Richard's Animorphs Forum

Animorphs Section => Animorphs Forum Classic => Topic started by: filmstu2005 on August 21, 2008, 04:49:36 AM

Title: Cassie and Rachel
Post by: filmstu2005 on August 21, 2008, 04:49:36 AM
I was just going through the old books and I stopped on The Underground and The Unknown, notably Cassie and Rachel books. And as I read through them I realized just how interesting the chemistry b/w Rachel and Cassie was.

The two girls were total opposites, extremes in the spectrum. Cassie the pacifist and Rachel the aggressor. One hated clothes, the other adored shopping. One kept her cool while the other usually blew up. How these two became best friends? It baffles me. But it makes their relationship fascinating to read about. And I noticed that as the war neared its end, the less agreeable the two became. Rachel going for the active approach, Cassie knowing what she had to do, but still seeing another way out that didn't involve all-out killing. And those two ideas clashing constantly. It would have been nice to have a book near the end of the series. One with just the two of them on a mission, and working out their differences.

Anyway, I just want to reminisce on their lighter moments, when they were just two best friends who always made me laugh(Marco and Jake also had great chemistry) when I read their adventures together. In The Underground, (the oatmeal battle lol), Rachel was walking around the Yeerk Pool blasting people away (Rachel's train of thought was always wandering into strange scenarios that involved her doing something stupid) and she couldnt find the other Animorphs. But when she finally knew their locations, except Cassie, she said something interesting. She said she had to "stifle a cry at the thought that Cassie could be hurt." In a way it was nice to see that touching side of Rachel. A side she rarely brought out.

Then of course much later when Visser Three clearly says "Everyone stays where they are! If the person beside you moves, destroy them!" And Rachel pulled out her Dracon beam to which Cassie replied "Get ready for what....where did you get THAT?"
Other funny quotes. Rachel: Oh man, am I glad to see you! How did you get here? Cassie: How did YOU get here?" Rachel: Never mind. I'm in trouble."  Cassie: "I'm SO not surprised.

The Unknown.
Rachel: See, Charles smiled at you." Cassie: He called me CARLA." Rachel: Has he ever even spoken to you before?" Cassie: No, I guess not. Rachel: SEE? Progress." 

And their quarrel about Cassie's clothing was quite amusing as well. When Marco burst out with wide-eyed wonder. "way way too much wonder." :  "Who is this vision of loveliness? This fantasy come true? Excuse me, but are you Tyra banks? No, no you can't be any mortal girl. So much perfection could never be achieved by a mere human. You're an angel descended from heaven! I mean, they say clothes make the man, but these clothes make you an angel!"   And then Cassie calmly pulls out her homework and says, "Are you done?"

The Reaction
Rachel and Cassie are in the bathroom, with Rachel burping a giant crocodile from her back.
 Cassie: I don't have a morph that can beat a crocodile! NOTHING can beat a crocodile!
Rachel: Then get out!"
Cassie: I can't! You're blocking the door with your crocodile tail!"
Rachel: Then get in the stall!" 
So Cassie gets in the stall and suddenly we hear her thought speech. "Rachel, what if the croc attacks the bear?"
Rachel (suspicious): Cassie, are you morphing in there?
Cassie: Um...yes!
Rachel: Cassie, what are you morphing?"
Cassie: Um...um...a squirrel!
Rachel (disbelief): A squirrel? A squirrel!?
Cassie:It was all I could think of!
And yet when that crocodile turned and attacked Rachel in bear morph, Cassie still jumped in to try and save her, even if all she could do was cover its eyes with her squirrel paws.

At the end of that book, Cassie actually morphs Rachel, and does it cleverly, i might add.
Rachel: Good job, sister.
Cassie: Oh good, you're back. Im having the worst time trying to control this morph!"
Rachel: You're having trouble being me? What could be so hard about that?"
Cassie: This brain of yours, it keeps trying to get me to do really dumb things."

Which would explain the reason why Rachel was always conjuring up crazy ideas, especially in her narrative.

And I think one of my favorite moments would have to be in the #19 The Departure. The Animorphs had just discovered that Cassie had given her life and became a nothlit (as a caterpillar) to make peace with Aftran/Karen. And when Rachel found out...
Jake: Cassie! Cassie, demorph!
Rachel (crying):"Cassie! Oh, God, no! Cassie!
Ax showing up: What have you done Yeerk. I'll destroy you for this!
Rachel(bellowing): No! NO! This Yeerk is mine!
Karen runs off. Rachel (morphing grizzly): Let her run. Let her feel what it's like to be helpless. I'll deal with her soon enough.
(Side note. She scared the shi* out of me with those words. An angry girl who was barely in high school with that much power and was already good at killing. Imagine being the object of Rachel's wrath. Yeah...
And so later, the Animorphs decide not to undo Cassie's sacrifice. Now that i think about it and try to relate it to reality, I realize The Departure was probably one of the most beautiful Animorph stories KA ever wrote. No wonder she claimed it was her favorite.
So Rachel appears later crying, after each Animorph makes the decision to let Aftran go free. And she takes the caterppillar/Cassie from Jake and says "Cassie was my best friend. I'm not going to be the one to call her a fool. I'll carry her. I'll keep her safe."

Ax also made an interesting observation in The Sacrifice, when discussing the difference b/w Rachel and Cassie. He noticed Rachel's aggressive and ruthless behavior, and Cassie's kindness, which he mistook as a weakness. He questioned whether the Rachel's of the world were more dangerous than the Cassie's. The aggressors, the tyrants, those who were ruthless, over the kind-hearted, amiable, prone-to-do-good-in-the-world peace keepers. And in his observation he concluded it was the Cassie's that could cause great perils, using Andalite Prince Seerow as a comparison. Cassie's kindness could've been dangerous, although she meant well. But I personally didn't see it that way. Cassie was kind and followed her instincts. Instincts that were usually right.

Ironically, Aldrea chose to inhibit Cassie's body over Toby and Rachel, two fierce warriors.

If there's anything anyone else would like to add, feel free. I'd appreciate it.
Title: Re: Cassie and Rachel
Post by: XenomorphLV426 on August 21, 2008, 06:31:01 AM
I always loved the less-focused-on relationships between the characters too, the less obvious ones.  All seemed more interesting to me.

Cassie/Rachel, Jake/Tobias, Rachel/Ax, Cassie/Marco, etc.  Some really cool dynamics there that always seemed to dwell just a little below the surface.  For example how Cassie and Marco didn't really get along, but in the middle and later books it becomes clear a very real respect exists there between the two of them.  Cassie and Rachel couldn't be more different, but they 90% of the time always have one another's back.  Jake and Tobias seemed to rely on each other a great deal.  And Ax didn't seem to think too highly of Rachel, but they always seemed to end up on the same side of major decisions.

Very cool subtleties.
Title: Re: Cassie and Rachel
Post by: Phoenix004 on August 21, 2008, 08:52:12 AM
I also enjoyed seeing some of the obvious relationships between the characters, especially in books where two characters are drawn together in someway and allowed us to see their relationship with each other.

In #24 Marco and Cassie seem to bond more when they are hit by the shrinking ray and Marco even jokingly suggests that they may have to populate the world with a race of tiny people! XD

The Marco/Tobias relationship was one I found interesting. Initially they clearly don't like each other very much, but there are signs of a grudging respect for each other. Tobias in #3 notes Marco's intelligence when it comes to strategy, and Marco in several books admits that he admires how well Tobias has accepted his nothlit situation and how useful he is for scouting and spying. It's clear that early in the series, Marco is afraid of what Tobias represents (somebody who got trapped in morph) and compensates for this by teasing Tobias a lot. This seems to decrease later on in the series, and both of them back each other up in #30 and #49 (when their respective mother's are in danger).
Title: Re: Cassie and Rachel
Post by: Liz on August 21, 2008, 01:12:43 PM
The Marco/Tobias relationship was one I found interesting. Initially they clearly don't like each other very much, but there are signs of a grudging respect for each other. Tobias in #3 notes Marco's intelligence when it comes to strategy, and Marco in several books admits that he admires how well Tobias has accepted his nothlit situation and how useful he is for scouting and spying. It's clear that early in the series, Marco is afraid of what Tobias represents (somebody who got trapped in morph) and compensates for this by teasing Tobias a lot. This seems to decrease later on in the series, and both of them back each other up in #30 and #49 (when their respective mother's are in danger).

The Marco/Tobias dynamic is my favorite as well.  I also like the Marco/Ax relationship.  My favorite books in that respect are #49 and #51.  I just love it when Marco, Tobias and Ax go on missions together. xD
Title: Re: Cassie and Rachel
Post by: Phoenix004 on August 21, 2008, 01:23:18 PM
The Marco/Tobias dynamic is my favorite as well.  I also like the Marco/Ax relationship.  My favorite books in that respect are #49 and #51.  I just love it when Marco, Tobias and Ax go on missions together. xD

Me too, they get along surprisingly well later on. The Marco/Ax relationship is a good one and often funny. They definitely learn to respect each other later in the series, brought together by their affinity for computers. Ax is obviously way smarter than Marco, but Marco knows the systems better since he's human. One thing I like is how Marco initially disliked and distrusted Ax, but as Ax opens up to the Animorphs more, Marco starts to get along with him better, even spending time with Ax and Tobias in his free time (start of #28 I believe).

The Cassie/Tobias one is also interesting. They get along well and frequently agree with each other in terms of ethical choices. Cassie was mad at Tobias when he admitted to eating one of the baby skunks she was looking for, but then he helped her save the others.

Rachel/Ax I think could have been explored more, as they share a warrior's nature.

Rachel/Marco was a fun relationship. Rachel always acts like Marco annoys her, which he does frequently, but I think she likes him more than she admits. This fact is supported by the subtle flirting between them, the fact that Nice Rachel said he was cute in #32 and in Megamorphs #4 where they actually dated in the alternate time line.
Title: Re: Cassie and Rachel
Post by: Chad32 on August 21, 2008, 01:41:10 PM
You'd think Ax would like Rachel more than he did, because she was the closest thing to a warrior in the group besides him. It confused me a little when he said she was one person he never felt sorry for.

On the other hand, later in the series they try to make her out to be the kind of person that would never be able to recover after the war. Something I never believed.
Title: Re: Cassie and Rachel
Post by: XenomorphLV426 on August 21, 2008, 08:08:04 PM
Rachel's a warrior by nature though, while Ax is by cultural upbringing.  Ax doesn't have that same inner talent or fearless adrenaline-craving that Rachel does.

Ax sees her as irresponsible, as she'd never be allowed to run with those traits in the Andalite system of war.  They're all very samurai, very calm and collected and "let's perform a ritual!", whereas Rachel's like Rambo with a talent for shopping.  Ax is by the book and methodical, Rachel's an X-Game skateboarder doing flips off a halfpipe and yelling "rad, duuude!"

Rachel sees Ax as being a little too bureaucratic, dealing with too much red tape, and not taking enough of a practical to-the-point outlook.

They're not really similar.  It does make a lot of sense.
Title: Re: Cassie and Rachel
Post by: filmstu2005 on August 21, 2008, 08:14:44 PM
^^^I agree. And I too felt bad when KA wrote Rachel off and tried to explain her as a violent bloodthirsty psychopath spiraling out of control. As if a 16 year girl who clearly lost her voice through ghostwriting wasn't capable of living without a war. Yeah, right.

Rachel seemed plenty excited about living past the war. And she was smart. Sure, she lost her train of thought with crazy ideas, but she was smart in most of her books until she was given to the ghostwriters. The Rachel that narrated the beginning of the last book, The Beginning, was almost angelic to me. She was calm, driven, dutiful, sympathetic, and still powerful. Not some blazing lunatic.

I hate what they did to her. They seemed to at least help Rachel get off that ridiculous path in The Return, when who she was and what she had to do became clear to her, although she was broken and scared. Still, showing her recovery and a smarter side through the narrations of the others would've helped. I think her having that recovery wouldve conflicted heavily with the final task that Jake asked of her, and it would have been an interesting read while fitting more into her death. But instead they made her into a dumb blond. So i dont care, the final book was heavily flawed. Heavily.
Title: Re: Cassie and Rachel
Post by: Terenia on August 21, 2008, 08:24:26 PM
Rachel's like Rambo with a talent for shopping.

Amazing! hahaha



I really enjoyed the Rachel/Marco relationship. They focus on it from time to time, and I think they have some of the best banter of the series.

I also really enjoy Jake/Tobias. They have an interesting relationship with one another and it's kind of cool to see how they progress (especially considering how they met).
Title: Re: Cassie and Rachel
Post by: XenomorphLV426 on August 21, 2008, 08:38:21 PM
You know what I love about the Jake/Tobias interaction?  Read book one again.  Tobias is the leader!  It's so awesome.  Jake may be the "heart" of the group, the one that binds the team together and makes it work, but Tobias is the one that orchestrates the whole resistance.  That entire book, not just the cat-morphing scene, it's like Jake is looking to Tobias for advice and direction thoughout.  And I think in a more subtle way that carried through at least most of the series.  Very cool.
Title: Re: Cassie and Rachel
Post by: filmstu2005 on August 21, 2008, 08:49:52 PM
Hmm...there may be some truth to what you're saying...if you look at it that way. It always did seem Tobias should've been the leader, since Elfangor was his father. Shame
Title: Re: Cassie and Rachel
Post by: Chad32 on August 21, 2008, 08:54:32 PM
Rachel's a warrior by nature though, while Ax is by cultural upbringing.  Ax doesn't have that same inner talent or fearless adrenaline-craving that Rachel does.

Ax sees her as irresponsible, as she'd never be allowed to run with those traits in the Andalite system of war.  They're all very samurai, very calm and collected and "let's perform a ritual!", whereas Rachel's like Rambo with a talent for shopping.  Ax is by the book and methodical, Rachel's an X-Game skateboarder doing flips off a halfpipe and yelling "rad, duuude!"


.

They're not really similar.  It doeseaucratic, dof sense.
You're right. When you think of it like that, you are right. They are warriors, but two different kinds of warrior. Ax is like a samuri or knight, while Rachel is like a barbarian or rogue. No offense meant towards Rachel. She was never one of my top favorites, but I dislike what they did to her character at the end.

Some say the author is well within her rights to do what she wants to her characters. I say that after spending around $300 on the series, I am well within my rights to not agree with it.

I might have read a part in wikipedia about their relationships to one another. It was informative. The Cassie/Rachel relationship was interesting, in that with all their differences they were still quite close. I can't really put my finger on why, though. You'd think they wouldn't be friends at all, but they are best friends.

I think Tobias might have made a good destined leader. Maybe KA actually intended it to be that way at some point. Who knows?
Title: Re: Cassie and Rachel
Post by: XenomorphLV426 on August 21, 2008, 09:10:35 PM
Some say the author is well within her rights to do what she wants to her characters. I say that after spending around $300 on the series, I am well within my rights to not agree with it.

Wow. 

No, you don't have to agree with what she chose to do with the ending, but...come on.  That's a really immature way of looking at it.  It's creativity, it's her literary property (well, Scholastic's, but she's the driving creative force), and she's absolutely free to do whatever she wants with it.  It worked for the story, and no, she doesn't owe you anything.  You chose to spend $300 on the books, she hasn't stolen it from you or robbed you of a satisfactory product.  It's not a faulty product not meeting standards: it's a book.  The contents of the book are personal taste, and the fact you spend 300 bucks on it isn't her fault at all.
Title: Re: Cassie and Rachel
Post by: morfowt on August 21, 2008, 09:19:10 PM
The Cassie/Rachel relationship was interesting, in that with all their differences they were still quite close. I can't really put my finger on why, though. You'd think they wouldn't be friends at all, but they are best friends.
well I always say opposites attract.

Some say the author is well within her rights to do what she wants to her characters. I say that after spending around $300 on the series, I am well within my rights to not agree with it.

Wow. 

No, you don't have to agree with what she chose to do with the ending, but...come on.  That's a really immature way of looking at it.  It's creativity, it's her literary property (well, Scholastic's, but she's the driving creative force), and she's absolutely free to do whatever she wants with it.  It worked for the story, and no, she doesn't owe you anything.  You chose to spend $300 on the books, she hasn't stolen it from you or robbed you of a satisfactory product.  It's not a faulty product not meeting standards: it's a book.  The contents of the book are personal taste, and the fact you spend 300 bucks on it isn't her fault at all.
I kinda agree...although that's why my parents tell me to go borrow them from the library instead of buying them.
Title: Re: Cassie and Rachel
Post by: wotw2112 on August 21, 2008, 09:30:59 PM
Some say the author is well within her rights to do what she wants to her characters. I say that after spending around $300 on the series, I am well within my rights to not agree with it.

Wow. 

No, you don't have to agree with what she chose to do with the ending, but...come on.  That's a really immature way of looking at it.  It's creativity, it's her literary property (well, Scholastic's, but she's the driving creative force), and she's absolutely free to do whatever she wants with it.  It worked for the story, and no, she doesn't owe you anything.  You chose to spend $300 on the books, she hasn't stolen it from you or robbed you of a satisfactory product.  It's not a faulty product not meeting standards: it's a book.  The contents of the book are personal taste, and the fact you spend 300 bucks on it isn't her fault at all.

Art is in the public domain.  It's just as much ours as it is hers.  Without us, she doesn't really have the series (no one pays to produce something that doesn't sell).  So it's not immature at all and it is well within our rights to disagree.

You know what I love about the Jake/Tobias interaction?  Read book one again.  Tobias is the leader!  It's so awesome.  Jake may be the "heart" of the group, the one that binds the team together and makes it work, but Tobias is the one that orchestrates the whole resistance.  That entire book, not just the cat-morphing scene, it's like Jake is looking to Tobias for advice and direction thoughout.  And I think in a more subtle way that carried through at least most of the series.  Very cool.

I agree completely.
Title: Re: Cassie and Rachel
Post by: filmstu2005 on August 22, 2008, 02:50:51 AM
Some say the author is well within her rights to do what she wants to her characters. I say that after spending around $300 on the series, I am well within my rights to not agree with it.

Wow. 

No, you don't have to agree with what she chose to do with the ending, but...come on.  That's a really immature way of looking at it.  It's creativity, it's her literary property (well, Scholastic's, but she's the driving creative force), and she's absolutely free to do whatever she wants with it.  It worked for the story, and no, she doesn't owe you anything.  You chose to spend $300 on the books, she hasn't stolen it from you or robbed you of a satisfactory product.  It's not a faulty product not meeting standards: it's a book.  The contents of the book are personal taste, and the fact you spend 300 bucks on it isn't her fault at all.

Art is in the public domain.  It's just as much ours as it is hers.  Without us, she doesn't really have the series (no one pays to produce something that doesn't sell).  So it's not immature at all and it is well within our rights to disagree.
                                                                                                                                                                   


And I completely agree with that statement. It's not immature. Its the same as watching your favorite TV show. You think the network is gonna keep a show on the air when the writers pull some complete b.s. that pisses off the fans and makes them stop watching? I don't think so. Which why I say the guy who wrote the final episode for the Sopranos got LUCKY. It was wrong of him to leave his huge audience of like, 6 years, in the dark like that. Literally. Especially for the final episode? WTF was he thinking? See, there's creativity. And then there's trying to BE creative in a really stupid way. If anyone was wrong, it was him.
Title: Re: Cassie and Rachel
Post by: morfowt on August 22, 2008, 03:29:37 AM
well it's kinda hard to make me stop watching/reading a series. Almost every single time, either practically everything about a series pisses me off (so I just don't start watching/reading it in the first place), or practically nothing about a series pisses me off. I don't know why, but it's true. Most of the time, if I do get pissed off, I just forget about it and move on. I don't stop watching/reading it. Of course there are a few exceptions, like harry potter. stopped reading at book 4.

and how did a topic about cassie and rachel, turn into this?
Title: Re: Cassie and Rachel
Post by: XenomorphLV426 on August 22, 2008, 04:17:35 AM
Probably because Rachel was so heavily involved in why people seem to hate the ending so badly.
Title: Re: Cassie and Rachel
Post by: morfowt on August 22, 2008, 04:30:07 AM
if people want to talk about the ending, there are plenty (or at least were plenty) of threads to talk about it in.
Title: Re: Cassie and Rachel
Post by: Kelly on August 22, 2008, 04:52:09 AM
I was just going through the old books and I stopped on The Underground and The Unknown, notably Cassie and Rachel books. And as I read through them I realized just how interesting the chemistry b/w Rachel and Cassie was.
that was really interesting to read (the whole thing, I just deleted most to make it smaller).
Title: Re: Cassie and Rachel
Post by: Phoenix004 on August 22, 2008, 05:58:35 AM
Stay on topic please.
Title: Re: Cassie and Rachel
Post by: filmstu2005 on August 22, 2008, 11:42:47 PM
and how did a topic about cassie and rachel, turn into this?

Yeah. No one seemed to be interested in Cassie and Rachel's relationship,  at least not like me. But its still interesting to talk about their other respective relationships.
Title: Re: Cassie and Rachel
Post by: Starsword on August 23, 2008, 10:19:28 AM
We always want what we can't have. They admired each other because Rachel and Cassie could never be the other but saw valuable qualities in their counterpart. That would lead to friendship I think.
Title: Re: Cassie and Rachel
Post by: Phoenix004 on August 23, 2008, 01:52:30 PM
We always want what we can't have. They admired each other because Rachel and Cassie could never be the other but saw valuable qualities in their counterpart. That would lead to friendship I think.

I agree. Just like in real life, friendships are often more interesting when the two friends are polar opposites, or at least not exactly the same. I don't know about you guys, but I have several friends who I admire for traits that I wish I had myself. I would assume it's the same for Cassie and Rachel.

It would have been cool to see flashbacks to when some of them became friends though. Maybe not for Marco and Jake who knew each other since very early childhood, but maybe for Rachel and Cassie, or Cassie and Jake.
Title: Re: Cassie and Rachel
Post by: Starsword on August 23, 2008, 02:03:47 PM
A preview of life before the Animorphs would have been pretty cool, just one book leading up to The Invasion, just to get a greater perspective on the impact of the war, although it is generally pretty clear.
Title: Re: Cassie and Rachel
Post by: Phoenix004 on August 23, 2008, 02:51:32 PM
I don't think a whole book would have been necessary, since #1 and Megamorphs #4 both had elements of life without the Yeerks. I just would have been nice to see how some of them met for the first time.
Title: Re: Cassie and Rachel
Post by: Starsword on August 23, 2008, 05:02:00 PM
I would have liked to have seen their relationships with people outside of the Animorphs just to see how the relationship changed. They don't really have friends...ever...ex cept for Melissa Chapman.
Title: Re: Cassie and Rachel
Post by: Phoenix004 on August 23, 2008, 05:10:07 PM
Is it really so unusual for people to have only a few really close friends? Besides, after becoming Animorphs they probably didn't have a lot of time to socialise with other friends they might have had.
Title: Re: Cassie and Rachel
Post by: morfowt on August 23, 2008, 05:12:23 PM
yeah. I don't have a lot of close friends here at my school, although that could be because I'm a new kid.
Title: Re: Cassie and Rachel
Post by: Phoenix004 on August 23, 2008, 05:16:13 PM
yeah. I don't have a lot of close friends here at my school, although that could be because I'm a new kid.

New kid? Word of advice: if you find a mysterious blue box in a construction site, don't tell anybody! (Except me!)  ;)
Title: Re: Cassie and Rachel
Post by: morfowt on August 23, 2008, 05:18:08 PM
don't worry. There's no construction site anywhere near here. There is one on my way to school though...no seriously.
Title: Re: Cassie and Rachel
Post by: Phoenix004 on August 23, 2008, 05:22:25 PM
Perfect! Now you just need to walk through the site with your best friend, your cousin, the girl you like and a guy you barely know. And then you all need to send me that blue box! You can have English money in return!  :D
Title: Re: Cassie and Rachel
Post by: morfowt on August 23, 2008, 05:24:51 PM
Aren't they called euros?

my best friend is in america, my cousin is in another city in china, the girl I like is in another city in china, and a guy I barely know would just be next door.
Title: Re: Cassie and Rachel
Post by: wotw2112 on August 23, 2008, 05:40:49 PM
You better get to work then.
Title: Re: Cassie and Rachel
Post by: Phoenix004 on August 23, 2008, 05:41:15 PM
Euros? EUROS?! Are you kidding me?! We still use good old English Pounds thank you! And with any luck, it'll stay that way! You see, I do have some sense of patriotism.  :)

Hmmm... that plan might not work then, that's a shame. Although this does give me an idea for a new thread...

Anyway, back to the topic... *mutters something involving Animorph relationships*
Title: Re: Cassie and Rachel
Post by: filmstu2005 on August 24, 2008, 01:37:39 AM
I'm wondering how Cassie came between the relationship Melissa and Rachel had. Seems Melissa and Rachel would have WAY more in common and still have enough differences to be friends. So I find it odd that Cassie is her best friend over Melissa.
Title: Re: Cassie and Rachel
Post by: XenomorphLV426 on August 24, 2008, 03:57:16 AM
But why would they need things in common to be friends?  Most best friends aren't that much alike.

And Marco and Jake didn't share a whole lot of personality traits, either.
Title: Re: Cassie and Rachel
Post by: Gaz on August 24, 2008, 08:42:00 PM
Maybe it's one of those times when opposites attract. It seems like they shouldn't be friends, but somehow they are. Yeah, they have their disagreements. Who doesn't? No one's perfect, that's human. And KA did a decent job of showing us these characters were pretty human. (Or Andalite in Ax's case)

 A real life example: Last year I had a roommate who was the complete opposite from me. I'm sort of like Cassie: quiet, not really girly. Then my roommate was like Rachel as far as clothes and things were concerned. She had been on the school dance squad for a year. She's in no way a warrior inside. Though given the right circumstances...(saving the earth from aliens, maybe?) Who knows? We're not the best of friends, but we got along and she still wants to hang out.
Title: Re: Cassie and Rachel
Post by: Starsword on August 24, 2008, 09:19:47 PM
Perhaps they are very similarly connected on a subliminal level, like sharing common goals and values.
Title: Re: Cassie and Rachel
Post by: estrid on August 29, 2008, 02:52:44 AM
You know what I love about the Jake/Tobias interaction?  Read book one again.  Tobias is the leader!  It's so awesome.  Jake may be the "heart" of the group, the one that binds the team together and makes it work, but Tobias is the one that orchestrates the whole resistance.  That entire book, not just the cat-morphing scene, it's like Jake is looking to Tobias for advice and direction thoughout.  And I think in a more subtle way that carried through at least most of the series.  Very cool.


dude i cant believe i never noticed that bout book 1, but ur rite. tobias is the one that really keeps them all together.
Title: Re: Cassie and Rachel
Post by: XenomorphLV426 on August 29, 2008, 06:07:18 AM
Yeah.  I mean I'm not saying Jake isn't the leader or anything, he obviously is, but it's always cool how he seems to rely on Tobias in a similar way to how he does with Cassie and Marco.  Cassie's the heart/sanity/morality, Marco's like the football strategist, and Tobias is kind of like the soul of the fight, even pre-nothlit he was the one who was like bringing everything together.

I think there's a scene in one of the middle-later books where Jake kind of pulls Tobias aside at a barn meeting or something too, asking for opinions, not including the others.
Title: Re: Cassie and Rachel
Post by: Azguard on September 06, 2008, 11:49:39 AM
 With CAssie and Rachel, it would be interesting to see how they became friends. Maybe they were actually friends early on like early elementary. That would make it a lot easier to stay together since they shared similar experiences. Opposites do attract but you wouldn't want them to be too much opposite for too long. I mean, think about politics. There would always constantly be friction. I'm not saying it wouldn't work at all, but just imagine if politics wasn't the only thing you had different to your best friend. Imagine everything! You would constantly be in friction. So, maybe they had a Jake/Tobias incident early on, or maybe they do have some vision or goal together. Maybe the war brought them even closer together. Maybe...

 Rachel and Cassie were only acquaintances through a mutual friend...but that mutual friend is not in the picture anymore, but Rachel and Cassie bonded?

 What I'd like to know is how Jake and Cassie got together. haha.
Title: Re: Cassie and Rachel
Post by: sherrilina on September 06, 2008, 01:05:46 PM
^^^I agree. And I too felt bad when KA wrote Rachel off and tried to explain her as a violent bloodthirsty psychopath spiraling out of control. As if a 16 year girl who clearly lost her voice through ghostwriting wasn't capable of living without a war. Yeah, right.

Rachel seemed plenty excited about living past the war. And she was smart. Sure, she lost her train of thought with crazy ideas, but she was smart in most of her books until she was given to the ghostwriters. The Rachel that narrated the beginning of the last book, The Beginning, was almost angelic to me. She was calm, driven, dutiful, sympathetic, and still powerful. Not some blazing lunatic.

I hate what they did to her. They seemed to at least help Rachel get off that ridiculous path in The Return, when who she was and what she had to do became clear to her, although she was broken and scared. Still, showing her recovery and a smarter side through the narrations of the others would've helped. I think her having that recovery wouldve conflicted heavily with the final task that Jake asked of her, and it would have been an interesting read while fitting more into her death. But instead they made her into a dumb blond. So i dont care, the final book was heavily flawed. Heavily.
Sorry, but if it was only the ghostwriters' fault, then why is Rachel still about as bloodthirsty and out of control in the final arc books?  Even in the final book she notes that her against all those warriors was how she liked it.  Even waaay back in book 4 or so, when KA was definitely still writing the series, Cassie notes sadly that Rachel now has all war-related mottos and quotes on her bulletin board in her room.  I think that KA always intended for Rachel's dark side to come out in the war, and for her to not really be able to live in a post-war world afterwards.  She'd have been a little like Patton in that way--who could be very aggressive and over-confident and harsh, and sometimes clever in war, sometimes not so much, and always gung-ho, but who did not do well after the war.  Or like Jake--though I think part of his melancholy had to do with Rachel and Tom's deaths, as far as I can tell.  And Jake too had sworn to Cassie immediately before that he would lead a full life after the war.  So I don't think Rachel's progression was all that unrealistic and OOC, and do agree that she probably would not have done well after the war without action, based on the rest of the series--including those written 100% by KA.

To be a little more on topic, I too love the C/R dynamic, such as when Rachel tries to get Cassie to shop or break out of her shell a little or pursue her relationship with Jake (with some prime hilarious moments in "The Sickness," for example).
Title: Re: Cassie and Rachel
Post by: morfowt on September 06, 2008, 06:11:37 PM
I think the final arc was written by ghostwriters too. K.A. only wrote the last two books of the final arc.
Title: Re: Cassie and Rachel
Post by: filmstu2005 on September 06, 2008, 10:37:31 PM
Thats true. Although KA does oversee the books written by the ghostwriters, they're still the ones writing it. I don't know. I still think Rachel wouldve been able to live past the Yeerk war. There were many moments where she had clear thoughts. Its cool for her to be all "Rambo" and tempted by power, but to write her off that way as a lost cause seemed harsh. There was a road to recovery, and it shouldve been shown after The Return when she made those self-realizations.

Besides, her death seemed forced, just to make an impact in the final book. I mean, the Animorphs have been in crappier situations before and still made it out alive. And yet no one dies until the final book. It just didnt seem to work well.
Title: Re: Cassie and Rachel
Post by: estrid on September 07, 2008, 01:31:13 AM
i agree. the ending was super rushed, like ka just wanted to be done with. WHICH she has admitted to being sick of the series and just wanting to end it by the time the end came around.

back on topic, i woulda loved for them to explore the rachel/tobias relationship more. i mean ya we all knew they were together and stuff, and they had their arguments over tobias being human, but they never really talked much. i dk i cant explain it, i just know i would have wanted it.
Title: Re: Cassie and Rachel
Post by: Azguard on September 07, 2008, 03:02:49 PM
 They definately shared chemistry...but yeah, besides the war they didn't have too much in common...