Richard's Animorphs Forum
Animorphs Section => Animorphs Forum Classic => Topic started by: Darth Zakryn on September 09, 2011, 02:43:17 PM
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Ok, I know I'm treading a very sensitive subject here, but as long as we stick to common rules of civility, it can't get too out of hand, can it? Please, no one be "disgusting" or treat this like porn; it ISN'T, I know it borderlines "sick" things, but I'm just curious. I'm also not talking about SEX, but CREATING YOUNG, however that might work.
Now that that's out of the way, onto my question: How do alien species in Animorphs reproduce? Since we er, ahem, *know* how humans do it, let's not talk about us. Instead I mean Andalites, Hork-Bajir, Taxxons, etc. Andalites confuse me, the Hork-Bajir as well, since how can do you, er, anything with all those blades sticking everywhere? Taxxons are the most likely to be understood; they lay eggs. So the Skrit Na, as was heavily implied. The species I want to know about the most are:
Andalites
Hork-Bajir
Ketrans
Howlers (was said they were made in factories, but HOW?)
Leerans
Gedds
Taxxons
Any ideas and advice would be welcome. If anyone has an idea about an Animorphs species in fan fic pertaining to this subject, please post here too. Thanks.
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Andalites
Most likely similar to horses. from elimmist chronicles, we know its 1 on 1 (unlike yeerks) and most likely a pregnancy to birth scenario
Hork-Bajir
they were bred to be tree harvesters and the arn did not need a large number of them, and tried to keep the population under control. i see the possibility of pregnancies being fatal to the mother, giving birth to a smallish average litter.
Ketrans
flying, very humanlike apperance. romance is mentioned so some form of sex is implied. i think that the process is very similar to humans, which may be why he shows such an interest in us
Howlers (was said they were made in factories, but HOW?)
directly manufactured by the crayak, no need for real reproduction. he most likely made some concession to the elimmist in exchange for this.
Leerans
aquatic beings with direct telepathy makes romance difficult. different genders are not mentioned so ill suggest asexual reproduction (there has to be at least one species) they lay eggs that hatch without a need to be fertilized.
Gedds
the male reproductive organ grows out of the left armpit. the female one is under the right knee.
Taxxons
the living hive is the "female" every taxxon is male. she gives birth to the taxxons and they "reproduce" with her. there used to be many living hives on their planet, but something happened such that there is only one left. the weakness of their skin is due to generations of inbreeding.
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Ketrans
flying, very humanlike apperance. romance is mentioned so some form of sex is implied. i think that the process is very similar to humans, which may be why he shows such an interest in us
There could be a slightly more ritualistic approach to it. In the wild when eagles mate they lock claws at great altititudes and fall straight down, only breaking apart at the last mintue.
I could see the Ketran having a very similar ritual over the hot magma surface of their world.
Howlers (was said they were made in factories, but HOW?)
For some reason the scene of the Uraki breaking out of the rock and standing before Sauramon comes to mind.
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Wow, these are some GREAT replies! Russianspy, do you think you could elaborate on the Hork-Bajir bit? That's the one that confuses me the most.
What I'd REALLY like to know is... well, if you guys've seen Monster-Man's latest commissions of the Dayangs (done for me!), then you'd probably wonder how the HELL reproduction was possible because they look like office chairs from the chest down.
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Wow, these are some GREAT replies! Russianspy, do you think you could elaborate on the Hork-Bajir bit? That's the one that confuses me the most.
What I'd REALLY like to know is... well, if you guys've seen Monster-Man's latest commissions of the Dayangs (done for me!), then you'd probably wonder how the HELL reproduction was possible because they look like office chairs from the chest down.
the hork bajir were genetically engineered for a specific purpose, i can see the arn building in a population limiting factor into them since they wouldnt want them growing out of control. the way i saw it was that the tail blades start developing still in the womb, and rather than being born the babies blade their way out. though now that i think about it, tobys parents both still being alive puts a hamper on that so its likely not always fatal, but the extremely fast adolescence to adult time implies a typical lack of parental guidance in their species.
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Maybe hork-bajir reproduce by eggs, thay are sorta reptile like and reptiles reproduce by eggs. But then again they are aliens but they could be simuliar to earth creatures
Andalite young might be born without the tail balde since hork bajirs.blades arent fully developed when they are born
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The fact that Hork-Bajir blades are not fully developed when born seems, to me, to imply live birth. If they were an egg-laying species, it would be advantageous for the blades to develop before anything else, since that would give them a better means of cracking through the shell. Oh, and consider the planet that Hork-Bajir were designed for. Steep slopes + eggs = generally not a good idea.
As for the . . . how? . . . part, it's probably pretty similar to how porcupines, ahem, do it. Porcupines manage to reproduce and bear live young without killing each other or dying, so however they do it (I'm no expert on the habits of porcupines :P) might be similar to how Hork-Bajir do it.
[spoiler=The Ellimist Chronicles]For the Ketrans, it's possible that they have some sort of short-range airborne gametes. I recall the scene were Aguella released some sort of hormones into the air that blindsided Toomin, so it's possible that they reproduce in a similar fashion. That could explain why he got so freaked by Aguella's actions.[/spoiler]
However, I also like the Bald Eagle analogy.
As far as Taxxons go, my theory is that the Living Hive is a mature Taxxon, and the reason that there are so few Living Hives is because the Taxxons all tend to eat each other before they can ever reach maturity. Loads of earth insects have a juvenile form and an adult form that look nothing alike, so why not? Then the Hive might reproduce asexually, thus starting the cycle over again.
Then again, any creature using asexual reproduction is going to be forced to evolve very slowly. And so it's much less likely that any species that evolves that way will ever reach sentience. So the Living Hives probably have some way of exchanging DNA with one another.
For the same reason, it's not likely that the Leerans only have one gender, unless they are a very old race. More likely, they reproduce in a similar fashion to fish or frogs. The females lay the eggs, and the males fertilize them.
Gedds
the male reproductive organ grows out of the left armpit. the female one is under the right knee.
OMG that's why they're asymmetrical! You're a genius! :XD:
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For the same reason, it's not likely that the Leerans only have one gender, unless they are a very old race. More likely, they reproduce in a similar fashion to fish or frogs. The females lay the eggs, and the males fertilize them.
every sci fi setting has a species with only one gender. the leerans seem like the most likely candidate to me.
Gedds
the male reproductive organ grows out of the left armpit. the female one is under the right knee.
OMG that's why they're asymmetrical! You're a genius! :XD:
thanks :)
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every sci fi setting has a species with only one gender. the leerans seem like the most likely candidate to me.
Hmm, actually, I'd say the Yeerks seem to better fit that role. ;)
By the way, I'm not saying that the Leerans can't be hermaphrodites, just that it's unlikely that they would reproduce asexually. A non-gendered race can still create offspring that have two parents, after all.
Look at it this way. A species that only ever reproduces asexually has only one form of evolutionary pressure at work on it: pressure to survive (AKA find food/avoid predators). Any creature that can do that is able to breed. That mostly only eliminates any creature that gets sick or injured, which is really more about luck than adaptability anyway. Thus, evolution of such creatures tends to stagnate.
BUT, once you require another member of the species in order to breed, now you have members of the species itself picking who will pass on their genes and who won't. That adds another layer of evolutionary pressure onto a species. Small or weak or unattractive or stupid individuals can no longer breed at all. Any sexually reproducing species, therefore, will generally evolve much faster than an asexually reproducing one.
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every sci fi setting has a species with only one gender. the leerans seem like the most likely candidate to me.
Hmm, actually, I'd say the Yeerks seem to better fit that role. ;)
By the way, I'm not saying that the Leerans can't be hermaphrodites, just that it's unlikely that they would reproduce asexually. A non-gendered race can still create offspring that have two parents, after all.
Look at it this way. A species that only ever reproduces asexually has only one form of evolutionary pressure at work on it: pressure to survive (AKA find food/avoid predators). Any creature that can do that is able to breed. That mostly only eliminates any creature that gets sick or injured, which is really more about luck than adaptability anyway. Thus, evolution of such creatures tends to stagnate.
BUT, once you require another member of the species in order to breed, now you have members of the species itself picking who will pass on their genes and who won't. That adds another layer of evolutionary pressure onto a species. Small or weak or unattractive or stupid individuals can no longer breed at all. Any sexually reproducing species, therefore, will generally evolve much faster than an asexually reproducing one.
youre assuming a rate of mutation similar to our own. if sexual maturity is late enough, they still need to survive long enough to be able to "breed". sexual reproduction actually serves to give bad genes a second chance, which does make adaptation easier if the environment changes, but overall weakens the species of the environment stays the same. with asexual reproduction, if a weak leeran did manage to breed, its offspring would likely be fairly similar (though not identical due to my hypothesis of lots of mutations) and thus also unlikely to live on.
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every sci fi setting has a species with only one gender. the leerans seem like the most likely candidate to me.
Hmm, actually, I'd say the Yeerks seem to better fit that role. ;)
Don't the Yeerks have three genders?
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It takes 3 of them to reproduce.
If that means there are 3 genders, or any three Yeerks can reproduce, is left for questioning
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All good points, russianspy. Particularly your point that bad genes get a second chance in sexual reproduction. I hadn't thought of that.
However, you're also assuming that rates of mutation have no upper limit. Because of the complexity of multicellular organisms, mutations are usually going to be more likely to go wrong than right. At a low rate of mutation, that's fine, because the bad mutations get removed by natural selection faster than they can accumulate, while good mutations hang around. But if things mutate too quickly, they'll start dying off faster than they can replace themselves. Unless they're breeding pretty much constantly, for example bacteria, which mutate quickly but also breed quickly. But still, bacteria are also protected by their own simplicity, since not much can go fatally wrong with you when you're just a cell filled with DNA.
Just ask the Nartec what happens when you mutate faster than you can breed. :P
It takes 3 of them to reproduce.
If that means there are 3 genders, or any three Yeerks can reproduce, is left for questioning
I believe it has been mentioned in the series that the Yeerks are genderless. So any three Yeerks should be able to reproduce, I think.
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All good points, russianspy. Particularly your point that bad genes get a second chance in sexual reproduction. I hadn't thought of that.
However, you're also assuming that rates of mutation have no upper limit. Because of the complexity of multicellular organisms, mutations are usually going to be more likely to go wrong than right. At a low rate of mutation, that's fine, because the bad mutations get removed by natural selection faster than they can accumulate, while good mutations hang around. But if things mutate too quickly, they'll start dying off faster than they can replace themselves. Unless they're breeding pretty much constantly, for example bacteria, which mutate quickly but also breed quickly. But still, bacteria are also protected by their own simplicity, since not much can go fatally wrong with you when you're just a cell filled with DNA.
Just ask the Nartec what happens when you mutate faster than you can breed. :P
It takes 3 of them to reproduce.
If that means there are 3 genders, or any three Yeerks can reproduce, is left for questioning
I believe it has been mentioned in the series that the Yeerks are genderless. So any three Yeerks should be able to reproduce, I think.
its mentioned that they have 5 genders. how (or which) 3 are required is not explained.
the asexual reproduction could have evolved late, after intelligence and other complexities. crossing over and a different dominant/recessive than what we are used in earth organisms could also add complexity to the reproduction.
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When is it mentioned that the Yeerks have 5 genders? I don't recall any mention of that.
Excellent point there. Truth be told, I was just about to come back with a counter-argument, and did a little research (http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=asexual-lizards) and found that there are 70 species right here on earth that reproduce asexually despite having sexually-reproducing ancestors. So, yeah, it's entirely possible that the Leerans are asexual after all.
Still . . . without strong canon evidence, we shouldn't assume that that is the case. 70 species is far from being a majority among vertebrate life.
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When is it mentioned that the Yeerks have 5 genders? I don't recall any mention of that.
Excellent point there. Truth be told, I was just about to come back with a counter-argument, and did a little research (http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=asexual-lizards) and found that there are 70 species right here on earth that reproduce asexually despite having sexually-reproducing ancestors. So, yeah, it's entirely possible that the Leerans are asexual after all.
Still . . . without strong canon evidence, we shouldn't assume that that is the case. 70 species is far from being a majority among vertebrate life.
same book its mentioned that it takes a merging of 3 (19 i think).
like i said, every scifi cannon has a species that reproduces asexualy, it was either leerans or taxxons for this, leerans seemed like a better bet.
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There is no mention of any genders, 3 or 5, in 19.
Personally don't remember any mention of Yeerk genders in any books
I've never thought of any of them being asexual. But to be fair, I don't often thing about any of them having sex.
If they were, I'd like to see it shuffle. Mix sexual and asexual. Like aphids.
btw, love the Uraki idea for the Howlers Nate.
Friggin' perfect
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There is no mention of any genders, 3 or 5, in 19.
Personally don't remember any mention of Yeerk genders in any books
hmmm coulda sworn... must have been a fanfic.
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like i said, every scifi cannon has a species that reproduces asexualy, it was either leerans or taxxons for this, leerans seemed like a better bet.
Yes, well, every sci-fi is supposed to include at least one Rubber Forehead (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RubberForeheadAliens) race, too. :P
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HEY NO MAKING FUN OF STAR TREK! :P
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like i said, every scifi cannon has a species that reproduces asexualy, it was either leerans or taxxons for this, leerans seemed like a better bet.
Yes, well, every sci-fi is supposed to include at least one Rubber Forehead (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RubberForeheadAliens) race, too. :P
gedds would probably qualify, they are described as monkeylike aside from the shorter leg.
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My point was that not every sci-fi series is obligated to include every sci-fi trope ever invented. ::)
BTW, I wasn't making fun of Star Trek, I love Star Trek! I was only pointing out that aliens that appear mostly human are found everywhere in sci-fi.
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I remember in The Earth Diary of Toby Hamee (http://www.fanfiction.net/s/5893377/1/The_Earth_Diary_of_Toby_Hamee (http://www.fanfiction.net/s/5893377/1/The_Earth_Diary_of_Toby_Hamee)) that mating and live-birth for Hork-Bajir is described. Toby and Telf Getrin have a kid named Dude.
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Wow, look at all these wonderful replies. I tend to think the Living Hive is a bunch of Taxxons merged together to form it, but I could be wrong. And not ALL aliens in Star Trek are humanoid, just the so-called "elite" ones who form a special class. We've seen other aliens without rubber foreheads like the Sheliak, the Tholians, the Gorn, and Species 8472. :D
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My point was that not every sci-fi series is obligated to include every sci-fi trope ever invented. ::)
BTW, I wasn't making fun of Star Trek, I love Star Trek! I was only pointing out that aliens that appear mostly human are found everywhere in sci-fi.
well it doesnt have to have EVERY trope, but when you are looking at a fairly large number of species and trying to come up with an explanation for for each of their reproductions, and dont want to repeat, then you are bound to use asexual (as well as 3 gender)
been thinking more about the andalite one now, due to ax not understanding why humans cover up, it would seem that whatever sex organs andalites have, they are internal and non fetishized.
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It's the Andalites I often ponder over...what area of the torso the young would be carried in if they had live young, although we can't be certain of that,and how the baby would fold up to fit. The tail blade would have to be soft at first, that's for sure.
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well it doesnt have to have EVERY trope, but when you are looking at a fairly large number of species and trying to come up with an explanation for for each of their reproductions, and dont want to repeat, then you are bound to use asexual (as well as 3 gender)
Why not repeat? Evolution tends to figure out what works and runs with it. And what works for one sentient animal-like life-form is probably at least going to be close to what works for another. Fur obviously evolved at least twice in the Animorphs universe, as did scales and feathers and lungs and hearts and stomachs and internal skeletons and eyes and ears and hands. Heck, every single Animorphs species uses aerobic respiration!* Why is it any harder to believe that a two-gendered mode of reproduction is just as adaptive?
Given that asexual reproduction exists on earth, yet has never taken hold with any of earth's most dominant species, it's quite plausible to assume that it would be equally rare among extraterrestrial life-forms, as well, especially advanced ones. Granted, it's probably not completely unheard-of in the entire universe. But it also would not be nearly common enough that we could simply assume that, out of any random collection of species, one or more must reproduce asexually.
*Yes, including Yeerks. According to HBC hey start to suffocate when buried in mud, and according to Cassie in #29 they breathe through their skin.
been thinking more about the andalite one now, due to ax not understanding why humans cover up, it would seem that whatever sex organs andalites have, they are internal and non fetishized.
I'd agree with that. Especially given the fact that none of the human Animorphs have never pointed and laughed at Ax running around naked all the time.
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When is it mentioned that the Yeerks have 5 genders? I don't recall any mention of that.
Yeah... I don't recall 5 genders. That doesn't mean it's not true, but if it's true I'd like to read it.