Richard's Animorphs Forum
RAF Section => Suggestions / Feedback & Issues => Topic started by: adamjared on October 17, 2009, 06:22:50 PM
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Ok i know that we have said that to every new member who has come to RAF lately, but frankly, its getting quite annoying.
Most of the members on this forum are mature people, which is good. But sometimes our maturity fails to show when we start asking people to "put their sanity in a jar" or telling them that "a seal will be around shortly to collect yours."
I understand that some people enjoy the roleplay that many of you are trying to do (seals, realmwalkers, etc.), but when a member comes here wanting a mature discussion about Animorphs/gone/other things, sometimes that may turn them away. I don't want new members coming here thinking we are actually nuts.
One of my classmates joined this forum a while ago. They wanted to talk things like x-box and video games (in the media board), among other things. I recommended that they post an introduction thread (like the good little member I am :) ). So, they did, and they did not understand some of the welcome they got. They asked me "what's the significance of the green bottle?" that someone had posted. SO when I explained what it was for, they were just like: "Oooook..." When I asked them the next week about why they haven't posted anything, they said that they didn't really want to get involved with a forum for little kids.
Now I know, most people that come here don't think that. They may actually enjoy the jokes you guys make. But there are a few people, like my class friend, who don't.
I'm basically suggesting that we move all the "Role Playing Introduction" stuff to the actual "Role Playing Board," and leave the actual introduction thread for mature, realistic introductions. Then, if people like the roleplaying, they can also post an introduction in the RP intro board or what have you.
Just a little thing i've observed, that's all.
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Yeah, that is a valid point.
Maybe, at the very least, we need to pay more attention to the actual introductory post? Like, if the person posts "Hey, I like Animorphs, and I'm here to discuss Animorphs and to be generally intelligent and such," then maybe we should treat them with more seriousness than someone who posts "Hai, guys, I'm a pink rainbow unicorn Andalite!" Bit of an extreme example there, but you get my point.
Basically, I think we can judge the difference between someone who is here for serious discussion of the Animorphs series, and someone who is here for the fun of it, and act accordingly. As long as we spot the serious people and treat them with the accorded decorum, then I see no reason not to treat our fellow crazies with, well, our special brand of craziness.
That's a good point, though, and I appreciate you bringing it up. It never even occurred to me before that our crazy shenanigans might actually be turning people away from RAF. :'(
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I think that's a valid point Adam, but if the Intro thread doesn't scare hiim off, eventually everything else will if he can't take those kinds of jokes.
I think we should let everyone be who they are, If you have a problem with the way people are behaving, you should bring it up with the mods. Not create a thread designed to berate others.
Though I understand your point and sympathize, if someone bases the forum on just the first impression, then they probably shouldn't be here.
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i feel like you're picking out people. i dont think this should be posted in a thread. it's asking for arguements.
if people come to the board and cant accept who someone is in an intro thread, how are they going to talk to them in any other thread or in chat? i think we should let it be and not change anything.
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I can understand members being confused by the in-jokes, but I hardly see that as a reason to censor our member's free will. The jokes about leaving sanity at the door are not against forum rules and they don't offend anybody. In fact it's pretty obvious that most newcomers like the welcomes they receive. I don't see any reason why the system needs to change to accommodate one person who didn't want to join in, RAF's not for everyone.
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I know you mean well, Adam, and please don't get mad at me, but I personally am insulted by this. Saying as I do most of the "sanity collecting" and all, I feel like you're calling me immature, saying as you pointed out about the Seal. I think that it's their problem if they don't get the sanity things. Don't forget, you say you're an Ellimist, a character out of kids book series. Are you going to change that now because of what one person said?
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please remember to keep this argument civil
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i feel like you're picking out people. i dont think this should be posted in a thread. it's asking for arguements.
if people come to the board and cant accept who someone is in an intro thread, how are they going to talk to them in any other thread or in chat? i think we should let it be and not change anything.
I 100% agree with this. The majority of people on this forum are not children, and I've never seen anyone respond negatively to that kind of comment. As a matter of fact, most people respond by saying that they've already lost their sanity. I feel that it was very immature to start a thread that picks on a member, instead of approaching them directly or taking it to a mod.
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I feel that it was very immature to start a thread that picks on a member, instead of approaching them directly or taking it to a mod.
I don't think he was picking on a specific member. It's the general atmosphere he was referring to.
All those who feel personally offended; don't.
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Okay, a lot of you have pointed out that nobody has ever complained about the welcome they've received in the Intro boards, and that isn't really a fair point to make, because the people who feel insulted by it don't usually stick around long enough to complain. Just felt like I should point that out.
Please note that I'm not, in any way, saying that we should crack down on all our silliness and be totally no-fun Nazis. That would utterly annihilate all that is RAF, and it would ruin exactly what makes this site so beautiful.
But you guys have to admit that the rest of RAF isn't even close to being as silly as our intro threads usually tend to be. We've had very serious discussions about Animorphs, for example, and in the media boards I've seen some very intellectual discourse. What I'm saying, and I think what Adam was trying to say as well, is that we should try to show our true selves, so that people will know what they're getting into when they first see the intro threads.
Now, for some of us that means being crazy, and I think that should be perfectly allowed and even encouraged. Nobody should have to hide who they are in hopes of enticing someone who would be scared off at the first hint of insanity anyway.
However, what often happens (and, I'll admit, I've done this too, many times) is that everyone else gets swept up in the silliness, and we all play along and act psycho-crazy. And, for some of us, at least, this is actually a bit counter to our usual character. I'm as crazy as anyone here, I know, but I can be serious (well, occasionally) as well. So people might get scared away from RAF, who would have actually enjoyed our slightly-serious side, because that's the side of RAF that is never seen in introductory threads (or at least, very very rarely).
All I'm saying is that RAF has something for everyone, so why do we only ever show newcomers one trait?
However, while I agree with some of the points that Adam made, I also agree with everyone who has pointed out that that first post was phrased very hurtfully to certain members. Yes, it's an issue that needs consideration, and yes, I'm glad you brought it to our attention, but it could really have been phrased a lot more gently. Please, just be careful when you're treading in delicate territory, okay?
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I feel that it was very immature to start a thread that picks on a member, instead of approaching them directly or taking it to a mod.
I don't think he was picking on a specific member. It's the general atmosphere he was referring to.
All those who feel personally offended; don't.
Why shouldn't they? This very obviously singles out the two or three people who keep this joke running in the intro threads, so maybe it's not a particular member, but a few members. If Adam has a problem with people being silly in those threads, then he should have said that. He's obviously picking on a specific group of members, and that's not cool. Since when has it been okay to do that to anyone on here?
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I know you mean well, Adam, and please don't get mad at me, but I personally am insulted by this. Saying as I do most of the "sanity collecting" and all, I feel like you're calling me immature, saying as you pointed out about the Seal. I think that it's their problem if they don't get the sanity things. Don't forget, you say you're an Ellimist, a character out of kids book series. Are you going to change that now because of what one person said?
I'm sorry Seal, I didn't mean to pick on anyone. I was just using your role-play species as an example of the types of role-play that happens on RAF. Sorry that I insulted you, and please understand that I didn't mean to do that in any way! And I never meant to call you immature, i was just referring to the atmosphere, like Richard said. I think you are actually very mature in any discussion I've had with you.
I feel that it was very immature to start a thread that picks on a member, instead of approaching them directly or taking it to a mod.
I don't think he was picking on a specific member. It's the general atmosphere he was referring to.
All those who feel personally offended; don't.
Why shouldn't they? This very obviously singles out the two or three people who keep this joke running in the intro threads, so maybe it's not a particular member, but a few members. If Adam has a problem with people being silly in those threads, then he should have said that. He's obviously picking on a specific group of members, and that's not cool. Since when has it been okay to do that to anyone on here?
OK, Jess, I know you may not like me, for many reasons, but please don't go twisting my words to make it sound like I'm being very rude and inconsiderate to my fellow members. I care about all of the members, including any new or future members that may be turned away by this issue.
please remember to keep this argument civil
Exactly.
I'm not demanding that this be changed, I'm just proposing an idea to the whole forum, because some other members may feel the same way.
And while some of you were accusing me of purposely offending and picking on other members, you are doing just the same to me. RAF is an open forum, and while Richard owns it, and whatever he says goes, we should still be able to express our opinions, and not be judged.
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If someone you didn't know said this, instead of your friend, would you feel the same way?
If someone doesn't feel comfortable with staying at the forum because they think the people are immature, whatever that's their choice. Who cares?
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If someone you didn't know said this, instead of your friend, would you feel the same way?
If someone doesn't feel comfortable with staying at the forum because they think the people are immature, whatever that's their choice. Who cares?
I care, Kelly. They are other members, even if I don't know them.
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Well I think your example is kinda unfair Adam. Only people who like animorphs are crazy enough to get our members and the people who are here and don't like animorphs probably haven't read it or are just that awesome.
And who's to say he just didnt wanna join an animorphs forum to talk about video games and stuff? Maybe he didnt wanna hurt your feelings and just didnt wanna join RAF?
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The thing (the taboo against discussing religion or politics) is a part of a certain modern tendency to avoid things because they lead to warmth; whereas, obviousy, we ought, even in a social sense, to seek those things specially. The warmth of the discussion is as much a part of hospitality as the warmth of the fire.
--G. K. Chesterton, Appreciations and Criticisms of the Works of Charles Dickens: "Hard Times"
I don't expect RAF's special brand of warmth to appeal to everyone. It is, by fate, design, or the grace of God, a small community. It could become larger by becoming less personal, but in being less personal it would be less itself. The fact that not everyone fits in is the price we pay for our community. I may be a romantic, but I take the greatest pleasure in the small things, the things I can most love, those I posses and by which I am possessed. For me, that price is not too high.
But, there is something else I feel I must address. I get the strong sense that when you say "immaturity" you really (if unconsciously) mean "imagination" and by "maturity" mean (if unconsciously) "rationality." I see no reason nor feel no rhyme why reason is necessarily mature or maturity is necessarily rational. To illustrate this, I would like to tell a story.
There was once a bulletin-board forum dedicated to a children's sci-fi/fantasy series, very much like RAF. The exact name isn't as important as the fact that one day the creator decided he needed to become more mature. So, he shut down the site with a terse note, locked the other administrators out, and disappeared.
I look down on myself for having the site. Truly was a disgrace. I'd say Digimon's on the same level as Pokemon. The anime I know that are acceptable for my age (17) are Gundam and Bleach.
And no hope for a return.
...
I outgrew this anime over a year ago. And I look down on you old people still hanging in here.
Was that mature? To raze a community, to sacrifice something for which he had worked so hard on the altar of supposed "maturity?" To leave without allowing anyone to take his place?
True story. (http://withthewill.net/index.php?topic=649.60)
Adam, you're not like that. But, I worry that you're starting to head down that path. I'm sorry I can't put this more gently, but please, don't wish you were boring. This world is far too full of dullness for that.
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OK, Jess, I know you may not like me, for many reasons, but please don't go twisting my words to make it sound like I'm being very rude and inconsiderate to my fellow members. I care about all of the members, including any new or future members that may be turned away by this issue.
And while some of you were accusing me of purposely offending and picking on other members, you are doing just the same to me. RAF is an open forum, and while Richard owns it, and whatever he says goes, we should still be able to express our opinions, and not be judged.
I've primarily responded to you in a PM, because I don't find it fair for people to drag any sort of drama out into the forum. :)
No matter who had posted that thread, I would have responded the way I did. I in no way twisted your words, and I in no way personally attacked you. I'm sorry if you feel that way, but I don't see how my response does that. And please realize, no one is picking on you, they're merely saying that they don't think it's fair that you're being allowed to negatively single out a small group of other members.
I've said my piece, and will be making my way away from this thread now. :)
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ew, drama. this is why I decided not to say anything i this thread. While im not gonna announce which side I am on I can see where both sides have some points. Adam raised some valid points but if somebody takes our silliness too seriously than they shouldn't be on here in the first place. It's our brand of fun that makes us different from most forums *cough*AFF*cough*.
All of you who oppose Adam also have a point but you're acting a little overly sensitive. I highly doubt he was trying to personally attack anybody. He was just suggesting that you guys mellow out a bit, once the new guys become more used to RAF, then it's ok to lock them in a dark room with Seal so that she can do the, very painful, procedure of ripping their sanity out via the top of their heads. As far as I can tell, no personal attacks were made whatsoever, but maybe that's cuz im trying to find the good in both sides(and i know exactly where that got me last time i tried that)
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I never wanted this to turn into an argument. We should be allowed to state our opinions as long as they aren't purposefully bashing or flaming someone/something. Adam stated his points fairly and didn't flame, though it was mildly insulting to some.
Anyway, I think we should just agree to disagree and forget about this. True, we can show both sides, and we might make certain members think we're to immature, but sometimes, to much RAFdrama can come from such little things. Don't forget, we all have a right to what we say, so I think we should just attempt to be a little more mature and move on without getting angry at each other.
That's just my humble opinion. :)
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+1 Horsie-kun
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Mehh as far as I'm concerned are random in-jokes are what makes RAF RAF... Its the reason why i stayed... remember i only came to steal the e-books... what made me stay was the feeling of community and the way when your posting you forget about your RL problems.
take away the jokes or over moderate people to be mature and people will leave because of that more than our immature atmosphere..... i can almost guarantee that...
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this thread is obviously singling out those in the intro threads. (seal, cloaky, etc.)
maybe we all could afford to pay a bit more attention to the intro threads; seeing the SAME exact thing every time isn't fun. it seems like we're not paying as close attention to the person as to the intro thread itself.
if that's what ellimist meant, then i agree. but to completely be taking away the fun, that's just not right.
each of our members having their own quirks is what makes RAF what it is; a fantastic community with unique people. :goom:
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maybe we all could afford to pay a bit more attention to the intro threads; seeing the SAME exact thing every time isn't fun. it seems like we're not paying as close attention to the person as to the intro thread itself.
I agree, the same thing is said in every Intro thread. I was thinking earlier:
RAF isn't RAF without the silly-ness. But there is a point that we have to reach a maturity because we want as many RAFians to join, even if they only want to participate in the Media Threads.. We don't wanna scare away them before they get a chance to enjoy the forum
Remember: I haven't read Animorphs yet, but I'm still a fairly active participant in this forum.
People wanna feel they are welcomed, but some people (even i) are not big Role-players.. and can feel intimidated that they may have to role play to be a member or "give away there sanity" to be liked by the people of the forum.
The people who start an Intro thread are new and don't know that you get caught up in RAF and loose your sanity slowly. :P It doesn't mean they have to leave their sanity right there and then right?
I feel both sides of this issue were being attacked, but i also think Neither Adam, or his opposition were personally ATTACKING someone.. they were expressing their concern for this forum.
Once again i was thinking: maybe we should have Ambassadors of Role-playing who introduce themselves in the intro threads and let our newcomers know that there is an Animorphs Role-play and general role-play to take part of if they are interested.. but we should tone down our excitement and not scare of our pray..
Muhahaha :P
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So what's to become of this? What is the goal? So we assign an ambassador. So some of us agree to tone down the RP rhetoric.
What happens when this thread is forgotten, and the RP silliness returns, eh?
What happens if we get caught up in it again, hmmm?
Nothing. No one's going to repremand anyone for being themselves. No change will really come of this, so there's no reason to continue carrying on like this.
I've said my piece earlier. We greet newbies as ourselves, we show them who we are at the start. If they can't handle that, if they can't push past that, then that's with them. If they're going to label us as weirdos and not be bothered, than I say we don't need them here, judging us for being ourselves.
Even if being ourselves is whacky or weird.
We show them who we are. If they can't take it, it's their choice to leave.
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The thing that had really make me worry in the start, was when we wanted ideas for the RAF Shirt. we were looking for short peices of text to put under the logo on the front.
Some people suggested things like: "<join us>" and "<hope>". Some people liked these ideas, but then some one suggested "Leave your Sanity at the Door" or something to that effect. Apparently that was the saying that the people in that thread wanted, because that's what apparently represents RAF the most. That got me worried.
I agree that what makes us different from the other animorphs forums, is our diverse span of personalities and traits, provided by our members. But I don't look forward to RAF being called the "Insane Animorphs Forum" by the Animorphs Community.
I don't remember who, or which intro thread it was in, but I recall that there was one member who did not want to "give up their sanity." People said things similar to "But you have to give up your sanity!" and "It's a requirement of the forum!" I haven't seen things like that said since, but I certainly hope that this "Lack of Sanity" isn't pushed on new members.
I agree that this problem will probably not go away ever, even if we try and find a solution. But I just wanted to make sure that this was made known so that in case someone else felt pressured, bombarded, or something similar, it won't be the first time, and maybe we could have a solution ready if it happens again, that's all.
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Hi! *waves and grins amiably*
Whether or not anybody remembers the benignly silly star formerly (and currently) known as Este, I still have two or three cents to add. :)
I propose the following hypothesis for the analysis of everybody here:
We're taking this all just a wee bit more seriously than is perfectly necessary.
Valid points have been made by all sides. Opinions have been expressed. Anybody who has read the thread is aware of these points, opinions, and such.
So... is there any room here for agree-to-disagree?
Any room for I'll-let-you-collect-sanities-to-sell-on-the-black-market-if-you-just-do-it-while-I'm-not-looking? No? Pity. :P
How's this, then: Be discerning about it, folks. Sure, offer the in-joke to anybody you like, but also take their intro seriously. Give them a chance to see a little craziness, but show that you're willing to find them just as interesting as you want them to find you. Be easy on the newbies. They're newbies, and the wide world of RAF can be a scary place.
Animorphs fans are few and far between in the real world, and forums suited to them are even fewer online.
Yeah, it's a fine and dandy thing to gently let them weed themselves out, and the result is that most members of RAF are very well suited to RAFian weirdness. For the most part, nobody really bats an eye anymore at the presence of seals, icecube/dragons, nothlit dinosaurs, and sentient stars on the forum. Nobody minds Ellimists and Planeswalkers, once they've been here awhile and met the people who assume those personae.
For a newbie, though, that can be a smidge hard to stomach.
So:
1. Better to have them figure out early on that HEY GUESS WHAT, we like to have fun here. They don't have to act uptight unless they really are uptight, because we accept whatever craziness they have to offer (and then some).
2. That being said, when we tweak their brains, let's remember that they do HAVE brains. Actually comment on their intro post, okey? Pleeeeeease? For me? *huge eyes of adowability*
Maybe I'm a pacifist stellar dweeb, but I'm YOUR pacifist stellar dweeb. Can we split the difference? Just... y'know... tact.
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yeah, i don't think being too rough on the newbies is a good idea.
they're fragile. ;D
however, i haven't seen too many turned away from RAF (based on the newbie -> now-active member ratio) because of this so-called 'insanity'.
it isn't always my cup of tea (says the armored-goomba ::)), but i'm not going to ruin anybody else's by spoiling the fun.
no harm, no foul.
as i said before, it would be nice to acknowledge the new member a tad more by reading and responding to what they post.
:goom:
edit: i also agree with estel, if a person can deal with reading about yeerks and andalites, they can deal with seals and iceblocks)
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Or planeswalkers!
The sparking mana flared my the finger tips stealing the sanity of gewm and concealing it safely in the green clearwater goblet of mirrodin.
Erm, sorry.
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Hahaha, that was beautiful. :)
Thanks everybody for being open-minded and level-headed on this. :)
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lol sorry, I figured we could use some lightheartedness here.
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anybody mind if i lock this thread now? it seems to be resolved.
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Not at all, I move that we lock this thread.
Any seconds?
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Okay, I know I'm a bit late to the diner-party, but at least I showed up? :P
Now, a few things before I forget:
Richard, man, I was really disapointed in your "All those who are offended; don't" comment, man. :( Telling someone who IS offended not to be, is kinda... Unmodly. And you're an ADMIN. :(
Adam, man, you know I like you, I consider you a friend... But, honestly, dude, chill-out with the trying-to-change-RAF stuff, mm'kay. dude?
I understand that at one point in time you were an Admin of this (Or the former) site. And I why you're not now is none of my business. Never been told, asked once... However, you're not an Admin, nor Mod, now. So, these kind of threads... Well, they're generally best accepted when posted by an Admin/Mod. So, mayhap next time just PM a Mod?
Goom; Jess; Russell; Estelore; Seal; any whom I've forgotten: Excellent posts.
As for the topic on hand:
Leave Your Sanity At The Door:
I like this expression, and would certainly, if monetarily able, buy the T-shirt with this printed on it.
The Intro Threads are just a fact of RAF. And a few people have said that the rest of RAF isn't really quite that silly... Now, maybe I frequent different parts of RAF than most people, but, I do know that the parts I DO frequent are QUITE silly indeed! And I enjoy it. The insanity keeps me sane in a very peculiar way.
And, I do belive we get enough seriousness in the Intro Threads. For instance The Raevyn's intro, we've been discussing E. A. Poe in there. And not on a crazy-insanity-level. Yes, there was that, but, as we've stated, that seems to be in all the Intro's.
If we were to be disallowed to be silly/crazy/insane in the Intro's, then it would really just be misguiding the "Newbies" when they start to frequent the other parts of the board.
Not to mention, it seems, to me anyway, that it's working quite well. I mean, like Goom said, newbie -> Frequent User ratio seems fine by me! :)
Now, if a newcomer says something like "I don't want to give up my sanity" or "Ummm, are y'all fracken crazy?! I'm outie!"
then maybe we sent that newbie a PM, or post in their thread that it's just a game, and there's no harm intended.
Anyway, my laptop's going dead, peace, y'all!
*EDIT* Aw, sorry, Goom, didn't see that post, guess you made it while I was typing, fine by me, I guess.
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done. :lock:
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I agree that this thread should be locked.
All I wanted to do is make all of this known, so other members could be a little more careful when asking for newcomers' sanity. :)
And just to be clear, I still have my sanity! Who's going to come take it from me? ;D MUAHAHA