Richard's Animorphs Forum
Animorphs Section => Animorphs Forum Classic => Topic started by: RYTX on August 28, 2008, 11:01:00 PM
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The famous Animorphs slogan, better dead than a controller.
I used to cheer at that win I was young and agree, but now I hesitate. I don't deeply fear death, but I'm not looking forward to it. Life is life, and any life has some hope.
So really, if your options where a guy with a dracon beam pointed at your head in one head, and a Yeerk in a jar in the other, which, really, do you pick?
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life as a controller. If I'm a controller, I'll either one day be free, or die as a controller, so really it's live or die. I'd rather live. And besides, I don't think being a controller is that bad unless you have a yeerk like visser three.
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I'd rather be a controller than be dead. I'd rather be pretty much anything than be dead. :P
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I'd choose death, screw being a slave in my own head, and lets be honest, the chances of actually being freed were pretty slim, it ended up working out for most of them in the end, but in real life no way
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Dracon beam to the head or being a controller? I'd definitely go with controller. I like being alive, thankyouverymuch.
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Oddly I have to agree with Duff. In reality the odds of everything really working out so well for everyone in such a situation would be negligible. I think I would have to take death over being trapped helplessly in my own body helping trap others.
Then again, wouldn't really know what I'd choose for certain until it came right down to it...
You can make a strong point for choosing life and keeping hope alive.
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why is it odd to agree with me? haha
You have to also consider the fact that you arent just getting rid of your freedom, you are giving it to a yeerk, giving him the power to do terrible things through you, like turning your friends and family...
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I can't believe living your life as a slave of your entire body, letting a torturous alien slug use you as a gigantic ventriloguist dummy is much worse than death.
I can understand wanting to be alive but that is way too high a price.
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Dude, I'd choose death!
Once your dead you don't need to worry about anything anymore. No more pain or suffering or anything... You'd be dead!
Life as a controller? That'd be torture, for the rest of your life, every single day.
Death's the easy way out.
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Death. It would be like spending the rest of my life paralyzed, but worse. What would be the point? Besides, it would drive me insane, and in my few short hours of freedom every three days, I'd probably be trying to commit suicide.
Now, if one of the options were "Life as a Controller with the possible chance of escaping" were an option, I'd choose that. :P I don't give up until I'm sure I've lost.
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I'd probably take my chances with the Yeerk. Maybe he would be a nice Yeerk, or if he isn't maybe eventually we can develop a kind of bond with each other. Really, what are the chances of being infested by someone like Visser Three.
Due to Yeerk culture, though, you can't get a very high rank in the military unless you shed things like compassion and mercy.
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I'm with Duff on this one. As Dumbledore said, "death is nothing but next great adventure" and look at what happened to him.
Though I'm not sure if any Yeerk would want some one as stubborn as me as a host.
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Though I share a different point of view on death, I agree with Claire. I rather be dead and in heaven then have some es cargo in my head.
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why is it odd to agree with me? haha
You have to also consider the fact that you arent just getting rid of your freedom, you are giving it to a yeerk, giving him the power to do terrible things through you, like turning your friends and family...
Lol, not what I meant. I meant odd that my initial response was to choose death...it's kinda final. My wording wasn't exactly phenomenal there though...
I didn't mean to imply that no one should ever agree with you Duff. ;)
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Now, if one of the options were "Life as a Controller with the possible chance of escaping" were an option, I'd choose that. :P I don't give up until I'm sure I've lost.
I figure that's kind of implied; of course your chances aren't good, but as long as your alive there is still the very very very slim possibility. Not good odds, but still something to hold on to
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I agree with those who would choose death. It would be too much seeing what the yeerk was doing, knowing that you could not stop it would be too much for me to handle.
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Dude, I'd choose death!
Once your dead you don't need to worry about anything anymore. No more pain or suffering or anything... You'd be dead!
Life as a controller? That'd be torture, for the rest of your life, every single day.
Death's the easy way out.
What she said.
I'm too much of a control freak, I can't even take the feeling of not being completely conscious when I'm sick and have a fever, no way I'd live through having a yeerk in my head anyways. I'd take the dracon beam. And I'm not afraid of death, either, maybe that has something to do with it.
Yeah, you have the POSSIBILITY that someone's going to free you, but you're going to be tortured every day until then. Would you really WANT to survive something like that? You'd have to see a psychiatrist every day, trying to get that other voice out of your head even after the yeerk had been removed. Not to mention, after a while, you lose your ability to control your own body even when the yeerk's out of it - according to the book - so you'd also have to (possibly) go through intensive physical and mental therapy, trying to redo the bonds inside your brain that the yeerk had to push out of the way and block to get control, so so you can remember how to walk, talk, feed yourself.
Continuous torture, or death?
Hmm..lemme think...;) That's not to say that if I didn't have the choice and they did get the yeerk in my head, I'd do something drastic to end it, like suicide - I'm too much of a wimp, but I'd definitely be like "Heck no, shoot me before you get that thing near my ear"
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all i can say is that id rather be dead then watch my family and friends be infested because of the yeerk in my head, you might be scared of death but that would be worse for me.
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Who knows, you might get a nice Yeerk...
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What's the chances of that? Not very good, in my opinion. . . .
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Not to mention, after a while, you lose your ability to control your own body even when the yeerk's out of it - according to the book - so you'd also have to (possibly) go through intensive physical and mental therapy, trying to redo the bonds inside your brain that the yeerk had to push out of the way and block to get control, so so you can remember how to walk, talk, feed yourself.
I think that was retconned, like some other things early in the series. In the second book, Chapman had difficulty functioning even though he likely hasn't been a controller for more than a few years, tops.
Evan and Alloran didn't seem to have any difficulty after they were freed, or even in book eight when Alloran was temorarily free. He had been a controller for almost thirty years before Earth, and he was still able to thought speak. Then of course he was able to function fine after being freed in book fifty four.
So you'd still be able to move and talk just fine, even after decades of being enslaved.
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yea what book was that said in jen? i dont remember it either
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I can't believe living your life as a slave of your entire body, letting a torturous alien slug use as gigantic ventriloguist dummy is much ore neticing than death.
I can understand wanting to be alive but that is way too high a price.
Although I completely agree, that's hardly reason enough call the people with a different opinion "sick."
Unless I knew that I would be rescued soon (as in before I hurt or infest anyone) then I would choose death. Don't get me wrong, I don't want to die, but I'd rather be dead than spend the rest of my life as a slave inside my own body, with an alien slug able to read my mind like a book. Not to mention the fact that it would force me to hurt, kill or even force Yeerks on others, including my loved ones. Can any of you people honestly say you could live like that? Me being enslaved is bad enough, but being forced to betray everyone I care about (as well as the entire planet) would be a true nightmare.
Oh, and a nice Yeerk? You mean the ones in the Yeerk Peace Movement that have sworn not to take an unwilling host? Somehow, I think your odds of being infested by one of them are kinda low... ::)
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Unless I knew that I would be rescued soon (as in before I hurt or infest anyone) then I would choose death. Don't get me wrong, I don't want to die, but I'd rather be dead than spend the rest of my life as a slave inside my own body, with an alien slug able to read my mind like a book. Not to mention the fact that it would force me to hurt, kill or even force Yeerks on others, including my loved ones. Can any of you people honestly say you could live like that? Me being enslaved is bad enough, but being forced to betray everyone I care about (as well as the entire planet) would be a true nightmare.
Oh, and a nice Yeerk? You mean the ones in the Yeerk Peace Movement that have sworn not to take an unwilling host? Somehow, I think your odds of being infested by one of them are kinda low... ::)
I didn't say Yeerk Peace Movement. I just said a yeerk that's not like visser three. A yeerk that's not a visser or sub-visser, and not that high a ranking.
And yes, I could more or less live like that.
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You'd really want to live and be content as a puppet for all your days?
Watching your body do things you don't want to do and saying things you don't want to say?
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Not want, but I'd rather have that than death.
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I can't believe living your life as a slave of your entire body, letting a torturous alien slug use as gigantic ventriloguist dummy is much ore neticing than death.
I can understand wanting to be alive but that is way too high a price.
Although I completely agree, that's hardly reason enough call the people with a different opinion "sick."
Unless I knew that I would be rescued soon (as in before I hurt or infest anyone) then I would choose death. Don't get me wrong, I don't want to die, but I'd rather be dead than spend the rest of my life as a slave inside my own body, with an alien slug able to read my mind like a book. Not to mention the fact that it would force me to hurt, kill or even force Yeerks on others, including my loved ones. Can any of you people honestly say you could live like that? Me being enslaved is bad enough, but being forced to betray everyone I care about (as well as the entire planet) would be a true nightmare.
Oh, and a nice Yeerk? You mean the ones in the Yeerk Peace Movement that have sworn not to take an unwilling host? Somehow, I think your odds of being infested by one of them are kinda low... ::)
could? yes.
Want to? of course not
big difference.
Horrible as it is there may be a way to do something so long as you're alive.
Once your dead though, want good are you to anyone?
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Now, if one of the options were "Life as a Controller with the possible chance of escaping" were an option, I'd choose that. :P I don't give up until I'm sure I've lost.
I figure that's kind of implied; of course your chances aren't good, but as long as your alive there is still the very very very slim possibility. Not good odds, but still something to hold on to
Well, I suppose it depends on the circumstances and the details. It clearly states, "Life as a Controller," which means that, some way or another, I would be re-captured. And that would totally suck. (Wasn't correcting you or anything, if that's what it seems like to you.)
Then there's the big, "What would you do after you escaped?" Tough one, because I would probably be homeless and have to live on the run.
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I'm with morfowt. Not all Yeerks are inherently evil, and there are some like Illim an Mr. Tidwell, who learned to get along after a while. It's not necessarily hell to be a controller.
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Besides the Yeerk Peace Movement, there basically weren't any "nice" Yeerks. Unless you consider a slug that steals your body as well as all your memories to be "nice." That's like saying "well maybe that virus I've been infected with will be nice."
There were said to be about a hundred members of the Yeerk Peave Movement. The number of Yeerks in the galaxy numbered billions. What do you think your chances are that your Yeerk will have a change of heart if it hears you scream enough times?
I may not be any good to anyone dead, but at least I won't be turning over my friends and family to the Yeerks or killing innocent people.
Besides, I am answering this question on the assumption that I will spend the rest of my life as a Controller. Since I am physically incapable of doing anything of my own free will for the rest of my life, I might as well be dead.
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Doesn't have to be a nice yeerk. Just not a yeerk that's crazy and/or way too power-hungry.
Friends, family, and other people will still be killed/infested whether you die or not.
And actually, you still have some free will as a controller. You still have the will to think inside your own head, and sort of talk to the yeerk.
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talk about how hes infesting your friends and family and entire planet? lol
there are more good yeerks than in the peace movement though, those are just the only ones brave enough to do something about it, just cause you arent willing to risk kandrona starvation doesnt mean you dont feel sad about the situation and will go easy on your host when possible
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So you wouldn't mind losing your body and all your secrets to an alien slug as long as he wasn't a complete psychopath? As long as he's only a little bit evil you wouldn't mind? What difference does it make?
Yes your friends and family probably will still be killed/infested, but at least you won't be the one that betrays them and has to watch as your own hands help drag them kicking and screaming into the Yeerk Pool.
As for the free will to think, you have a point, but it's hardly a reason enough to live. Imagine being trapped in a nightmare that won't end; being able to think about things other than the nightmare isn't going to be much of a consolation. And what would you say to your Yeerk exactly? "So, what's on the agenda today? Going to kill my family or shove my best friend's head into the Yeerk Pool? Anyway, what's your favourite movie?" We know what a typical Yeerk is like, constantly babbling on about how powerful they are, what species they've conquered, their evil plans for the future and how all humans are the scum of the Earth. Fascinating set of conversation topics.
Go easy on the host? Tell you what, I'll shoot your best friend with a Dracon Beam instead of shoving a slug in his brain? Well, you haven't screamed at me as much today, how about to make up for the fact that I've stolen your body and killed everyone you care about, I'll buy you a pizza?
I'm sorry if any of this seems kinda harsh, but I just find it hard to believe that anyone would so willingly accept a Yeerk in their brain instead of death.
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How is that what a typical yeerk is like? Most yeerks we've seen were high-ranking ones, like Visser three, visser one, tom's yeerk, Chapman, Taylor...
Well it's not exactly my hands since I'm not controlling them. I'm not the one betraying them, the yeerk is, which technically isn't betrayal.
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but because you werent able to end your own life you gave the yeerk your hands to do all those awful things
(i agree with dying, i was just throwing that out for arguments sake)
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But what would choosing death acclomplish? I mean, if my death were to inspire people to fight back against the Yeerks, then maybe I'd choose death. 'Cause then you'd at least be a martyr (sp?) or whatever. But just choosing death so that the Yeerks go "Okay." *shoots you in the head* "Next?"... That might as well be suicide, which definitely isn't for me.
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Nobody stated the circumstances surrounding my death, so yeah it would be nice to go out with a bang (hopefully a literal nuclear bang in the middle of the Yeerk Pool) in order to help stop the Yeerks. However, even if my death didn't really affect anything, at least I wouldn't have to watch the terrible things that my Yeerk would do. Or maybe my Yeerk would get killed by Visser Three for no real reason. Sure I'd be dying either way, but my way I at least die free.
We got to know one "normal" Yeerk pretty well actually. Are you forgetting the Yeerk that infested Jake? It wasn't even a sub-visser so it didn't have a high rank to worry about. It was just a normal Yeerk... plotting world domination, thinking about killing or infesting Jake's friends, etc.
So yeah, the "normal" Yeerks sound way nicer!
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the yeerk that infested jake was tom's yeerk, and he was just below Chapman, who is a high-ranking yeerk.
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And he WAS slated to take over the maire or something, wasn't it? So it wasn't a lowly, low-ranking Yeerk. He was heading for the big stuff.
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governor that was planning to run for president.
Yeah, he may not have visser rank, but that's a big fish right there
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So he was lower ranked than a guy with no actual rank? Yeah, he sounds important. ::) (I seem to be in a very sarcastic mood today).
My point is, if Chapman were as highly ranked as the Animorphs thought, then why wasn't he at least a sub-visser? There were hundreds of sub-vissers later on and he still didn't manage to become one? That's because he was a toady. He wasn't important, he was just the guy that Visser Three yelled at and who had to agree to everything the Visser said (pretty much).
Tom's new Yeerk ends up becoming very powerful, but the one that infested Jake wasn't exactly essential. He was bigger than some of the other Yeerks, doesn't mean he was important. Okay, so he was supposed to infest the governor who might have gone on to become the President, which would have made him very powerful. Doesn't change the fact that he ended up in Jake's head and soon died a typical unimportant Yeerk with delusions of glory.
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the yeerks must have had a more complex system then council, visser, subvisser, rest. You have advisors, strategist, project leaders. Even without a title, there still most be people that got answered to simply cause of experience in the field or seniority or whatever
Toms final yeerk was head of security, important job, but to our knowledge he was not a visser/sub visser, just important.
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As I said, that Yeerk had nothing to do with the one that infested Jake.
Head of security is a hell of a title, especially as you're "securing" the ship of Visser One. Therefore, it is easily possible he was a sub-visser.
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As I said, that Yeerk had nothing to do with the one that infested Jake.
Head of security is a hell of a title, especially as you're "securing" the ship of Visser One. Therefore, it is easily possible he was a sub-visser.
He specifically said that he wasn't, though, remember? He was saying at one point that he "should be a sub-visser", but wasn't.
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As I said, that Yeerk had nothing to do with the one that infested Jake.
Head of security is a hell of a title, especially as you're "securing" the ship of Visser One. Therefore, it is easily possible he was a sub-visser.
but as i was saying, even if we don't know of him having a title he was still obviously important.
In fact, he was written as a character that's name reflected rank, and he was in the low 100s yes? So in an empire of millions, yes, still, pretty important
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I don't think the numbers were relavent as Visser Three was Esplin 9466. The thing they mentioned about the low 100s in #6 was probably something KA changed her mind about, like the term "under-visser."
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I agree, she probably changed her mind about it later... But at the time, it was relevant.
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Controller. I like being alive, and any kind of life is better than death. Who knows, maybe it would be nice to have some company in my head. :) It would suck, yeah, but at least as a Controller there's some hope. Maybe not much. Maybe it's a one in a billion chance. But its still a chance. One that wouldn't exist if I were dead.
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Terenia, please don't take this the wrong way, but you strike me as someone who is an optimist to the very end. You're a "glass half-full" person, right?
I'm probably far too stubborn to be easily Controlled (it's a family trait), so if I were ever infested, I would have to feel a little pity for the Yeerk that gets me. Of course, it wouldn't be much. That's why I probably wouldn't have much of a choice . . . but still I would chose death. I'm obstinate in that way.
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I'd have to say, I could not stand being controlled.
I hate being drunk... I hate drugs... I cant stand not to be in a right sort of mind.... except I'm never in a right sort of mind like at night ( ask people in chat :D)
oh well.... So I would choose death.
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Terenia, please don't take this the wrong way, but you strike me as someone who is an optimist to the very end. You're a "glass half-full" person, right?
How the heck could I take being an optimist the wrong way? Isn't that a compliment? :P
Yes, I'm very much an optimist. Even in the darkest hours of humanity you have to have hope, because otherwise what's the point? I'm realistic about things, and I understand the severity of certain situations. But when you're faced with a bad situation why not face it head on and hope it works out for the best? And, if it doesn't work out, make yourself comfortable with what you've got. :)
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How the heck could I take being an optimist the wrong way? Isn't that a compliment? :P
I knew someone (outside of RAF, of course) who takes anything you say offensively. She thought it was funny . . . I, however, found it irritating.
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How the heck could I take being an optimist the wrong way? Isn't that a compliment? :P
I knew someone (outside of RAF, of course) who takes anything you say offensively. She thought it was funny . . . I, however, found it irritating.
Oh. Well, nope, not me! That would kind of defeat the optimist theory, if you ask me. :P
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I'd choose death over being controlled. That is just such a horrible thing to have your body no longer under your control.
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Life as a controller-if anything else I could drive the Yeerk insane. As a consciousness that doesn't need sleep, food or bathroom breaks, I have all the time in the world to break him psychologically >:D ;D
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I said death, but if a peace type relationship could be worked out and I wasn't forced into war, I'd have to at least consider it.
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Life as a controller-if anything else I could drive the Yeerk insane. As a consciousness that doesn't need sleep, food or bathroom breaks, I have all the time in the world to break him psychologically >:D ;D
Your body still needs food and bathroom breaks, but the Yeerk would take care of those. Sleep however, is a different matter as your mind needs sleep as much as your body. In #6 I believe that Jake's mind still slept at night.
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I chose life as a Controller. Especially as you didn't specify life as a Controller to which Yeerk. Aftran or death... I'd go with Aftran. At least I know what being a Controller entails. Death I can only guess at.
No-one's ever truly and completely free, anyway. So why choose death to avoid compromising something you never really had in the first place?
But mainly, I just like life too much. Even when it does get depressing and annoying.
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No-one's ever truly and completely free, anyway. So why choose death to avoid compromising something you never really had in the first place?
Care to explain that contention? Unless you believe that being bound by reason, rationality, and natural laws compromises freedom... ::)
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No-one's ever truly and completely free, anyway. So why choose death to avoid compromising something you never really had in the first place?
Care to explain that contention? Unless you believe that being bound by reason, rationality, and natural laws compromises freedom... ::)
I'm sure she means that between parents, government, law enforcers, ect. One is never truly free. When you disobey to a certain extent, you will be punished. Either by being grounded, jailed, or restricted in some other way.
There's always someone or some people over you.
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Yeah but that doesn't mean you're not free. You're still free to do whatever you want just like society is free to punish you for it. Consequences don't restrict freedom.
(Sorry, free will was my favorite debate topic in philosophy - compatibilism rules!)
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No-one's ever truly and completely free, anyway. So why choose death to avoid compromising something you never really had in the first place?
Care to explain that contention? Unless you believe that being bound by reason, rationality, and natural laws compromises freedom... ::)
I'm sure she means that between parents, government, law enforcers, ect. One is never truly free. When you disobey to a certain extent, you will be punished. Either by being grounded, jailed, or restricted in some other way.
There's always someone or some people over you.
Yeah, basically that, but not only that. Anyone who has a job isn't truly free: you bind yourself to be there a certain number of hours and do what your boss or whatever tells you. Of course, it depends on your definition of what freedom is. However, if you take it to its full extreme, freedom would mean doing whatever you want as and when you want it: including murder if that's what you wanted. Consequently, I feel that not everybody could be completely free to do what they wanted all at the same time, because everyone i s different and thus conflicts, so one person's freedom would restrict another. Which is why we have government to try and impose some order on things. But in turn, that limits freedom.
I do agree that there's a huge difference between involuntary infestation, which is very limiting, and the restrictions on freedom that exist in most democracies. But there are still some restrictions. However, I would argue that VOLUNTARY infestation is no worse than having a job or entering into some other commitment: you give up a portion of your freedom in return for some kind of reward or something that's important to you, whether that's money or companionship or very advanced plastic surgery (Taylor) or the chance to help fight for Earth's freedom (Tidwell and the other PM hosts).
I guess what I'm trying to get at is that 'free' is a very abstract concept, and it means a different thing to everyone. Too abstract for me to wish to be dead if I didn't achieve it :P
Yeah but that doesn't mean you're not free. You're still free to do whatever you want just like society is free to punish you for it. Consequences don't restrict freedom.
(Sorry, free will was my favorite debate topic in philosophy - compatibilism rules!)
What about imprisonment? That restricts your freedom. Although consequences may not ACTUALLY restrict your freedom, they do ATTEMPT to. The Yeerks are just more efficient at restricting freedom than humans, who have to have punishments because they can't physically prevent undesirable acts so they have to have deterrents. And things like what you're taught to do as a child mean that you never even think completely freely, either. There's obviously a continuum between total freedom (a pretty abstract concept, there are always going to be some kind of restrictions, self-imposed, imposed by others or just a result of circumstances), and involuntary infestation which is as close to complete loss of freedom as you could possibly get (at least in the Animorphs universe, where Visser Three's potion to remove free will doesn't work). It depends how you personally define it.
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If I could applaud you ten times over, I would-because you just hit the nail on the head! :) :happy30: :happy34: :headbang: :woot2: :thanks:
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controller although it would suck a huge amount.
and I've always wondered if this would work.
go over to the pool kicking and screaming but before the yeerk has time to get into your head suddenly calm down and pretend the yeerk's back in, could possible escape that way. Of course having said that i think the biofilters would get you but still.
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haha, yeah. You'd be free, but forced to live out your life in the Yeerk Pool.
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most likely dead. I would rather prefer an offer of being an controller for a while (so i get to know the yeerks) and then deciding