I'm confused by something in TAC

[wolfev]

At the end the Ellimist tells Elfangor that he messed up the time line by coming to earth, marrying Loren, and having Tobias. However, the Ellimist implies that the time line that is correct would have the animorphs in it as they are now. That is to say Tobias would be with them. However, if Elfangor hadn't messed with the time line and everything was correct according to the Ellimist, then Tobias would not exist, at least in the form he is in now. That means the animorphs would not be the same way they are now and in direct contradiction with the Ellimist. You could argue that Tobias would still be with the animorphs if he came into existence, but then Tobias would have no reason to be with them since he would not be Elfangor's son.
Furthermore, does the Ellimist have other people on his side like the animorphs on other planets or is it just them. Like Crayak has a whole lot of howlers.

[morfowt]

the first question...I'm still thinking about.

the second question, i don't think so. Ellimist always plays the team that looks like they'll almost certainly lose. sometimes it's by playing a weaker team. sometimes it's by playing the outnumbered team. I doubt the ellimist has many more troops. maybe about a dozen more because obviously he can't call the animorphs every single time, he needs something done (that last part didn't sound right for some reason).

[RYTX]

For the thing with Tobias, that's what makes him so interesting; he's Elfangor's "time-shifted son." Tobias can only exist as the time shifted son, change one parent and he's not really Tobias.
Now it's a matter of the Ellimist's involvement. He's not allowed to interfere with the lives of other species (yeah right) , which means he can't directly anyway, wipe Tobias out of existence. At the same time he can't REALLY undo everything the happened with the time matrix. It still happened, it still had it's affects and he can't just completely negate those events, just like MM3, altering to remove John whatever was permissible, just not by him.
He put things back as they "should" be; Elfangor ran around time and space, did his thing and then when back to the fight, not Elfangor ran around time and space, did his thing, and then went on to do business with Bill Gates

And the Ellimist did have people on his side; the Pemalites where his remember, but since their eradication, no, I doubt he had active units working directly under him. At most it would be only small groups like the Animorphs who he would influence/make himself known to

My god my response are long aren't they?

[sundi]

So how did Elfangor get a reputation for being a great fighter, he fought with his first ship, than on the taxxon planet and than in the void created by the time matrix with Loren against visser 3. Of these three,the fight with his first ship would have been the only one to make it back to the andalite planet. Than the ellimist changed time so that elfangor rejoined the fleet (where he did shoot down a few ships if I recall correctly) and than he crashed down to earth. So how did he get a reputation for being such a great fighter when he fought in so few battles?

[Duff]

no he didnt crash in the first battle since his return, he saved the day in that battle and then he fought alot more battles and became a famous prince and then went back to earth

[filmstu2005]

^^^^^What he said

[Duff]

robs reason makes sense, the whole him being destined to create tobias and then leave, not stick around

i cant really see the ellimist having troops, he's got the pemalites to counter the howlers, but hes not really the kinda guy to create a species to do battle
it seems like he just takes an interest in certain groups, especially when theres a game to be played, and nudges them along at times

[Early]

I think the Ellimist was lying.  As Toolin, he was the game-player, the great manipulator.  While captured by the world-encompassing creature, he tried to lie, so he's not too holy for it.

My thought stream is that the Ellimist needed Elfangor to go and knew that Elfangor would do what ever Elfangor believed was the right thing.  Obviously abandoning your wife is a no-no, so why wouldn't the Ellimist just harshly say whatever needed to be said to get this pawn back to the fleet?

Elfangor needed to be back with the fleet so he would have the prestige and power to gain an Escafil device so when the yeerks were ready to take earth there would be an unexpected powerful force in the way.  The device would also need to be on Earth so that Cassie could give the morphing technology to a Yeerk and open their minds to the idea of morphing over infestation. 

IMHO, if Elfangor refused to go back, the Ellimist couldn't just grab him and force him to go (rules) so the only option left was to lie knowing that Elfangor wouldn't know the truth until he landed in the construction site.


EDIT: Oh I forgot to mention-- "Cool topic, btw, wolfev"

[JFalcon]

I believe the Ellimist has troops besides the Animoprhs.
I think he focuses on the Animorphs because earth was a big part of his game, but it can't be the only part, otherwise why send them to help the Iskoort?
Besides which he'd be pretty screwed after 54 if the Animorphs were all he had. With a universe as big as this being the stakes of his game it'd be downright wrong to put all your eggs in one basket. I think the reason we never see anything other than the animorphs is because apart from the ellimist chronicles we never realy see anything not directly related to the animorphs, and even then it still tied in, we never see for example the war for the Anati(sp?) world, nor would we unless it was relevant to earth.

[musicman88]

I think the Ellimist was lying.  As Toolin, he was the game-player, the great manipulator.  While captured by the world-encompassing creature, he tried to lie, so he's not too holy for it.

This.  I think the Elimist tells people exactly what they have to hear.

[Aleron]

What Ellimist said to Elfangor is because of his non-interference policy (HA).  The only way he can "directly" help his own cause is by making it seem like he's doing it for other reasons.

[esplin]

At the end the Ellimist tells Elfangor that he messed up the time line by coming to earth, marrying Loren, and having Tobias. However, the Ellimist implies that the time line that is correct would have the animorphs in it as they are now. That is to say Tobias would be with them. However, if Elfangor hadn't messed with the time line and everything was correct according to the Ellimist, then Tobias would not exist, at least in the form he is in now. That means the animorphs would not be the same way they are now and in direct contradiction with the Ellimist. You could argue that Tobias would still be with the animorphs if he came into existence, but then Tobias would have no reason to be with them since he would not be Elfangor's son.
Furthermore, does the Ellimist have other people on his side like the animorphs on other planets or is it just them. Like Crayak has a whole lot of howlers.

Well I would say that what Elfangor did, Was basically exactly what should have happened.  He erm, 'made' Tobias and he gave the animorphs the power to morph.  Seems like a success to me.