "What have I done?". I know it falls into the line of bringing the villains as close to victory as possible, without actually letting them win, but it's better to do it in a way that in universe doesn't make the character come off badly.
Agreed. Whether or not Cassie was Ellimist influenced, it still comes off as dipsh%t move on Cassie's part.

That old nightmare in book 6 is poor foreshadowing, especially since in the nightmare itsself the tables turn to put Tom in a place of power. That doesn't happen in the fight.
I aways found the fact that Rachel was the one who killed Tom, a little odd. There was some forshadowing (most notably in 6) that Jake was the one bring down Tom. The fact it Rachel who ended Tom is a forshadowing fail. Build up with little pay off.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2015, 09:18:31 PM by Dpsb5 »
Quote
Waffles. Nuf' Said.
2015: Best Newcomer to RAF
2015: Most Insane Member