Richard's Animorphs Forum
Animorphs Section => Animorphs Forum Classic => Topic started by: TobiasMasonPark on July 28, 2011, 11:09:33 AM
-
This thought just occured to me...
We obviously know that morphing [somehow] works by use of obtaining, or acquiring, DNA and playing the "concentration game"--focusing really hard on the DNA you want to use and morphing into whatever creatures DNA you acquired. We know that it doesn't matter if the animal you're acquiring was wounded or injured, because the DNA itself isn't broken--as seen when Tobias acquired and morphed the injured red-tailed hawk in the Invasion.
In the Ultimate, we see that the handicappable--or, vecols, as the Andalites refer to the disabled-- may not have their bodies repaired if they were born with their disability--cistic fibrosis, blindness (in the case of that one girl) cerebral palsy, etc-- because, technically, there is nothing wrong with their DNA; they were born that way. The only time we see a "vecol", or disabled person, morph back to their healthy forms was in James and two of his lieutennants.
But would the former be the case if one of the Animorphs-- or any other non-disabled person--acquired and morphed one of the Auxiliary Animorphs?
Maybe so. We've already seen in many books that the Animorphs are morphing the creature's DNA. If the Auxiliaries were born with cerebral palsy then--unless I'm mistaken-- that information is written and imprinted in their genetic makeup. They were born disabled because something got mixed up in their DNA following conception.
-
Yeah I'm pretty sure that would be exactly how it works. In a diffrent series they were trying to heal a wheelchair bound girls legs. According to a master magician the process of healing ailments is usually speeding it up in time so that a cut that would take a month to heal only takes a few days, but she was born crippled so it wouldn't work. I always apply that when I think about the auxiliary animorphs that are still crippled.
-
With physical handicaps, yes, I believe that the morpher would gain whatever disorder it was. Blindness, cystic fibrosis, they would get, because that's part of the body they'd morphed.
Mental handicaps would probably be a bit different, though. Keep in mind that, during a morph, the morpher's mind is connected to the morphed body via z-space, which is how they can fit human intelligence into the brain of an ant. So mental disorders probably wouldn't carry over, because the morpher's mind stays intact and connected to the morphed brain at a distance. I'm not an expert, but doesn't cerebral palsy affect the nervous system? If it is a mental condition, then it shouldn't affect the morpher. If I'm wrong, though, and it's muscular, then I think it would.
Hmm. If my theory is right, morphing could be used to test disorders that are of unknown mental/physical origin. Like people suffering from chronic pain or something.
-
I think cerebral palsy is a nerve disorder. I have a friend who was born with it, and his vocabulary and intelligence not only surpasses my own and most able body people I know, but is greatly astounding. Unfortunately, his disorder hinders his speech.
-
I think mental illnesses might show up in the "instincts", maybe? Like, if you morph someone with ADHD, you wouldn't have full blown ADHD yourself, but you'd have some trouble focusing if you don't get the instincts under control. Similar to the Leeran telepathy, I guess.
-
I don't know a lot about mental illnesses, but when did Attention Deficit Hyperactive Disorder start to count as a mental illness?
-
Hasn't it always been? And why wouldn't it be?
-
It is in the brain.....
-
I don't know. When I think mental illness, I think of people with "special needs". Unless I'm mistaken, people with ADHD can fully function in society. So why should they be hospitalized?
-
If the problem is in their DNA then yes.
-
:s What does that have to do with it?
Unless I'm mistaken, all people with ADHD require to "function" are some meds. If they can walk, talk, or do anything without aid of another person, they are able-bodied and do not require assistance from a hospital.
-
I'm directly answering the question posed at the beginning of this thread.
-
I think mental illnesses might show up in the "instincts", maybe? Like, if you morph someone with ADHD, you wouldn't have full blown ADHD yourself, but you'd have some trouble focusing if you don't get the instincts under control. Similar to the Leeran telepathy, I guess.
That sounds just about right. After all, with most so-called 'disorders,' they are part of a person's personality. And we know from Cassie morphing Rachel in book #12 that the personality does carry over somewhat into the morphed instincts, so it makes sense that stuff like ADHD or OCD would too.
-
What about chronic illnesses? I wasn't born with Crohn's Disease or the other number of illnesses that I got after I was diagnosed. Would morphing heal that?
-
yes as long as you weren't born with it
-
yes as long as you weren't born with it
Exactly. It'd have to be in your blood/DNA for an acquirer to get it.
-
adhd, add, depression, and some other mental disorders are chemical imbalances in the brain. it isn't known why the brain can't balance itself. some of these disorders develop early on and others are a later onset.
i'm just throwing stones here, but it could be that some mental disorders are like diabetes - there's type one, where you're born with it and it's completely genetic and there's type two, where it can be brought on by poor diet and is linked genetically. for those with a type two genetic link, certain actions may delay the onset or even prevent, but there is a high risk.
there has been a lot of talk in the medical field about how vaccines and other drugs may be messing with our chemical makeup. i read one article that suggested that the increase in medicine could be what is causing the increase in chronic allergies. so something could potentially trigger the mental disorder.
how this would affect morphing, i have no idea. like i said, they don't know what causes the disorders and they only partially know what exactly is going on in the brain. but i think if the morpher had a mental issue, they could have problems trying to control the morph.
-
And we know from Cassie morphing Rachel in book #12 that the personality does carry over somewhat into the morphed instincts, so it makes sense that stuff like ADHD or OCD would too.
I refute this statement and offer the following as evidence:
When Ax morphs Jake, and in fact when anyone else morphs any other human, they make no mention of feeling-in Ax's case more responsible or Jake-ish, or any other altered personas.
Again, I'm 99.9464565654732432 34534% positive Cassie was making a joke.
On topic
I don't know disease well, but I gather that in any case it comes down to is the cause do to DNA: Acquire someone with down syndrome, you'll probably have it when you morph, that's a chromosomal thing.
A disease that effects DNA, even if you weren't born with it (though I can't name any), may still occur in a morph.
Also wow title: vecols referring to people. Interesting choice, seems un PC to me
-
This topic caused me to come up with another, related, question. We know the andalite Mertil was allergic to the morphing technology and could not use it. So if someone were to morph Mertil, would they be unable to demorph and get trapped? Or would they be unable to morph Mertil in the first place?
-
What about chronic illnesses? I wasn't born with Crohn's Disease or the other number of illnesses that I got after I was diagnosed. Would morphing heal that?
It depends only on whether or not it's genetic. Early or late onset has nothing to do with it. Gafinilan's illness was late onset, but because it was genetic, he still couldn't morph out of it.
And we know from Cassie morphing Rachel in book #12 that the personality does carry over somewhat into the morphed instincts, so it makes sense that stuff like ADHD or OCD would too.
I refute this statement and offer the following as evidence:
When Ax morphs Jake, and in fact when anyone else morphs any other human, they make no mention of feeling-in Ax's case more responsible or Jake-ish, or any other altered personas.
Again, I'm 99.9464565654732432 34534% positive Cassie was making a joke.
That's a good point. You're probably right, either Cassie was making a joke, or it might have been a KASU. So . . . that probably means that mental conditions would not carry over as instincts, unless perhaps they were extremely severe.
-
there has been a lot of talk in the medical field about how vaccines and other drugs may be messing with our chemical makeup. i read one article that suggested that the increase in medicine could be what is causing the increase in chronic allergies. so something could potentially trigger the mental disorder.
there was one study done. it was poorly conducted, never confirmed, and the "doctor" behind it has since come out and said he was paid to find a link between vaccines and autism.
-
I don't know. When I think mental illness, I think of people with "special needs". Unless I'm mistaken, people with ADHD can fully function in society. So why should they be hospitalized?
Slightly off topic by now, but not all mental illnesses require hospitalisation. Doesn't mean they aren't mental illnesses.
To go back on topic, it is kind of a tricky subject... Some mental illnesses are genetic, but some aren't. Something like, say, Borderline Personality Disorder isn't genetic, so it wouldn't show up in morph. But there's links to ADHD, depression, and OCD being genetic, same with more severe things like schizophrenia. Which I still can't spell right without spell-check, apparently. But yeah, those could show up in the morph's "instincts".
-
I'm directly answering the question posed at the beginning of this thread.
Sorry about that. I figured you were referring to the thread topic a few minutes after I posted my response.
-
there was one study done. it was poorly conducted, never confirmed, and the "doctor" behind it has since come out and said he was paid to find a link between vaccines and autism.
eh, i haven't been following. i'm going off of memory, but whatever i read was about allergies. i think it'd be interesting if they did more research in general about the affect of vaccines.
-
"Special needs"-esque disorders are a complicated issue, actually. Although I shall first establish that due to my own condition, I'm not thrilled with the euphemism at all. It's pretty close to saying someone's retarded, and many people with such disorders (i.e certain kinds of autism) merely have skewed or broken perceptions of reality/senses. Or they interpret what they see differently. :)
But to the issue at hand. I think that genetic mental disorders will inevitably change the mind of whoever has morphed as long as they are in the morphed form. However, they may appear to be altered in a totally different way from the person who truly has the disorder. Let's say for some reason you morph into a person whose reality constantly looks out of focus and whose hearing is in some way too precise or imprecise. Well you'd experience this without a doubt. But how you'd respond is very much up to your personality. Do you panic? Pretend it isn't happening? Try and block out the noise by doing something else? Dance? The possibilities are endless. XD
So depending on the disorder's severity and the person's ability to cope, changes the physical appearance of of the....ehrm..."instincts." :P
-
"Special needs"-esque disorders are a complicated issue, actually. Although I shall first establish that due to my own condition, I'm not thrilled with the euphemism at all. It's pretty close to saying someone's retarded, and many people with such disorders (i.e certain kinds of autism) merely have skewed or broken perceptions of reality/senses. Or they interpret what they see differently. :)
Sorry. I tried to make sure I didn't use any offensive terms or patronizing euphemisms.
-
We'd be interested to see how people with genetic mental disorders change personality-wise when they're in morph. For instance, would my OCD just drop off the map while in morph, and then come back with guns blazing as soon as I demorph? What would happen to a person with genetic Asperger's Syndrome?
-
We'd be interested to see how people with genetic mental disorders change personality-wise when they're in morph. For instance, would my OCD just drop off the map while in morph...
If only it were that easy.
-
In order to figure that out, we'd need to know not only the nature of these conditions, but the nature of these conditions in the animorphs universe. I mean, the mind is what the brain does (cognitive science philosophy) and yet Rachel is still a violent psychopath while in morph, Cassie is still a self righteous hypocrite, Tobias is still Emohawk and David was still a sociopath. All of these have to do with signals/chemicals in the brain and yet they maintain them in morph, so it would make sense for other brain conditions (like ADD) to still affect you in morph, even while morphing humans. However, morphing INTO people with such conditions is where it gets tricky. The best evidence we have, since they mentioned nothing of the instincts from that time the morphed humans, is from when they morph dolphins and when they morph the smart sharks. In those cases, they did mention the brains affecting their personality, so it might make sense for a special needs human brain to affect them as well.
-
This is a bit off topic, but I've never understood the differences between a psychopath and a sociopath.
-
Well its probably listed in a specific medical term but for most people their the same thing
-
Uhm...there's probably a proper explanation of the difference but like he said most people use the terms interchangeably. Although I tend to use them in reverse: I refer to a "sociopath" as somebody whose mental problems would alienate them from the rest of humanity (not necessarily criminal) and a "psychopath" as someone who's criminally insane in that manner. Yes, not all people with antisocial personality disorder are innately hostile. XP Just...really, exceptionally self-centered and obsessed with risky, stimulating endeavors.
You can use whatever system you want, naturally. :)
-
in response from the sociopath vs. psychopath - copied from answers.com:
There is some debate about whether there is a meaningful difference between sociopaths and psychopaths. The DSM IV (Diagnostic and Statistical Manual used by psychologists) lists both under the heading of Anti-social Personality Disorder, and there are different schools of thought on whether they should be treated as distinct. Psychopaths and sociopaths both apparently lack a conscience. Both will engage in behavior that harms others with no feeling of guilt or remorse, and rarely consider the risks to others implicit in their actions. They have an intellectual understanding of pro-social emotions, but seem to feel no emotional bonds with others. The result is that they can seem like perfectly decent and reasonable human beings in most situations, but can take bizarrely inappropriate actions to satisfy perceived insults, fantasies, or mere whims.
Those psychologists who make a distinction between the two usually do so on the basis of organization. Sociopaths are seen as disorganized and rash, making extreme responses to normal situations. They lack impulse control. Psychopaths, by contrast, are highly organized, often secretly planning out and fantasizing about their acts in great detail before actually committing them, and sometimes manipulating people around them.
Another view
Although the Psychological process of denial of Conscience within the MIND of a sociopath and a psychopath is the same dynamic [Esoteric processes], the particular Fate Karma of the individual determines which behavioral expression one engages in, and it is these behavioral expressions that modern mental health focus on and label as either sociopathic or psychopathic.
Of the more distinguishing traits, some argue the sociopath to be less organized in his or her demeanor, nervous and easily agitated - someone likely living on the fringes of society, without solid or consistent economic support. A sociopath is more likely to spontaneously act out in inappropriate ways without thinking through the consequences.
Conversely, some argue that the psychopath tends to be extremely organized, secretive and manipulative. The outer personality is often charismatic and charming, hiding the real person beneath. Though psychopaths do not feel for others, they can mimic behaviors that make them appear normal. Upon meeting, one would have more of a tendency to trust a psychopath than a sociopath.
cause of the organized personality of the psychopath, he or she might have a tendency to be better educated than the average sociopath, who probably lacks the attentive skills to excel in school. While psychopaths can fly under the radar of society, many maintaining families and steady work, a sociopath more often lacks the skills and drive for mimicking normal behavior, making "seemingly healthy" relationships and a stable home less likely. From a criminal standpoint, a sociopath's crimes are typically disorganized and spontaneous, while the psychopath's crimes are well planned out. For this reason, psychopaths are harder to catch than sociopaths, as the sociopath is more apt to leave ample evidence in his or her explosions of violence.
Simple Answer
A psychopath thinks 2+2=5 rather than 2+2=4. A sociopath knows 2+2=4, but hates to admit it.
-
Aw man...It's 1:00 am...I'm not gonna read all that now :P
-
lol, read like the last sentence of the quote then
-
Ah.
Well, +1 Karma for you, for finding that :)
-
The way I've always seen it, which is not 100% in line with scientific opionion, is that a sociopath has an issue with lack of emotion. They may do things we consider bad or even evil, but it is due to lack of caring or understanding. A psycopath on the other hand, is well aware of how "normal" people think and feel, and delights in exploiting that to cause pain.
-
Unless you consider them to be the same thing, the latter person you are describing is a sadist, not a psychopath.
-
Unless you consider them to be the same thing, the latter person you are describing is a sadist, not a psychopath.
I consider sadist to be a description of actions, whereas psycopath is a description of a state of mind. It's not all that relevant as I am not a psychologist I do not need the terms in the real world, and when describing books the DnD spectrum of Lawful/Chaotic and Good/Evil is far more useful than real world terms.
-
< you r so right! Ihadn't thought of that. So if they morph an animal with a diability its had since birth, they would also have that disability! right?>
-
If a person is disabled due to an injury, I assumed that the morphed version would lack that disability. IIRC, Tobias morphed Taylor (a girl maimed in an accident), and the morphed version was uninjured (book 43).