Richard's Animorphs Forum

Animorphs Section => Group Re-Reads => Animorphs Forum Classic => Past Re-Reads => Topic started by: Terenia on December 10, 2009, 08:20:53 PM

Title: Group Re-Read: #40 The Other
Post by: Terenia on December 10, 2009, 08:20:53 PM
Summary
Ax and the Animorphs have always believed he was the only non-infested Andalite on Earth. That he alone survived the terrible battle between his people and the Yeerks. Until Now. There were other survivors. Other Andalites. And they're here on Earth. Trying to keep a low profile. Trying to find a way to defeat Visser Three. Trying -- like Ax and the Animorphs -- to stay alive until help finally comes.


Questions
1) In this book we discover that Ax was not the only survivor of the battle that started everything. What do you think of the fact that it took 40 books (and presumably about two years) for the Ani's to discover Mertil and Gafinilan?

2) Why do you think that Marco took it upon himself to 'go it alone' so much in this book?

3) Gafinilan has a genetic disease that means he will die, and painfully. The only way out is to become a nothlit, but as of the time when this book takes place Mertil has chosen to endure the disease. Do you think this is honorable? Stupid?

4) Ax shows a powerful distaste for vecols, Andalites with disabilities. This seems to be an opinion that is not exclusive to Ax, but shared by most Andalites. What does this say about Andalites and Andalite culture in general?

5) What do you think happened to Mertil and Gafinilan?

Next book: Megamorphs #4 Back to Before
Title: Re: Group Re-Read: #40 The Other
Post by: Chad32 on December 10, 2009, 08:28:42 PM
It's Gafinilan that has the disease.

Andalites are all about honor, and becoming a nothlit to escape the disease could be considered simply running away from a problem.

As far as racism and discrimination goes, I think it's pretty recent for people to treat others equally instead of judging them by looks or whatever. Andalites may be too focused on the war to have their period of enlightenment.

Gafinilan probably died quietly, and Mertil hopefully moved in with Marco. But since they aren't mentioned again, I can only hope Mertil found a content life after his shorm died.

I don't know why it took so long for the Anis to find them, or why Marco went in alone so often.
Title: Re: Group Re-Read: #40 The Other
Post by: Terenia on December 10, 2009, 09:44:24 PM
Whoops, sorry. I always mix them up for some reason... >_> Fixed.
Title: Re: Group Re-Read: #40 The Other
Post by: AniDragon on December 10, 2009, 10:04:46 PM
You know, first time I read this book, I didn't really care for it much, but now it really strikes me for some reason. Maybe after having lost a loved one to cancer, I can identify more with Mertil. (Since the illness Gafinilan had seemed very similar to cancer, since it was genetic)

And you do actually see a lot of cancer patients refuse treatment, so the fact that Gafinilan refused to become a nothlit to save his own life is actually quite understandable. He's accepted his eventual death, and just wants to be left alone with his shrom/best friend/soulmate/whatever for his last few days.
Title: Re: Group Re-Read: #40 The Other
Post by: anijen21 on December 10, 2009, 10:48:40 PM
1) In this book we discover that Ax was not the only survivor of the battle that started everything. What do you think of the fact that it took 40 books (and presumably about two years) for the Ani's to discover Mertil and Gafinilan?

ONE REASON:

Quote from: K.A. Applegate speaks...and answers some FAQs (in the back of #31, The Conspiracy)
Anifan: Could there be more Andalites on Earth that could help the Animorphs?
K.A.A.: Actually, that's an interesting idea. Maybe someone besides Ax survived the destruction of the Dome Ship. Hmmm.

I could think of an in-story reason, but you know what? This is too perfect/cynical for me to pass up. I kind of want to go through all the old "Ask KA"s from back in the day now and see what other fan questions inspired plots.

2) Why do you think that Marco took it upon himself to 'go it alone' so much in this book?
Because...he was narrating? Actually, I thought that aspect of it was kind of random. It would have made sense if Marco had dealt with someone in his life who had had a disability, if there was any level of it being personal to him at all, but for the most part it just seemed to be Marco because Marco was the window through which we were viewing this book, you know? It could have been any of them. If I had to pick who it should have been...I think it might have been interesting to see this whole story told from Tobias' perspectives. I would say Cassie, but she would have just been indignant/unapproachable and then done something really radical and potentially deadly that would have worked out fine.

3) Gafinilan has a genetic disease that means he will die, and painfully. The only way out is to become a nothlit, but as of the time when this book takes place Mertil has chosen to endure the disease. Do you think this is honorable? Stupid?
If any thing, I think it's Andalite. A symptom of being a social animal, sometimes you're restricted by taboos like honor or dignity. Same weird reason we're not allowed to buy organs from people, it has to be "donated," you know? Something about that strikes people as inappropriate, so people die rather than get the treatment they could potentially afford. I think it was in-character, if anything. Andalites do a lot of stupid stuff. Then again, so do humans.

4) Ax shows a powerful distaste for vecols, Andalites with disabilities. This seems to be an opinion that is not exclusive to Ax, but shared by most Andalites. What does this say about Andalites and Andalite culture in general?
I'm pretty much just repeating what other, smarter people have said before me, but based on their culture and evolution it actually seems like a really appropriate reaction. Back in the day, Andalites were herd animals, and herd animals stick together because they have to move together. One old, injured, or crippled member of the herd is going to slow them down. So back before morals and consciences and judgment and technology, that member would be left behind with nary a second glance, but now, with accountability and society, there has to be a more appropriate consequence to slowing down the herd. That is social pariahism. The incentive to not doing something in social settings is that others will think it's disgusting or unacceptable. Of course it's abominably unfair and bigoted, but then again...so are humans.

5) What do you think happened to Mertil and Gafinilan?
I think it's pretty clear Gafinilan died, though whether or not it was before the end of the series is up to debate. These are just two of the secondary characters I'm upset we never heard from again. There was a whole cast of these that could have offered assistance in various things, the kinds of one-shot characters that become recurring when you get a long series like this. Like Q in Star Trek, who was probably just meant to be featured in the pilot and never heard from again, or Badger in Firefly. I would have loved to see them developed a little more, if only to fuel my obsession with this ship. They were really sweet...until their sweetness turned into a deus ex machina at the end to help the team find Mertil. That was just disgustingly convenient.
Title: Re: Group Re-Read: #40 The Other
Post by: Chad32 on December 11, 2009, 08:53:23 AM
You know, I'm not sure why this was a Marco book, instead of a Tobias or Ax book. Seems like it should have been one of them thta narrated. But I guess sometimes these story ideas come up, and get put in the hands of whoever is coming up next instead of waiting for someone better. It was Marco's turn next when that idea came up, so he narrated.
Title: Re: Group Re-Read: #40 The Other
Post by: dolphin4077 on December 11, 2009, 12:12:18 PM
1.  I agree with Anijen that it was probably a fan motivated thing.  I have to give Applegate & Scholastic credit for listening and putting in fan requests.  The only problem was that whenever a fan request was granted, it never turned out the way I wanted.

2. I agree with everyone who said it would've been interesting to have Ax or Tobias narrate.  I definitely would've loved to have known Tobias' thoughts on the whole you can't go nothlit to save your life.  However, a very interesting aspect of Marco came out during this book.  Cynical, ruthless Marco cares.  Too often the books highlight the Animorphs' negative changes.  This was one of those times we see a positive personality trait the war hasn't tainted or possibly made even better.  So I think Marco "going at it alone" a lot was his way of protecting the others, especially Jake.  And this was an appropriate time to bring that up in because a major theme in this book was how far would you go to protect your best friend.

3.  I remember reading in a Chuck Palahniuk book that an involuntary sex change operation would be the worse form of mutilation.  I think there's a huge difference between a Taxxon who becomes a nothlit to stop being a Taxxon and an Andalite who goes nothlit because of a life threatening disease.  I think it comes down to a choice of what you value more, your life or your identity. 

4.  Pretty much what everyone else said.  But this does make me wonder about Andalite prosthetic technology.  I wonder if this is the one area of science that humans might be more advanced in because it seems like a taboo area for Anadalites. 

5.  I wished there more definite answers because I liked them.  Gafinilan more than likely died.  If Mertil survived, I hoped Marco kept his promise.
Title: Re: Group Re-Read: #40 The Other
Post by: RYTX on December 11, 2009, 10:24:11 PM
Short answer: 1)Ridiculous but acceptable
2) No idea
3) Totally understandable imo, do what you have to to stay alive, that's what I aim for in life
4)See below
5) Agree with dolphin, but so sad. Poor everyone involved
And now....Other)
Lumping a bunch of answers into this; somehow it's this book that makes me think of the overall degregation of the Andalite race.
Think about it; we start out with Elfangor: he comes in, dies for us, is all loving and good and we adore him, we find out later he's not really all perfect but still he's the overarcing good guy....Then we get Ax and he's got a few character flaws, but still a good guy, good solider, but he starts showing that, obviously Andalites have some dark history, espcieally in some individuals like Alloran.
Then you enter in the traditor in 18 and the fact that even though they need and accept human help, Andalites still keep talking about people as inferior and failing to return the help, and andalites on the whole are getting harder and harder to like.
Now here we throw in btw Andalites hate cripples and I start saying really, wtf? Couple this with the quarentine at the end and it's I have to ask, why do the Andalites suck so much
I mean I'm sure a part of it is making it more complex, no ones all good, reflection on historical human ideals blah blah blah
But by this point the Andalites have gone from being deities to being the antithesis to everything seasame st. told you was good. For me all this just makes it easier to dislike the Andalites a lot more than Yeerks in several ways :-\
Title: Re: Group Re-Read: #40 The Other
Post by: AniDragon on December 13, 2009, 05:47:57 PM
I think that that's half the point, though. At the start, the books were all about "Waiting for the Andalites to save us", and by the end, it really had to become "You know what? Screw you, Andalites, we're going to save OURSELVES." And that might have been harder to transition to if the Andalites really had been as good and wonderful as everyone would assume from meeting Elfangor.
Title: Re: Group Re-Read: #40 The Other
Post by: Serraph105 on December 15, 2009, 12:07:51 AM
I think that that's half the point, though. At the start, the books were all about "Waiting for the Andalites to save us", and by the end, it really had to become "You know what? Screw you, Andalites, we're going to save OURSELVES." And that might have been harder to transition to if the Andalites really had been as good and wonderful as everyone would assume from meeting Elfangor.
good point, actually great point. The Animorphs really did come full circle as they grew up they realised that there was not this entire species of idealized angelic morals (ok maybe the Chee but they died before anyone met them). Instead they had randomly met a single part of the species who had been through enough hell to realise that you can't always follow orders and law all the time. Instead Elfangor understood you have to make your own decisions so that what is good and honerable might be achieved.

At first The Animorphs when they were much younger thought there were no shades of gray in the Andalites, but as they grew up and experienced more of them they realised that every shade of gray existed in that species just as much as it did in humans. Strangely enough it was Ax (a member of the Andalights) that was the last of the Animorphs to come to terms with  the fact that the Andalights were not always perfect and wonderful.
Title: Re: Group Re-Read: #40 The Other
Post by: Gafrash on December 15, 2009, 11:21:03 AM
1) In this book we discover that Ax was not the only survivor of the battle that started everything. What do you think of the fact that it took 40 books (and presumably about two years) for the Ani's to discover Mertil and Gafinilan?
Yeah, it's kind of a retarded effect, since many wondered if Ax was the only one. Even Elfangor had made it to the Troposphere. I guess, this is the kind of story we had all thought of, but KA opted to keep it on the back of her head until the series progressed. It would have been a bit overshadowing to have Ax show up in #4 and then #14 have some more Andalites strolling around with the protagonists.
For the Anis to have taken that long to discover the two, we can only assume that Gafinilan and Mertil were both fully-trained Andalite warriors that were resourceful in keeping their status occult.
I am failing to remember exactly how the Yeerks got to Mertil, though...


2) Why do you think that Marco took it upon himself to 'go it alone' so much in this book?
I am not sure about the question here.
I think Marco cared, more than he would admit, about the situation of the two Andalites. But no more than the others, I presume. I recall the final scene with Marco jumping through the carriages to save Mertil. But all the Anis were also there.


3) Gafinilan has a genetic disease that means he will die, and painfully. The only way out is to become a nothlit, but as of the time when this book takes place Mertil has chosen to endure the disease. Do you think this is honorable? Stupid?
Given that Gafinilan isn't a human (like say, Tobias), but a fully-trained Andalite warrior, adding this to his rock-solid tough personality, I think honor had a lot to do with it. I think this 'alien' factor adds an unknown element in the subject of conduct.


4) Ax shows a powerful distaste for vecols, Andalites with disabilities. This seems to be an opinion that is not exclusive to Ax, but shared by most Andalites. What does this say about Andalites and Andalite culture in general?
I saw this as a breaking-glass point in the Andalite culture. Shameful and contradictory for the species that calls themselves decent and advanced. Comparable to the Yeerks, how they don't even bother with bodies that have incurable diseases or disabilities.
And it is certainly not unlike humans, as many noted here. But this makes them more realistic, I think, it highlights the flaws that EVERY culture has, and it shows that even highly advanced species aren't culturally tainted.


5) What do you think happened to Mertil and Gafinilan?
I like to think that, though Gafinilan wouldn't have made it till the end of the war to return to his homeworld and get treatment for his genetic disease, Mertil would have given his shorm the proper care until the time of his death. And post-war, Mertil would have returned to his homeworld and become somewhat a hermit.
I actually connected really well with the two characters, but found it too coincidental to have THE ONLY TWO other Andalite survivors have some condition that incapacitated their help in the war.

I think that that's half the point, though. At the start, the books were all about "Waiting for the Andalites to save us", and by the end, it really had to become "You know what? Screw you, Andalites, we're going to save OURSELVES." And that might have been harder to transition to if the Andalites really had been as good and wonderful as everyone would assume from meeting Elfangor.
I really like this point, too.
The Anis definitely turned more pro-active once this dawned in them. Employing more guerrilla-like tactics in their missions, they filled up their respective group roles more and more as the series carried on. Even as the Yeerks turned up the heat, the Anis were kinda always meeting the match, if not for the previous experiences earlier in the series.
Title: Re: Group Re-Read: #40 The Other
Post by: throwaway_gull on December 15, 2009, 06:16:03 PM
I'm just going to chime in on the Anadalites' distake for vecols. Caring for those unable to care for themselves is in fact one of the basics of defining a human civilization.  The long war with the Yeerks could have made the Anadalite's so utlitility driven that they have lost parts of themselves.

My real question is why did one of the Animorphs not acquire Mertil? That way is they had to morph an Andalite around Ax it wouldn't have been obvious. Of course, if Mertil was allegric to the morphing technology, would that allergy be in his DNA?
Title: Re: Group Re-Read: #40 The Other
Post by: Kitulean on December 15, 2009, 06:19:04 PM
Probably that whole aversion to morphing sentient creatures. Which I thought personally was BS and they should have gotten over it by the end of the series. Morphing into someone's shape is NOT the same as taking them over the way a yeerk does, no matter how much Cassie tried to act like it was.
Title: Re: Group Re-Read: #40 The Other
Post by: Chad32 on December 15, 2009, 06:20:56 PM
The allergy may have been in his DNA, and the Anis may have just not thought about it. There are multiple times in the series where the anis could do something useful, but just didn't think about it. Like morphing distance fliers early in the series, or use the Chee to pose as them while they're off on missions starting in book 11 instead of book 25. It just doesn't cross their minds until later. If ever.
Title: Re: Group Re-Read: #40 The Other
Post by: Kitulean on December 15, 2009, 06:29:55 PM
Them not morphing distance flyers for so long when they constantly complained about not having distance flyers was so ridiculous.  ::)
Title: Re: Group Re-Read: #40 The Other
Post by: Chad32 on December 15, 2009, 06:46:55 PM
Hearing them talk about not being able to fly very far at a time, and having to stay so far apart from each other to not attract attention was kind of a wall banger for much of the series. Same with tobias complaing because his night vision was bad after he got his power back.

I can understand the Chee thing more, since they do have lives to live other than pretending to be the Anis. Erek even mentions this once to Marco.
Title: Re: Group Re-Read: #40 The Other
Post by: Gafrash on December 17, 2009, 12:02:47 PM
Probably that whole aversion to morphing sentient creatures. Which I thought personally was BS and they should have gotten over it by the end of the series. Morphing into someone's shape is NOT the same as taking them over the way a yeerk does, no matter how much Cassie tried to act like it was.
That's a bit of a funny one, because KA established that human morphs take onboard the sentience and sense of identity of the original. It's an interesting topic because she subsequently makes a statement that everything a human is, including thoughts and feelings, is encoded in DNA.
The 'aversion' of the Animorphs may actually be more practical than a ethical one. Basically there's complexity when a human morphs another human, it is not as simple as morphing non-sentient creatures. Unlike Ax, who ISN'T human, but IS sentient and isn't attached.

I never thought of what would happen if the Anis morphed Mertil! It would be interesting to see what his DNA-condition causes to the morpher.
But with the Yeerks having already rejected him, knowing his disability, I imagine it would be sabotaging on the 'Andalite Bandits' part to have a fully healed Mertil galloping around claiming to be healed and morph-capable again...
Title: Re: Group Re-Read: #40 The Other
Post by: anijen21 on December 17, 2009, 12:22:15 PM
what book was that? The only time I remember onboard sentience was #36 when they morphed killer whales and that was just so weird that I kind of filed it under discontinuity. If that had happened more frequently I would have expected them to stop morphing sentient creatures not because of their morals but because of how creeped out they'd have been.
Title: Re: Group Re-Read: #40 The Other
Post by: Chad32 on December 17, 2009, 12:43:55 PM
I don't remember her ever establising that sentience is encoded in DNA. That would beg the question of why Ax never hears a voice in his head during his narrations. I've always said that there should be no problem with morphing people, as long as they don't commit bad deeds while usng a person's identity. Thinking that's the same as what they yeerks do i just stupid.
Title: Re: Group Re-Read: #40 The Other
Post by: AniDragon on December 17, 2009, 02:09:30 PM
In book 12, Cassie did mention that her Rachel morph kept wanting to do really stupid things. *shrugs* But that was also quite early on, before they really started thinking that morphing sentient creatures was bad.
Title: Re: Group Re-Read: #40 The Other
Post by: Chad32 on December 17, 2009, 02:11:42 PM
I always thought that was a joke. That she wasn't being serious.
Title: Re: Group Re-Read: #40 The Other
Post by: anijen21 on December 17, 2009, 02:23:44 PM
lol I agree with Chad, but here it is for your own judgment:

Quote from: #12, The Reaction, p. 147
I fell into step behind Cassie. "Nice job, sister," I said.

"Oh, good, you're back," she said. "It's a good thing. I'm having the worst time trying to control this morph!"

"You're having trouble being me? What could be hard about that?"

She raised an eyebrow in a way that looked as much like Cassie as it did like me. "This brain of yours. It keeps trying to get me to do really dumb things."

Come on, you guys. That's like Cassie's one good joke in this entire series. Let her have it and move on.
Title: Re: Group Re-Read: #40 The Other
Post by: Gafrash on December 25, 2009, 11:14:15 PM
I'm not so sure if it was a joke.
That book falls under the early stories, where KA herself wrote and there were a lot of detail. But much like 'thought-speaking-while-not-in-morph' and even 'Jake-acquiring-Homer's-memories-while-in-dog-morph', these KA factors ceased later on.
If anything, this could be a discontinuity, granted. But in the books where the Anis, and even Ax, do sentient morphs, the narrator always hints to an added sentience on board their own (think human, Hork-bajir and Andalite). Animals such as whales, dolphins, wolves, gorillas... all carried intelligence, but not the sentience found on the above.
Title: Re: Group Re-Read: #40 The Other
Post by: Chad32 on December 25, 2009, 11:21:04 PM
I have never heard of Ax mentioning any sort of alternate awareness while in Human morph, and he was the one that did it the most.

It doesn't make sense for there to be self awareness built into DNA like that.
Title: Re: Group Re-Read: #40 The Other
Post by: CounterInstinct on September 17, 2010, 10:02:58 PM
maybe Rachel naturally has a lot of testosterone, giving her a really quick temper. :P :D
Title: Re: Group Re-Read: #40 The Other
Post by: Gafrash on September 18, 2010, 11:08:25 AM
I have never heard of Ax mentioning any sort of alternate awareness while in Human morph, and he was the one that did it the most.

It doesn't make sense for there to be self awareness built into DNA like that.
In a fictional universe where morphs can be looked at like replicas of the biological manifestations??!?!! You might be mistaking the whole self awareness thing I am saying for something around the concept of the 'soul', but it's not something that I am referring to here. KA never really delved into such things in her stories, not really.

It's really about discerning how much of humans is 'stored' genetically, but I fear this topic is too complex and not structured well enough in the series to be discussed. The closest I can get to it is highlighting the fact that in many occasions the animal's instincts hijacked the human one, as we know, and, logic states that the same should happen if you morph a sapien. The individual's brain would be there with you, so it would be feasible, if you were to morph a fat person who's 'hardwired' to eat fries, for the sake of an example, and have to discern the inclinations, if you were a healthy eater yourself. It is anyone's game. If you start thinking of morphing someone of the opposite sex, this might be easier to conceive.
All I am saying is that Cassie's statement, in the episode where she morphed Rachel, seems to support this.

Ax's feedback on humans was from an alien perspective really. He never really viewed humans as sentient or not. In fact he couldn't understand the humans trying to differenciate themselves from the rest of Earth's fauna, if my memory serves. I also got a vague memory about him in human morph mentioning being attracted to Rachel's looks, and we all know Rachel to be a minty female specimen. Why would him, in his morph, not say the same for, say, Cassie, who is also a female of the opposite sex?!

But having had the others morph humans (despite their ethics and all), the most curious one to me was Marco morphing that fat office guy during The Reunion. I mean, he turned into the same fat man, which seems to suggests that the man's condition was a genetic one, hence, 'hardwired' into that individual's brain. Tobias morphing what's her face, and Marco morphing The Governor.... Let's face it, there really wasn't enough feedback on what it's like to morph humans, beyond the whole 'it's wrong' thing. So I am forced to file the 'Cassie-morph-Rachel's thing under discontinuity.

Title: Re: Group Re-Read: #40 The Other
Post by: Chad32 on September 18, 2010, 12:24:43 PM
There is instincts, and there is self awareness. You're talking about instincts, which of course Humans have. I'm just saying at no point did the Human morph start talking and questioning its existance or opinion on what it was being made to do. That's a big difference, and why I think the rule is pointless. Yes there are ways to use a person's body wrong, but none of the Anis would do that kind of thing.
Title: Re: Group Re-Read: #40 The Other
Post by: LisaCharly on September 18, 2010, 03:12:51 PM
I'm pretty sure Cassie was just zinging Rachel.
Title: Re: Group Re-Read: #40 The Other
Post by: Gafrash on September 22, 2010, 11:33:56 AM
Glad you're 'pretty sure', I, for one, am CERTAIN of what I am saying.
Don't want to keep on hitting this nail (especially since it's relative to The Reaction Re-read Thread) but just to round it up, my rationale for the case in point goes as follows:

A human is an animal, whose mind consists of an amalgalm of complex systems, too many and complex to here state. But take emotion for the sake of argument. The average human is capable of a vast array of emotions, that discern it from the animalia.

The subject: Rachel is a human character whose persona is a catalogue of bravery, confrontational, boldness, style, eclecticism, temperamental, stubborness, zeal, etc...

The issue: Cassie, whom, let's agree is Rachel's diametrical opposite persona, inspite being her best friend, same gender and age, morphs Rachel for the sake of a mission. She gets the job done, but hints towards inner conflict to do with the 'Rachel' morph.

Result: Yes, Cassie made her little retort, but to me it was also another factor to morphing added to this stage of the series. Much like the Z-Space-mass-storage or the metamorphosis-re-news-the-2-hours-clock etc...
So we get quote This brain of yours. It keeps trying to get me to do really dumb things unquote.
Which is indicative of some sort of a inner conflict, due to the Rachel morph on Cassie's part. Comparisons would indicate a character like Cassie would think of things a character like Rachel would do as dumb, hence we get the light-hearted retort. Remember they are still best friends.
The feedback there is indicative that Cassie didn't just get the base human emotions (remember she is a female of the same age and shouldn't be a stranger to the mind of a subject of the same sex and age). She got the conflicting ones to her own persona, which HAPPEN TO BE the ones willing to do what she judges as 'stupid things', much like the ones one may take Rachel for doing.

My interpretation: That beyond the human mind, 'Rachel' (brave, bold, confrontational, action-adrenaline rush etc...) was alongside the 'Cassie' (peace-keeper, serene, intuitive and so on) mind during the morph.

My hypothesis: That scene is still significantly early in the series, (#12) so the author may have still been discerning what she wanted to 'say' in her series (nothing more evident than in the very first book).
Since I can't think of any other instances where the narrators came up with something along this, I can only think that KA decided to steer away from that. And so we get this discontinuity.

We never really delved into this through the narrator. Only through hints of the other characters. Mostly Cassie, really.
But we can't deny that the protagonists (with the possible exception of Ax) agreed that morphing humans was an ethical decision without reason.
Sure, KA did it so she wouldn't have to do the 'morph human' thing as a cheap way out of the plots, make life harder for the Anis, but the concept is feasible just the same.



I have never heard of Ax mentioning any sort of alternate awareness while in Human morph, and he was the one that did it the most.

It doesn't make sense for there to be self awareness built into DNA like that.
Of course it doesn't. That's my personal view, too.
But Cassie's comment suggests otherwise.

Ax was hardly expressive on lots of matters (ref. to his own homeworld descriptions, technology). He began a diary on humans that was discontinued throughout his narrratives. He is an Andalite (that sees himself somewhat superior, and as such, never looked at humans as any different than Hork-Bajirs, Taxxons or non-sentient creatures), an 'outsider looking in', who had enough control over his morph, to not have anything worth mentioning. He never mentioned anything towards the raw hunter-gatherer instincts, the primate offshoot physiology... and yet we know it's all there.

maybe Rachel naturally has a lot of testosterone, giving her a really quick temper. :P :D
I laughed the first time I read it, but you know what, writing the above, the more I give CounterInstinct's thought, the more it makes sense. It may well be as simple as that. Chemicals are biologically coded and that we have seen active in morphs before (e.g. Marco/wolf spider making web).  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Group Re-Read: #40 The Other
Post by: Terenia on September 22, 2010, 05:57:04 PM
:tldr:


:P :P


Er....I'll have the next one up tonight *runs*
Title: Re: Group Re-Read: #40 The Other
Post by: RYTX on October 23, 2010, 03:29:31 PM
Not to rush ya or anything jess, but subtlty didn't work, and I can't ignore the smart-mouth in me any longer

:tldr:


:P :P


Er....I'll have the next one up tonight *runs*

Longest
Night
Ever
Title: Re: Group Re-Read: #40 The Other
Post by: Semeir-Cooraf-Armaheen on November 06, 2010, 09:57:15 PM
I just read this book today, and I'm so tempted to write up a fanfic about Gafinilan's last few days. Somehow, I can see Cassie being the one who visits and helps him through it. She seems to be the "resident veterinarian" and I can just see her taking bags of IV morphine to help Ganfinilan through the worst pain. She could tell Mertil how to do it and then leave them alone with it.

I am sure Gafinilan would accept the pain relief if it meant he had a more dignified passing. Poor guy.


Btw, I've seen Clydesdales up close--they are HUGE horses, now add the human-like torso to that height and Gafinilan is one huge honkin' Andalite.

I always imagined Andalites with horse bodies like Andalusians, but after reading this I think the lower halves and body sizes of Andalites are as various as different horse breeds here on Earth.


1) In this book we discover that Ax was not the only survivor of the battle that started everything. What do you think of the fact that it took 40 books (and presumably about two years) for the Ani's to discover Mertil and Gafinilan?

Because they were so good at hiding, methinks.

2) Why do you think that Marco took it upon himself to 'go it alone' so much in this book?

Marco is Marco, and sometimes I think he likes to try and be a hero.

3) Gafinilan has a genetic disease that means he will die, and painfully. The only way out is to become a nothlit, but as of the time when this book takes place Ganfinilan has chosen to endure the disease. Do you think this is honorable? Stupid?

What do YOU think is honorable? Andalites are a different culture than us. Once upon a time in Japan, seppuku was honorable. Andalites seem to value dignity, and being afraid of or unwilling to face a pain that challenges a warrior may be seen as cowardly. They face death head-on.

4) Ax shows a powerful distaste for vecols, Andalites with disabilities. This seems to be an opinion that is not exclusive to Ax, but shared by most Andalites. What does this say about Andalites and Andalite culture in general?

Again, this seems to be cultural. It could also be fear--as people fear what they don't understand. Maybe the people who see a disabled Andalite feel fear because "That could be me!"

5) What do you think happened to Mertil and Gafinilan?

Gafinilan most likely lived out his last days like he wanted, and I'm sure Mertil took care of him. I don't think the Animorphs stayed entirely away. I can bet, as I said above, that Cassie would probably check up on them and help make Ganfinilan comfortable when he got too sick to take care of himself.
Title: Re: Group Re-Read: #40 The Other
Post by: Chad32 on November 06, 2010, 11:43:13 PM
I would expect Cassie to do something to help Gafinilan through his pain, though I haven't given it much thought. I also hope Marco made good on his word and helped Myrtil, though both of those guys were forgotten after book 40.
Title: Re: Group Re-Read: #40 The Other
Post by: Semeir-Cooraf-Armaheen on November 21, 2010, 04:11:17 PM
I did end up writing a fic on it. http://animorphsforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=6876.0
Title: Re: Group Re-Read: #40 The Other
Post by: SkyMorpher on October 12, 2011, 02:08:11 PM
I'm surprised that this end of the fandom didn't bring up what always came up over on LJ during our re-reads....we went through the books twice and the "were they gay Andalites?" came up both times lol. Ask Jen. I'm a little surprised it wasn't discussed over here.

Anyway, I do wish they'd had Mertil come back near the end of the series, somehow or other.

Also, my mom watched Unsolved Mysteries all the time when it was on, so I can hear Robert Stack's voice and the theme music every time I read that scene.
Title: Re: Group Re-Read: #40 The Other
Post by: Chad32 on October 16, 2011, 10:04:22 AM
I don't consider someone gay unless it's stated outright that they are. As far as I'm concerned, they're just shorms. Some people go overboard with this idea, and say any guys that spend most of their time together must be gay.
Title: Re: Group Re-Read: #40 The Other
Post by: AniDragon on October 16, 2011, 11:04:30 AM
I think they could be. I think it's less that people go overboard with the idea (although some people do), and more just about the chemistry between the characters. Like these two, for example. Gafinilan can hear Mertil's thought-speech voice from anywhere on the same planet. That seems a little romantic to me, tbh.

And let's face it, if one of them was female, EVERYONE would be saying that their relationship was romantic, not just the yaoi fans.

I dunno, for me, I ignore gender altogether in fandom, unless the character is "officially straight" or "officially gay", which is quite rare anyway. I mean, I read this one manga series where everyone is hinted at being gay, and yet my favourite pairing is straight. Just the way my mind works, I guess.

But anyway, tangeant. Gafinilan and Mertil: Could be either romantic or platonic. I lean on the side of romantic, but have nothing against people interpretting it as platonic.