Richard's Animorphs Forum
Animorphs Section => Animorphs Forum Classic => Topic started by: TobiasMasonPark on January 13, 2011, 02:46:27 PM
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A few weeks ago, I was watching an episode of the Big Bang Theory, and Leanord purchases a prop from the H.G. Wells film, the Time Machine. In one scene [in the show] Leanord voices that he wishes he could go back in time and stop himself from buying the machine. To which Sheldon tells him that, should he do so--and assuming that he could-- then he would create a paradox; preventing him from purchasing the time machine would prevent him from going back in time, and thus eliminates his purpose for time traveling. And this has always confused me about time traveling. I mean, if you go back into the past to stop a certain occurance--like buying a time machine-- then your preventing the future action of travelling through time in the first place. It's confusing...I'm not even sure what I just wrote made any sort of sense...But it made me think about the Animorphs, and time travel paradoxes. In megamorphs three, they prevented John Berryman from being born, which seemingly prevents Visser Four from ever acquiring the time matrix, which--since the Animorphs had to use the time matrix, at least to some extent--means that the Animorphs never went back and time and THUS never prevented John Berryman from being born...
So really, the universe--the Animorph's Universe-- should have gone BOOM! from paradox.
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The thing you have to remember about time travel is that it doesn't exist in the sense that science fiction writers want it to. In the contexts of fiction, you could explain away time travel any way you wish and it's perfectly acceptable.
The case of the Grandfather Paradox, which is the example mentioned here, is proposed by a number of universes, including the Time Cop movies. But it doesn't have any effect in the Back to the Future films, or in The Lake House.
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So they end up creating two universes? One where Berryman is still alive, and one where he doesn't exist?
And, speaking of Back to the Future, have you noticed how they spend two movies supporting the theory that changing the events of the past have drastic effects on the future, but they totally go against this theory in the third film when Doc Brown says "The future hasn't been written yet--no ones has." But, unless I'm mistaken, didn't they GO to the future in the second film?
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Actually, if you want to go super technical, the future hasn't happened yet so one can't travel into it.
There's a story I read in an anthology once that was really funny. It was based on the idea that if you travel into the future, once you return to your own time you'll have no memory of the trip since paradoxically the trip could never have happened.
I won't spoil the story because if you ever get a chance to read it, it's actually quite funny.
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But they DID go to the future :P In the second film.
The Animorphs thought they went to the future in book seven, but that turned out to be an illusion of some sorts--one of the many possibilities that exist.
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Back to the Future is full of plotholes. You could make a drinking game out of it.
For example, they establish the butterfly effect as being instantaneous in the first film. The minute Marty begins interfering with his mother meeting his father, his siblings begin fading. (Ever wonder why they fade first, since he was the youngest of the McFly clan?) We even see that he begins to fade as George gets pushed aside in the final dance sequence, only to stand up for himself, thus reassuring that Marty is in fact born.
So why doesn't the almanac from the future or the hoverboard fade out of existence if the future never happened?
You could go all day pointing out gaps like that.
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As far as Animorphs goes, the Time Matrix was actually stated to have a paradox prevention mechanism, as such the timeline of the people using it is protected, which allows them to change things around them without being subject to the grandfather paradox.
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Anything with time travel in has plot holes. If something has time travel in, just stop trying to understand it, because you never will.
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Phoenix004 has a point.
NateSean, what was the name of that story?
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Yeah, there are definitely issues there and in TAC. I remember the Ellimist intervened in TAC when they used the Time Matrix, but I don't remember if he was involved in MM3...?
I liked the way time travel worked in Harry Potter, where you couldn't change anything...
As far as Animorphs goes, the Time Matrix was actually stated to have a paradox prevention mechanism, as such the timeline of the people using it is protected, which allows them to change things around them without being subject to the grandfather paradox.
What book is that in?
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My favorite idea about time travel is that it cannot exist, because we know from our own history that there were not thousands of spectators from the future at every key historical event!
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Anything with time travel in has plot holes. If something has time travel in, just stop trying to understand it, because you never will.
Precisely.
In fact, I'm writing a time travel story, and I'm having a hard time while at it...somethings can just never be explained.
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NateSean, what was the name of that story?
I'll sniff around and see if I can find what anthology I read it in. Might even be able to get it online. I only know it wasn't Ray Bradbury.
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Yeah, there are definitely issues there and in TAC. I remember the Ellimist intervened in TAC when they used the Time Matrix, but I don't remember if he was involved in MM3...?
I liked the way time travel worked in Harry Potter, where you couldn't change anything...
As far as Animorphs goes, the Time Matrix was actually stated to have a paradox prevention mechanism, as such the timeline of the people using it is protected, which allows them to change things around them without being subject to the grandfather paradox.
What book is that in?
Megamorphs 3,
[spoiler]the part where they go back to erase Visser 4's host, and find that his parents are still there, and still hippies despite all the changes, there is a throw away line about the user having their timeline protected.[/spoiler]
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My favorite idea about time travel is that it cannot exist, because we know from our own history that there were not thousands of spectators from the future at every key historical event!
True, but I never liked that theory, mainly because it implies time travel will never happen (which would really suck). On the other hand, you'd think by the time we create time travel, invisibility would be pretty easy to invent in comparison...
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My advice when writing about time travel is the same as writing about vampires.
Figure out the rules in your universe before you start writing. Work out everything you're going to use in the context of your story. Ignore what everyone else has done and don't think too much about it.
Stick with those rules.
If you break those rules for any reason, make sure the audience knows why.
Pretty simple, really.
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My favorite idea about time travel is that it cannot exist, because we know from our own history that there were not thousands of spectators from the future at every key historical event!
What little serious work that his been put into travel suggests is that if time travel is possible, it is linked to the machine, and as such, you cannot travel to a point before the machine existed.
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By "serious" I assume you mean scientific. In which case, without said machine to prove the point, it is superfluous.
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Traveling to the past could take place from a limited free-will view, perhaps, that way it would be as though you weren't truly there, but only watching it. But that would stink. No character interaction, something I'd really want. Traveling to the future...if I do that in what I'm working on (assuming I stick with it!), the time traveler will most likely not remember the whole thing, since it really didn't happen, and that way he wouldn't be able to make great predictions in time and so on.
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All I have to say here is wibbly-wobbly-timey-wimey.
Time travel is confusing.
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To aswer the first question, the animorphs were actually taken from the original timeline, Crayak and the ellimist kept them excluded from any further changes in the timeline including v4's erasure from existance. Also you have to remember that the time matrix isn't a time machine as much as a reality warper, hence the mashup world and lauren's 'I'm 18 now' in TAC. That wouldn't have worked with a delorean, BttF rules don't apply. Which brings me to the bit about the future. Yes you can see the future, but then you change it just for having seen it. Flashforward, the book more then the show, explains the concept pretty well using quantum physics.
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Just a question as to not get off subject...does anyone know where there's a thread for Time Travel?
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I found this company some time ago. Some of their stuff works and is pretty cool, but I have never been bored/crazy/reckless enough to buy any of their time travel stuff
Future Horizons-Advanced Technology- is a small research and developtment group dedicated to making secret, supressed and controversial information accessible to interested individuals. Our goal is to develop new advanced technologies and concepts and help move mankind into the 21st century and beyond.
http://www.futurehorizons.net/ (http://www.futurehorizons.net/)
http://www.futurehorizons.net/time.htm (http://www.futurehorizons.net/time.htm)
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My advice when writing about time travel is the same as writing about vampires.
Figure out the rules in your universe before you start writing. Work out everything you're going to use in the context of your story. Ignore what everyone else has done and don't think too much about it.
Stick with those rules.
If you break those rules for any reason, make sure the audience knows why.
Pretty simple, really.
Agreed. I don't care which rules you go with as long as you stick with them. It really annoys me when they establish rules and then break them without explanation.
A classic scenario being the idea of going back and changing something to affect the present; fair enough. However, you can't do that and also have things affect the present BEFORE you go back and change them. I know time travel tends to make cause and effect confusing, but you can't just alternate between the two without at least trying to explain it.
We do actually have a http://animorphsforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=6671.0 thread in General, so unless anyone has anything to add that's Animorphs related, we should post there. Or I could merge the threads if you prefer.
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Do whatever you'd like, Phoenix. You're the boss.
As a little side note, it's funny how the Animorphs go back in time like...three times? (The Forgotten, Megamorphs 2 and 3?) But rarely change anything. Sure, in Megamorphs 2, they end the Mercora race, but that's not exactly changing anything since the asteroid/meteroite/comet (I honestly don't know the difference, so excuse my ignorance) collided into Earth and wiped out the Dinosaurs. So really, all the Animorphs books with Time Travel were just a slap in the face :P
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Actually, if you want to go super technical, the future hasn't happened yet so one can't travel into it.
There's a story I read in an anthology once that was really funny. It was based on the idea that if you travel into the future, once you return to your own time you'll have no memory of the trip since paradoxically the trip could never have happened.
I won't spoil the story because if you ever get a chance to read it, it's actually quite funny.
Found it. I owe someone on a writing forum for helping me find this and here's the link. ;)
http://books.google.com/books?id=1M0Y2RYqffIC&pg=PA199&lpg=PA199&dq=The+Business,+as+Usual+Mack+Reynolds&source=bl&ots=T2v8Dfx-to&sig=rd87mjTIz4d2Kja1YGjDjask5L8&hl=en&ei=HcaYTYX-OPO90QGC77XwCw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CBUQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=The%20Business%2C%20as%20Usual%20Mack%20Reynolds&f=false
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OK first off a comet is a piece of flying ice/metal/dust in space that's in an orbit so unless something goes wrong comets don't hit anything. I think asteroids and meteoroids are the same thing just that one is still in space and one is in orbit. And the solution that some writers come up with is a time machine that you step inside and teleports not only you but it self to said destination. And in theory time travel is completely possible but if we made a machine it would take so much energy that the entire world would be drained of resources. The power needed at my guess would require a nuclear reactor the size of the moon. But then again I don't trust theory so we may find some unique energy source to power one. Now discuss my minions.
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What little serious work that his been put into travel suggests is that if time travel is possible, it is linked to the machine, and as such, you cannot travel to a point before the machine existed.
I just don't get that. When traveling to the past, isn't the machine taken with the traveler?
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Yes, but one small malfuntion would cause you to be stranded with andrew jackson. The risk is completely insane.
On a different note, time travel is impossible. At least, the changing of events is. You cannot change history, because it is set in stone.
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Not Andrew Jackson. That guy is such a jerk. Your best bet is to find Winston Churchill, he rocks.