Richard's Animorphs Forum
Animorphs Section => Animorphs Forum Classic => Topic started by: sundi on June 20, 2008, 06:47:09 PM
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This is more sort of an ethical question than anything else.
Ok so the yeerks main arguments are that its unfair for a sentient, intelligent being to be so sensory deprived, which is why they infest other hosts.
Well thats the way they evolved right, so tough luck? But they also evolved the ability to infest other beings, so in actual fact they are just doing what they have evolved to do. This was just limited to the Gedds and thats the way it would have stayed, presumably since the Gedds were cumbersome and incapable of making any kind of technological breakthroughs.
So who's to say what the yeerks are doing is wrong? Would you say humans destroying habitats to provide for themselves is wrong, no because fundamentally its down to survival of the species. Sure humans don't go out of their way to harm other species but if there were ever a situation where we had to eliminate a dozen species entirely to save our own we would do it in the blink of an eye.
While I think its right for humans to fight back and resist the yeerks, I've gotta say they are just looking out for their own species, hell at least they're not killing each other to same scale that we have done.
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It's also unfair for a sentient being to be enslaved and to have their freedom taken away. And I would say that hosts suffer more for being controlled than the parasite does for not having a host. The Yeerk can survive without a host, so having a host is not a basic right
However you can't really blame a species for the way they evolved, it's not something you ever have control over.
But on the whole the Yeerks make war and enslave that is not something they have a right to do. They committed genocide while searching for a host race. They may not be killing themselves, but they're doing a much better job at killing other races. But at the same time you cannot hold every Yeerk accountable for the way the race acted.
The only answer is symbiosis, but it would have to be policed very closely.
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Some Yeerks, yes. Like in many other books I've read, it's not the act itself that was bad, but the way the "bad guys" went about doing it. I mean, look at Visser Three. He definitely did wrong. But that doesn't mean all Yeerks were evil. They were just doing what they had to to survive. But some of them took it too far and turned it into something it didn't need to be.
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If they made a law that only voluntary hosts were taken, then I think it would be ok. I mean, there could be some benefit to having another intelligent mind in your head.
It's more the taking of involuntary hosts that is wrong. Seerow obviously wanted them to have spaceflight and explore the cosmos. Surely it would also be ok if members of another sentient species wanted to help out the Yeerks by letting one live inside them.
There are voluntary controllers. Chapman once tells Visser Three that 60% of Humans taken into the Sharing become voluntary. Heck, I'd probably be willing to live with a nice enough Yeerk if it meant I could fly a spaceship or something.
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They committed genocide while searching for a host race.
Yeah, remember that race of aliens that had their brains spread out all over the bodies in nodes (don't remember what they were called)? the yeerks couldn't enslave them so they left them to drift in space.
of course, some yeerks aren't really bad. they're just too scared to disobey.
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the yeerks seem to want to have more then they really need, am i right?
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You could say the same about humans...
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Yes you could. Humans are never satisfied with what they have.
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lol i didnt say we were any better :P
the yeerks are just like us, except maybe a tad more evil and they got space ships and stuff.
id like to think that the number of humans who are basically good is more then the number of yeerks.
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Most of the Yeerk leaders are power hungry... just like humans though. I think its a kind of symbolism thing, of howpresent leaders take freedom of their followers.. but anyway...
This debate is similar to book 19, Cassie's book where Aftran reasons to Cassie that the Yeerks did not do anything wrong...
But, as some of the others above said, taking involuntary hosts is wrong. Plus, why couldn't the Yeerks be satisfied with the Gedds? Or better, why not do what the Iskoort do? Like being in symbiosis with another species?
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well the yeerks haven't thought of what the iskoort did.
and the yeerks are already in symbiosis. paratism is a kind of symbiosis. one which the one organism gains and another loses.
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my post was again, misleading... :) I meant like the Iskoort. Kind of a mutualism symbiosis. Where both have something to gain from each other or one cannot survive without the other.... :)
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I know what you meant. I also said that they didn't think of mutualism
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YES.
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well, yea what the yeerks doing is bad, but humans are almost as bad killing species for food and homes and all that stuff. I say tough cookies. Survival of the fittest. If they can do it and no one can stop them then it doesnt matter whether its right or wrong. But its still definately wrong lol
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Sigh.... here it goes... the shades of gray again... here we are killing a lot of animals for us to live when we can just eat vegetable instead. Yet, we say that Yeerks are bad for enslaving other beings when they can live by just being slugs or as Gedds....
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we can live off of just vegetables? then what's with the canine teeth in our mouth?
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evolved from millions of years of meat eating, or something like that i dno
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Yes, humans started out as fruit and vegetable eaters... eating any edible thing we see from plants. Then we learned to plant, and hunt. Man learned that meat tasted so good... but hard to chew with monkey-human teeth, so... canines! Yes! Gift of the Ellimist... err... evolution! :)
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I see...well I guess it's possible...
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Also, we aren't killing sentient creatures for food. Which is a big difference from the Yeerks.
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Hey... Yeerks do NOT kill sentient beings for food. The species live on, they evolve with the Yeerks. At least the species live. Humans wipe out entire species without remorse. Plus, we are actually destroying our very own planet and kill each other.
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yeah but i mean yeerks kill creatures and torture creatures for fun! Humans arnt so great, But I mean we're better then yeerks come on :]
you still have the best siggy though ^
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They can't help being born what they are, so in that sense they aren't doing anything wrong, but they have the moral choice to live their lives as what they are or make others suffer to live better lives themselves. Or, working with their hosts as equals, rather than tormenting and belittling them. Some Yeerks could probably be nice that way, but so many of them seem like the ultimate sadists, it's a little scary x3
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well the yeerks haven't thought of what the iskoort did.
and the yeerks are already in symbiosis. paratism is a kind of symbiosis. one which the one organism gains and another loses.
No, it's not. Symbiosis means that both species gain something, like remoras and sharks, the Remoras get a meal and the sharks get cleaned.
At any rate, the yeerks aren't inherently evil even if there are individuals who are. I always figured that a good amount of yeerks thought what was going on was wrong, but were to afraid to speak up, and for good reason, what with V3's standard reaction to anyone he doesn't like.
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well then, the meaning of symbiosis must've changed since I learned it (which was about 3-4 years ago)
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yeah but i mean yeerks kill creatures and torture creatures for fun! Humans arnt so great, But I mean we're better then yeerks come on :]
you still have the best siggy though ^
Hahaha! Thanks... hehehe... well, some humans also do torture people for fun or for no fun at all.... But then again, some people are just scum... :(
And walkaway girl must have meant mutualism, a kind symbiosis. Parasitism and Mutualism are both a kind of symbiosis... as far as i know.... =)
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well if she meant mutualism, then yeah she's right. mutualism is a kind a symbiosis in which both organisms profit.
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Okay, it's been awhile since biology, sorry. :-\
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This is more sort of an ethical question than anything else.
Ok so the yeerks main arguments are that its unfair for a sentient, intelligent being to be so sensory deprived, which is why they infest other hosts.
Well thats the way they evolved right, so tough luck? But they also evolved the ability to infest other beings, so in actual fact they are just doing what they have evolved to do. This was just limited to the Gedds and thats the way it would have stayed, presumably since the Gedds were cumbersome and incapable of making any kind of technological breakthroughs.
So who's to say what the yeerks are doing is wrong? Would you say humans destroying habitats to provide for themselves is wrong, no because fundamentally its down to survival of the species. Sure humans don't go out of their way to harm other species but if there were ever a situation where we had to eliminate a dozen species entirely to save our own we would do it in the blink of an eye.
While I think its right for humans to fight back and resist the yeerks, I've gotta say they are just looking out for their own species, hell at least they're not killing each other to same scale that we have done.
Cassie? Is that you? :P
I understand what you're saying, but just because they evolved as parasites, doesn't mean that it's okay for them to enslave other sentient species.
Yes I know that it's not really right for humans to use up and then abandon resources just because we evolved to adapt to new situations either, but the Yeerks are far worse in my opinion. After all, we know for a fact that once they take over a planet, they use up the resources and then abandon the planet just like we would, except they do it with even less care for the environment than we do. Ax has mentioned that the Yeerks would wipe out any animal or plant life that was useless to the Yeerks or their human hosts.
As for it all being about survival, that's crap. The Yeerks were perfectly healthy and happy living out their entire lives in their Yeerk Pools, soaking up Kandrona rays.
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Yeah, but knowledge is a very dangerous thing. Seerow gave the Yeerks knowledge of a possibility of space travel and the infestation of other Species. just like how our technology ends up us wanting for more advanced technology.
If not for Seerow, Yeerks would have been satisfied with just Gedds.
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I dont see how the yeeks did anything wrong. Theyre just doing what they feel is right. I eat meat, so animals have to die, losing life and freedom. I just dont see a difference.
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okay I haven't read all of this thread, so here is my pure two cents
YES. They is bad.
They may have evolved as parasites, but they didn't have to take a host. Having a host no way effected there live spans or reproductive capabilities, with is the evolutionary justification of parasites. They were doing fine before and without an array (honestly any) host fo years, so to decide okay, now we want host, and we're gonna take em; that warrants a time out.
It sucks that they are deprived so many things, but that's how they evolved, and it suited the passing of genes for sustainable live ; and that's the only requirement of evolution
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::) No. Enslaving sentient races and betraying the very people who tried to help you see the stars is perfectly fine.
No. That's the thing. The Yeerks weren't satisfied with just Gedds and became greedy and killed innocent Andalite warriors in their newfound quest to enslave people.
How can you compare killing and eating an organism that's simply following a food chain to a parasite that controls your body till taht day you die?
You people do know that you're backing a race of creatures out to make you a prisoner of your own minds. Right? I can't believe that in the final book, Jake was on trial at all for killing Yeerks and Visser Three of all people was being defended by humans.
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ok so let's not compare them to carnivores. let's compare them to parasites on earth...what parasites are there on earth?
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Capitalists :(
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what's capitalists mean?
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capitalist is an economic system of money, like America uses, you set up a business, make as much as you can, and anyone who can't keep up it's there fault.
What kind of American are you venom? >:( :P
Anyway, earth parasites would be like tapeworms which live in animals intestines and eat some of their food, and typically do little to harm or inhibit their (intended) host. Where as Yeerks well, enslave you and take away your freedom.
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who's to say tapeworms won't cause harm to other species. for all we know tapeworms could eat an andalite from inside out.
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no, tapeworms are real earth parasites. Lots of times cats and dogs have they, they don't harm them, but it's gross for people to see when you clean out a litter box (so I'm told, my cats are clean :D)
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What kind of American are you venom? >:( :P
Oh, just one who believes in fairness and economic democracy.
Yup, I;m as unamerican as they get ::) :P