Richard's Animorphs Forum
Animorphs Section => Animorphs Forum Classic => Topic started by: 2005004219 on October 08, 2009, 10:27:53 AM
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Some yeerks joined the yeerk peace movement, despite their situation. They risked their lives from their superiors to befriend even help the animorphs who were willing to murder their helpless brethen in yeerk pools. Despite their upbringing in a rigid, strict and dangerous enviroment ( a boss that will kill you for displeasing him and other trivial reasons) and propaganda, they have the courage to go against society and their way of life to befriend their hosts even help some involuntary host escape at the risk of death or help the animorphs who are willing to commit mass killings just to win. The animorphs have done a lot of things that are inhumane when their are other alternatives available in scenarios that will end in less casualties (death) or no casualties at all. Instead they only see the yeerks as obstacles to be destroyed to reach their goals which are selfish in a way ex. they were willing to kill any witnesses even their own species, rachel could have save her cousin saddler with a bit of help from the right people without compromising their own securities
(kidnap his body, get him to morph another human body or his own modified dna and hide him at the chees house), When freeing controllers they could have stolen or made a portable kandrona storage to place their prisoners (captured yeerks) instead of starving them or trick the yeerks into leaving their host bodies ( a hologram made by the chee to make the contollers think they have been rescued to get them to go into the prison that will hold them. They could have concentrate efforts on helping the taxons who lead a pathetic life. But they did none of that. They don't care about the fact that their enemies the yeerks have their own lives, families, even future. and that they are not all evil and are merely pawns power hungry yeerks like visser 3 of crayak in his sick game enough to consider that they can't just end their lives as if they weren't human. They didn't even give a damn about the alien controllers, probably mostly because they weren't human and even enjoy causing them pain and remain apathetic mostly when they kill.
Should they not make the effort of lessening the casualties. Marco cares only about getting results, in fact he threw away qualities that made him human or winning he doesn't even try to lessen the casualties or care about the lives and well being about the hosts he kills, the future he destroys, for them, all to reach his goal, They could have found another alternative of winning with out causing any more harm than necessary to their enemies, seeing as their not all bad. They could have lessen casualties if they make an effort without compromising their efficiency in leading a guerilla war against the yeerks. They didn't need to kill of all those defenseless yeerks in the yeerk pool when they are doing a pool raid, with the chees help they could find a way to kidnap the yeerks before destroying the yeerk pool thus crippling the invasion with minimal bloodshed. They could be ruthless, cunning and intelligent to defend their planet, but that doesn't mean they have to stop being human or stop caring for the well being of their species as well as the invading party or consider survival of the fittest philosophy as their only choice. If they use their resources to fight their enemies to defend themselves, coordinate with sincere yeerks that are part of the peace movement like
aftran and try to understand even help the taxons, yeerks , hork bajir maybe even try to make peace or win with causing minimal blood shed, instead of focussing their whole attention on winning at all costs and the whole survival of the fittest philosophy. maybe the story would have ended differently, they could try to convince the yeerks that their is a better way and they don't have to listen to whoever is in favor of them continuing the conquest. Hell they could even get a way to stop visser 3 from killing his poor minions, after all if the yeerks are willing to go against their culture and way of life for a human and risk their own lives as well to help the involuntary host escape from time to time, the story might have ended a bit better. By following the philosophy of eat or be eaten instead of making a effort to find another way they are playing Crayak's game
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I think I agree with what you say, but it's hard to read an almost solid block of text. Paragraphs are your friends!
I think more could have been done with the Peace Movement, and we should give them their due, for having a lot of strength and courage.
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Everything you say is true, 2003004219, but I think some of that was the point of the book, you know?
The whole point was that the bad guys are not always bad, and the good guys aren't always good. The books force you to question everything you know about right and wrong, and that's part of the message that they're trying to send, is that right and wrong are not always just stark black and white choices.
Keep in mind how young the Animorphs were. Too young to be thrust into war without it damaging their psyches and, especially, their consciences. At the point when they learned that Hork-Bajir were actual people, not just enemies, for example, they had already killed a bunch of them. And it was easier to just 'dehumanize' them, and keep killing them as if nothing had changed, than to admit to themselves that they had murdered innocent people.
Yes, I believe that more should have been done with the Peace Movement. Yes, I agree that the Peace Movement was composed of strong and courageous people who were heroically able to defy pretty much everything that they were. But I can also see why the Animorphs tried to pretend like the Peace Movement didn't exist. It's just so much easier to see your enemies as all-evil, than to try to make exceptions for the ones you know are not.
I do think you're wrong about one thing, though. You act as though it would have been just as easy to take hostages as to kill, in every case. I think that, if the Animorphs had been so determined to spare their enemies (translation: if Cassie had been the leader rather than Jake), then they would have lost the war. No doubt in my mind about that. Because, in about nine cases out of ten, it was simply not feasible to take hostages. In nine cases out of ten, they had no choice but to either kill the Yeerks, or simply allow them to go on doing what they're doing. There were a handful of situations where they could have taken hostages, and in those cases, perhaps they should have. But they could not have fought a bloodless war. That was simply impossible, especially when they were already so hopelessly outmatched by the Yeerks anyway.
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what about destroying the yeerk pool while evacuating the majority of the hostless yeerks throught trickery,deception and impersonation (visser one or visser 3) and turning the base defense systems, with the help of the chee only on the hosted yeerks as a diversion, to cripple them without any heavy losses. There are a lot more yeerks on the pool than host guarding it.
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And what would they have done with the Yeerks they managed to evacuate? They didn't know how to build a Kandrona (or they would have made one before rescuing Aftran in #29), and there would have been far too many Yeerks to manage making them all into nothlits before their three day limit ran out. They would have had to make them into nothlits in small groups, so they could watch over them all, or else some of the not-so-wonderful Yeerks could have easily escaped with the morphing power. And there were thousands of Yeerks in the Yeerk pool. It just wasn't feasible.
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I'm too lazy to write out your whole name, so I'll just call you 200. That's okay, right?
200, I'm seriously not going to read that until you edit it with paragraphs. Blocks of text hurt my eyes. Eh, sorry to interupt any conversation that may have been taking place.
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Erek made a kandrona generator for his Yeerk, so I think they can make another for Yeerks outside of a Chee's head. That wouldn't be hard, or at least shouldn't be. Though it's never really explained, but just sort of handwaved and never ever mentioned again.
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For me, the Peace Movement represents the German resistants during the WW2, don't you think?
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And by that you mean...?
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Well, the Germans also had propaganda, and no choice than to follow the movement, but some people decided to become resistants... Same as the Peace Movement for the Yeerks.
I didn't know I had to explain ^^'
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Ok. I understand.
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Erek made a kandrona generator for his Yeerk, so I think they can make another for Yeerks outside of a Chee's head. That wouldn't be hard, or at least shouldn't be. Though it's never really explained, but just sort of handwaved and never ever mentioned again.
This is a good point. Huh, I wonder why they didn't just do that, then? Maybe, the one inside his head had to be powered by his own internal power source, so he couldn't construct more Kandrona generators than his power supply could handle?
For me, the Peace Movement represents the German resistants during the WW2, don't you think?
That's an interesting comparison. I wonder if that was intentional?
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For me, the Peace Movement represents the German resistants during the WW2, don't you think?
I don't know. Maybe we can ask her.
That's an interesting comparison. I wonder if that was intentional?
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Maybe they can't make more power sources for themselves. Must be bad when one starts to wear out, though. If they can't then the Chee aren't eternal.
But you know, we probably aren't supposed to think about that stuff too hard. I'm not saying they could make another Chee, but hopefully they can repair and reconstruct everything they need to continue operating.
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Again, the age issue comes up. A lot of issues they dealt with were shoved in their faces. They were young teenagers put into stressful situations and only had MINUTES to have answers. They didn't have hours of time to brainstorm.
Also, being in such high stress locations, they had adrenaline pumping through their systems. It's difficult to think peace when you have a massive amount of horomones coursing through your veins.
In a lot of situations the Animorphs were put in, it was fight or flight. Plans on the fly, they didn't have time to set up designated hiding areas for hostages or plotting routes.
Also, the Yeerks cleaned up incident areas quick. They got rid of the evidence even quicker. After a big battle, the Animorphs had to exit quickly and demorph. They couldn't gather human hostages, and carry them to safety without demorphing and remorphing; let alone get out of there in time for the clean up crews and back up Bug Fighters.
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Why the greater focus on war than on peace? Simple.
The series would not have been as fun to read if there were significantly fewer battles (or none at all). This explains why there are fewer peace games than war games. Although I agree that the peace movement in general could have been a bit more prominently featured in the series; but some of the "fine line between good and evil" stuff just had to take back seat to good ol' fashioned alien butt-kicking.
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by stealing portable kandronas or making one with the chee it should be easy then destroy the supplies of the enemy it may , make them surrender, to stay alive. For the yeerks with hosts.
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by stealing portable kandronas or making one with the chee it should be easy then destroy the supplies of the enemy it may , make them surrender, to stay alive. For the yeerks with hosts.
That's actually not a bad idea. In fact, that's what they really should have done in book 7 (since they didn't know the Chee at that point, though, instead of destroying the Kandrona and building a new one, they should have just tried to steal it instead). That one's probably just a case of "Oh, we didn't think of that . . . " To be honest, there's actually a lot of "OWDTOT" in Animorphs.
One teeny loophole in your plan, though. In order to inform the Yeerks that you hold the key to their salvation, you would have to make contact with them to spread the message. And, seriously, it's not like they're going to believe anyone who says, <Hey, we're the Andalite bandits, and we built a super deluxe Kandrona spa just for you! Because we just love Yeerks so much! So, just give yourselves up to us, and we won't hurt you. Cross our hearts. ;)> Any rational Yeerk would go, "How stupid do they think we are?" And then, to prove their good intent, the Animorphs would have to pretty much show the Yeerks the Kandrona to get the Yeerks to believe them, and then, at that point, the Yeerks will just say, "We'll take that, thank you," and then simply overpower them in order to take the Kandrona, rather than surrendering to them.
So, basically, it's a good plan, except for the teeny detail that it wouldn't work. If you could find a way to make that plan work, hey, I say you should write a fanfiction of it!
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Again there's the problem of:
How do you expect a tiger, gorilla, elephant, wolf, hawk, and Andalite to transport said Kandrona without being caught by either the cops, or the Yeerks.
Where would they store such a Kandrona. As I recall, the Kandrona isn't exactly small:
"How big is a Kandrona?" Jake wondered. <It would depend on how many pools it had to
support. It might be as large as Cassie's barn. It might be the size of one of your human cars.>
If it's a mini sun, it'll most likely emit light rays as well, how would they hide that effectively?
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yes but didnt Marcos mom have a portable Kandrona in the first/second book she is introduced? As i recall it was the size of a large suitcase. :-\
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That's a portable one, for single use of a small basin. They're talking about powering their own pool for numerous nice Yeerks.
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by stealing portable kandronas or making one with the chee it should be easy then destroy the supplies of the enemy it may , make them surrender, to stay alive. For the yeerks with hosts.
Portable Kandronas aren't so easy to come by. Only the high-powered Yeerks had them.
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at the point the majority of the helpless yeerks in the pool without host would have been captured beyond the help of the ones with host, leaving them few in number, and by that time a way of detecting contollers would be made, a miniature device to detect kandrona energy they could replace the military and president controllers with yeerk peace movement or yeerk morphs by any members or allies of the animorphs, the yeerks in the peace movement would agree as a alternative to destroying the yeerk pool killing 100,000s of them in the scenario. The chee would be great allies, they could have the know how in consructing a kandrona generator, if that is not possible the animorphs could find the nearest alien species to barter for materials for making a kandrona generator, the animorphs could leave as a important ranks of the yeerk empire and peace movement hosts with peace movement yeerks, develope a code for hosts and the animorphs to communicate with yeerk peace movement yeerks so that they would get in the right host.
by then there are means to detect who has yeerks in the body they could modify the filters in to small devices, miniature x ray machine, miniature kandrona energy senses,with the chees help and ax's.
Make a deal with the goverment and miltary by then who should be either free or yeerk peace control so that the a group of trusted soldiers and officials would help in hiding the yeerk holding pool, and offer soldiers to defeat the yeerks in exchange they will get alien technology and can used the friendly or captured yeerks to understand them, gain higher intelligence, learn faster and the water filter benefits to supply a endless supply of fresh water for third world countries the hippies, tree huggers and animal activists may be kind enough to understand yeerks and go along with the risky but beneficial plan of limited bloodshed in defeating the enemy. If the animorphs can give sensible priorities to their morals like they should focus more on killing as least as possible issues than it is wrong to morph "sentient creatures".
They could morph the yeerks and gather knowledge and skills from other people like scientists, politicians, military,business man, capitalists,lawyers and more to blend in and use their resources around them to their advantage. and other useful information they could gain to have new insights and planning skills to learn assuming that these people would know of the invasion and be accepting, which by then they are free or have been registerd to the yeerks as controlled but withe recruits morphing yeerks or free or under the yeerk peace movement. Even better the yeerk prison should be in another country free of yeerks. While this is going on the animorphs could apply their knowledge with help from the military or gov't start recruiting soldiers in other countries secretly and finance their operations to make beam weapons dracon beams and other useful devices in a factory of war with ax's help it could happen.
Getting the materials to build the kandrona ray is one of the hardest part but if the yeerks use infiltration to win, why shouldn't humans . They could steal a ship from the yeerks or some other way to get to the alien species who can provide them with materials for the plan, fake a crash, and get out with the materials or ask advice from the chee or yeerk peace on how to acquire them. by this phase the yeerks would think the miltary and gov't is under their controll and infiltration but in fact it is the other way around. the yeerks would be driven out of the gov'ts and miltary heads imprison with portable kandrona rays, The yeerk will be replace by other peaceful yeerks or the recuits in morphs or other soldiers. The yeerk prison would of course be built in another country far from the interests of yeerks. Once it is finished by then their should be a sizable army, the yeerks would be infiltrated already ready for the next phase.
The chee should gather biological data on the yeerks, hork bajir , taxons. so chemicals can be used to make effective sleeping gas them knocking them out, a drug should be made to make the yeerks susceptible to hypnotism or brain washing to get them out of the host, it will be helpful for some reasons.
1. The 3 days of waiting would be shorten.
2. They could imprison the yeerk instead of killing it , and get useful information.
The chee could help turn or sabotage the defenses of the yeerk base or turn it on the yeerks. cut of communications to the empire and outside help.
The next phase is to capture visser three or other high ranking yeerks should be captured their hosts infested with axilliary animorphs yeerks, capture as many controllers as possible, replace them with the yeerk peace yeerks and the other recruits to infiltrate the yeerk base. then have visser three order that the majority of the yeerks without host have to be transfer and put on a ship., hold a meeting with the army at a huge room laced with dracon beams defenses and hunter robots, and sleeping gas. The chee would cooperate as the traps are mostly non lethal and modified. The army and the recruits could fight guards guarding the yeerk pool , free the hosts and give them weapons the with the animorph already in the ship with the helpless yerks, the animorphs would transport the majority of the yeerks into the yeerk prison in another country, mean while the traps are set on the majority of the yeerks army incapacitating them and the entrances to important rooms like armory are sealed of with bombs creating a barrier of rocks that no one can get into for a long while without any way of calling for help. with the majority of the yeerks captured the campaign against earth is crippled, the remaing yeerks with hosts are too few and scattered to offer any real fight, so their alternative is to surrender. As a bonus before the scenario happens the animorphs could further weaken the yeerks by helping the taxons by some means to convincethem to swith sides.
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Everyone that mentions the Chee's involvement in this need to think really realyl hard. the Chee REFUSE outright to do anything physically that will even indirectly cause harm to another living creature. Except for 2 occasions the most they ever did was give and acquire information. As for the 2 exceptions:
1. Erek acquired the device to reprogram his nonviolence. As a result he outright slaughtered all enemy forces in the building. After seeing his own carnage he turned his nonviolence back on and gave the device to the Animorphs, and if i remember correctly they threw it into the ocean.
2. The final battle. Jake forced Erek to choose: a. Help the Animorphs get into the Pool Ship and hack into the controls as quickly as possible to reduce casualties (He would have immediately said no, in fact i think he tried to, because one casualty is one too many). Or b. do nothing and the animorphs kill controllers one by one in front of Erek.
Now, Erek may be utterly incapable of directly harming another creature, but his people are easily capable of being an indirect cause, they simply refuse to. They take any alternative route. In the second exception, there weren't any other alternatives. Had the Animorphs tried enlisting the Chee's aid at the underground yeerk pool, they would never do anything that would leave the yeerks defenseless to an animorphs attack. Now as soon as i've finished reading the rest of this thread i'll try to post about the rest of what you've said 200
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Again there's the problem of:
How do you expect a tiger, gorilla, elephant, wolf, hawk, and Andalite to transport said Kandrona without being caught by either the cops, or the Yeerks.
Where would they store such a Kandrona. As I recall, the Kandrona isn't exactly small:
"How big is a Kandrona?" Jake wondered. <It would depend on how many pools it had to
support. It might be as large as Cassie's barn. It might be the size of one of your human cars.>
not to mention it was heavy. rachel had to go elephant to move it...
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let me put this to you 200. i put a gun into your hands. i then point my own gun at your head and begin to count. are you going to shoot me, are you going to point your gun at me and threaten me, or are you going to ask me to please stop?
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2005004219.
First and foremost. THESE ARE THIRTEEN YEAR OLD CHILDREN!!!!
How in God's name are they going to convince anybody that Yeerks exist without risking an all-out invasion by the Yeerks?
Who would believe a 13 year-old that aliens exist; just by their word?
If the Chee could create a Kandrona generator, don't you think that they would have brought up that possibility when they found the Yeerk Peace Movement?
Even if they could, and the Animorphs had to find another alien race to trade with, when are the Animorphs supposed to do all of this outerspace travel? Do you know why the Andalites took so long to get to Earth? Do you know why it took so long for the Yeerks to find Earth? It's because we're REALLY far away from any other alien species.
How are THIRTEEN year olds supposed to barter with all of the world's governments' militaries? Who the hell will believe it?
And about capturing Visser 3? HOW?!? He can morph! He's an adalite. He has a Blade Ship. He is constantly surrounded by Hork-Bajir and Taxxons 24/7/365n
All of this sounds great in theory; but how, amonst all of their reconaissance, homework, and family face time, were they supposed to do all of that? Hmmm?
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They could morph yeerks and infest other adults and to gain, knowledge, skills, experience in planning, tactics, guerilla tactics using the enviroment (cities, psychology to predict how the yeerks behave or their ways on fighting, skilled inventors and more to make defeating the yeerks easier and less bloodier before it escalates to the war on both sides in the last few books) to their advantage, and wisdom, the gov't would be replaced by peace movement yeerks or remain uninfested and the animorphs could find easier ways to detect controllers with their knowledge, experience, didn't the yeerks have biofilters. they could modify and make a smaller one. With their knowledge they could find ways to coordinate with the military and other peace movement yeerks. The base of operations would be where yeerks have the least interest in third world countries, they could build up a force there with factories producing inventions that could help fight the yeerks.
As for the gun part. I can regenerate easily and shoot your arms and legs, but if need be I will kill. But there is a difference between killing in self defense and murder. Fighting and killing a controller if necessary is ok, but to destroy the yeerk pool and kill thousands of defenseless yeerks is different, so is starving a yeerk for 3 days when their are other methods.
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wait... you have issues with them killing controllers in a fight, but have no issues with them taking over a human and using all their memories to gain experience? and even then, there is a big difference between living through something and gaining experience and accessing a memory of it, the latter of which would be little different from your parents telling you to do/not do something.
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Another first,
How are they going to infest those adults? Why would they infest those adults?
They hate the Yeerks for the fact that they take over the bodies of other adults. Why would they do that themselves?
What adult would abandon their family, their job and their life so that a THIRTEEN year old can turn into a slug and crawl into their brain and take contol of their body?
How could the Yeerk Peace Movement work with the Military when the Miltary is already infiltrated by the bad Yeerk?
And again about capturing high ranks and Visser 3. HOW???????
How can 6 THIRTEEN year olds continue the facade of their life, under the constant surveillance of Yeerks, and still have the time to coordinate all of those events?
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Now, let's say that the Animorphs have gotten over the qualms and the willies about turning into Yeerks.
How are they supposed to infest these adults and not become nothlits? If they did infest an adult, how could they keep the adult infested after leaving the adult's head after demorphing to not become a nothlit?
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If lelouch in code geass managed it, why not them. The bad yeerks in the military would be replaced by good yeerks or at worst case nonliths. they could fake their deaths find adults in other countries get their experience resources to start a revolution, they could convince the adults to keep it a secret. for visser 3 a combination of tactics and deception pretend to be a visser or a council of thirteen then lure him into a secluded part of the yeerk base in a meeting filled with infiltrated yeerks on the humans sides or morph soldiers in a hologram. or use a hologram in a heat of battle a smoke bomb grab his DNA and replace his whole guards with peaceful yeerks . The fastest least bloodiest way to win is to capture the yeerk pool and the majority of yeerks without hosts, without alerting the empire. trick the yeerks into evacuating the main unhosted yeerks into their hands. like the pool ship scenarion in the end of the book. They could win like that code geass style.
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When? How?
First they'd have to convince the adults theythe Yeerks are real. Then they'd have to convince the adults they're friendly. then they'd have to convince the adults to give up their lives to be hosts.
How could THIRTEEN year olds do that? THIR-****ing-TEEN.
No adult will EVER believe a THIRTEEN year old.
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When would they have time to do this? With school, parents, and all of the loyalist Yeerks infiltrating the cities. When would they have time to fully explain and convince adults in other parts of the world?
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Visser 3 would never allow a Visser below his rank be isolated with him. Don't you understand? Visser 3 is paranoid about everyone around him because they could be an Andalite. Unless they obey his command explicitly, they die.
No Visser would be able to say, "Hey, Vee-three, would you like to come into the next room and have a chat, maybe have a cold one?"
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How would they replace his guards with YPMs? he has so many and they're killed left and right for being incompetent.
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And what would they have done with the Yeerks they managed to evacuate? They didn't know how to build a Kandrona (or they would have made one before rescuing Aftran in #29), and there would have been far too many Yeerks to manage making them all into nothlits before their three day limit ran out. They would have had to make them into nothlits in small groups, so they could watch over them all, or else some of the not-so-wonderful Yeerks could have easily escaped with the morphing power. And there were thousands of Yeerks in the Yeerk pool. It just wasn't feasible.
The Chee had Kandrona generators in their bodies, so could have constructed Kandrona generators to save the captured Yeerks, as well as saving Yeerk defectors.