Richard's Animorphs Forum
Animorphs Section => Animorphs Forum Classic => Topic started by: KitsuneMarie on December 16, 2009, 12:22:16 AM
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Let's face it: Animorphs is unforgettable. It has permanently imprinted certain scenes, images, and actions on our memories.
But are there specific sentences that, from the moment you first read them, you knew would stick with you forever? Maybe they were profound or important or beautiful. Maybe they made you laugh or get upset. Which, if any, do you think back to even now?
One of the sentences I personally will never forget is "My name is Jake Berenson." I doubt ever I read the opening paragraphs of 75% of the books, but when I saw that line in #53, I remember actually having to close the book to regroup before proceeding. I know, I know, I'm a ninny. :P But that sentence was the moment when I realized that everything had changed, that the series was a hairsbreadth from being over, that something important--both for the Animorphs and for me--was coming to a close.
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The Berenson bit always got me, too. It made me think of Tolkien, because of Beren and Luthien...x3 God, I'm a nerdball!
I always liked Tom's Yeerk's line near the end, in the rebel Taxxon cave.
"Little brother, you've got to know by now: Wars aren't won with clean hands."
Very deep stuff, and a very emotionally charged scene.
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"Because without life there is no despair, but without life there can also never be hope."
-Andalite Chronicles, pp. 218-219
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Oh, man, where do I even start?
Pretty much everything that came out of Dak's mouth in HBC. I can almost recite a few of his 'speeches.' The way he talked about his people was so heartfelt and moving, and even though you already know what happens to the Hork-Bajir, you just can't help but to desperately root for them anyway.
The line "Be happy for me, and all who fly free" from #3. That one always sends chills down my spine, because I think it's probably the one time that Tobias actually admits to being happy.
Elfangor's line "Out of a respect for life, you have to endure" from book #33.
And, obviously, what other people have said. The end of the books, when everything was going to hell in a handbasket, was a very emotional time for all of us readers.
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"Go with your friends, Tobias. They are your family now."
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Free or dead.
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"Ram the Blade Ship"
sorry couldn't help it.
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"This is Jake. Jake Berenson. President of Earth." <= lol
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"Do you hate trash cans? Is that your problem? Do you just HATE TRASH CANS?!!"
and
"It's OAT-freaking-MEAL!"
as well as
"Um . . . Jake? It's a tiger."
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"Do you hate trash cans? Is that your problem? Do you just HATE TRASH CANS?!!"
lol yeah, I love that one too ^^
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wow, i need to reread the series. i don't remember the deeper stuff.
after finals are over. lame. -_-;;
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"Do you hate trash cans? Is that your problem? Do you just HATE TRASH CANS?!!"
indeed.
"see? still think my Idea is nuts? wait a minute, it is nuts. what's the matter with me? am i insane?" - marco
"water? afraid? me?" - tobias
"see our might and tremble!" - helmacrons
"i see your might. where's your tremble?"
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"Being brave isn't about not feeling fear. It's about being scared to death, and still not giving in." - Rachel
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Dapsen. It's a Yeerkish word that means...well. Nevermind what it means. It isn't polite. -Ax
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<Hope...>
- Elfangor
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One most memorable to me, though I admit I had to look it for the exact wording:
In all the universe, no greater beauty.
In a thousand, thousand worlds, no greater art than this
-The Ellimist book 7
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i'm only gonna say this once. Are you insane ?!! Jake dude, think about it ... oh i dont a few dozen horkbajir and a small army of taxxons? - MARCO Hey Marco who's the guy in the comics who says its buttkicking time! -RACHEL it's the thing and he says its clobbering time!
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[spoiler](http://fc01.deviantart.net/fs11/i/2006/250/d/0/Reach_out_by_YEmperor.jpg)[/spoiler]
definitely won't be forgetting that.
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"Just an average, ordinary day, until someone said, 'yanked'."
"If you've already got a Hewlett Aldershot, and a Hewlett Aldershot Jr., what kind of parent is going to inflict that name on a third kid?"
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This is one of the most powerful pieces ever written in an Animorph book, still chilling to this day. Hork-Bajir Chronicles.
Dak Hamee to Aldrea:
"You almighty Andalites. There is no limit to your arrogance, is there? Well, let me tell you something: We may be simple people. But we don't use biology to invent monsters. And we don't enslave other species. And we don't unleash a plague of parasites on the galaxy, endangering every other free species, and then go swaggering around like the lords of the universe. No, we're too simple for all that. We're too stupid to lie and manipulate. We're too stupid to be ruthless. We're too stupid to know how to build powerful weapons designed to annihilate our enemies. And until you came, Andalite, we were too stupid to know how to kill."
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Elfangor's line "Out of a respect for life, you have to endure" from book #33.
Still sticks with me to this day, and i actually use it when advising people. Imagine that!"Do you hate trash cans? Is that your problem? Do you just HATE TRASH CANS?!!"
and
"It's OAT-freaking-MEAL!"
as well as
"Um . . . Jake? It's a tiger."
Nostalgic is what this is. Funniest quotes ever!"Do you hate trash cans? Is that your problem? Do you just HATE TRASH CANS?!!"
indeed.
"see? still think my Idea is nuts? wait a minute, it is nuts. what's the matter with me? am i insane?" - marco
"water? afraid? me?" - tobias
"see our might and tremble!" - helmacrons
"i see your might. where's your tremble?"
I literally LOL right now. Stuff that I will NEVER forget.
There was another one, I think book #13?
Marco (singing): Off we go, into the blue yonder. Flying high above into the sun!
Rachel: Marco? Why are you still singing when I clearly want you to shut up?
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Where sky meets sea, Andalite, human, and Leeran are joined as allies. Each with our weaknesses. Each with our strengths.
For me, that line was just chilling. I'm not even sure if that was the right word.
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This must be what it's like to go insane.
Cassie after fishing out a piece of Hork-Bajir flesh from her teeth and then brushing her teeth like crazy in #19 o__O
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You're not even in high school yet and you're the most wanted person in the Yeerk Empire. Visser Three would trade his blade ship for your head on a stick.
Rachel to Jake in book 22.
Really forces you to have some respect for Jake. Plus the idea of V3 admiring his brand new Jake's-head-on-a-stick comes to me every time
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<l used to be,> [Tobias] said. <l, um, well . . . well, I'm not exactly the
same as I used to be. I've changed.>
"Jara Hamee change, too. Not free. Now free."
Tobias... Trapped as a hawk or freed as a hawk?
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From #28
As you know, energy expenditure
for a force field increases exponentially. To put it in simple terms, if
a field containing ten thousand of your cubic feet uses energy denoted
as x, a field containing twenty thousand of your cubic feet will not use
2x, but rather x cubed.>
"Hey!" Cassie said in alarm. "I actually understood that. I never
understand his technical explanations. What's happening to me?"
I remember this because I still couldn't figure out what Ax was talking about.
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Visser 2 to Ax in #46.
"Would you have done it Andalite? Would you really have done it?"
#22:
Jake: I worry about you, Rachel. More than any of the others except Tobias.
Rachel: Worry about me? Like when all this is over you'll go back to being a mediocre basketball player and a decent student?
Marco in #30:
"Cold, man. The Marco dude? He was just cold."
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This is one of the most powerful pieces ever written in an Animorph book, still chilling to this day. Hork-Bajir Chronicles.
Dak Hamee to Aldrea:
"You almighty Andalites. There is no limit to your arrogance, is there? Well, let me tell you something: We may be simple people. But we don't use biology to invent monsters. And we don't enslave other species. And we don't unleash a plague of parasites on the galaxy, endangering every other free species, and then go swaggering around like the lords of the universe. No, we're too simple for all that. We're too stupid to lie and manipulate. We're too stupid to be ruthless. We're too stupid to know how to build powerful weapons designed to annihilate our enemies. And until you came, Andalite, we were too stupid to know how to kill."
yeah definitely one of the best, though i was always more partial to "you andalites have more respect for the bloodthirsty yeerks or the cowardly arn than the hork bajir who fight and die by your side. inteligence is all that matters to you people isnt it?" etc.
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Tobias: They'll come. The Andalites will come. And until then...
Jake: (nods and wipes tears) Yeah. Until then, we fight.
[Book 1]
Tobias: But how does the butterfly know when to beat its wings?
Rachel: It doesn't. I guess it beats its wings the best it can, and hopes it will all work it. It's a butterfly. If just does what butterflies do.
Marco: And what do we do, Xena, Warrior Princess?
Rachel: (grinning) We kick Yeerk butt.
[Book 7]
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Humans seemed to exist across too broad a spectrum to even be considered a single species.
-Ax in Megamorphs 3
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"And oh, god, how could so much regret and so much sweetness and so muh sadness all be present in that single moment. I was already dead and missing my unlived life."
Seriously the saddest two sentences in the entire series. I teared up just typing them.
On a less serious note, I also will never forget (from 25):
< Say, Rachel, I've got a joke for you. >
< No you don't, > she said.
I ignored the warning. < Two blonds are standing across the river frm one another... >
< Hey, > Tobias interrupted. < Remember, I'm a blond, too. It may be dirty-blond, but it's blond. >
< Yeah, for a couple of hours a week, > I said. < Anyway, the one blond calls out to the other blonde "How do I get to the other side?" >
< That is very funny, Marco, > Ax said brightly.
< I haven't told the punchline yet, Ax, > I replied. < And the blond across the river calls back to her, "You ARE on the other side!" >
< That does it, > Rachel said. < Time for Plan B. >
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/loves this thread
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Nothing can beat Ax.
"Zestfully clean! Zestfully clean! You are not clean unless you are zestfully clean!"
"I merely wish to enjoy the brown globules!"
"The men who are young and restless do not wear shirts. I am young. and I am occasionally restless."
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KA Applegates's Authors Note at the end of #54:
You may now demorph.
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The scene in 30 where Marco berates the imaginary kid criticizing him for killing his mother. The whole scene sticks in my head:
Someday, if we won, if humanity survived, we'd be in the history books. Me and Jake and Rachel and Cassie and Tobias and Ax. They'd be household names, like generals from World War II or the Civil War. Patton and Eisenhower, Ulysses Grant and Robert E. Lee.
Kids would study us in school. Bored, probably.
Some kid would laugh. Some kid would say, "Cold, man. That was really cold."
I had to do it, kid. It was a war. It's the whole point, you stupid, smug, smirking little jerk! Don't you get it? It was the whole point. We hurt the innocent in order to stop the evil.
Innocent Hork-Bajir. Innocent Taxxons. Innocent human-Controllers.
How else to stop the Yeerks? How else to win?
No choice, you punk. We did what we had to do.
"Cold, man. The Marco dude? He was just cold."
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"I am from Canada. I am Canadaese."
Probably tons more, but those pop into my head...especially the first one. The words "You May Now Demorph" made me feel that my childhood was over. It still makes me tear up, like I was morphing and traveling with the Anis for years on this great journey and now, it's over. Now, I can demorph. asfjkasfjlsfjlksf
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"I did not want my obituary to say "Died from wounds substained while battling a fat house cat. That would be embarrasing."
Marco-The Discovery
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Can't be bothered looking up the exact quote - but it's the part in the Andalite Chronicles when Elfangor and Arbron meet up again after being seperated. Elfangor tells Arbron to demorph from Taxxon, and Arbron says, 'I really wish I could, I really wish I could...' or something like that.
Arbron was always one of my favourite peripheral characters. I loved his development into the Taxxon leader later in the series.
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AIA (Ax Is Awesome)
"Do not worry, we are irresponsible teenage hoodlums, possibly
gang members, but you are not in any danger."
"You do not know me, but I
am a juvenile delinquent. I do not trust authority
figures, I probably will not graduate from high
school, and statistics say my present rowdiness
and vandalism will likely lead to more serious
crimes. I am a dangerous fellow, and I am causing
mayhem in this store."
He reached behind her and pulled three jars
of baby food from the top shelf. Shoved them behind
a box of macaroni. Shuffled the Cheez Whiz
in front of the Marshmallow Fluff. Tossed a bag
of lady's shavers onto a bag of hamburger buns.
"There. I have now shamelessly destroyed the
symmetry of this shelf, undoing hours of labor by
underpaid store employees. If you could see me,
you would be frightened."
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SPOILER ALERT
Book 19 is full of these. There's three parts that really stick with me.
"Andalites, humans, there's no difference: You're both smug,
moralizing, superior races. You both live in beautiful worlds. You have
hands and eyes and the freedom to move about wherever you like. And you
hate us for wanting all those same things." -Aftran
"Hi, Cassie," she said.
"How are you?"
She looked at me with those familiar green eyes and said, "I'm free,
Cassie. She kept her promise. I'm free."
I couldn't say anything. Words wouldn't come out. I just knelt down and gave the little girl a hug.
One small victory. One girl free. One connection made with one of our
enemies. A very small peace.
I thought of Aftran, the enemy. I thought of her swimming blind in the Yeerk pool, with only her memories of a brighter world. She'd told me that humans live in paradise. She'd turned her back on paradise to
make a small peace. "Both, Rachel. And I like the blue. And the yellow. And that gross color
there. And the stripes. We live in paradise, Rachel, and we don't even know it. And we don't know when it might end. We'd have to be fools not to enjoy it while we can. So, whip out your credit card, girl, we're
adding some color!"
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From HBC, an Esplin 9466 chapter:
I searched the data banks hungrily. And one day I realized I'd found my true calling.
I came across an old Andalite saying in the computer files. <Know your friends well. Know your enemies better.>
The Andalites were our enemies now.
Yes. Know your enemy.
That was my calling. That was the way to gaining my own host. I would learn all the computer held about the magnificent, powerful creatures called Andalites.
Someday we would face the Andalites in battle. Then I would be needed.
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Paraphrasing...
Marco: "It doesn't matter if they're space ants or plain old earth ants. Ants are just not nice people."
Rachel: "Ants are not nice people? There's a brilliant comment."
MM #2
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Book thrity two with the two Rachels in the room Erek walks in:
"We're filming a doublemint commerical later"- Marco
"To the Yeerk Pool! Let's get some flamethrowers!- Mean Rachel
Book 8
"Greese. Salt and Greese-uh"- Ax
"I am Prince Jake's cousin Phillip."
"<well that's the kiss of death.>"
"it is?"
"<just an expresion Ax-man>"
Book 15 the Animorphs parrot sketch
"BAAWWWKKK. Try our spagetti with hair"
"BAAWWWKKK. Is that your nose or are you eatting a bannana?"
"BAAWWWKKK. We should all be flying free in our native habitat"
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I'm normally all about the more sentimental moments, but the image of this scene had me cracking up. Narrated by Marco, in book 20.
"You and me, Xena," I said.
Rachel arched one eyebrow at me. "You know, if I'm Xena, what's that make you?"
"Hercules, obviously."
"I was thinking more Joxer. Isn't that the annoying weenie who hangs around Xena?"
"Okay, that does it." I stuck my elbow up on the table, arm upright in the arm-wrestling position. "Let's go. Come on, let's settle this once and for all."
Jake yawned. "Shouldn't we have a pair of live scorpions to make it interesting?"
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Oh, man, I have so many but when I actually started to think about it, I couldn't remember specifics. Let me dig through books for a second... I read through the twenties a lot, so that is the stuff that sticks with me most.
19
Marco: "What's the deal with you, Cassie? Half the time you're giving us crap over being too ruthless or whatever. It's always, 'Oh, is this right?' and 'Oh, should we do this?' I mean, you're Miss Morality, and then when you have a bad night you just bail on us?'
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"Fine. You have your morals and your fine feelings and all that. We'll go off and risk our lives to save the world. You just sit here and feel righteous."
22 I don't why I read the Solution over and over again, but the fury, the helplessness, the exhaustion really... not attracted me, but it clicked.
[When Rachel goes after David after David morphs Marco in the cafeteria. She confronts him and after some threats, they fight and she sticks a fork in his ear.] I fought a nauseating urge to twist the fork, to make him scream in pain.
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I was still waiting for him to say something. Like maybe "It's okay, Rachel, no big deal." But nothing. Nothing! I wanted to scream at him: "Why did you let me go after David if you didn't think I was going to threaten him? You hypocrite!" But there wasn't time for that.
...
<Okay, okay,> David said with a laugh. <Okay, so you guys won. That's cool. I can accept that. Fine, I'll go my own way now.>
No one said anything.
27
"Someone tell the Chee and tell them they're doomed," I said. "Their only hope is a collection of idiot kids, standing around in the woods debating cable channels."
...
A cheerful thought-speak voice sang out in our heads. <Greetings, friends. We are happy to have you aboard. However, we would not want you to access this panel. It is possible that you might accidentally do yourself harm. And that would be so sad.>
Ax punched in the number six.
<That is the correct code! Our concerns were misplaced.>
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"Oh, Marco the funny one! How's Mommy, Marco? Is she alive or is she dead? Does she scream with the Yeerk in her head? Cassie, the hypocrite? 'I don't believe in violence... except when I do.' Aximili, the pitiful, pale shadow of his dead brother? If only you'd insisted on going with Elfangor, maybe he'd have lived. Too bad. And Tobias, ah, yes, Tobias. The boy not really so trapped as a bird, eh, but too gutless to resume life as a human? And Rachel. My very favorite Animorph. Rachel, Rachel. Do you feel the adrenaline rush of murderous desire? Do you feel the urge to reach out and destroy me? Of course you do."
30
People don't understand the word ruthless. They think it means "mean." It's not about being mean. It's about seeing the bright, clear line that leads from A to B. The line that goes from motive to means. Beginning to end. It's about seeing that bright, clear line and not caring about anything but the beautiful fact that you can see the solution. Not caring about anything else but the perfection of it.
Megamorphs 3, Ax's chapter, on the beaches of Normandy during pseudo-WWII
I thought I understood humans. I understood nothing. They were mad! Lunatics. Evil, violent, destructive, hate-filled creatures.
<Ax-man! Are you hit?>
It was Tobias. I saw him, drifting, wings spread wide, above the smoke of battle.
<I am not injured,> I said. <But I must tell you: I am profoundly tired of your people.>
That's all I have now, but I've burst out into giggles over the course of my re-reading, so maybe I'll post humour shots later or something. =)
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The scene in 30 where Marco berates the imaginary kid criticizing him for killing his mother. The whole scene sticks in my head:
Someday, if we won, if humanity survived, we'd be in the history books. Me and Jake and Rachel and Cassie and Tobias and Ax. They'd be household names, like generals from World War II or the Civil War. Patton and Eisenhower, Ulysses Grant and Robert E. Lee.
Kids would study us in school. Bored, probably.
Some kid would laugh. Some kid would say, "Cold, man. That was really cold."
I had to do it, kid. It was a war. It's the whole point, you stupid, smug, smirking little jerk! Don't you get it? It was the whole point. We hurt the innocent in order to stop the evil.
Innocent Hork-Bajir. Innocent Taxxons. Innocent human-Controllers.
How else to stop the Yeerks? How else to win?
No choice, you punk. We did what we had to do.
"Cold, man. The Marco dude? He was just cold."
Loved this quote! Book #30 was my favorite in the series, there was so much emotion in it.
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ax:prince jake
jake: don't call me prince
ax:yes prince jake
how can anyone forget that?
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The scene in 30 where Marco berates the imaginary kid criticizing him for killing his mother. The whole scene sticks in my head:
Someday, if we won, if humanity survived, we'd be in the history books. Me and Jake and Rachel and Cassie and Tobias and Ax. They'd be household names, like generals from World War II or the Civil War. Patton and Eisenhower, Ulysses Grant and Robert E. Lee.
Kids would study us in school. Bored, probably.
Some kid would laugh. Some kid would say, "Cold, man. That was really cold."
I had to do it, kid. It was a war. It's the whole point, you stupid, smug, smirking little jerk! Don't you get it? It was the whole point. We hurt the innocent in order to stop the evil.
Innocent Hork-Bajir. Innocent Taxxons. Innocent human-Controllers.
How else to stop the Yeerks? How else to win?
No choice, you punk. We did what we had to do.
"Cold, man. The Marco dude? He was just cold."
Loved this quote! Book #30 was my favorite in the series, there was so much emotion in it.
Embarrassing admission time: I actually cried when I read that in the book, that was... Incredibly intense. I mean, I REALLY felt for Marco there. I felt.. I felt like he was real. Y'know? Like how imagine anyone in that situation would feel, but the way that was written, it just gave you some insight. Incredible insight. The AppleGrant is amazing.
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'...It would be so easy... I had the power. I had the power to destroy her before she destroyed me.
I should do it.
But I knew I wouldn't. Not now. Not tonight. Not in cold blood. Life was sacred. Even the life of an enemy.
But how about the lives of my friends? Weren't their lives more sacred?...'
- #19:The Departure - pg.68.
Extract from Cassie's internal conflict, upon meeting the Controller Karen. The line in bold gives me the shivers everytime I read it, dunno know why.
I think it's because, before I read this book I had it in my head that, in a fight, you fight to save your friends, not protect your enemies. And Cassie here, is the only one of the Anis, whom I think, was capable of seeking for an alternative.
I imagine it takes a person of an exeptional kind, to spare the life of a sworn enemy. Killing the person who'll bring you down, is easy. Commandable it is to think of an alternative.
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book 21
tobias: did you unplug the computer?
*marco narrating* i nearly splatted into the nearby roof from sheer duh.
haha that was such a funny way to say duh that its been hard to forget
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"You know, back in the old days -- I mean, the real, real old days -- the Africans, the Europeans, the Native Americans...they all believed animals had spirits. And they would call on those spirits to protect them from evil. They would ask the spirit of the fox for his cunning. They'd ask the spirit of the eagle for his sight. They would ask the lion for his strength.
"I guess what we're doing is sort of basic. Even though it was Andalite technology that made it possible. We're still just scared little humans trying to borrow the mind of the fox, and eyes of the eagle...or the hawk," she added, smiling at Tobias. "And the strength of the lion. Just like thousands of years ago, we're calling on the animals to help protect us from evil." ~ Cassie
"We need to get some help from Mother Earth's toughest children." ~ Jake
Marco: "You seem perky, today. You want something to drink?"
Jake: "What are you going to do, morph a cow and squeeze me out a glass of two percent?"
All are from book one.
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a lot of mine were already said.
Another one for me, was the one in Megamorphs 3 when they arrived at Princeton University and that student talked to Cassie:
'"How did you do that?" the man with the southern accent demanded. And then, like some vile punctuation, he added a word I won't repeat.'
i just remember being like shocked reading that as a kid. I think it was because i'm half-black and look it(People seem to think i'm either all black or hispanic). My mom's a single mom and her and my sister are white so I really stood out (especially since my entire elementary school was all white lol) My mom always told me as a kid to let her know if people ever called me those names.
So that part of the book just really stuck with me. Cassie's 'Rachel' moment in response has to be one of my top Cassie moments EVER! xD
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Marco: "You seem perky, today. You want something to drink?"
Jake: "What are you going to do, morph a cow and squeeze me out a glass of two percent?"
All are from book one.
That bit's from #54?
And on the Cassie quote: I didn't actually realize what he said until a long time afterward. XD I reread MM3 and went :wow:
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I didn't realize it was a word like that... I thought it was a usual insult...
End of #19:
"So?" Rachel demanded, holding up two sweaters. "Which one do you like?
The green or the red?"
I thought of Aftran, the enemy. I thought of her swimming blind in the
Yeerk pool, with only her memories of a brighter world. She'd told me that humans live in paradise. She'd turned her back on paradise to
make a small peace.
"Both, Rachel. And I like the blue. And the yellow. And that gross color
there. And the stripes. We live in paradise, Rachel, and we don't even
know it. And we don't know when it might end. We'd have to be fools not
to enjoy it while we can. So, whip out your credit card, girl, we're
adding some color!"
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I love that about this series. It can take something entirely fictional and very alien (Yeerks, in this case, and Aftran in particular) and really humanize and emotionalize it. Not much sci fi or fantasy succeeds in that sort of thing. The best you usually see is something that's essentially human, but looks different (a lizard man or a mermaid or whatever) feeling something about something that's essentially just a human dilemma anyway.
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"Any life is better than none, and no matter how awful things seem, there is always meaning and purpose to be found." - i think its from the andalite chronicles.
and of course. Ax's lines. especially when he is in his human morph.
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When Rachel talks to Rachel in 48, when David is beggin her to kill him.
"I'm one of the good guys."
<Then do the godo thing.>
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Oh, how I do love Rachel ;D In book 32, when some boy attempts to chat up Rachel:
"Of course I look good," I snapped. "I almost always do. You have something else to say?"
I guess that threw him. He shrugged.
"Looking good," he repeated. "Looking real good."
"I think we've been over that," I said. "Yes, I am good-looking. Yes, I have great hair. Yes, I have a great body. Now go away."
"You are so stuck-up!"
"That's right, I am. Now you know the difference between good looks and a good personality."
He left.
*high five to Rachel* I loved this exchange, and remember thinking "GIRL POWER!" and wanting to be as tough and cool as Rachel hehehe
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dude i loved that exchange too! it was pure awesome!
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"They truly sickened me with their self-indulgence and their childishness. But then, I reminded myself, they are children and so am I. If i were at home, I would still be a cadet in the Andalite Military Acadamy. I would spend most of my time in my parents' scoop. But I had been thrust into the midst of this raging war on Earth. I had seen more battles, death, and destruction than many seasoned soldiers in our Andalite fleet. I felt my throat tighten and constrict. My hearts ached with a pain I could not describe. I wondered if I were dying. I felt not sadness. I felt pity. For myself. For us all. we were children no longer. And we never would be again."
Ax in book #52 The Sacrifice
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Rachel narrating: "I wondered if-"
[spoiler]Rachel's last words/thoughts. How can anyone forget that?[/spoiler]
-
Ugh. Makes me cry EVERY SINGLE TIME I read it.
-
"They truly sickened me with their self-indulgence and their childishness. But then, I reminded myself, they are children and so am I. If i were at home, I would still be a cadet in the Andalite Military Acadamy. I would spend most of my time in my parents' scoop. But I had been thrust into the midst of this raging war on Earth. I had seen more battles, death, and destruction than many seasoned soldiers in our Andalite fleet. I felt my throat tighten and constrict. My hearts ached with a pain I could not describe. I wondered if I were dying. I felt not sadness. I felt pity. For myself. For us all. we were children no longer. And we never would be again."
Ax in book #52 The Sacrifice
Man, I really hated that whole book, that specific section specifically. It disturbed and angered me how Ax was so judgmental when he's done things that the human kids saw as betrayals and they never went so far as to say they were sickened. It was the moment when I really saw the "Andalite arrogance" most clearly. Maybe I'm just hypocritical about other's hypocrisy, but seriously, I wanted to reach in there and tell Ax off.
(And did anyone realize that if Ax was in his Andalite form, he shouldn't have a throat to be tightened?)
-
for some reason I never forgot a sentence in book 16. "No chime cleft!" Said by Jake when demorphing from Rhino, or morphing Tiger. One or the other. A good case of narm.
-
(And did anyone realize that if Ax was in his Andalite form, he shouldn't have a throat to be tightened?)
Well he has a neck. And presumably he has nasal passageways that go to his lungs. So something could tighten. But yeah, not the throat in the way we perceive it....
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there wouldn't be an esophogous. the throat is the cavity with ur airway and esophogus leading to the stomach. he would still need his airways tho, even if he didnt have an esophogus.
bio nerds FTW :P
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There is one or two times in the series when Marco yells at Rachael for not saying "Lets do it!" For some reason, I never forgot that.
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Or in one of the early books... 4 or so... Marco jumps in and says "Let's do it!" before Rachel just because he wanted to beat her to it. That was hilarious to me.
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I think in the first book Marco is the first person to say Let's do it, and Rachel is the first to say This is insane.
-
"Let's...go for it?" -Rachel
"Hey, she cheated!" -Marco
I think that was in book 13.
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hahahha, the lets go for it line was priceless.
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Rachel was one of my favorite characters so just about any quote from the beginning of #54
[spoiler]
"Answer this, Ellimist: Did I . . . did I make a difference? My life, and my . . . my death . . .was I worth it? Did my life really matter?"
"Yes," he said. "You were brave. You were strong. You were good. You mattered."
"Yeah. Okay, then. Okay, then."
Very strong, especially since she had been battling with the internal good vs. bad thing for awhile. [/spoiler]
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Not my place to say, but Rachael and her internal struggle was very reminiscent of 'Nam..
Mine is;
"Wanna see my Lobster?" When Marco let's his dad in on the secret :D
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I'll always like Tom's line in uh...I think #53? Yeah.
"Little brother, you've got to know by now: Wars aren't won with clean hands."
It just kind of summarizes their tension and the morality of the whole series. And it's spoken by a "bad guy". Doubleplusgood?
-
Rachel narrating: "I wondered if-"
[spoiler]Rachel's last words/thoughts. How can anyone forget that?[/spoiler]
Ugh. Makes me cry EVERY SINGLE TIME I read it.
Me too.
I had a hard time staying calm during that entire scene, from the time she started her last battle until she finally finished her last conversation with the Ellimist. I'd give a lot to know what she was going to say...
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I love it in TEC when Cryack is like, "Lets play a game ellemist" and The Ellemist is like "Yes, the final game." One of the best lines of the series in my opinion.
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I went back through some of my favorite books today, and came up with a lot of good quotes. Nothing really funny here, just wisdom. If you want funny quotes, pick up a book where Ax or Marco is narrating. ;)
Ax in human morph, or Marco vs. Rachel, are particularly hilarious.
Anyway, here's my list of faves:
<There's only one way to deal with fear: Be afraid. Be afraid, and then go ahead and do what you have to do, anyway.>
- Tobias, from Megamorphs #1
<Those who have been to war understand. Those who have not have no opinion worth hearing.>
- Alloran, from The Andalite Chronicles
Because without life there is no despair, but without life there can also never be hope.
- Elfangor, from The Andalite Chronicles
And I leave as my last legacy a single word for all the free peoples of the galaxy. <Hope...>
- Elfangor, from The Aldalite Chronicles
"what's the point of winning, if by winning you lose what you were fighting for."
- Loren, from The Andalite Chronicles
"Events are intertwined in ways we cannot always see, Cassie. Sometimes small things can make huge differences. You know, they say that a single butterfly beating its wings in China may make a tiny change that becomes a bigger change that becomes a tornado. The world isn't like math. It isn't just one plus one equals two. It's more complicated than that."
- Ms. Paloma, from #7, The Stranger
<But my brother Elfangor once told me, "It's a leader's job to be lucky." Sometimes, success is just luck.>
- Ax, from #11, The Forgotten
"The thing about fear is you can’t be afraid of it. I know that sounds confusing. I guess what I mean is, be afraid if you have to, right? Fear is like this vicious little worm that lives inside you and eats you alive. You have to fight it. You have to know it’s there. You have to accept that you’ll never get rid of it, but fight it just the same. Brave isn't about not being afraid. It's about being scared to death and still not giving in."
- Rachel, from #12, The Reaction
"I guess sometimes you have to choose between smart, sane, ruthlessness, and totally stupid, insane hope. You can't just pick one and stick with it, either. Each time it comes up, you have to try and make your best decision. Most of the time, I guess I have to go with being smart and sane. But I don't want to live in a world where people don't try the stupid, crazy, hopeful thing sometimes."
- Jake, from #19, The Departure
"A fool is strong so that others will see. A wise person is strong for himself."
- Toby, from #23, The Pretender
Rachel: (frozen in time by the Ellimist, the moment before death) You.
Ellimist: Yes.
Rachel: Who are you? Who are you to play games with us? You appear, you disappear, you use us, who are you, what are you?
Ellimist: (tells his story, The Ellimist Chronicles)
Rachel: Answer this, Ellimist: Did I . . . did I make a difference? My life, and my . . . my death . . . was I worth it? Did my life really matter?
Ellimist: Yes. You were brave. You were good. You mattered.
Rachel: Yeah. Okay, then. Okay, then.
- from #54, The Beginning
That last quote is particularly meaningful to me; I get emotional every single time I read or think about it.
-
Ax: Dapsen. It's a Yeerk word that means... Well, never mind what it means, it's not nice.
LOL
Random kid: Say "Howard Stern rules!"
Parrot: Squuuaaaakkk! Amazon Cafe! It's an adventure!
Random kid: No, idiot bird dude, Howard Stern rules, man! Say "Howard Stern rules!"
Rachel: Moron.
Random kid: Yeah, this bird is a total moron.
Rachel: I wasn't talking about the bird, you-
For some reason, that scene always stuck with me.
Marco: Five bucks says she says, "Let's do it."
Rachel: ;) Let's... go for it.
Marco: Hey, she cheated!
-
Yes or NO convo wit Ax and Marco's dad
and everything in the Ellimist Chronicles
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Yes or NO convo wit Ax and Marco's dad
That was probably the most hilarious part of all the books.
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This one's probably already up at some point in this thread, but it's one of my favorite exchanges:
Ax: "I am ready. R-r-r-ready. Red. E. Red. E."
Marco: "How about putting on a shirt?"
Ax: "The men who are young and restless do not wear shirts. I am young. And I am occasionally restless."
Marco: "Ax?"
Ax: "Yes, Marco?"
Marco: "Put on a shirt."
-
16
"Is that a bear?"
"Yeah"
"Is it mopping the floor?"
"Uh-huh."
"Have we gone nuts?"
"I'm not nuts. It's the bear who's nuts. That's carpeted up there."
:D
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16
"Is that a bear?"
"Yeah"
"Is it mopping the floor?"
"Uh-huh."
"Have we gone nuts?"
"I'm not nuts. It's the bear who's nuts. That's carpeted up there."
:D
I cracked up when I was reading this scene; I laughed so hard my sides hurt, and everyone around me looked at me like I was crazy. Very fun! :D
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This one's probably already up at some point in this thread, but it's one of my favorite exchanges:
Ax: "I am ready. R-r-r-ready. Red. E. Red. E."
Marco: "How about putting on a shirt?"
Ax: "The men who are young and restless do not wear shirts. I am young. And I am occasionally restless."
Marco: "Ax?"
Ax: "Yes, Marco?"
Marco: "Put on a shirt."
I loved that one. XD Ax loves to watch "Young and Restless". But not as much as he loves These Messages.
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I don't know if anybody put this....
"T'Shondra," I said.
"Marco," she said.
"A beautiful name for a beautiful girl," I said.
"What is? Marco?"
"No, T'Shondra."
"What?"
"T'Shondra. I was just saying I thought it would be a beautiful name for
a beautiful girl."
"Oh, really!" she said, giving me serious fish-eye. "It would be, huh?
For a beautiful girl. But not for me, huh? Is that what you're saying? You just came all the way
over here, acting all cool, to tell me I should give my name to some beautiful girl because I'm too much of a pig to have the name?"
At this point I could have explained. But I had this bad feeling that the moment was past. You know? Like nothing I could possibly say was going to make this work.
"How about if we just say this conversation never happened?" I
suggested. "How about if I just turn and walk away?"
"That would be a good idea."
Now, where was I? Oh yeah, my name is Marco. And I can't tell you my last name or where I live. Why not? Because I'm hoping to live long enough to figure out females, that's why.
Post Merged: June 01, 2010, 03:50:38 PM
Then they annihilated all traces of Elfangor's ship.
All traces.
Or so I'd thought.
I was walking away from T'Shondra, shaking my head and muttering to
myself about females, when I saw it.
I didn't even see the kid holding it at first. I just saw the box.
The blue box.
The morphing cube.
= The Reign of David
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I didn't see it here, but I really liked in MM4 when the Ellimist was all It will end to Jake.
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For some reason one of Karen's lines from #19 has always stuck in my brain:
"Hey, we're not cows," Marco snapped. "You can't compare what you do to humans with what we do to cows."
"Sure I can. You're our meat!" Karen said.
I can really hear the harsh, spiteful line coming from a little girl's mouth in my head.
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I read most of the series a long time ago (over 10 years ago), never finished it, and just started rereading them. I'm amazed at the sense of humor and some of the content of the series.
"Hi, Rachel" book 13, brought a tear to my eye
"There's only one way to deal with fear: Be afraid. Be afraid and then do what you have to do anyway"
"Oh my God! She killed Kenny!"
"the use of rhetoric to obscure a lack of content"
"That's brilliant! It means the same as 'total bull' but sounds so much better"
"wait did he just say his name is Jeremy?"
"I'm okay. Professor Plum did it in the conservatory with the candlestick"
"Gee, Really?! Do you think?! Hold my breath?!"
"They're looking for andalites in morph"
"He's right. Jake? Start peeing on things again"
"See, I've always believed that to some extent you get to decide for yourself what your life will be like. You can either look at the world and say, 'oh, isn't it all so tragic, so grim, so awful.' Or you can look at the world and decide it's mostly funny."
Pretty much anything Jake said about being a leader. It didn't interest me much the first time I read them, but now it really hits home. It's weird and almost scary how many of those exact thoughts and feelings I've had. And I finally get why Ax always calls him prince.
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What book had the whole "they're looking for Andalites...Jake keep peeing"?
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That's gotta be 3, unless I'm mistaken :)
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Yep, pretty sure it's when they morph wolves for the first time, which was #3.
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Yeah ^^ That was awesome lol They don't go very quickly, because Jake pees everywhere all the time lol He can't help himself ^^' Poor Jake.
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Just re-read book 53. Chapter 15 breaks my heart every time reading it. When Jake's all "And I knew — knew beyond any doubt — that someone, and maybe more than someone, I loved was going to die." I'm just like </3
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"the use of rhetoric to obscure a lack of content"
This one is awesome and has actually found its way into being the title of my blog. :)
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OH yeah....in 33 when Ax and Tobias went into the break room and saw Hork Bajir playing cards? I thought that was a good comical image
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I started typing mine a while back, and realized that it was a bit long, so i spoilerized it.
[spoiler]
"oh, that's not a problem, I talked to Erek, he gave me the code, everyone memorize it... 6"
"6, their code is a single digit?"
"they were a trusting species" Cassie said simply
"and now they're dead" Ax said just as simply
He called me something I've been called before (rachel)
<I heard what that guy called you... he's perceptive> - Tobias
<You fight well for a human> - polar bear controller in book 54
Kinda sums her up, start to finish, good fighting, but still human
"Animorph!!!" - I love this one, the first time something morphed and the controllers didn't scream andalite
"Don't touch me Andalite Scum" - controller Jake
this one really hits you. This yeerk is looking at one hell of a promotion if he can pull this off, but he just
can't keep his cool around an andalite, even when so much is at stake
"Hey Tobias, I always wondered, are Hawks like pigeons, you just... you know... wherever you are" (Marco)
<Depends on who's under us> (Tobias)
"You should probably buy a hat marco" (Rachel)
<why are we climbing> I asked Aldrea
"on this planet, you go up to go left or right"
<I've been trying to tell them that for a long time, altitude's everything> -tobias
"Andalite"
<oh, so you are a controller, good, that makes things so much simpler>
<I can lead you to them> tobias said
I tried not to think about the reason Tobias would know the location of a litter of skunks
"are they alive"
<Some of them are>
-Tobias can be cold when he wants to be, but it's a form of acceptance and redemption for him.
<Ax, time?>
<We have been in morph for 97 of your minutes>
<you know ax, they're everyone's minutes, not just ours> (Marco)
<We have now been in morph for 98 of your minutes>
<I swear he does that on purpose> (Marco)
"Andalite"
<Surprise> Ax cried as he charged around the corner
I like how Ax gets a sort of "almost" humor mixed in with that almost accidental arrogance.
and finally:
A thermal is a column of warm air that rises straight up for miles
-just in case you didn't know
[/spoiler]
-
From HBC, an Esplin 9466 chapter:
I searched the data banks hungrily. And one day I realized I'd found my true calling.
I came across an old Andalite saying in the computer files. <Know your friends well. Know your enemies better.>
The Andalites were our enemies now.
Yes. Know your enemy.
That was my calling. That was the way to gaining my own host. I would learn all the computer held about the magnificent, powerful creatures called Andalites.
Someday we would face the Andalites in battle. Then I would be needed.
Man, I wish that the 'present day' Visser Three was still this cunning and awesome. I mean, sure it's reasonable for him to have grown far more arrogant as he moved off up in the Yeerk Empire, but he grew way too stupid and oafish as well.
(And did anyone realize that if Ax was in his Andalite form, he shouldn't have a throat to be tightened?)
He has no mouth, but he still breaths, so as other people mentioned there's nothing wrong with him having a throat though it wouldn't necessarily have an esophagus to swallow with... but when a better example about a KASU where the lack of "mouthparts" is forgotten is when V3's thought-speak of "Enraged shouts echoed throughout the canyon" in #39, The Hidden.
I'll always like Tom's line in uh...I think #53? Yeah.
"Little brother, you've got to know by now: Wars aren't won with clean hands."
It just kind of summarizes their tension and the morality of the whole series. And it's spoken by a "bad guy". Doubleplusgood?
I totally agree with the Doubleplusgood, in making a 'bad guy' bad, fiction tends to make them less intelligent and deep-thoughted, so it's nice when they do get a chance to have a good line.
19
Marco: "What's the deal with you, Cassie? Half the time you're giving us crap over being too ruthless or whatever. It's always, 'Oh, is this right?' and 'Oh, should we do this?' I mean, you're Miss Morality, and then when you have a bad night you just bail on us?'
...
"Fine. You have your morals and your fine feelings and all that. We'll go off and risk our lives to save the world. You just sit here and feel righteous."
I think it got even more serious as that conversation continued. This was probably where many fans get their source of Cassie hating. Marco leaves, then:
I heard the flutter of wings and realized Tobias was gone, too.
Rachel looked hurt..
Cassie: "Rachel we can still be-"
Rachel: "No we can’t, see you’ve just said the whole world can drop dead, so long as you, Cassie, don’t end up turning into me."
A couple of my own favorite quotes:
"I’m not even average height for my age, although I make up for it by being cute, very cute. And charming. And witty. And modest."
~Marco in #5, The Predator
The Starbucks guy handed Ax a paper cup. Ax took it. He looked around to see what other people were doing. Like them, he put a lid on his cup. Then, still mimicking the others, he attempted to drink.
”Um, Ax?”, [Marco] I said. “ You have to drink where the little hole is in the lid.”
”A hole! In the lid! No spills!!! Lllls!!”
This was the coolest thing Ax had ever seen. I guess coffee cup technology hasn’t advanced very far on the Andalite home world.
~#5, The Predator
Rachel: "...We have a mission here. So lets go and get it over with."
Jake: "Rachel's right, we can debate animal testing some other day," Prince Jake said. "Let's just do this. In, Out and Right back."
Ax: <After These Messages.>
~#28, The Experiment
And perhaps the deepest thought to ever come from a tree:
Ellimist: Then why have another child? If not the disease, then the monsters, or a famine. Why have another child?
Tree: Disease take one. Monster take one. Famine take one. More children, some live.
~Chronicles #4, The Ellimist Chronicles
One line that should have been in Animorphs: The way that Marco's pop culture references and humor worked, he definately should have thrown in a "It's Morphin' Time!" somewhere along the way.
-
"I am Canadese." --- Ax. I got to admit that it isn't very deep, but it is funny. I'll always remember that.
"Some people never change. Some do." The sentence on the cover of the Invasion. It's just amazing.
-
"Answer this Ellemist: Did I . . . did I make a difference? My life, and my . . . my death was . . . was I worth it? Did my life really matter?"
"Yes," he said. "You were brave. You were strong. You were good. You mattered."
"Yeah. Okay, then. Okay, then."
I wondered if --
-----------------
I know someone already posted this, but yeah, this is the most memorable section of the animorphs books to me. Very touching.
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but yeah, this is the most memorable section of the animorphs books to me. Very touching.
I totally agree. That's probably the most memorable part of the series for me, too, and definitely the most touching.
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"You think everything is so simple, don't you? That it's all either right or wrong, black or white. A good guy, a bad guy, and nothing in between."
"we have to win"
I don't know why at the time, but these stuck with me. Later I was reading another book on human nature and it brought up a good point, Everyone is justified in everything they do, at least at the time they do it, in their own mind. And I thought of those lines from the books. It made me realize how easy it is to see yourself as doing the right thing, being good, and your enemy as evil without realizing that from their point of view, they are doing the right thing and you're the one that's evil. And in reality both sides have done plenty of evil and good things. And how you can justify anything you do to stop the ultimate evil that is your enemy because you are stopping that evil and "we have to win" and before your fight to stop evil is over, you could have become worse than what it was you were fighting.
-
"You think everything is so simple, don't you? That it's all either right or wrong, black or white. A good guy, a bad guy, and nothing in between."
Tom says that one right?
-
We have our ultimate weapon," Marco reported to the others when we were
all safely assembled back in Cassie's barn. "Maple and ginger oatmeal."
"Instant maple and ginger oatmeal," I corrected.
"Instant," Marco agreed.
Cassie, Ax, and Tobias all just stared. Tobias was his hawk self, and he
can really stare. Ax was in his own Andalite body, and he could stare
with four eyes at once.
"Oatmeal," Cassie said.
"Oatmeal," Jake confirmed. "But only the instant maple and ginger. !
guess they don't know why."
<Maybe it's the maple,> Tobias suggested.
"Maybe it's the ginger. Or maybe it's the 'instant.'
-
"It's Oat-Freakin-Meal!" sorry couldn't resist :-]
"You think everything is so simple, don't you? That it's all either right or wrong, black or white. A good guy, a bad guy, and nothing in between."
Tom says that one right?
Yeah Tom said it
-
But you can be more or less wrong, more or less right. The statement "good guys, bad guys" assumes entire forces that are fighting against each other, and this characterization can be as accurate as anything can be to describe the broad majority trying to effect their change. Individuals within each side may be neither all right or all wrong, but the cause they are fighting for can be - I mean, if you have time in war to know the individuals on the other side, this quote is a good thing to always keep on your mind. But if at the moment, it's kill or be killed, you have to have other things on mind to survive.
I haven't been here in a very long time, so I'm sorry if this seems Captain Obvious or just random or too simplistic.
-
"You think everything is so simple, don't you? That it's all either right or wrong, black or white. A good guy, a bad guy, and nothing in between."
"we have to win"
I really love that bit.
-
"You think everything is so simple, don't you? That it's all either right or wrong, black or white. A good guy, a bad guy, and nothing in between."
"we have to win"
I really love that bit.
Me too.
Before I read Animorphs, I thought of the world as basically black and white. Either something was wrong, or it was right. Now, I view the world as mostly shades of gray, with very little black/white. It's amazing how a few little sentences can change an entire worldview.
-
But you can be more or less wrong, more or less right
That's true, actually that's half the point, there are good guys and bad guys, but the good guys are only mostly good, and the bad guys are only mostly bad, it's those annoying shades of gray
but the cause they are fighting for can be
Yes, it can, but that's where the problem is. Even if your cause is right, when you're willing to do anything for it, justifying it by saying the endstate is worth any cost, basically "we have to win" it allows you to commit atrocities.
Take communism for instance, the final idea is that everyone in the world would be taken care of. That noone would suffer because of a lack of anything. Everyone would have enough food, money, whatever in order to live well enough. A very worthy cause (although I don't think it could work). However in the course of trying to bring this about, Stalin had around 10 million people killed between purges and engineered famine (the actual number Stalin had killed is in dispute, this is actually a lower end figure though)
if at the moment, it's kill or be killed, you have to have other things on mind to survive.
Yeah, the soldiers on the other side might believe in what they're fighting for, they might have been forced to fight, they might have been lied to to get them to fight, but the (sad) fact is that they are still going to kill you if you don't kill them first so you have to kill them.
-
But you can be more or less wrong, more or less right
That's true, actually that's half the point, there are good guys and bad guys, but the good guys are only mostly good, and the bad guys are only mostly bad, it's those annoying shades of gray
but the cause they are fighting for can be
Yes, it can, but that's where the problem is. Even if your cause is right, when you're willing to do anything for it, justifying it by saying the endstate is worth any cost, basically "we have to win" it allows you to commit atrocities.
I agree with you that having a 'right' cause or a 'greater good' that it is worth committing 'lesser evils' for is problematic, in that it will allow one to justify the committing of atrocities;but this seems to be an arguement against what you and earlier posts seem to be saying, that the world has to be viewed in 'shades of gray.' This explanation seems to suggest that one must view things as black and white and only be willing to do the 'white' thing (ha ha).
Take communism for instance, the final idea is that everyone in the world would be taken care of. That noone would suffer because of a lack of anything. Everyone would have enough food, money, whatever in order to live well enough. A very worthy cause (although I don't think it could work). However in the course of trying to bring this about, Stalin had around 10 million people killed between purges and engineered famine (the actual number Stalin had killed is in dispute, this is actually a lower end figure though)
I don't think that this is a viable example of committing 'lesser evils' and escalating to atrocities in order to accomplish a just cause. The problem here isn't with the ideology with Communism itself, if Communism were ever truly implemented according to its ideals it would never necessitate committing 'lesser evils' on the way to its goals; the problem isn't that ideology necessitates committing atrocities on the way to a worthy cause, it is just that no human is capable (or often willing) to actually pursue a purely altruistic goal and instead will pursue goals that involve their own personal interests; I would say that the fact that Stalin brought about such unspeakable acts is evidence that he wasn't actually pursuing a just cause, not that he was choosing to do what it takes to reach a just cause.
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This is from a fanfic, Angels Rush In (http://www.fanfiction.net/s/6145340/1/Angels_Rush_In), but I still think it's worth posting here.
Earth lost many battles against the Yeerk army before it won the war, but Marco observed privately that the Animorphs themselves lost the fight personally the day that Rachel died.
-
"That was the end of smart. And the beginning of right." -Marco rescuing his father, #45
"See, you've just said the whole world can drop dead, so long as you, Cassie, don't end up turning into me." -Rachel, #19
Any of Marco's "point A to point B" narrations are always great, and horribly sad, food for thought. And Rachel's final scene, of course. Absolutely beautiful. Also, Dak Hamee's amazing speeches.
-
"Long story, weird story" -Jake explaining Tobias being Elfangor's son, book 31
-
ugh, my off topic sense is tingling, but I'll risk it.
an arguement against what you and earlier posts seem to be saying, that the world has to be viewed in 'shades of gray.' This explanation seems to suggest that one must view things as black and white and only be willing to do the 'white' thing (ha ha).
ehh, not really, partly because half my point is that it's freakin confusing. But also because even though there can be an ideal which is white, the means to achieve it would have to go into the gray, which is somewhat paradoxical because then the white ideal would have to be gray just because of how it's acheived :explode: So you can't really get into the pure white goodness, at best you can only approach it.
The problem here isn't with the ideology with Communism itself, if Communism were ever truly implemented according to its ideals it would never necessitate committing 'lesser evils' on the way to its goals;
I think it actaully does, someone briefly explained it to me, so there's a good chance I'm wrong, but I think in the communist literature, it admits there would have to be a period of something like a dictartorship before the utopian world could emerge.
Other than that though, in order for it to work, resources would have to be distributed fairly equally among people, if the people who controlled the vast majority of these resources didn't feel inclined to share, they'd have to be "convinced" to do so in order for communism to be acheived.
If you prefer though, you could take a revolution to gain freedom as an alternative, or just about anything really, there's no shortage of examples
and just to balance the off topicness of it
"you know, before I started hanging with you people, I didn't even know there was such a thing as sunrise. No, I mean it. I knew the sun set. And when I woke up each morning it was back in the sky, but the actual rising part..."
I can so relate to that one
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Don’t know if these have been used, but i love them to much to not say them.
Anyone who doesn’t remember the “Tobias reassert your individual consciousness” Marco “say what? Reassert what?” funniest thing I have ever read I think.
And my most memorable of the whole series, the saddest and the most bad-ass.
For a wondrous, frozen moment we all waited,
stared, breathed, tensed, expectant.
I felt. . .
I felt exalted.
It was my moment. This was my place and my
time and my own perfection.
I was no longer afraid. Weird. If I'd had a
mouth I'd have smiled.
<Well?> I said.
No one moved.
<Scared?> I asked.
No answer.
<You should be,> I said, almost laughing.
I remember reading that the first time, and all the sadness I felt for Rachel was gone for just a second as I went into her final battle with her. Just for a moment though.
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"When do we get to switch to nice, peaceful Riven?" -Marco, #23
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ugh, my off topic sense is tingling, but I'll risk it.
lol. Well as far as I'm concerned you never know what is going to spawn the most worthwhile conversations, which is why most people aren't huge on smacking down off topic side-conversations; so I don't worry about going off topic as long as the discussion stays productive. Besides, if it becomes too distracting to the main topic or large enough to justify its own thread it can be moved if necessary.
...This explanation seems to suggest that one must view things as black and white and only be willing to do the 'white' thing (ha ha).
ehh, not really, partly because half my point is that it's freakin confusing. But also because even though there can be an ideal which is white, the means to achieve it would have to go into the gray, which is somewhat paradoxical because then the white ideal would have to be gray just because of how it's acheived :explode: So you can't really get into the pure white goodness, at best you can only approach it.
See, again I understand what you are saying, but your argument seems to be opposed to the sentiment. The sentiment of yours and others in the "black and white" vs. "shades of gray" is to go with shades of gray (Which I am not saying I disagree with), that is to say "When an you are pursuing ideal is so worthwhile enough, you have to be willing to do some things that are not so good; side with a lesser evil rather than risking to allow the greater evil to prevail." But while saying this, you conceded that it is problematic to stick with this viewpoint because it can allow one end up justifying becoming as bad as what they oppose by committing great atrocities; my point is that this is a strong argument for why one might want to avoid looking at things in terms of 'shades of gray.'
The same is true for this argument, that looking at a realistic situation can be very confusing because there can be so many 'good' and 'bad' options, but pursuing a 'white' ideal via 'gray' methods only becomes paradoxical in the way you describe (I think I would have used the term 'self defeating' instead of 'paradoxical', because as you said the ideal that was supposed to be 'white' becomes tainted with 'gray') if you view the situation in terms of 'shades of gray.' If you view the situation in terms of 'black and white' then it is simple: Some things are 'black' and some things are 'white' and in pursuit of your goal you must only be willing to do the 'white' thing, even at the risk of failing to accomplish it, because doing something 'black' in pursuit of something 'white' taints the 'white' making it 'black' and therefore not worth the cost of pursing.
Again, I'm not saying I stick to strictly 'black and white' myself (although I suppose I'm not explicitly saying I don't), but I'm saying that your point of 'viewing a realistic situation in terms of its shades of gray can be confusing because it becomes endlessly complicated' is an argument for only viewing things in terms of 'black and white' because it is not worth the risk of allowing yourself to become worse than what you are trying to avoid; while there really hasn't been much justification for the 'shades of gray' view being worth the risk.
The problem here isn't with the ideology with Communism itself, if Communism were ever truly implemented according to its ideals it would never necessitate committing 'lesser evils' on the way to its goals;
I think it actaully does, someone briefly explained it to me, so there's a good chance I'm wrong, but I think in the communist literature, it admits there would have to be a period of something like a dictartorship before the utopian world could emerge.
You've got the right idea here; the 'dictatorship' that you are referring to is the Dictatorship of the Proletariat; what is intended in Marxist theory to be the transitional phase between capitalism and a true communist society. The problem here is that you assume that a dictatorship is necessarily 'evil' that would have to occur before the 'good', but again I will say that the problem isn't with the idea itself, but in the flaws in human nature that ruin its execution.
A single person ruling over others is not necessarily an 'evil' thing in its ideal, the ruler/ruled relationship is the first type of human relationships according to Confucianism and is second in importance to father/child relationship only because the ruler/ruled relationship is supposed to be modeled after the father/son relationship: The ruled recognizes that the ruler has the right to rule because without the ruler providing order to life his life, the ruler would be worse off; and the ruler recognizes that along with the right to rule they have a responsibility and obligation to the ruled. In this relationship the ruler lives as a moral example to the ruled and makes decisions altruistically to benefit the ruled and the ruled recognize the good example of the ruler and follow it and the decisions of the ruler absolutely; the ruler never needs to use their position to force following because their example alone is enough for ruled to recognize and follow.
In the case of Communism's Dictatorship of the Proletariat, the term 'dictator' refers to a Republic (group of rulers) that is elected democratically by the proletariat who have withdrawn their support of the capitalist class (bourgeoisie). Ideally, the bourgeoisie recognize that the proletariat are forming an ideal society and that previous ruling of one class over another was wrong so they relinquish the control to the proletariat (there is none of the 'not feeling inclined to share' or 'need to be convinced'). 'Dictator' in this case is used in the Roman 'dictatura' manner, where the dictator(s) is/are given absolute power in pursuit of a goal, but they use that power without abuse and must justify their actions after their rule: Again, there should be no 'evil' involved, the people recognize a small group of individuals can organize the society to benefit all and give them authority to do so, the group does so altruistically and benefits all, then the group relinquishes power because everyone following the proper roles and behaviors in society do not need any form of government.
Communism as an ideal does not require any 'lesser evils' in pursuit of a 'greater good', it is only that humans are incapable or unwilling to pursue these goals altruistically (which is why a dictatura hasn't practically been implemented in almost 2000 years and has given way to what we know as dictatorship today); my reason for not subscribing to Communism isn't because it is ideally wrong, but because I don't believe it can ever be practically implemented by humans.
Don’t know if these have been used, but i love them to much to not say them.
Anyone who doesn’t remember the “Tobias reassert your individual consciousness” Marco “say what? Reassert what?” funniest thing I have ever read I think.
I don't know, Ax is definitely the most unintentionally hilarious character, but I thought these sort of "Ax says something intelligent and the Anis just don't get it" jokes were overdone, a lot of the time what he says isn't so complicated that they should have a problem understanding the idea that he is talking about, even when it isn't a part of their vernacular. I love your Rachel quote though, very bad-ass.
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ohh... this is making my head hurt. It's ok though, I don't think I've had a discussion that's made me think this much since my friend and I tried to solve the dichotomy paradox.
ok, I don't think I'm quite understanding what you're saying, so to try fix the confusion I'm going to state as precisely as I can, my view on it with as little supporting evidence as possible for simplicity, rather than addressing what you're saying, and then try to see exactly where the problem is coming from.
1) There are ideals which appear to be black and white
2) In practice these ideals can only be achieved through methods that are gray
3) Because that these ideals can't be achieved without the gray methods, they're are not truly black and white
4) As long as the issues are viewed as black and white, it either allows the justification of anything to achieve them (since anything that brings about the accomplishment of these white ideals would have to be white by virtue of bringing about the ideal), or causes a "paralysis" since nothing could be achieved without going gray, or the gray has to be ignored, which is really just another form of the anything is justified option
5) That only by admitting that the issues are gray can someone protect themselves from either the "justification" or "paralysis" options
6) By admitting it's gray a person has to constantly reevaluate whether the methods, means, and consequences of both pursuing the ideal or not pursuing the ideal (the lesser of two evils choice) are worth the accomplishment of the ideal- it's important to realize that a person could still choose to justify anything for the ideal
7) Therefore (paradoxically) the "whitest" a person can be in pursuit of these is by embracing that it's not white and that gray things must be done
8) The ideals can never truly be achieved because they are white and by the mere accomplishment of them they turn gray, they can however be approached (sort of like trying to achieve perfection, while at the same time admitting that perfection is unachievable. The only way to continue to improve is to work towards perfection even though you know you can never reach it)
As far as the communism thing though, yeah on paper it looks good (like as said, someone briefly explained the dictatorship thing to me, I had assumed he meant that it implied coercion to get people to follow the ideal), but to actually achieve it, it has to go into that gray, I'm getting the feeling we're saying the same things differently, just differently enough to not realize it. I've had a lot of long arguments like that, where someone else and I were basically trying to convince each other of the exact same thing and neither of us realized it.
“Tobias reassert your individual consciousness” Marco “say what? Reassert what?” funniest thing I have ever read I think.
I had forgotten about that, I think I laughed for 5 minutes straight when I read that. I think only the "she killed kenny" line made me laugh more
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I loved the Riven reference in #23 x3
And I love pretty much all of #19.
"This human host has no secrets from me," said Karen. "I know what she thinks."
"And feels," I (Cassie) said.
"And feels!" Karen shot back. "She hates me, okay? She sits there in the back of my head and imagines me dying a slow, torturous, screaming death! That's what she feels, hate! Hate! Hate!"
And all the birds fall silent...
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I just finished #26, and Ax's line about enlightened self-interest hit home. I've been reading Atlas Shrugged, by Ayn Rand, so that means something.
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...I'm getting the feeling we're saying the same things differently, just differently enough to not realize it. I've had a lot of long arguments like that, where someone else and I were basically trying to convince each other of the exact same thing and neither of us realized it.
I know what you mean about debating something and then realizing that you both agree in your position but had expressed it differently, I've been there.
One case where I can see that we differed in expressing our views: In #4 you say that "As long as the issues are viewed as black and white, it either allows the justification of anything to achieve them (since anything that brings about the accomplishment of these white ideals would have to be white by virtue of bringing about the ideal)..." I was including this as a type of 'shades of gray' view, because it involves weighing something that would in itself be 'black' as a 'black' thing that is 'not black enough' to outweigh a 'white' thing and therefore worth doing in pursuit of the white thing. When I spoke of a 'black and white' viewpoint, I spoke only of it in the second sense that you discussed, not being willing to do anything that involves any action that is 'black'.
Here, I'm wasn't so much trying to support one view or another, but was pointing out that many people are expressing the "You have to view things in shades of gray, not in black and white" idea, but the only thing that they are saying on the subject is "Of course, it can be very dangerous to do so, you can end up committing atrocities by justifying them in pursuit of your goal" (again, you called this a 2nd type of black and white view, where something is considered 'white' in pursuit of a 'white' goal, or the ends justify the means', while I referred to this as part of 'shades of gray' because because it allows doing something normally bad in pursuit of something 'more good'; same thing but from your perspective the person justifying would be referring to something normally'black' as 'white' because of its role in achieving a 'white' goal).
Anyways, the way many people will express being for viewing things in 'shades of gray' rather than 'black and white' but only express that 'allowing yourself to do something wrong in pursuit of something right is dangerous' is concerning to me because a lot of times readers will say that they agree with an author's thoughts (like that you have to view things in shades of gray) without stopping to evaluate whether they have an intellectual reason for agreeing or they are just being agreeable. I guess what I wanted to bring out of this discussion is why it is worth it to view things in shades of gray if it allows justifying 'wrong' things in the pursuit of something right.
If your only thoughts on the subject was 'viewing things in shades of gray can be more dangerous than viewing things in black and white' then you would be very foolish, what you've clarified in your last post is that you are not foolish, but that you have further thoughts on why 'viewing in shades of gray' is worth the risk. For one thing, you've included that you can mitigate the risk of allowing yourself to become as bad as what you are against by constantly weighing your methods, means, and consequences and ideals (6). Along with mitigating the risk, you assert that you can achieve more 'whiteness' ultimately by allowing methods that are 'not so white' (7). Therefore you've justified that in fact there is plenty of good reason for deciding personally that it is worth it to view things in terms of 'shades of gray'.
Now so far, I have not actually taken a position, only pointed out where your ideas fit in terms of one side or the other, but for the sake of discussion I can. (If you are enjoying this conversation as much as I am then we really should move it to its own topic at this point rather than continue to be off topic here indefinitely. I don't know exactly how the moderation is implemented here, is it too much trouble for a mod to move our series of posts to their own thread while leaving our comments here that are on topic?).
So far, we have in general terms defined 3 basic approaches to decision making in deciding what methods (or means) to take to reach ends(or ideals as we've mostly put it) (Let me know if you want to clarify/reword some of my way of expressing these 3 approaches:
1. Simple Black and White: This is a stricter view of 'black and white' as I've interpreted it from the beginning. It involves not being willing to do any action that you would consider wrong in order to achieve something right. From this approach, end never justify the means, the means must be justifiable actions in and of themselves.
2. Ends Justify the Means: I considered this a type of 'shades of gray' but you considered it a type of 'black and white'. It involves saying that if you pick an ideal to be a 'greater good' it is worth committing any action to achieve it. From my perspective this was type of 'shades of gray' viewpoint, since it involves saying that a 'lesser black' is OK in pursuit of a 'greater white', though you considered this type of 'black and white since someone using this approach could say "if a 'white' ideal is worthy enough of pursuing, then methods that might in and of themselves be considered 'lesser black' methods are now 'white' methods because the the ideal they reach." As the name implies, as long as the End is a 'greater' good by the person taking the actions, then reaching those ends always justifies lesser means that would otherwise be unjustified.
3. Weighed Shades of Gray: This is a stricter view of 'shades of gray' as you've interpreted it from the beginning. It involves not only acknowledging that some things are 'less good' or 'more good' and 'less bad' or 'more bad', but constantly weighing those when making decisions. It allows doing things that would by themselves be 'a little black' in pursuit of a 'greater white' goal, but the constant weighing ensures that you are always coming out 'more good than bad' and never end up becoming as bad as what you are trying to avoid. In this case the ends justify the means only if the means are kept as 'little bad' as possible in pursuit of the ends and the means are never allowed to become as bad as the end that is trying to be avoided.
Now, provided that those 3 approaches are adequately clear, I can, for the sake of discussion, take a position to provide a counterpoint to your point. I think we both agree that position 2, Ends Justify the Means, is a poor method of decision making, in that it too easily allows abuse of justifying your actions; but I will argue that Simple Black and White (option 1) has plenty plenty of merit that justifies it as a better option than your position of Weighed Shades of Gray (3). From now on, I'll only refer to them by the names I have given them rather than their number to avoid confusion when I refer to your numbered points, feel free to suggest alternate names for these three approaches if you think another name is more appropriate to express the approach.
Taking your statement 1 further, we can assume that rather than just having ideal 'appear' black and white, a person can have sorted out their entire beliefs on what is good and right vs. what is bad and wrong and furthermore is capable of deciding how bad and how good each thing is relative to the others. Lets assume that this person has already rejected Ends Justify the Means as too risky because it is can too easily allow him to unintentionally become in his actions than what he is trying to prevent; but this person is still up in the air as to whether he should view things in terms of Simple Black and White or Weighed Shades of Gray. It is important to this person to decide which approach to take with the decisions in his life because he recognizes that he as an individual is capable of much good (and he wants to do so) and there is a lot of bad in the world to oppose and outdo.
Though it is a philosophical difference, I will say I don't except your statement #3, I would say that a 'white' ideal/goal/end is still white (and a black one still black) in and of it self; that you must not say "a white ideal reached with methods both black and white is not truly white" but just that "that white ideal was reached through white and black means." You'll notice that I said 'white and black' rather than 'gray' because I would like to expand your your #2 statement by adding a definition: 'Gray' can refer to a series of methods, some white and some black. From the Weighed Shades of Gray perspective these individual methods can be 'less or more white' or 'less or more black' so that a series of methods of varying 'shades' can have an 'overall' shade to compare to an ideal to say 'is this series of methods, with some things that are 'less bad' worthwhile to accomplish this goal?" For a White or Black perspective however 'less' and 'more' mean nothing, a method is either white or black, there is no gray; and if a series of actions to reach a goal needs to have even one 'black' method in it, then it is not worth pursuing to reach the 'white' goal.
Here is where I'll disagree with you: I disagree with the assumption in #2 that in practice white ideals can be reached only with methods that are 'gray'. There are plenty of things that can be accomplished through only doing good things, there are plenty of ideals that can be reached and even if you limit your immediate effects with small good things they can have lasting impacts causing greater good things later. I will concede that there are certainly some goals, perhaps even a majority of goals, that can only be accomplished by involving some bad actions along the way and therefore become impossible to a person following the Simple Black and White approach, but I argue that if our theoretical person decides to follow the Simple Black and White approach, even though he has to decide that this makes several goals impossible, he still has plenty of goals he can continue to approach and reach through white methods.
On the other hand, if our theoretical person follows the Weighed Shades of Gray path, he risks doing more harm than good. Even though we have assumed that he knows what he believes to be right and wrong and that he knows how they compare to each other as 'less or more right/wrong' he still may be incapable of weighing the complexities of a large situation with so many different aspects and therefore endless options that all must be weighed against each other (as you have conceded, the endless prospects become mind-blowing); and because he may not be capable of fully weighing all of his actions and their consequences against his ideals he may end up doing more harm than good.
Furthermore, there is always the possibility of failing to achieve your goals. Following Simple Black and White our theoretical person may say "I have to do these five actions in order to reach my goal; though some of them may not actually do any good on their own, none of them are bad." If, three actions into it the person fails, then their actions may or may not have a lasting good, but at least they have done no bad (no harm, no foul). If our person, on the other hand, takes the Weighed Shades of Gray approach he can say"Instead, I can pursue this other goal, it requires five actions as well, an #2 and #4 are slightly bad but necessary, and reaching my goal would be a lot more good!" But if he fails to achieve this goal along the way, he is stuck living with the consequences of the harm done through #2 with nothing good to show for it.
Therefore, even knowing right and wrong and trying ones best; human fallibility makes Weighed Shades of Gray a cause of too many problems in this world when Simple Black and White can only serve a just cause.
It's ok though, I don't think I've had a discussion that's made me think this much since my friend and I tried to solve the dichotomy paradox.
OK, so I know that at this point I'm even going off-topic of our off-topic conversation, but I think this part is actually pretty easy to handle. The dichotomy paradox is easy enough to solve by recognizing that Zeno's problem here is that he assumes two contradictory things: He assumes that a space is infinitely divisible and that an infinite number of actions is not possible. That these two assumptions allow you to reach a conclusion that is impossible is a strong suggestion that at least one of these assumptions is false. The assumption that is more obvious as a falsity from a modern perspective is that one cannot accomplish an infinite number of tasks in his sense of the word: After Zeno's time but before Calculus was developed mathematicians were able to demonstrate that an infinite series can converge to a finite limit and Calculus has shown us it much more simply and with very elegant proof thereof. Even in his time, without these proofs, the dichotomy paradox is one of his least confounding; there reaching a particular position in space fits within his definition a 'task' and he says that a given length can be infinitely divided into sub-lengths and I move from Point A to Point B along that length then there is no reason to suppose that I did not just pass through an infinite number of sub-points along the way so his maintaining that you cannot accomplish an infinite number of tasks is not only baseless but absurd.
Furthermore, his other assumption, that a given length can be infinitely divided, may in fact be false itself. It feels uncomfortable to us to view this 'digital' possibility of reality, but we certainly do not know enough about how reality (life, the universe and everything) works to definitely conclude that it does not function in this way; the more we study the incredibly small the more we see the matter and energy that makes up our universe behaving in this way: Energy is given off not just as analog waves of infinitely divisible amounts but also as specific quanta of energy; even light, which has no discernible mass spends far to much time behaving as a particle, in specific quanta that are not divisible. Quantum mechanics may ultimately lead us to the conclusion that though we think of lengths as being infinitely divisible (Sure, if I can have something that measures a meter, I can have something that measures in half a meter, or a quarter of a meter, or 1/8 of a meter and so on) it may be at some level no longer divisible, that all things that exist exist in specific quanta of dimensions and move about in space in specific quanta of distance, from a tiny position to a tiny adjacent position without being 'in between'. Heck, discovering the Planck length as it relates to other quantum aspects of matter already suggests that spacial dimensions are just as subject to quantization as other aspects of matter and energy.
Now that this so called 'paradox' is solvable by both philosophical reason, deduction and modern mathematics; as well as the other paradoxes of Zeno (many of which are really just different thought experiments that describe the same idea, and are all subject to mathematical solutions) is not to say that Zeno was flat out wrong. That is to say, many of his ideas were not only very influential to subsequent philosophers (along with his teachings from Parmenides) but are still very relevant to philosophical discussion. That is to say, though his so called paradoxes fail to support Parmenides' philosophy of unity and that all distinctions, dimensionality and motion are merely illusion; the fact that the paradoxes can be debunked does not disprove the philosophy either. When Parmenides discussed his doctrine of truth one "What is, is. What is always has been. What isn't, isn't. What isn't never will be." he not only reached a conclusion of the Law of Conservation of Energy in a philosophical context, but he brought up questions of metaphysical change that are still grappled with by philosophers today; so my saying that Zeno fails to support these ideas with his paradox is in no way meant to suggest that both he and Parmenides were anything less than great thinkers for what they have studied and brought about.
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It's ok though, I don't think I've had a discussion that's made me think this much since my friend and I tried to solve the dichotomy paradox.
OK, so I know that at this point I'm even going off-topic of our off-topic conversation, but I think this part is actually pretty easy to handle. The dichotomy paradox is easy enough to solve by recognizing that Zeno's problem here is that he assumes two contradictory things: He assumes that a space is infinitely divisible and that an infinite number of actions is not possible. That these two assumptions allow you to reach a conclusion that is impossible is a strong suggestion that at least one of these assumptions is false. The assumption that is more obvious as a falsity from a modern perspective is that one cannot accomplish an infinite number of tasks in his sense of the word: After Zeno's time but before Calculus was developed mathematicians were able to demonstrate that an infinite series can converge to a finite limit and Calculus has shown us it much more simply and with very elegant proof thereof. Even in his time, without these proofs, the dichotomy paradox is one of his least confounding; there reaching a particular position in space fits within his definition a 'task' and he says that a given length can be infinitely divided into sub-lengths and I move from Point A to Point B along that length then there is no reason to suppose that I did not just pass through an infinite number of sub-points along the way so his maintaining that you cannot accomplish an infinite number of tasks is not only baseless but absurd.
Furthermore, his other assumption, that a given length can be infinitely divided, may in fact be false itself. It feels uncomfortable to us to view this 'digital' possibility of reality, but we certainly do not know enough about how reality (life, the universe and everything) works to definitely conclude that it does not function in this way; the more we study the incredibly small the more we see the matter and energy that makes up our universe behaving in this way: Energy is given off not just as analog waves of infinitely divisible amounts but also as specific quanta of energy; even light, which has no discernible mass spends far to much time behaving as a particle, in specific quanta that are not divisible. Quantum mechanics may ultimately lead us to the conclusion that though we think of lengths as being infinitely divisible (Sure, if I can have something that measures a meter, I can have something that measures in half a meter, or a quarter of a meter, or 1/8 of a meter and so on) it may be at some level no longer divisible, that all things that exist exist in specific quanta of dimensions and move about in space in specific quanta of distance, from a tiny position to a tiny adjacent position without being 'in between'. Heck, discovering the Planck length as it relates to other quantum aspects of matter already suggests that spacial dimensions are just as subject to quantization as other aspects of matter and energy.
Now that this so called 'paradox' is solvable by both philosophical reason, deduction and modern mathematics; as well as the other paradoxes of Zeno (many of which are really just different thought experiments that describe the same idea, and are all subject to mathematical solutions) is not to say that Zeno was flat out wrong. That is to say, many of his ideas were not only very influential to subsequent philosophers (along with his teachings from Parmenides) but are still very relevant to philosophical discussion. That is to say, though his so called paradoxes fail to support Parmenides' philosophy of unity and that all distinctions, dimensionality and motion are merely illusion; the fact that the paradoxes can be debunked does not disprove the philosophy either. When Parmenides discussed his doctrine of truth one "What is, is. What is always has been. What isn't, isn't. What isn't never will be." he not only reached a conclusion of the Law of Conservation of Energy in a philosophical context, but he brought up questions of metaphysical change that are still grappled with by philosophers today; so my saying that Zeno fails to support these ideas with his paradox is in no way meant to suggest that both he and Parmenides were anything less than great thinkers for what they have studied and brought about.
[/quote]
Zeno! Not only a great question asker, but the founder of Stoicism.
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"Do you hate trash cans? Is that your problem? Do you just HATE TRASH CANS?!!"
YES THIS is the best quote ever. I will never forget it.
well that and Aximili in book 5 going crazy over coffee.
What do I do with the cup?
Throw it away
bad choice of words XD and the Radio Shack guy is all D:
and lets just say BUNZZ cause i will never see a Cinabun the same way again EVER. Aximili pops into my head as soon as I see it. wonder how many people that happened to.
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"Do you hate trash cans? Is that your problem? Do you just HATE TRASH CANS?!!"
YES THIS is the best quote ever. I will never forget it.
well that and Aximili in book 5 going crazy over coffee.
What do I do with the cup?
Throw it away
bad choice of words XD and the Radio Shack guy is all D:
and lets just say BUNZZ cause i will never see a Cinabun the same way again EVER. Aximili pops into my head as soon as I see it. wonder how many people that happened to.
Also hilarious:"a hole in the lid, so simple yet so effective."
"I guess coffee cup technology hasn't advanced that far on the andalite homeworld yet"
I love it. Not sure if quotes are spot on but you get it.
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Zeno! Not only a great question asker, but the founder of Stoicism.
Oops, wrong Zeno (I guess it is just too common a name among ancient philosophers :)). Your Zeno is Zeno of Citium, he was inspired by reading works of Socrates and studied under Crates of Thebes who was a Cynic which lead him to found Stoicism. But yes, the influence that Stoicism had over the years, especially the strong influence in the Roman Empire, was really fascinating.
The Zeno behind these 'paradoxes' however was Zeno of Elea, he came before Socrates and between him and his teacher Parmenides were very influential on Socrates; in Plato's writings he describes Socrates as a young man in Athens on an occasion when Zeno and Parmenides visited it as a middle-aged and old man respectively, a very cool image of Philosophical History in its infancy.
Anyways, Zeno of Elea posed these particular problems that are flawed or limited by modern standards, but none the less it was the way he posed them that makes him worthwhile as a 'great question asker', because he basically invented reductio ad absurdum as a formal method of argument, as well as as the dialectic method of examining philosophical ideas as opposed to rhetoric; more stuff without which Socrates just wouldn't have been the same.
Also hilarious:"a hole in the lid, so simple yet so effective."
"I guess coffee cup technology hasn't advanced that far on the andalite homeworld yet"
I love it. Not sure if quotes are spot on but you get it.
Indeed, Ax's 'backwards' (by our standards) view on human technology is a lot of fun, his view of cups and books verses computers and the internet for example. I think I laughed the most about his attempts to grapple with humans culturally though, the 'Young and restless' quotes that are already in this thread are hilarious, as well as his attempt to be a juvenile delinquent in #49 The Diversion.
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and lets just say BUNZZ cause i will never see a Cinabun the same way again EVER. Aximili pops into my head as soon as I see it. wonder how many people that happened to.
I didn't even know there was an actaul cinnabon chain, I thought it was made up for the series, when I finally saw one I did a double take and stared at it like an idiot for a minute.
[qoute]"a white ideal reached with methods both black and white is not truly white"[/quote]
I guess I'm including all things that the reached ideal implies, the consequences of all actions taken to achieve it, all things that would have happened if the ideal wasn't achieved and all things that will happen now that the ideal has been achieved. Although I should prolly make a distinction between the ideal (the idea) and the achievable ideal (the reality), since the idea can still be white, and I think it's important to have absolutes in right and wrong as a frame of reference.
he still may be incapable of weighing the complexities of a large situation with so many different aspects and therefore endless options that all must be weighed against each other
I would say that that's applicable to really everything. Including sticking to only white methods since actual consequences of actions can't really be determined until after they occur, a lot of unintended effects will always occur. It goes into another of my favorite quotes from the series that I can't believe noone posted
"Maybe yes, maybe no, but things are connected in millions of ways. They say a single butterfly, beating its wings in China, can start a tornado in America"
"yes, but how does the butterfly know when to beat its wings?"
"It doesn't, I guess it beats its wings the best it can, and hopes it will all work out."
I would also put forward that a person can't really choose to do nothing. By choosing to do nothing a person is really choosing to allow whatever is going on to continue. If what is going on isn't white, call it a, then the by not being willing to pursue a whiter goal b, because it involves less than ideal methods, then that person is really choosing a. So a person doesn't really have the option to only stick to white, because when he refuses to do something to stop the black that's going on, because the methods are not purely white, then he's really choosing to allow the black to continue.
As far as the paradox goes, I'll state the problem how we stated it (it matters later) "That to get from point A to B a person must first reach 1/2L, then he must reach 3/4L, then 7/8L and so on"
Ok, now the only math I had in the last 4 years was algebra in a gen phys class and a few stats classes and I remember precisely zilch from my calculus class, but I think that the math only showed it was possible, not how it was possible, or at least not the why.
Furthermore, his other assumption, that a given length can be infinitely divided, may in fact be false itself.
This was actually one of the solutions we came up with, that space is "digital" not "analog"
another solution that we came up with is if we view time as being a dimension exactly like xyz dimensions, then it's possible that no motion is really taking place, we're just perceiving different parts of a static object, or rather a static universe.
and finally, the solution that we eventually agreed upon, that if one wanted to travel from A to B, he would really try to go to point C which is precisely twice as far away from point A as point B is, so when he reaches the halfway point he'd arrive at his destination.
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and lets just say BUNZZ cause i will never see a Cinabun the same way again EVER. Aximili pops into my head as soon as I see it. wonder how many people that happened to.
I didn't even know there was an actaul cinnabon chain, I thought it was made up for the series, when I finally saw one I did a double take and stared at it like an idiot for a minute.
Sad day, you missed out for some time. Where do you live that Cinnabons aren't commonplace? With a name like yours, I expect you to get out and make yourself an expert on all delicious baked goods :).
he still may be incapable of weighing the complexities of a large situation with so many different aspects and therefore endless options that all must be weighed against each other
I would say that that's applicable to really everything. Including sticking to only white methods since actual consequences of actions can't really be determined until after they occur, a lot of unintended effects will always occur. It goes into another of my favorite quotes from the series that I can't believe noone posted
"Maybe yes, maybe no, but things are connected in millions of ways. They say a single butterfly, beating its wings in China, can start a tornado in America"
"yes, but how does the butterfly know when to beat its wings?"
"It doesn't, I guess it beats its wings the best it can, and hopes it will all work out."
I agree undesired consequences can result in purely good actions; but only in conjunction with the imperfections of others and an imperfect (black and white both) world; but the difference is that a person operating in Simple Black and White is still justified in their 'white' actions even if actions and circumstances outside of their control brought about ill effects as a consequence, but person operating in Shades of Gray is only justified in using black methods if they can achieve whiter results; in possibly failing to do so or bringing about blacker unintended consequences their actions are no longer justified.
I would also put forward that a person can't really choose to do nothing. By choosing to do nothing a person is really choosing to allow whatever is going on to continue. If what is going on isn't white, call it a, then the by not being willing to pursue a whiter goal b, because it involves less than ideal methods, then that person is really choosing a. So a person doesn't really have the option to only stick to white, because when he refuses to do something to stop the black that's going on, because the methods are not purely white, then he's really choosing to allow the black to continue.
I totally agree that choosing to do nothing is a decision in and of itself, as Edmond Burke put it "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing," But it is false to presume that Simple Black and White ever allows choosing to do nothing. Again, I concede that some goals may not be reachable by someone refusing to use methods outside his moral principles, there is always moral actions one can take to oppose a wrong and/or pursue a just cause. Again, I contest your assertion that ideas in general cannot be achieved without both white and black actions, such a thought is not only overly pessimistic but underrates the effectiveness of purely moral actions with respect to causality;, I again assert that plenty of great ideals can be reached by purely moral methods so there is never a need to simply standby and do nothing, such a choice is never because there is no moral action to take but is a result of unenlightened cognitive dissonance (I'm thinking of Cassie here) and cowardice.
As far as the paradox goes, I'll state the problem how we stated it (it matters later) "That to get from point A to B a person must first reach 1/2L, then he must reach 3/4L, then 7/8L and so on"
Ok, now the only math I had in the last 4 years was algebra in a gen phys class and a few stats classes and I remember precisely zilch from my calculus class, but I think that the math only showed it was possible, not how it was possible, or at least not the why.
Well, you state the general idea of the problem well, that in order to reach a one point starting from another you have to pass through an infinite number of sub-points; but again there is no basis (other than Zero maintaining it) of assuming that passing through an infinite number of sub-points is impossible. Calculus doesn't just show that is possible, but is based off of proofs that do show that is is possible including both how and why, it in itself is an example; every time you find the area under a curve using calculus, what you are doing mathematically is taking a shape of indeterminate area and dividing it into an infinite number of rectangles of infinitely thin width and summing their areas: summing an infinite number of infinitely small things and reaching a finite result as Zeno assumed for no reason was impossible. Again, I am not considering him foolish for not having modern knowledge to draw on, but even without modern knowledge his application of reason was poor in this case, he did nothing to support his teacher's beliefs by assuming something without reason and then stating its consequences are proof that everything we have ever observed is false.
And of course, along with the assumption that "a person cannot pass through an infinite number of sub-points" being an assumption without base, so is the assumption that space is infinitely divisible, as I discussed before and as you expressed your and your friend's thoughts it is possible that
space is "digital" not "analog"
So either one of these two assumptions being false is sufficient to solve this so called paradox.
However, within the parameters of his assumptions your and your friend's conclusion do not address the problem posed. Viewing time as a fourth dimension with each instant being a static universe in series with distinct different static universes is useful to view in other thought experiments but doesn't address Zeno's problem of how from one instant in time to another an object is in one position and in the next it is in another, having passed in an instant between an infinite number of positions; this view also introduces the problem posed in Zeno's Arrow paradox: if an object is in one position in a given instant and is not moving in that instant, then it cannot reach another position in the next (a problem that isn't difficult to solve in and of itself by calling to question its own baseless assumptions, but still bringing this problem into play does nothing to solve the problem of the dichotomy paradox).
Nor does 'A to B by trying to reach C' work as a solution within the parameters of the problem, or work as an understanding of the problem that has been posed. For one thing, it doesn't describe reality as we know it because one doesn't set out to walk ten feet by trying to walk twenty then fail to walk twenty and go 'yay, I'm now ten feet further, I tricked you into serving my will reality', they simply try to walk ten feet and do so. Nor does the solution actually show an understanding of the problem and address it because it still involves passing through an infinite number of sub-points.
So those two ideas could possibly describe the way a universe functions (though 'A-to-B-via-C' would be describing a theoretical universe that isn't ours) after the dichotomy paradox is solved, but does not solve it itself; the way to do so is with the solutions that deny the baseless assumptions because it is only them that bring about impossible conclusions.
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Actually my name's a reference to a character in rvb. I actually make a lot of references that noone ever gets but me.
I agree undesired consequences can result in purely good actions; but only in conjunction with the imperfections of others and an imperfect (black and white both) world
I'm not so sure, everything is so interconnected that it's impossible to predict everything that can happen from any action, no matter what the circumstances. You can only say what is most likely and sometimes not even that.
the difference is that a person operating in Simple Black and White is still justified in their 'white' actions even if actions and circumstances outside of their control brought about ill effects as a consequence, but person operating in Shades of Gray is only justified in using black methods if they can achieve whiter results
Why is that? It seems like both people have good intentions, and that both people had unintentional negative consequences. Intentions and results are the same.
there is always moral actions one can take to oppose a wrong and/or pursue a just cause.
there are, but if these actions are knowingly unable to stop a wrong cause or bring about a just one, then it's still a choice between allowing it to continue or taking black actions to bring about the change.
oh, and I mistakenly gave the impression that I think there are no issues that can be purely black and white and achieved with only black and white means, and I did allow it to continue for a bit ::) sorry about that. But I'm not really concerned about those issues for the purposes of this conversation. Oh, and I do have an important rule just for future reference: Every rule has an exception, including this one.
every time you find the area under a curve using calculus, what you are doing mathematically is taking a shape of indeterminate area and dividing it into an infinite number of rectangles of infinitely thin width and summing their areas:
ok, I'm not getting it, this seems to say that it is possible, and describes what happens when you perform it, but not how it's possible
However, within the parameters of his assumptions your and your friend's conclusion do not address the problem posed. Viewing time as a fourth dimension with each instant being a static universe in series with distinct different static universes is useful to view in other thought experiments but doesn't address Zeno's problem of how from one instant in time to another an object is in one position and in the next it is in another, having passed in an instant between an infinite number of positions; this view also introduces the problem posed in Zeno's Arrow paradox: if an object is in one position in a given instant and is not moving in that instant, then it cannot reach another position in the next (a problem that isn't difficult to solve in and of itself by calling to question its own baseless assumptions, but still bringing this problem into play does nothing to solve the problem of the dichotomy paradox).
I'm not sure if I'm not understanding what you're saying or if you're not understanding what I'm saying. When I say that if we view time as being exactly like xyz dimensions, it opens up the possibility that the entire universe exists in both time and space and is unchanging, and only our perspective of it is changing since we only perceive in 3 dimensions. Take for instance a 2d universe, in which we can only perceive 1d. We see a dot, and this dot moves back and forth. Then say we suddenly gain the ability to perceive 2d, and we see that the dot is really a line that has an S curve. In reality the line never changed, only our perception of it changed through the 2nd dimension.
Nor does 'A to B by trying to reach C' work as a solution within the parameters of the problem
we were joking, and we needed a way to end the conversation.
BTW I love how in between our posts are all these on topic posts that completely ignore us.
Ok this quote isn't from the books, but I saw it in someone's sig awhile back (I can't remember who's) and I like it enough to stick it here
This isn't Goosebumps dumbass kid, start from the beginning
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BTW I love how in between our posts are all these on topic posts that completely ignore us.
Ok this quote isn't from the books, but I saw it in someone's sig awhile back (I can't remember who's) and I like it enough to stick it here
This isn't Goosebumps dumbass kid, start from the beginning
lol, yup. as they should; we're the ones who are off topic after all :). I think that part of the reason it is OK for us to go on with such an in-depth conversation that is off topic is that this thread's topic doesn't really involve an on-going conversation, just everyone sharing individual quotes. I love the quote too, I know the majority of the books were made to be readable on an individual basis, but if I ever catch anyone complaining that they don't get what's going on (why can Tobias turn into a human again?) I'd like to be ready to throw that quote at them :).
everything is so interconnected that it's impossible to predict everything that can happen from any action, no matter what the circumstances
Right, as I already concurred, undesired consequences can result from purely good actions, but this is only only in conjunction with other imperfections in the world around it, not a direct result of the good action in and of itself (ideally, there would be nothing to cause something good to go bad). In any case, the point that this is getting at is that a good action is justified in and of itself, it doesn't need to result in a better accomplishment to be justified retroactively, a person operating in Simple Black and White doesn't depend on circumstances outside of their control to justify their actions.
Why is that? It seems like both people have good intentions, and that both people had unintentional negative consequences. Intentions and results are the same.
No they are not, to take a page out of Master Yoda's book, "Do, or do not. There is no try." In fact, the point you were making is that good intentions can lead to bad results, the two are not the same. In answer to your question, why:a person operating in Simple Black and White is still justified in their 'white' actions even if actions and circumstances outside of their control brought about ill effects as a consequence, but person operating in Shades of Gray is only justified in using black methods if they can achieve whiter results
It is because a 'white' action is one that is inherently good, taking that action is justified in and of itself because it's acceptability is self-evident; it does not need a justifier. Even if a negative consequence occurs, the 'white' action is still justified because it does not depend on the results to be justified. On the other hand, a 'black' action requires a 'whiter' result as justification, it is not justified in and of itself; so if it has undesired consequences the action is no longer justified.
To put it in simple terms:
P and Y are two white outcomes, Q is the justification of a black action; X is a white action that is inherently justified:
P is the justifier for Q
Therefore, whether Y or Not Y, X; but if P then Q, if Not P then Not Q.
The problem is that action Q has is that it depends on P but since you cannot determine whether P will successfully come about then you cannot determine that Q is true until after the fact, while X is independent of Y so it doesn't even if Y is unsuccessful X is still justified.
With your 'time dimension' answer, I was misunderstanding what you were saying before; it makes sense now. In essence, you are agreeing with Parmenides that the universe is all One whole, with different xyz properties throughout its 't' (time) dimension, thus all motion is an illusion created by our limited perspective; which is the idea Zeno was trying to support.
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So... the ends justify the means?
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Zeno! Not only a great question asker, but the founder of Stoicism.
Oops, wrong Zeno (I guess it is just too common a name among ancient philosophers :)). Your Zeno is Zeno of Citium, he was inspired by reading works of Socrates and studied under Crates of Thebes who was a Cynic which lead him to found Stoicism. But yes, the influence that Stoicism had over the years, especially the strong influence in the Roman Empire, was really fascinating.
The Zeno behind these 'paradoxes' however was Zeno of Elea, he came before Socrates and between him and his teacher Parmenides were very influential on Socrates; in Plato's writings he describes Socrates as a young man in Athens on an occasion when Zeno and Parmenides visited it as a middle-aged and old man respectively, a very cool image of Philosophical History in its infancy.
Anyways, Zeno of Elea posed these particular problems that are flawed or limited by modern standards, but none the less it was the way he posed them that makes him worthwhile as a 'great question asker', because he basically invented reductio ad absurdum as a formal method of argument, as well as as the dialectic method of examining philosophical ideas as opposed to rhetoric; more stuff without which Socrates just wouldn't have been the same.
Also hilarious:"a hole in the lid, so simple yet so effective."
"I guess coffee cup technology hasn't advanced that far on the andalite homeworld yet"
I love it. Not sure if quotes are spot on but you get it.
Indeed, Ax's 'backwards' (by our standards) view on human technology is a lot of fun, his view of cups and books verses computers and the internet for example. I think I laughed the most about his attempts to grapple with humans culturally though, the 'Young and restless' quotes that are already in this thread are hilarious, as well as his attempt to be a juvenile delinquent in #49 The Diversion.
Okay, thanks for the clear-up.
I personally am a fan of Diogenes, and I was a cynic until I started reading Atlas Shrugged. Now I'm just nuts.
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So... the ends justify the means?
as i recall, America dropped two atomic bombs on japan. the other option was to sent over a thousand military troops into it where they estimated that more than half of those would die.
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My favorite quote is also my avatar.
I also like Ax's quote about being a juvenile delinquent, Jake's spew on how did he save if he spent (shopping with Rachel for his mom's gift), and a lot of those quotes that were really just in there for my entertainment XD
Also, Ax's "I wish to defect. I would like to become a Controller. Do I have to pay for membership? Is there a fee?" Or something along those lines from the one where they all end up on the Leeran home planet.
Basically, I like to keep my favorite quotes light.
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So... the ends justify the means?
as i recall, America dropped two atomic bombs on japan. the other option was to sent over a thousand military troops into it where they estimated that more than half of those would die.
ok, I get not reading the previous posts on this (if I just wondered up to it I wouldn't want to read those monstrosities) but rather than reiterate everything we've been talking about, I'm just going to say read through what we've already posted.
"Resists us and we'll sneeze in your general direction"
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"Next Mission, guys only"
I think Tobias said it, when Cassie and Rachel were drooling over JJM. Might have been marco, I'm sure someone will tell me eventually.
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So... the ends justify the means?
No, in taking the position of 'Simple Black and White' the argument that I have built up establishes that the ends do not justify the means; that attempting to justify the means based on the end rather than using means that are themselves justified leaves means that don't end up justified.
"Next Mission, guys only"
I think Tobias said it, when Cassie and Rachel were drooling over JJM. Might have been marco, I'm sure someone will tell me eventually.
Right idea, but it was the opposite situation. The guys were nerding-out over Star Trek ideas in #35, The Proposal, and Rachel said "Next Mission: Girls Only." The dialog was kinda like you remembered it in #12, The Reaction though, but I think it only went as far as Rachel and Cassie exchanging those drooling lines ('It looks like we'll have to do our duty and investigate this guy' 'I guess that means we're going to have to meet him' 'And get close' 'Really close') and the guys commenting about how they were going to be sick (Yup, you're right, there's nerds like me who remember enough context to know exactly which book it has to be in and find it in no time :)).
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"We're still the same, right?"
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16
"Is that a bear?"
"Yeah"
"Is it mopping the floor?"
"Uh-huh."
"Have we gone nuts?"
"I'm not nuts. It's the bear who's nuts. That's carpeted up there."
:D
When I read this the first time I couldn't help laughing. Luckily I was alone in my room. ;D I don't laugh easily from reading, so that's a rare. In fact, that's the only scene in the entire series that could make me laugh. :D
Also, this made me smile:
<The salads are supposed to be served in ten of our minutes,> Jake went on. <l mean, ten minutes. Are you in place?>
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and lets just say BUNZZ cause i will never see a Cinabun the same way again EVER. Aximili pops into my head as soon as I see it. wonder how many people that happened to.
I didn't even know there was an actaul cinnabon chain, I thought it was made up for the series, when I finally saw one I did a double take and stared at it like an idiot for a minute.
I thought it was made up too. And one day my Local mall opens a Cinabun I was all "OMG no wai CINNABUN" I swear I almost ran around yelling BUNZZZZ just like Ax.
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16
"Is that a bear?"
"Yeah"
"Is it mopping the floor?"
"Uh-huh."
"Have we gone nuts?"
"I'm not nuts. It's the bear who's nuts. That's carpeted up there."
:D
When I read this the first time I couldn't help laughing. Luckily I was alone in my room. ;D I don't laugh easily from reading, so that's a rare. In fact, that's the only scene in the entire series that could make me laugh. :D
Also, this made me smile:
<The salads are supposed to be served in ten of our minutes,> Jake went on. <l mean, ten minutes. Are you in place?>
lol Yeah, that ones are totally awesome ^^ I hope they'll be chosen for the OneVolumeOneRAFian project ^^
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... and a Z-space theorist named Nu.
I don't know why, but that line really stuck with me. :(
Oh, also,
We have X of your minutes remaining.
They're everyone's minutes, Ax.
D: lol Marco
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I use to think Papa Johns was a made-up pizza restaurant in the books until we finally got one in my area.
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i'm particularly fond of, in the andalite chronicles, where Elfangor, after trapping himself in Human morph to be with lauren, talks about his human friends bill and Steve. I didn't catch on the first time I read it about 10 years ago, but now I realize he's talking about Bill Gates and Steve Jobs, founders of Microsoft and Apple, respectively. Something that made me chuckle on this read-through, but was a bit over my head at age 12.
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i'm particularly fond of, in the andalite chronicles, where Elfangor, after trapping himself in Human morph to be with lauren, talks about his human friends bill and Steve. I didn't catch on the first time I read it about 10 years ago, but now I realize he's talking about Bill Gates and Steve Jobs, founders of Microsoft and Apple, respectively. Something that made me chuckle on this read-through, but was a bit over my head at age 12.
Oh, I didn't even know... ^^'
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I just read andalite chronicles yesterday for the first time, and that Bill and Steve cracked me up. He even mentioned that he had to use simple terms like Window to make Bill understand :D
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"I bet I Know",Marco said grinning sardonically which is the only way he know how to grin. "Jake checked in but he couldn't check out".
"Rachel,be Rachel. Not her."
"Yo Jake man dude what's Up?"
"Since when did you start saying Yo?".
"I was thinking of yelling "Hey handsome!" but i thought you'd prefer yo".
"Uh-huh"
"So yo-yo what's up?"
"Hey great!Rachel eating popcorn and Tobias eatind roadkill".
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yeah... but you're saying that if you take a black action and the ends turn out good, then it's ok, if it turns out bad it's not.
Of course you also said that if you take a white action and the outcome is bad it's still ok. you're kinda changing the rules on a case by case basis.
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yeah... but you're saying that if you take a black action and the ends turn out good, then it's ok, if it turns out bad it's not.
Of course you also said that if you take a white action and the outcome is bad it's still ok. you're kinda changing the rules on a case by case basis.
I'm not changing any 'rules', do we need to discuss exactly what the term 'justificiation' means and what a justifier is? Because that is the only thing I can see as being a concept that might be hanging you up in understanding what I'm saying and responding to it.
In any case, if it seems to you that I was trying to say that 'the ends justify the means' then I'd really ask you to reread my post without skimming it because if you got that you must have picked up individual hypothetical statements without seeing the central points they were trying to address.
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P and Y are two white outcomes, Q is the justification of a black action; X is a white action that is inherently justified:
P is the justifier for Q
Therefore, whether Y or Not Y, X; but if P then Q, if Not P then Not Q.
If P then Q, if the ends are good then the black action was justified
if Not P then Not Q, if the ends are bad then the black action was not justified
sounds like your saying the ends justify the means there, but if you're not then I am missing what you're saying in the above.
whether y or not y, x, regardless of the actual outcome the white action is justified
Here it sounds like your saying the ends don't matter at all in this case, even if the white action actually causes more harm than good. So it sounds like your changing the rules.
It is because a 'white' action is one that is inherently good, taking that action is justified in and of itself because it's acceptability is self-evident; it does not need a justifier. Even if a negative consequence occurs, the 'white' action is still justified because it does not depend on the results to be justified. On the other hand, a 'black' action requires a 'whiter' result as justification, it is not justified in and of itself; so if it has undesired consequences the action is no longer justified.
So like I said, in one case it sounds like you're saying the ends are what's important, and in the other it sounds like you're saying that you're saying that the ends don't matter at all.
The problem is that action Q has is that it depends on P but since you cannot determine whether P will successfully come about then you cannot determine that Q is true until after the fact, while X is independent of Y so it doesn't even if Y is unsuccessful X is still justified.
more of the same....
Right, as I already concurred, undesired consequences can result from purely good actions, but this is only only in conjunction with other imperfections in the world around it, not a direct result of the good action in and of itself (ideally, there would be nothing to cause something good to go bad). In any case, the point that this is getting at is that a good action is justified in and of itself, it doesn't need to result in a better accomplishment to be justified retroactively, a person operating in Simple Black and White doesn't depend on circumstances outside of their control to justify their actions.
No they are not, to take a page out of Master Yoda's book, "Do, or do not. There is no try."
Do or do not says that only what you actually accomplish is important: the ends, there is no try says that intentions don't matter at all
Right, as I already concurred, undesired consequences can result from purely good actions, but this is only only in conjunction with other imperfections in the world around it, not a direct result of the good action in and of itself (ideally, there would be nothing to cause something good to go bad). In any case, the point that this is getting at is that a good action is justified in and of itself, it doesn't need to result in a better accomplishment to be justified retroactively, a person operating in Simple Black and White doesn't depend on circumstances outside of their control to justify their actions.
Now it sounds like you're saying the ends don't matter at all for a white action, so it again sounds like you're changing the rules
In any case, if it seems to you that I was trying to say that 'the ends justify the means' then I'd really ask you to reread my post without skimming it
So in response to this I would say that I covered everything relevant to this discussion that was in your post not picking out a single statement after skimming it
It sounds like your saying that the ends matter for black actions, but not for whiteones and that intentions matter for white actions, but not black ones. So it sounds very much like ou're changing the rules.
Post Merged: August 06, 2010, 01:09:10 AM
"I just gave him one-two-three-four-five-six-seven-eight"
"Eight? You gave him eight numbers? Remind me not to ever be a spy with you."
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Donut, Kotetsu, sorry but you seem very off-topic for a while...
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"Do you hate trash cans? Is that your problem? Do you just HATE TRASH CANS?!!"
and
"It's OAT-freaking-MEAL!"
as well as
"Um . . . Jake? It's a tiger."
Marco said all those,right?
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Jake said the first one, Marco said the latter two.
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i'm particularly fond of, in the andalite chronicles, where Elfangor, after trapping himself in Human morph to be with lauren, talks about his human friends bill and Steve. I didn't catch on the first time I read it about 10 years ago, but now I realize he's talking about Bill Gates and Steve Jobs, founders of Microsoft and Apple, respectively. Something that made me chuckle on this read-through, but was a bit over my head at age 12.
i'm reading this on a apple computer
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The one in my sig about the butterfly is my favorite.
There's also a lot of others. I can't remember what book it's from, but I learned a lot of terminology for barfing from Marco:
"... You ever notice how many different ways there are to say 'throwing up'? There's vomiting, of course. Hurling. Tossing your cookies. Puking, a classic. Ralphing. There's cascading. But I prefer the terms that are more real. Like blowing chunks. Spewing your guts. Tangoing with the toilet. That's a good one. Technicolor yawn."
There's a lot of good humor, especially in the earlier books, that went over my head as a kid first reading these books. It's why Animorphs remains such a great series even now.
As for my favorite pairing...
Tobias shrugged his human shoulders. He held up his hands to stare at his own fingers. "It is me," he said, sounding like he doubted it. "My old body. Here."
I ran to him. I don't really know why, I just did. I wanted to touch him. To know he was real.
"Ah!Ah!Ah!" he yelled. He jumped back and suddenly threw his arms up and down. He was flapping, trying to get away. Trying to fly. I had scared him by rushing at him. "Sorry," he whispered, terribly embarrassed. "Sorry."
I put my arms around him and hugged him tightly.
-
I'm not sure where exactly this is or why I've remembered it when I've forgotten so many other things about the books, but (I think it's at the beginning of one of the books) there's this one scene where Marco and Jake are arguing over whether or not a food can taste like a color. Or maybe it just talks about that argument. It's so awesome because, on the one hand, it's completely ridiculous, but if you start thinking about too much you start wonder if you're doing things like changing your sense of taste because of expectation from visual stimuli.
Of course there are some reasons things do taste like colors. We have pretty generic pairings of artificial flavor and color. Also, if you're in need of a particular amino acid, foods of the appropriate color with all sound very appealing to you, even if their taste is pretty dissimilar (i.e. tomatoes and strawberries).
But mostly that argument is awesome!
-
#14! :D Cassie mentions they had the argument.
...*cough* One of my friends and I totally have that argument sometimes.
-
Then you and your friend are also awesome ^_^
Actually, I brought that up with some people I went out with tonight. They weren't very much fun though: everyone just got stuck on the artificial color/flavor thing.... though that did mean we were trying to figure out exactly what "blue raspberry" is supposed to be.
-
Haha, yeah... I've tried bringing it up with people... the last time I tried, I was horrified by how seriously they were taking it. :facepalm: How seriously can you take a question like "What color does cheese taste like?"
-
ax:prince Jake
Jake: don't call me prince
ax:yes prince Jake
how can anyone forget that?
that was the first one i thought of for commenting!oh well,can always do another one
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Haha, yeah... I've tried bringing it up with people... the last time I tried, I was horrified by how seriously they were taking it. :facepalm: How seriously can you take a question like "What color does cheese taste like?"
You know, there'd be a pretty easy way to solve that kind of argument if you knew somebody with the right form of Synesthesia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synesthesia). So, anybody know someone with gustatory -> color synesthesia?
Also, hi Estrid! Welcome to the forum ^_^
-
One that I have never forgotten and never will:
Elfangor in Tobias' andalite dream thing:
"Out of respect for life you have to endure."
-
Ax wasn't in morph. I felt we were vulnerable here, just after dinnertime.
"Are you sure we're safe, Cassie?" I said. She looked up from her math book. I tell you, it was a conspiracy.
"You kidding?" Cassie said. "A PBS documentary on lemurs? A Dome ship could land on the lawn and my parents wouldn't even notice..."
(Book #45)
-
My favorite's gotta' be when Cassie was trapped as a caterpillar and metamorph-osized into a butterfly: <Why does she not morphs back now?> "WHAT?!" <Yes, it should be simple, she still had two of your hourse to remain in morphs before she truly will be trapped.> "GET THAT BUTTERFLY!!!!!"
-
We ran with a hundred nightmares on our heels.
- book one
there's a whole new nightmare
R . L Stine calling Stephen King with a message from Anne Rice.
The milk carton had no immediate response. Maybe it wanted to think that over.
- Marco
I take it back. I apologize. I grovel. I beg.
-Tom
A fool is strong so that others will see. A wise person is strong for himself.
-
R . L Stine calling Stephen King with a message from Anne Rice.
Where did this one come from? I don't remember it, but it definitely made me laugh ;D
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That's in one of the later books. Marco says it... and I'm totally blanking as to which one. I can vaguely picture the scene, but the details aren't coming. Maybe I'll find it when I have access to my books again...
-
Where did this one come from? I don't remember it, but it definitely made me laugh ;D
The thirties I think?
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I think it's from #34, when the Arn guy calls upon Aldrea's ixcila.
-
I think it's from #34, when the Arn guy calls upon Aldrea's ixcila.
Yeah you're right!!
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*nods and high fives* Good call, Liz ^_^
-
"We don't have to go through with that," Rachel said.
<Yes, we do,> I said. <More than ever, I understand that. See . . . there are human beings all
over, trapped in bodies controlled by Yeerks. Trapped. Unable to escape. Rachel, I know how
they feel. Maybe I can't escape. Maybe I am trapped forever. But if we can free some of those
others. Maybe . . . I don't know. Maybe that's what I need to do to stay human.>
"Shouldn't be any big problem," Jake said confidently.
"Uh-huh," Cassie said dryly. "And how many times have you gone fishing?"
"Counting this time? Once." He laughed.
(Book #3)
-
The ending sentence of book 54.
-
The ending sentence of book 54.
:dull: ...read my signature...
-
I cried so hard...
-
I cried so hard...
I know....*grumbles* After reading it, I was like, "What?" Just that. I really didn't like it...
-
Cassie: Aaaaaaaahhhhh!
Jake: Look out! Lookoutlookoutlooko utlookout!
Marco: Would you both shut up? I'm trying to drive here!
Jake: Car! Car! Car!
Marco: (yanks wheel left)
Driver: (speeds by, blares horn, and flips Marco off)
Marco: That's rude. And totally uncalled for.
BAM!
Cassie: Aaaaaaaahhhhhh!
Marco: Oh, it's just a trash can. Chill out.
BAM! BAM! BAM!
Marco: Okay, so it's four trash cans.
Jake: Get off the sidewalk, you lunatic!
Marco: (yanks wheel right, bumps the sidewalk, grazes a parked car)
BAM! BAM! BAM!
Jake: Do you hate trash cans? Is that your problem? Do you just HATE TRASH CANS?!!
Marco: I can't drive with you screaming in my ear.
Jake: You can't drive at all!
Post Merged: October 02, 2010, 12:30:19 PM
Marco: Okay, look, you wait right there by that table. Don't go anywhere. If my dad comes in and talks to you, just say 'yes' and 'no.' Got it? Yes and no answers only. I'll run up to my room. I'm gonna call one of the others to meet us at the bookstore. You're already driving me nuts.
Ax: (fiddles with Marco's father's computer, thinking it's a game) (to self) I win.
Peter: Hello?
Ax: (turns around, remembering what Marco said) No.
Peter: I'm Marco's dad. Are you a friend of his?
Ax: Yes.
Peter: What's your name?
Ax: No.
Peter: Your name is 'No'?
Ax: Yes.
Peter: That's an unusual name isn't it?
Ax: No.
Peter: It's not?
Ax: Yes.
Peter: Yes, it's not an unusual name?
Ax: No.
Peter: Now I'm totally confused.
Ax: Yes.
Peter: (stares, then to Marco) Hey, Marco? Marco? Would you... um... your friend is here. Your friend 'No' is here.
Ax: No.
Peter: Yes, that's what I said.
Marco: (running down the stairs) Whoa! Um, Dad! You met my friend?
Peter: No?
Marco: What?
Peter: (shakes head) I must be getting old. I don't understand you kids.
Ax: Yes.
-
Oh dear. I thought I had some good ones, but now I think it's mostly the descriptions that stayed with me over the years, rather than specific quotations.
Of course, some silly quips have survived within in-jokes:
"Don't [verb] me! I'm just a birdie!"
"I am from Canada. I am Canadese."
And I never pronounce "delirious" without a few extra "de-"s, now.
...And I had to dig out #12, "The Reaction", in order to do justice to Cassie's brilliant reply:
"Yeah, I'm glad [the crocodile] didn't get me," Cassie said. "I'm getting out of here. I have to find my dad. He's here somewhere. It would help if someone would like, you know, get things organized."
Cassie pushed past the man. I turned my face away, not wanting to surprise her.
"Andalite!" the man snapped.
My heart stopped. He was testing Cassie. Waiting to see if she would react. If she would recognize the word. If Cassie hesitated or stopped he would know.
He would know.
I shouldn't even have worried.
When he rapped out the word "Andalite!" she kept walking and without hesitation said, "Yeah, a light would be helpful, too."
-
Oh dear. I thought I had some good ones, but now I think it's mostly the descriptions that stayed with me over the years, rather than specific quotations.
Of course, some silly quips have survived within in-jokes:
"Don't [verb] me! I'm just a birdie!"
"I am from Canada. I am Canadese."
And I never pronounce "delirious" without a few extra "de-"s, now.
...And I had to dig out #12, "The Reaction", in order to do justice to Cassie's brilliant reply:
"Yeah, I'm glad [the crocodile] didn't get me," Cassie said. "I'm getting out of here. I have to find my dad. He's here somewhere. It would help if someone would like, you know, get things organized."
Cassie pushed past the man. I turned my face away, not wanting to surprise her.
"Andalite!" the man snapped.
My heart stopped. He was testing Cassie. Waiting to see if she would react. If she would recognize the word. If Cassie hesitated or stopped he would know.
He would know.
I shouldn't even have worried.
When he rapped out the word "Andalite!" she kept walking and without hesitation said, "Yeah, a light would be helpful, too."
I love that last quote a lot. ;D
-
<Maybe I was wrong. Maybe different races can be stronger together. Go with your humans and prove me wrong.>
-book #18 The Decision
That's deep
Post Merged: October 26, 2010, 01:14:18 AM
Book 21, The Threat
<This is Aximili,> he said, in as loud a thought-speak as he could
manage. <We have an eagle leaving the barn.>
Tobias's thought-speak came from somewhat closer. <l see him. Jake? I
hope you hear me. Because we have a traitor.>
Dang...
-
This is from a fanfic, Angels Rush In (http://www.fanfiction.net/s/6145340/1/Angels_Rush_In), but I still think it's worth posting here.
Earth lost many battles against the Yeerk army before it won the war, but Marco observed privately that the Animorphs themselves lost the fight personally the day that Rachel died.
Hey! That's mine! So flattered and glad you like it! Someone told me in a review that this post was on here and I had to come find it for myself. Thank you so much for the recc here :D
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This is from a fanfic, Angels Rush In (http://www.fanfiction.net/s/6145340/1/Angels_Rush_In), but I still think it's worth posting here.
Earth lost many battles against the Yeerk army before it won the war, but Marco observed privately that the Animorphs themselves lost the fight personally the day that Rachel died.
Hey! That's mine! So flattered and glad you like it! Someone told me in a review that this post was on here and I had to come find it for myself. Thank you so much for the recc here :D
Thank you for the great fanfic! The Marco/Rachel relationship was incredibly complex, but you did a wonderful job of capturing it. From their banter to their occasional real fights to their inability to understand each other's battling styles, you did a superb job of summing up their interactions throughout - and beyond - the series. I can totally see Marco going skydiving in honor of Rachel, maybe feeling and riding the adrenaline rush the way she always did during a battle.
This is easily one of my favorite fanfics, and probably always will be. :)
-
I know this is from a fanfiction (http://www.animorphsforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=2189.msg151031#msg151031), but still...
<She's my mother.> I said, the note of surprise at those words still evident. <My mom. She's my mom. Mother, my mom, my... mother.> I kept repeating it, as thought doing so would make it any clearer.
Marco sat down abruptly. It looked funny, a gorilla just plopping down like that. He blinked, then rubbed a large hairy hand over his rear. <I've gotta stop doing that every time I see a mother. Dude, Tobias, no offense, but your mom is hot. And kind of familiar somehow.>
-
MM3, Rachel:
<They killed Jake,> I snapped. <And they're trying to get Washington. They could
kill Marco. They die! Do you hear me, Andalite? They killed your prince. Do your
duty.>
-
<Hope...>
One word so powerful, and the last one spoken by Elfangor before Visser Three murdered him.
-
<Hope...>
One word so powerful, and the last one spoken by Elfangor before Visser Three murdered him.
Tattooed on my ankle and Patty's wrist :)
I'll always remember Erek berating Jake for killing the 17,000 helpless Yeerks as a 'diversion'...
"A what? What did you need? A diversion? You're telling me you needed a diversion so you slaughtered 17,000 helpless, thinking beings?"
Gives me chills.
-
that sentence, in fact that whole scenario always pissed me off for the exact opposite reason. if the yeerks were fighting back in their helpless hosts, and the helpless hosts were killed in battle, then it was ok to kill the yeerk. but to kill the yeerk itself and save the host was bad? wth?
end off topic/sorta on topic rant :P had to say it while it was there. but i know there is a thread i made for that somewhere.
-
Yeah, but the point was, they were SEVENTEEN-THOUSAND helpless prisoners of war. Completely different, and besides, the Animorphs tried not to kill hosts, especially human hosts.
-
"Then she showed me the cake. She lit a candle and I blew it out by
flapping my wing. Neither of us sang "Happy Birthday." But she said it.
"Happy birthday, Tobias." "
The Pretender, #23
-
I like it when Tobias comes in human morph to Rachel's ceremony and Rachel sees him, and he says, "Hi Rachel" in The Change.
-
"Okay, fine, Rachel. You want to do this, fine. I think you're the bravest member of the group. I think in a bad fight I'd rather have you with me than anyone else. But yeah, Rachel, I think there's something pretty dark down inside you. I think you're the only one of us who would be disappointed if all this ended tomorrow. Cassie hates all this, Marco has personal reasons for being in this war, Ax just wants to go home and fight Yeerks with his own people, Tobias . . . who knows what Tobias wants anymore? But you, Rachel, you love it. It's what makes you so brave. It's what makes you so dangerous to the Yeerks." - Jake, #22
For some reason that just really got to me because it's true, and until then Rachel had never thought that. Makes me wonder what she thought when the others remarked upon her being ruthless?
<You know, it's really a shame I can't get to meet that UPN guy,> I said. <I have a great idea for a new Star Trek series. See, it's way in the future and the Federation has been broken up by the Dominion and only three ships are still —> - Marco, #35
This line just made the Niner in me cry with glee.
"What kind of animal morphs are going to be able to deal with Visser Three when he turns into that big monster that ate the Andalite?" - Jake, #1
"Fleas? No one can kill fleas. We'll itch him to death." - Marco, #1
Made me lol.
"To the Yeerk pool! Let's get some flamethrowers!" - Mean Rachel, #32
That line is just so ridiculously exaggerated that you can't help but lol at it.
Humans seemed to exist across too broad a spectrum to even be considered a single species. - Ax, MM #3
Definitely. It's way too true. Unless of course we get into space and find species even more divided than we are!
"Visser Three would trade his Blade ship for your head on a stick." - Rachel, #22
Also made me lol. Just put to mind an image of Visser Three in his quarters with all his torture instruments and carefully adding a pike with Jake's head on it.
"Cold, man. The Marco dude? He was just cold." - #30
Completely true. He would have killed Karen just to preserve their secrets rather than HOLD HER FOR THREE FREAKIN' DAYS. Cold man doesn't even BEGIN to describe him. All those who think Marco should be tried for war crimes?
And to the off topic debate... a link.
[spoiler]
http://library.flawlesslogic.com/massrape.htm
And a quote.
And as they roared into Germany, Russian soldiers unleashed their pent-up fury upon German soldiers and civilians alike, exacting a revenge without limits upon Hitler's people for all that the Nazis had done in Russia. One such town caught up in the maelstrom was Demmin in northeastern Germany where women tried to stave off Russian sexual assaults. Waltraud Reski, a schoolgirl at the time, recalled: "The women were disguised, but you can tell if a woman has a good figure, and they found my mother again and again, and treated her terribly. You can't imagine what it was like for her to be raped ten or twenty times a day. You're hardly human anymore. My mother became an entirely different person for the rest of her life."
[/spoiler]
That is all.
EDIT: Please stay on the topic of quotes from ANIMORPHS. And please put such topics in spoilers
-
(Hey Zakryn, I think that you should put that last comment in spoilers, at the least. We do have some pretty young kids on here....)
Post Merged: November 12, 2010, 12:07:52 AM
It was a dark and stormy night.
Sorry, I've always wanted to write that. But it really was a dark and stormy night.
Rachel, Book #2.... I love that!
-
"Message received, Father." kills me every. single. time. the Elfangor/Loren/Tobias dynamic always fascinated me!
-
Quote
It was a dark and stormy night.
Sorry, I've always wanted to write that. But it really was a dark and stormy night.
Rachel, Book #2.... I love that!
XD I'd nearly forgotten about that! I always loved that bit. :P
-
The monsters in our valley were destroyed that day. Only a very few survived. But that was all right, because we didn't need monsters anymore. We had become them.
I freaking love the Hork-Bajir Chronicles.
-
Pretty much all the sentences in The Beginning. ;) Especially in Cassie's Chapter 6, when she says, "Beautiful Rachel. Poor Tom." No idea why, but I've always remembered that for some reason. And of course, the Ellimist's "You were good. You mattered."
-
i know tons! sorry if i repeated some
"so let me get this straight - we are now making decisions based on Tobias and Cassie's dreams,right?And yet my dreams are totally ignored.The fact that i once dreamed about staying home and watching TV in total safety,that means nothing right?"-Marco
i practically memorized chap 2 in book 12 "my mom is giving us a presentation on endangered animals.A presentation.To us" "why do they even have a python exhibit?All they ever do is lie there.That snake might as well be fake,now leopards sure,they move around,they give you dirty looks,but pythons?" "she thinks she has to be entertaining.It's dangerous when mom tries to be entertaining.See, she'll start talking about Snoop Dog,Boys are men and nice is neat" "Okay, Snoopy Diggy Dog and Boys 2 Men i get,but whats nice is neat?" "NIN, you know nine inch nails?i wanted to get the new CD but i was broke so i told my mom NIN stands for nice is neat""you?No way.That sounds like something Marco came up with" "Okay,that was Marco's idea.He said "what parent can resist a band named Nice Is Neat?" See he wanted the CD to make this thing... anyway it worked" "Cassie,Cassie,Cassie,when you start taking advice from Marco,the end of civilization is very near.Besides,you and nine inch nails?do you even like that band?" "actually, they're a bit depressed and grim for me,although it would be perfect for my mood today
And,of corse "Let's do it!"
-
I know I just posted but I came across this little gem while browsing MM4
Power enough to win? No. Power enough to fight? Ah, yes. Just enough, little Jake, here is just enough power to imprison you in a cage of duty, to make you fight.
-
From The Predator: "I guess it should have been funny. The wolf and the tiger, sharing a
tender moment. But all it did was make me a little jealous. They had
each other."
-
"This is so Magic School Bus. Rachel, have I ever told you that you could definitely be my Ms. Frizzle?"
Marco when the other Animorphs decide to go up his nose to battle the Helmacrons.
Book 42
-
Ax at the end of book 38, The Arrival:
Cassie held my hand, and in the darkness where no one could see, I cried.
He's just a kid, and he just saw the twisted, ugly shade of gray side of his own people. It's just a sentence, but it resonates.
-
Clothing is pliable fabric designed to cover the human body. Sometimes as protection against the cold. But mostly, as I understand it, because humans believe much of their body to be unacceptable. They are right, of course, but they cover all the wrong parts: There is nothing uglier than a human nose. - Book 18
Made me lol.
-
LOL oh how i loved ax :P
-
"Ram the Blade Ship!"
-
I can't remember the name of the Andalite who lost his tail in battle. But he's in the greenhouse at the end of the book and Marco visits him. After Marco gives his speech (Which in and of itself gave me loads more respect for Marco than I all ready had) The andalite responds, <Thank you, Aristh Marco.>
It's the fact that he referred to Marco as an Aristh. Like at least one Andalite other than Ax had learned to respect the fact that the Animorphs were soldiers in the war.
-
Do you know where I could find the quote? I actually wouldn't mind seeing that.
-
I can't remember the title or the book number at the moment. It was a Marco book and he morphs into a bee on the cover. The quote is the very last line.
-
It's #40.
-
That's the exact end of #40, you're right. Here the quote with Marco's speech:
<Well, I don't know about that,> I said. <But, look. I just want you to know — I mean, we just want you to know that if. . . uh, when Gafinilan, you know, dies. That you should look us up. And, well, maybe I can check in on you, too. Play some video games, whatever. Being alone, man, it's not good and . . . well, we could use all the allies we can get.>
Nothing. I shifted on my perch in the big old oak tree where Tobias had sat during our first visit to the house.
Noted a honeybee winging its way toward the greenhouse.
Waited.
Maybe I'd offended the guy somehow. I hadn't meant to but sometimes my mouth gets in the way of sentiment.
The silence was awful.
And then, suddenly, his voice came booming out at me. Strong and energetic and quivering with something that sounded a lot like pride.
<Thank you, Aristh Marco. Perhaps I will do so.>
-
Sounds touching, considering it's Marco.
-
I'm not sure where exactly this is or why I've remembered it when I've forgotten so many other things about the books, but (I think it's at the beginning of one of the books) there's this one scene where Marco and Jake are arguing over whether or not a food can taste like a color. Or maybe it just talks about that argument. It's so awesome because, on the one hand, it's completely ridiculous, but if you start thinking about too much you start wonder if you're doing things like changing your sense of taste because of expectation from visual stimuli.
Of course there are some reasons things do taste like colors. We have pretty generic pairings of artificial flavor and color. Also, if you're in need of a particular amino acid, foods of the appropriate color with all sound very appealing to you, even if their taste is pretty dissimilar (i.e. tomatoes and strawberries).
But mostly that argument is awesome!
me and my friend always have totally random argumets,once we argued over a pencil,about if harry potter is better or animorphs(she is totally against animorphs)
-
I'm not sure where exactly this is or why I've remembered it when I've forgotten so many other things about the books, but (I think it's at the beginning of one of the books) there's this one scene where Marco and Jake are arguing over whether or not a food can taste like a color. Or maybe it just talks about that argument. It's so awesome because, on the one hand, it's completely ridiculous, but if you start thinking about too much you start wonder if you're doing things like changing your sense of taste because of expectation from visual stimuli.
Of course there are some reasons things do taste like colors. We have pretty generic pairings of artificial flavor and color. Also, if you're in need of a particular amino acid, foods of the appropriate color with all sound very appealing to you, even if their taste is pretty dissimilar (i.e. tomatoes and strawberries).
But mostly that argument is awesome!
me and my friend always have totally random argumets,once we argued over a pencil,about if harry potter is better or animorphs(she is totally against animorphs)
So here is my question again: Why is she so much against Animorphs?
-
Darn Anti-Morphite!
-
I'm not sure where exactly this is or why I've remembered it when I've forgotten so many other things about the books, but (I think it's at the beginning of one of the books) there's this one scene where Marco and Jake are arguing over whether or not a food can taste like a color. Or maybe it just talks about that argument. It's so awesome because, on the one hand, it's completely ridiculous, but if you start thinking about too much you start wonder if you're doing things like changing your sense of taste because of expectation from visual stimuli.
Of course there are some reasons things do taste like colors. We have pretty generic pairings of artificial flavor and color. Also, if you're in need of a particular amino acid, foods of the appropriate color with all sound very appealing to you, even if their taste is pretty dissimilar (i.e. tomatoes and strawberries).
But mostly that argument is awesome!
me and my friend always have totally random argumets,once we argued over a pencil,about if harry potter is better or animorphs(she is totally against animorphs)
So here is my question again: Why is she so much against Animorphs?
IDK she said she read 2 pages of the book and got so bored,but it's only 2 pages,you need to read like at least a few chapters and i find the first few chapters of harry potter boring.
-
So here is my question again: Why is she so much against Animorphs?
She doesn't order her Happy Meals with "extra happy" does she?
-
So here is my question again: Why is she so much against Animorphs?
She doesn't order her Happy Meals with "extra happy" does she?
i doubt she even goes to mcdonalds, i'll ask if she goes to mcdonalds
-
the first 2 pages are so captivating tho!
-
just read 2 books this eekend and now these a few sentences are stuck in my head
if only you weren't such a harsh person Rachel...
i was smarter tha any of you...
<...But there were a lot who didn't make it,Mr Carpenter Jake,Richard.Emily and Lewis lost their dad>
-
I'm not sure where exactly this is or why I've remembered it when I've forgotten so many other things about the books, but (I think it's at the beginning of one of the books) there's this one scene where Marco and Jake are arguing over whether or not a food can taste like a color. Or maybe it just talks about that argument. It's so awesome because, on the one hand, it's completely ridiculous, but if you start thinking about too much you start wonder if you're doing things like changing your sense of taste because of expectation from visual stimuli.
Of course there are some reasons things do taste like colors. We have pretty generic pairings of artificial flavor and color. Also, if you're in need of a particular amino acid, foods of the appropriate color with all sound very appealing to you, even if their taste is pretty dissimilar (i.e. tomatoes and strawberries).
But mostly that argument is awesome!
me and my friend always have totally random argumets,once we argued over a pencil,about if harry potter is better or animorphs(she is totally against animorphs)
So here is my question again: Why is she so much against Animorphs?
IDK she said she read 2 pages of the book and got so bored,but it's only 2 pages,you need to read like at least a few chapters and i find the first few chapters of harry potter boring.
lol She can't judge after only 2 pages ^^' Tell her that if she wants to criticize Animorphs, she should read at least one volume. Not less. The best would be even the entire series, but... at least one volume. Before she does that, she can't really judge the story. Try that ;)
-
While we're off-topic, my friend just hates them. But I'll give her this much: she read the first book and started the second. She thinks they're terrible.
-
"Heeeelp meeee! Heeelp me!!!!"
Post Merged: December 14, 2010, 03:55:30 AM
"What is this, Planet of the Salesmen?" Marco demanded. "Back off! All
of you, back off!"
"Man, I thought there were a lot of salespeople at Nordstrom's, but this
is nuts. I'll take care of this. I know how to get rid of pushy
salespeople." Rachel stepped out front, hands on her
hips. "We're just here to use the bathroom. Can you tell me where the
ladies' room is?"
The Iskoort stared, goggle-eyed. Several of them wandered away. The
others continued staring at us, waiting to see if we'd loosen up and do
some business.
I looked at Cassie and we both sighed at the same time.
Cassie jumped into my arms and I wrapped her up tight and before I knew
it I was kissing her on her lips and she was kissing me back.
"It's about time," Rachel grumbled.
-
I'm not sure where exactly this is or why I've remembered it when I've forgotten so many other things about the books, but (I think it's at the beginning of one of the books) there's this one scene where Marco and Jake are arguing over whether or not a food can taste like a color. Or maybe it just talks about that argument. It's so awesome because, on the one hand, it's completely ridiculous, but if you start thinking about too much you start wonder if you're doing things like changing your sense of taste because of expectation from visual stimuli.
Of course there are some reasons things do taste like colors. We have pretty generic pairings of artificial flavor and color. Also, if you're in need of a particular amino acid, foods of the appropriate color with all sound very appealing to you, even if their taste is pretty dissimilar (i.e. tomatoes and strawberries).
But mostly that argument is awesome!
me and my friend always have totally random argumets,once we argued over a pencil,about if harry potter is better or animorphs(she is totally against animorphs)
So here is my question again: Why is she so much against Animorphs?
IDK she said she read 2 pages of the book and got so bored,but it's only 2 pages,you need to read like at least a few chapters and i find the first few chapters of harry potter boring.
lol She can't judge after only 2 pages ^^' Tell her that if she wants to criticize Animorphs, she should read at least one volume. Not less. The best would be even the entire series, but... at least one volume. Before she does that, she can't really judge the story. Try that ;)
i tried
using the madeup name for my friends
nicky:...but it's boring,i fell asleep reading it
me:you barly read any,you can't like a book if you only read 2 pages,i find the first few chapters of harry potter boring
nicky:harry potter is the best
(milinda joins)milinda:hey guys
me:milinda,nicky hates animorph and she only read like 2 pages
milinda:nicky,that is getting reallly mean
nicky:but it's boring
me:it's not
nicky:it is
me:it's not
...
also...
(talking about what we belive in)
me:it will be cool if the ellimist is real
nicky:what's an ellimist?
me:...well...this creature from animorphs that is almost all powerful,and fights with the crayack which is the oppsite version...
nicky:then i like it,the crayack wipes out the animorphs
luckily,i convinced nicky's best friend to read animorphs,but she's finishing the prophet of yonwood and will read the invasion after.
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Defintly the trash cans bit (lol) and that bit in Time of the Dino's when the T-Rex dies and they make shoes out of it :P oh AND that bit where they can't morph the dinos anymore when they get back.
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@Yunyun: I see ^^' I also have hard time to make other people try things I like (TVshows, books...) They usually don't want to give a try.
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"Ah. When will I receive ree-seeeve the cookies-zuh? They are delicious, mmm-mmm."
"Well, to tell you the truth, the nurses don't want you around at cookie time. You made quite a scene yesterday."
This was disturbing news. "No cookies?"
He shook his head back and forth and looked at me with his two small eyes located on the front of his face. "No cookies."
"Then I must go elsewhere in search of cookies," I said. "The cookies formed by two thin, round, black discs with a layer of adhesive white substance between them are the finest accomplishment of your species!"
"My species?"
I had made a mistake. I had allowed my agitation over the cookies to cause me to be careless. This was not the time to reveal myself. Humans use their mouths for eating — much as the Blue Blade — which I learned the humans call a shark. But humans possess an incredible sense that goes beyond anything the shark could boast: taste. Taste! And such tastes! Cigarette butts, baloney sandwiches, grape juice, Vaseline, and best of all, the indescribably vibrant, mind-altering, overwhelming taste of cookies!
Especially the cookies formed by two thin, round, black discs with a layer of adhesive white substance between. Someday I hope my fellow Andalites will be able to visit Earth and morph to human simply for the intense pleasure to be had from eating cookies with a mouth. "I meant our species."
"You said your species."
"Evidently I am insane. May I go now?"
The human raised his hands vertically and said, "Why me, Lord? Why?"
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Honestly, there are so many good, inspiring quotes from the whole series. But I felt that the ones always at the end of the book were the most powerful. Ex: In the Capture at the very end when Jake half morphs a wolf and calls Tom, Cassie (or rachel) says "Do you think he heard you?" and Jake says "He heard." and then the book ends. Its things like that, that carry a lot of emotion from the books on them :logo:
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paraphrasing and not sure of anyone added these:
Tobias ~ 33
Go away, little boy. The hawk understood because it understood nothing. Go away.
Rachel ~ 54
To the ellimist.
"Did I matter?"
"Yes, you were good. You were important. You mattered."
Dak Hamee ~ Hork-Bajir Chronicles
We didn't need the monsters. We had become them.
Esplin 9466 ~ Hork Bajir Chronicles
She (Aldrea) was beautiful. I would tell her that one day. Soon.
When she was my host.
Post Merged: April 22, 2011, 10:06:40 AM
MM3
Visser 4: You can't kill me!
Rachel : Why not? You Killed someone I love (Jake).
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This is from 37
"Somebody grab me a Laa-Laa doll when we're inside okay?" marco said "i really like that little yellow one."
I (Rachel) gave him a look. you know the one
"What?" he said defensivle. "i'll send the manager a check tomorrow. even though he's a yeerk. its not like im going to steal it or anything."
"Uh marco, you do know that Teletubbies are for preschoolers, right?" cassie asked
<"eh-oh, laa-laa"> Ax said <big hug>
I remember laughing so hard when i read that. the fact that an intelligent alien was watching teletubbies was just so funny
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<l didn't fall asleep,> Ax said, sounding injured. <I merely let my mind wander, and became very calm and restful and not completely alert.> -Aximili-Esgarrouth-Isthill, 17 The Underground
The Yeerks were moving swiftly, straight toward the parade. Suddenly, out jumped a Daffy Duck! Right in Visser Three's path. The
Yeerk visser snapped his deadly tail. It flew through the air and Daffy's head went rolling across the ground.
<Noooo!> I cried.
The girl wearing the costume stuck her head up and said, "Hey! What's the matter with you?"
<Aaaahhhh!> the visser moaned. <What kind of creature is that?>
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Mine would be from book number 3 The Encounter after Tobias came back after a few days living as a real hawk:
< Yes,we do,> I said.< More than ever, I understand that. See.. there are human beings all over, trapped in bodies controlled by Yeerks. Trapped. Unable to escape. Rachel, I know how they feel. Maybe I can't escape. Maybe I am trapped forever. But if we can free some of those others. Maybe... I don't know. Maybe that's what I need to do to stay human.>
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but yeah, this is the most memorable section of the animorphs books to me. Very touching.
I totally agree. That's probably the most memorable part of the series for me, too, and definitely the most touching.
Lies. I read #54 and never even saw that line.
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>I start breathing VERY quickly.<
Post Merged: June 02, 2011, 10:02:25 AM
SPOILER ALERT!
'IF YOU HAVE NOT FINISHED THE SERIES, DO NOT READ ON. I REPEAT. DO NOT READ ON.'
>:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D
Famous Lines from book 54.
[spoiler]'I was a flea on Tom's head.'
'It was, as Marco said a "Shiver-My-Spine moment.'
'So cool'
'No Thanks.'
'A LETTER TO THE FANS.*
'Ram the blade ship.'[/spoiler]
*Sorry, went a bit too far.
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Hey I fixed your post for you. Make sure the text you want to put in spoilers is in between the spoiler brackets. so [spoiler] your text here [spoiler]
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in 53 when Jake and Rachel are talking.
~ Jake: If it happens, if it works out that way...I don't have a plan for getting you out.
Rachel: That'a how I like it ~
It was so sad and so Rachel at the same time.
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Technically, I forgot how this was worded...So, I have the book in front of me right now.
I knew he felt keenly the absence of his own family. I could not be his family. He could not be mine. Buy I could be his friend.
I walked over to him. "You are my prince," I said. "And whatever happens next, know that I am proud to have served you."
Jake smiled wistfully and put his hand on my shoulder. "Ax, for the last time..."
"Yes?"
"Don't call me 'prince.'"
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"I smell poop..."
"I smell a banana..."
Animorphs in Fly Morph, #6 The Capture
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here is such an awesome link for animorph quotes loll: http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Animorph
1) this one cracks me up xDD
Book #7
Marco: (as a gorilla) Hi, I just came from a masquerade party, and I was looking for Visser Three. Guard: Andalite! Marco: Oh, so you are a Controller. Good. That makes it so much simpler.
2)
Book #9
"Give me liberty or give me death." A human named Patrick Henry said that. I wonder if the Yeerks knew before they came to conquer Earth that humans said things like that. I wonder if the Yeerks knew what they were getting into.
—From the Earth Diary of Aximili-Esgarrouth-Isthill
3) I just love Marco <33
Book #25
Marco: (narrating) Only then did I realize the true target of Visser Three's hand. He was scratching his butt!
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Going back you really have to love the back and forth b/w Marco and Rachel
"We need to find another way to get at them," I said angrily.
"Get at who?" Marco asked suspiciously.
"The French, Marco,"
""Let me just ask you this," Marco whispered. "Why did it have to be Chapman? I was afraid
of Chapman even before we found out he was a Controller."
"You're not still upset over that detention he gave you?" I asked. "Look, if you're going to
listen to your CD player in math class with an earphone hidden under your hair, you have to
remember not to start singing along."
"Yeah, that was only slightly stupid, Marco," Jake agreed.
"I still say Chapman never would have given me a whole week's detention if he was totally
human."
"Yes, sir. Urn, they were fighting over me. See, they both want me. They're both madly in
love with me, and I can certainly understand why. Can't you?"....
"Humor? You thought I was kidding? You mean, you and Jessica aren't both insanely in love
with me?"
"Dream on, Marco,"
And even when Marco is just talking about Rachel
""Don't let the cat's arrogance get you in trouble," Marco advised. "Keep a little of your good
old human fear." He paused. "Oh, I forgot, mighty Rachel doesn't have any good old human
fear. So here's what you do: Borrow some of my good old human fear. I have plenty to spare."
"I have homework," Jake said. "And trust me, Marco, if Rachel sees you at the mall making
faces while she's on the balance beam, she will turn into an elephant and stomp you."
Marco winced. "Remember the good old days when all a girl could do to you was call you
names?"
But then, Marco always has great lines doesn't he:
"Yes, but I really, really want it to be a comic book. See, in a comic book the heroes
don't get killed. I mean, okay, they killed Superman that time, but it was only temporary."
I've
been known to eat eggplant. So I guess I can't criticize."
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Oh, man, where do I even start?
Pretty much everything that came out of Dak's mouth in HBC. I can almost recite a few of his 'speeches.' The way he talked about his people was so heartfelt and moving, and even though you already know what happens to the Hork-Bajir, you just can't help but to desperately root for them anyway.
The line "Be happy for me, and all who fly free" from #3. That one always sends chills down my spine, because I think it's probably the one time that Tobias actually admits to being happy.
Elfangor's line "Out of a respect for life, you have to endure" from book #33.
And, obviously, what other people have said. The end of the books, when everything was going to hell in a handbasket, was a very emotional time for all of us readers.
At book 3, I had to put down the book, and cried tears of joy!
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"I understand. You probably have something very important to do with your
friends." It was a joke.
"Absolutely," I said. "We have to save the world."
And then of course there's Cassie with a kung-fu grip X)
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one of my most favorite ones was said by Alloran from TAC.
"Even those who return from war may never really come home."
It's very real. :) no matter what species you are, war hurts and harms you.
Animorphs didn't have a feel-good ending and yes, i like it that way. it really set the series apart from other books with the same target-audience.
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Alright, lemme set the stage on this:
I'm now a 22 yro man. I've read all of these books repeatedly. I know all the plots, most of the best lines, and the feel of the stories by heart.
And yet, I still could not stop the tears from welling up when in Book 19 Rachel says " "Cassie was my best friend," I'm not going to be the one to call her a fool." "I'll carry her,"
"I'll keep her safe."
Again, I honestly feel 19 is one of the best of the series-and that one of the best moments.
And yet the last two lines somehow nearly kill it and I go- gGGGGRRH!
:explode:
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one of my absolute favorite animorphs quotes (though I'll be the first to admit, that I can't really pick a favorite, there are too many). Not only is this passage so deep and sad and bittersweet, but it's so well written. i love the juxtaposition of how the ellimist says her life mattered, and then the next sentence has a "small" strand of space time turning into nothingness. Gives me chills.
This is the epilogue from the Ellimist Chronicles:
I told the dying human, “Now you know who I am. What I am.”
”Yeah, You were a kid. Like me in some ways, a kid who got in way too deep and couldn’t get back out.”
”A kid.”
”You were trapped. You still are. I’ve been trapped.”
”Yes,” I said.
”Was I one of your game pieces? Were all six of us just game pieces?”
I considered that for a moment. Who is to say who is piece and who is player? How often had I wondered whether I myself was just a game piece in a still larger game whose players laughed at my pretensions?
”I did not cause you to be one of the six. You are … you were … a happy accident. An unwitting contribution from the human race to its own survival.”
The human was silent. No begging, no pleading for life. At the end, acceptance came even to this strong, turbulent spirit. “You said I could ask one more question.”
”Yes.”
”I can’t ask if we win, I can’t ask if it will all turn out okay.”
”I don’t know those answers.”
”Okay, then answer this, Ellimist: Did I… did I make a difference? My life, and my … my death … was I worth it? Did my life really matter?”
”Yes. You were brave. You were strong. You were good. You mattered.”
”Yeah. Okay, then. Okay, then.”
A small strand of space-time went dark and coiled into nothingness.
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<from the rising of the sun to it's setting to it's rising again, we place what is hard to endure with what is sweet to remember and find peace>
I just love the evening ritual
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The only sentences I could never forget are from Book 18.
Ax is narrating:
"At this point I would like to bring one more element : human language can be very imprecise.
She had said "take one".
One what?
One cinnamon bun?
One tray of cinnamon buns?
So, was it my fault if there had been a misunderstanding?"
(PS: if someone has the exact wording of the scene, could you post it please? My book is in French and I'm just writing a loosy translation here^^)
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here you go :)
She indicated a square array of cinnamon buns. Perhaps a dozen in all!
"For me?" I asked in a voice choked with emotion.
"Sure, son. Go ahead and have one."
Let me make one final point here: human mouth-sound language is very fuzzy at times.
"Have one," she'd said.
One mouthful? One bun?
One tray?
It was certainly not my fault if there was any confusion.
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True, most of the lines I put up here I've forgotten more than once.
But the favorite quotes thread is buried so I'll keep it here:
"Not a bad body on that one....
What? What, I can't compliment a fish girl?"
*bows to Marco*
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anything the helmacrons say is just classic :D
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When reading 54, I could keep myself from crying until Tobias morphs human and Rachel says "I love you". That is the most memorable and touching quote to me.... and after she says that, I lost it and started bawling :(
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For some reason I really loved the exchange in Visser where visser 1 says that Marco is weak and will never amount to anything. And then later in the book visser 1(didnt know whether to say he or she lol) admits that Marco is a very perceptive person who could see through all the bull and get to the bottom line. Marco's always been my favorite character and that was a great recognition of his talents from a clearly tough critic.
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from 30, one of the most emotionally charged books in an extremely emotionally charged series.
<I love you,> I whispered. And then, I lunged.
"The boy!" she whispered, amazed. "It's the boy!"
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I love the end of The Pretender, even though it was mentioned already. I like Tobias going <message received father, message received.> as he flies off.
I bet a lot of the rest have been mentioned by now...there were great funny lines and some good serious ones too.
There's another good prince one too.
Jake <Don't call me prince>
Ax: I will call you the Jake formerly known as Prince.
I read the book with the barf stuff again last night...Marco forgot a big one though: Praying to the porcelain god
Isn't there one where Rachel herself says something about "morph into an elephant and STOMP YOU FLAT" ?
The dance in The Sickness, a lot of good lines there. "You'll take her back to your tree" "Hey, the chicks go wild for the feathers, bay-bee"
Ax: She wants my body! bdee!
Rachel saying she'd only go out with Marco if pigs fly
The Secret...Marco, I think: Oooh, Lean Cuisine frozen mouse entrees
Oh and you all forgot Tobias: "Let's just say, if you get on my nerves, you better buy a hat."
I forget which book, but Marco's comment to Rachel about 'the chakram of your wit"
The Reaction
"I'm Falling Girl's sidekick, Dropping Chick."
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Isn't there one where Rachel herself says something about "morph into an elephant and STOMP YOU FLAT" ?
You might be thinking of Jake in MM3, the Agincourt scene:
"So, there we were, suddenly appearing in the middle of a bunch of tents full of guys wearing armor," I said conversationally. "Naturally we figured we'd better lie low. Not attract attention. Not cause any trouble."
<Are you really mad?> Rachel asked.
(Jake and Marco go to pull the poor knight out of the mud)
"I figured I'd try the subtle approach," I said. "But, of course, that's just me. It hadn't occurred to me that what I should do is morph into elephant and STOMP PEOPLE INTO THE MUD!"
<You are mad.>
"Why would I be mad? Just because at the very moment I'm thinking 'Cool, we snuck past the guards,' I suddenly hear and ELEPHANT?"
Such a fantastic exchange. But now that I'm rethinking, I think you might be right. I think Rachel might have said something along those lines to David.
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I forgot some in The Reaction...I love all the mocking Jake and Marco do over Jeremy Jason. And the Brad Pitt lips thing.
Which book has the 'peeless' exchange? I don't recall Tobias's line, but Ax replies <I am as peeless as you, my friend>
The Warning
Marco: I want to leave my brain to science
Rachel: Good, they're the ones with the microscopes they'll need to find it.
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Book 13 the Change
Jara Hamee slices his head open to prove there is no yeerk.
Tobias: <Did that scare the pee out of you, Ax-man, or doesn't that kind of thing bother you Andalites?>
Ax: <I am as peeless as you, Tobias, my friend.>
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<Darlene likes him,> Ax said. <But she doesn't like him.>
<That's pretty much how everyone feels about Marco,>
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"That's not Dipsy," Cassie corrected. "That's Tinky Winky. Dipsy's green
and has the straight up thing. Tinky Winky's the one with the triangle."
<Who's the little red one?> Marco wondered.
"Po," Cassie said.
<0h, yeah.>
"No offense," Erek said, "but how on Earth have you people managed to
avoid getting caught for this long?"
Gets me everytime XD
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There were a few.
"My name is Jake Berenson"
That gave me a chill. It showed everything was different now
And when Tom said to Jake:
"Little brother, you've got to know by now: Wars aren't won with clean hands."
Because it is so true.
"Be happy for me, and all who fly free" Tobias in #3
I can not tell you why, but I love it
<They'll come,> Tobias said. <The Andalites will come. And until then . . . >
I nodded and wiped away my tears. "Yeah," I said. "Until then, we fight."
It's just so sad"
Tobias.
He had morphed. He was his human self once
more. He'd done that for me. And because he
was crying. I understood. Humans cry, hawks
don't.
"I love you," I said to the screen.
"And oh, god, how could so much regret and so much sweetness and so much sadness all be present in that single moment. I was already dead and missing my unlived life."
I really cried at this one. It says so much... I love and hate it. And the scene with her and the Ellimist of course
And the Trashcan part was also great xD
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It was from the stars that all my problems had come.
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PP 146-147 of "The Reaction", during the aftermath of the great melee in the TV studio involving a crocodile, Rachel bear, Cassie squirrel, Marco Llama, and Ax. Cassie had turned off the lights to help hide the Animorph secret. Cassie then morphs into Rachel and is talking to a producer. Cassie/Rachel: Yeah, I'm glad it (the crocodile) didn't get me. I'm getting out of here. I have to find my Dad. He's here somewhere. It would help if someone would like, you know, get things organized.
Producer: Andalite!
Cassie: Yeah, a light would be helpful, too.
I like that pun!
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one of my absolute favorite animorphs quotes (though I'll be the first to admit, that I can't really pick a favorite, there are too many). Not only is this passage so deep and sad and bittersweet, but it's so well written. i love the juxtaposition of how the ellimist says her life mattered, and then the next sentence has a "small" strand of space time turning into nothingness. Gives me chills.
This is the epilogue from the Ellimist Chronicles:
I told the dying human, “Now you know who I am. What I am.”
”Yeah, You were a kid. Like me in some ways, a kid who got in way too deep and couldn’t get back out.”
”A kid.”
”You were trapped. You still are. I’ve been trapped.”
”Yes,” I said.
”Was I one of your game pieces? Were all six of us just game pieces?”
I considered that for a moment. Who is to say who is piece and who is player? How often had I wondered whether I myself was just a game piece in a still larger game whose players laughed at my pretensions?
”I did not cause you to be one of the six. You are … you were … a happy accident. An unwitting contribution from the human race to its own survival.”
The human was silent. No begging, no pleading for life. At the end, acceptance came even to this strong, turbulent spirit. “You said I could ask one more question.”
”Yes.”
”I can’t ask if we win, I can’t ask if it will all turn out okay.”
”I don’t know those answers.”
”Okay, then answer this, Ellimist: Did I… did I make a difference? My life, and my … my death … was I worth it? Did my life really matter?”
”Yes. You were brave. You were strong. You were good. You mattered.”
”Yeah. Okay, then. Okay, then.”
A small strand of space-time went dark and coiled into nothingness.
Having finished the series but not read the EC, this quote makes it really obvious who dies. I mean, in one of the books (I want to say MM4) the Drode states that Tobias, Marco, Cassie and Ax were chosen to be in the team by the Ellimist. This leaves two characters left, Jake and Rachel, who the Ellimist says were "happy accidents". It doesn't take a genius to work out who it is that dies.
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I don't remember that, but I believe you. I knew who died before I read #13, but that scene still hit me hard.
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that quote from the epilogue gave me chills the first time I read it, and it just gave me chills again reading it now