Richard's Animorphs Forum
Animorphs Section => Animorphs Forum Classic => Topic started by: CounterInstinct on September 14, 2010, 09:19:46 PM
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What changes should be made to Cassie so that she would be a much more likeable character? A dark side perhaps? She was known to be a hypocrite in her morals, but was never elaborated more on in the series. Early on, she was also pointed by Marco to have the capability to be the most manipulating of the Animorphs. Do you think a side like that should have been played with a bit more?
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I don't know if I would really change that much about Cassie, so much as change how the plot acts around her. It's really lucky that Karen, Aftran's former host, was not killed or reinfested to the point of being a plot hole. I would also not give her so many solo missions compared to the other Anis. I would have Rachel tell her off about David in 48 and make her come along to see what her choice at the end of the trilogy did. I would also not have Tobias tell Jake it was beyond wrong of him to (accidentally) exclude her from a group meeting after she gave the Yeerks the morphing device.
She does have faults, and that's good, but it's just that I feel she isn't really called out enough on them, and the plot swings her way when it really shouldn't.
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I'd change her luck. No matter what things always work out for Cassie. I really want her to be wrong about something
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I would make her a little less perfect, as well. In some books I found her to be borderline Mary Sue, to be honest. Come on, the sub-temporally grounded estreen who is practically psychic? And her biggest screw-up, giving the Yeerks the escafil device, magically turns out to be something that works in the Animorphs' favor a book later. (But you know, it kind of indirectly gets Rachel killed, but nobody mentions that.)
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Basically what everyone else has said. Sure, she's annoying with her morals, but that kind of character definitely has an important place in the Animorphs story. We needed Cassie to be there. But it would have been much cooler to have something not work out for her, some kind of point in the story where she realized that she had to put her ideals on the backburner for a while if they were gonna win this war. It seems like KA wanted her to remain the untainted soldier, which is a cool idea to play with, but it's just not very realistic. It's war, every soldier is going to become tainted by what they see and do sadly.
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I would change the fact that she existed
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Naw, you can't hate her enough that you wish she was never there. She's not that bad, and this is coming from a guy who considers her action in book 50 to be nothing less than complete betrayal, and doesn't give her any credit for the final victory against the Yeerks.
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no.. really..
it wouldn't make a difference. *shrug*
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I don't think she needs changing; she had her role and she played it well. The reason she was able to manipulate so well is because she was so skilled at reading people. She didn't enjoy using that talent to her advantage, but sometimes she was forced to do what was necessary.
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I wouldnt change a thing about Cassie, but that's probably cuz I'm one of the few Anifans to like her enough to call her one of my favorites :P I realize she's probably the biggest Mary Sue I've ever seen but she has her moments where she makes me wanna stop reading and just start clapping for her. Like when David attacked the Anis in the middle of an underwater mission and she comes out of nowhere and saves them in her Whale morph. I'm still a little uncertain as to why she felt the need to let Tom get away with the cube, or why she thought Jake would kill Tom when he could have easily subdued him in his Tiger morph without hurting him, I think that whole bit was just KA not thinking
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What would I change? Absolutely nothing. I liked her character a lot, and would go as far as to say she's tied for my favorite character with one other. I appreciate all that weird 'karma'/'luck' of hers: it's something metaphysical in a world of science-fiction. Her morals don't bother me at all. Hypocritical? Face it, everyone is. To me it just makes her more believable as a character.
I just don't understand how people don't like her. And I certainly don't get why everyone is in love with Rachel.
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I think rachel has become kind of a woobie because of her death.
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I'd change her luck. No matter what things always work out for Cassie. I really want her to be wrong about something
Same. I couldn't stop raging, even as a kid, when he trapped herself as a caterpillar to save one person, when her life could save countless others. Then she gets out of it for something that I knew to be scientifically inaccurate in grade school, and on top of that, has the yeerk become an important ally. If I had that kind of luck I'd have hit the lottery by now.
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I agree with dolphin4077 and ThinkAgain. But I'd have settled for her to not just have all these totally amazing superpowers...
No wait. Y'know what would have really helped? Cassie got lots of cool plots and Rachel always seemed to get stuck with books I was bored with. I mean, okay, they both got Helmacron books and OF those two Rachel got the better one, but Cassie had lots of plot-essential or development stuff (rescuing Ax, Aftran being rescued from the pool) and I can't think of a single Rachel book I was apt to read over and over and over.
And I mean, Rachel's not my favorite character either, but as far as book plots go she had some of the most boring ones ever IMO. Cassie had a lot of the cool ones. Ax got short-changed in book plots sometimes too - kinda unfair because like Tobias he didn't have tons of awesome books.
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The last one in the David Trilogy was a pretty cool Rachel book.
Rereading the series Rachel is actually one of my fave characters. She basically is suffering from what we might all suffer from, she just wants the war to be over, and is prepared to do much worse stuff than the others.
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But does she really want the war to be over? Do people here subscribe to the idea that she really does love the fight, or that she's just prepared to do more to speed up its end?
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I really don't get how Cassie is the most hated character when Jake doesn't even get interesting until 53 books in, but whatevsies.
Personally, I love Cassie. I love that she's a hypocrite and self-righteous, because flaws are what makes characters interesting. How boring would it be if Rachel wasn't an abrasive action junkie, if Marco wasn't an uncooperative jerk, if Tobias wasn't an angst factory with a martyr complex, if Ax didn't start off unquestioningly loyal to a society that makes crappy decisions? I think a lot of people take exception to the way Cassie is never cussed out by the others, but really, she is, usually by Marco and Rachel. Off the top of my head she gets cussed out in #16, #19, #28, #50 and #52 in fairly significant way. Compare that to, say, Marco, who blows their cover twice and never gets called out for it.
I generally think that the others put up with Cassie's moralizing because they're kids. Kids tend to draw arbitrary lines in the sand as to what is or isn't okay without really thinking about the long-term consequences, and kids tend to lift others onto pedestals and accept their declarations of morals as absolute truths. Especially in a war scenario, they need to feel like at least one of them knows where the line is, so that Cassie can tell the others when they're going too far. So it's not that Cassie's beyond reproach, just that they've set her up to be the good guy, so if they want to play the bad guy and call her out, they've got to have a really good reason. I don't really think that's Cassie's fault so much as the group psychology of the team. As much as they've designated Rachel, and to an extent Marco, as the bad guys, they've also set up Cassie to be the good one, so they can all measure where they fall on a moral scale in relation to each other. To them, the fact that Cassie's still with them stands as a testament to the fact that they're still the good guys - that's why everyone reacts so harshly to her decision to quit in #19, because they not only take it as a betrayal but as her calling them immoral.
Am I making any sense?
Anyway, I think Cassie is probably one of the most accurate to her age range. I feel like she's the one who tends to make the stupid mistakes (1234-5678), shift blame around, act on desperate and well-intentioned impulses (#19, #50), and put short-term goals (not killing, protecting Jake) over long-term successes (winning the war, keeping the morphing box). And it's not like her morals don't shift over the series. Certainly she doesn't get a big dramatic shift like Ax's "I betray the Andalites!" or Jake's sending James' people to die, but she does start going along with more and more morally questionable things. I mean, in #43 she refuses to blow up the Yeerk Pool. In #52, she's one of the people riding the subway on in.
I MEAN WHATEVER. TEAM CASSIE YO.
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The thing about Jake is that even though he's a bit bland, he isn't abrasive either. I don't dislike him because there's not much to really dislike about him. I don't really like him because aside from leadership abilities which any one of them could have with enough effort there really isn't anything about him that stands out.
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Exactly. As the stereotypical leader character, Jake's just kind of...well, he's there. That's about it for most of us I think, that's how it is for me anyway. He's the same to me as say Cyclops from X-Men or Leonardo from the TMNT. They're the leaders that are always going to be the one you turn to in a crisis, but they're usually not the most interesting of characters, even if they're arguably the most important one to a story (I'm assuming on the X-Men front though, cuz if the live-action movies showed us anything, it's that Wolverine's more important :P). There's always that background character who's funny (Marco, Ice-Man, Michelangelo), or the one who kicks a lot of butt (Rachel, Wolverine, Raphael) who's far more interesting and gets more fan-love.
Bringing this back to Cassie though, Jake is a lot blander than her, but since he is just the required leader, nobody really smacks him with it. Cassie's preaching love in a war, which is a good thing, someone has to do that. But there's times to where she really should have just given it up and fought as hard as the rest of them, I believe that if she'd done that, events in the end of the series would have turned out much happier. Rachel would have been alive probably, because the Yeerks never would have had morphing power, for example.
Though, I do like that they gave them the power to morph to become nothlits later. And from an 'upping the ante' point of view, giving them the power to morph before then was a really cool idea. It was just a bad move on Cassie's part.
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Most of my issues with Cassie could have easily never shown up with just a little editing of her pieces and a lot of editing of Rachel books so I felt that a wider variety of the books by all characters would be things I would actually be willing to just go out and read at some points. As my avvie might suggest to some people, I actually do pick up the Cassie books a lot. I think, plot-wise, she's given a lot of the best material aside from Marco.
Jake is bland (I know, I'm trying to narrate with him right now) but he often got cool plots, IMO. So he doesn't come off as unlikable. I mean, he got #6 which has to be my favorite book or really close to it. And it doesn't even have an adequate amount of Ax in it because he's playing Jake most of the time. So that says a lot.
Because, as one *might* think based on my avvie, if it doesn't have Ax in it, it's hardly worth reading.
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Well, Jake's "blandness" what makes him real as well, like how you say Cassie is a real character. He's your average joe, with average grades, average athletic ability, and an average family. Then BAM! He gets to lead the only force hindering Earth's enslavement. It's as if Chad29 suddenly became the leader of the Animorphs. 8)
He's a pretty interesting character too. Many people dislike book 11 because of the Sario Rip plot, but it gives us an idea on how mentally difficult Jake's position is. He takes blame of anything wrong that happens, and that just shows how leaders must be. Leaders shouldn't just order around, but should be responsible for their decisions, and most importantly should be willing to do the very things he orders. This Jake subtly implies throughout the series.
And to Cassie, like other people already said, her "imperfectness" was ruined by being right every single time.
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It's as if Chad29 suddenly became the leader of the Animorphs.
Yeah!....Wait. What?
Yes, Jake is kind of a classic protagonist. One of those with a nice peaceful if boring life when something happens suddenly that changes his world forever. You see this in video games like Legend of Zelda, and whatnot.
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I would change the fact that she existed
ME TOO! she totally dragged down the series
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And to Cassie, like other people already said, her "imperfectness" was ruined by being right every single time.
Exactly. It could have easily been changed so that wouldn't work. My original response was :tldr: and included some of the things that would make me feel better reading about her as an adult, but that's the basic truth. She had lots of abilities, basically all her decisions end up all right (the same cannot be said of Jake, Marco, Rachel, Tobias, Ax, or anyone else - even if they manage to recover from it) and sometimes the other characters' moralities were toned down just so Cassie could make a self-righteous statement. (MM#2... Because Marco really is a complete sociopath and believes morals don't really exist??? Among other examples...)
And then at least all the other characters had some cool books and plots. Rachel had essentially zero. I know people disagree with me here, but I basically thought #2, #7, #12, #17... Wait let me fix this: Other than the Crayak book (maaaaybe) and The Solution I felt most of Rachel's narrations were just a huge, gigantic waste of time. I don't ever sit there and go, "Hey, you know what would be a really fun read right now, a [insert Rachel-book title here]." And it has nothing to do with her being a bad character. Her plots just, IMO, generally suck as far as plot, series development, and often character development go.
Cassie definitely develops and changes and molds as a character, has a lot of plots that I think are cool (peoples' problems with The Prophecy aside because let's face it, it had huge potential had it been written properly), but she's a superhero more than anyone else. They could have easily not made her such a superhero. Instead of accomplishing morphing miracles in spite of Aldrea, she could have accomplished a morphing miracle no Andalite has ever accomplished with Aldrea's help. Some of her decisions just maybe could blow up in her face more than ultimately being the right decision, make it a hassle for the rest of the team (as often happens with Jake or Marco or Rachel or occasionally even Ax.)
I don't wish Cassie didn't exist. And my ability to like Cassie could have easily been fixed, with some editing. As it is, Cassie is not my favorite character. Used to be in the top three, now is in the bottom three. But I mean... They're still Animorphs :3
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I agree with most of your post, and it does seem like Rachel gets a lot of filler books, though 7 introduced the Ellemist. 17 was the one that introduced Drode, wasn't it? Awesome villain.
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27 is the introduction of the Drode, whom I've personally never seen the appeal of. He has some good lines in #27 and then is never utilized well again, not to mention you have to wade through waist-deep obnoxious waste to find his good zingers.
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stfu Rachel had AWESOME early books
honestly i felt like the only filler book pre-ghostwriting was #11. #2 introduced the Chapmans, which opened the door for an interesting sub-plot that was never fleshed out and revealed Rachel's motivations for fighting. #7 developed her character with the conflict with her dad, introduced the Ellimist, and they DESTROYED THE KANDRONA. hello, huge setback for the yeerks.
#12 and #17 weren't major plot books, but i love reading them because they're REAL Rachel. early Rachel is an awesome character, like i've always said, #21 still gives me chills. #27 and #32 were not as good as they could've been, #48 was an embarassment, and #37 is unspeakable.
rachel ftw
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what i hated most about cassie was that she gave this big hypocritical spiel about how killing hostless yeerks was bad, cruel and evil; yadda yadda. yet she didnt have the same reserve for killing the host to kill the yeerk. DESPITE knowing the host was a slave to the yeerk being forced to do evil things, and who other wise would be a peaceful non violent person. wth?
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Hm, I have to disagree with you on the Rachel books, Alex. I found that most of Rachel's narrations were quite interesting as far as plot and character development went (especially 7, 22 and even the dreaded 48). I think her personality helped to carry quite a few of the plots that were more abysmal (#32, for example). She was relatable to young readers in a way that Cassie just wasn't able to be.
On the other hand, many of Cassie's books, despite important events occurring (like #4, the discovery of Ax) fail to capture my interest. The better points of the plot are overwhelmed with moral rationalizing and it really becomes grating after awhile. That said, there are definite exceptions to the rule: #19 and #29 are two of my favorite books in the series.
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#19 is one of the most vital books in the series, to me.
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19 is definitely a pivotal book. No doubt there. I kind of wish the YPM was fleshed out more, though.
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Sure #19 is VITAL to the plot that was told, but it's also introduces headache inducing plot holes like why the little girl was NEVER reinfested or even ever really mentioned again (the concept of 'just don't tell anyone you aren't a yeerk anymore' is abysmally dumb, to me).
The entire 'cassie's moralism saves the world' thing was just the writer bending the plot to fit rather than thinking at all logically, and the amount of times Cassie 'happens to be right' or is 'proven right in the end' or has anyone who happens to disagree with her made out to be this terrible person is what makes me hate her so much.
That and the fact that I hold her personally responsible for the deaths of Rachel and all those Auxiliary Animorphs. "So you stop Jake from possibly fatally wounding his brother, something there is very little chance he'd actually have to do to just 'stop' him, and ended up handing the yeerks Andalite technology that up to then they had NEVER had before outside of Visser 3 AND gave up what was essentially your only remaining advantage. Nice job, hypocrite."
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"So you stop Jake from possibly fatally wounding his brother, something there is very little chance he'd actually have to do to just 'stop' him, and ended up handing the yeerks Andalite technology that up to then they had NEVER had before outside of Visser 3 AND gave up what was essentially your only remaining advantage. Nice job, hypocrite."
yes! i mean, jake was a freakin tiger, tom was in a pathetic weak human body and he was unarmed. there is no way jake woulda had to kill tom. one swipe of that paw with the claws sheathed woulda sent tom flying and the cube woulda been his. yet another huge plot hole as well as another reason cassie's hypocricy destroyed the mission
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stfu Rachel had AWESOME early books
I disagree with that highly. I think she's an awesome character but that her plots all sucked. If I don't read kids her books for the most part, I can explain what happened in her books (the important developments... when there are any... which relevant to the series arc there often isn't...) in like... Ten seconds. Maybe thirty for things like #7 where the Ellimist pops up.
I was really ticked off at the inequity of characters getting cool plots. And IMO Rachel was ripped off plot-wise more than any of the other characters. She's not in my top three, but that's the main reason why - the plots she got stuck with.
If she wasn't an awesome character, I wouldn't have read most of her books the first time... Heh.
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I agree with both Kitulean and Kit Kat. It's well established that a Human controller, even armed with a dracon, could not defeat a tiger and wolf. I also know that Cassie was not thinking ahead when she did that, and it was just the author that made things work out.
I don't know why Karen was not reinfested or killed. It's established back in book 8 that the Yeerks are very particular about Humans that know too much. They are not left alone.
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I was about to ask how we know for sure that Karen wasn't re-infested, but if I recall Cassie checks on her at the end of the book right? Then again, is there anyway of saying for sure that she wasn't taken again later in the timeline?
On the other hand, many of Cassie's books, despite important events occurring (like #4, the discovery of Ax) fail to capture my interest. The better points of the plot are overwhelmed with moral rationalizing and it really becomes grating after awhile. That said, there are definite exceptions to the rule: #19 and #29 are two of my favorite books in the series.
That's my whole problem in a nutshell. Maybe if she hadn't been so overbearingly vocal in her morals? It was good that she had them more than the others, but there's few things I hate more than having a 'message' shoved down my throat, and that's what Cassie does every book she's the lead in.
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Karen knew who Cassie was. If she had been reinfested, then all the anis would have been captured quickly. So she was either killed offscreen, moved and hidden, the Yeerks forgot about her (highly unlikely), or she was reinfested at the last minute and the Yeerks already knew what Karen knew.
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Ohh...right, duh. I forgot about her knowing the Animorphs too. ^_^;
Having them have to hide her or them re-infesting her near the end when it's all in the open would both be interesting routes that I'd have liked to see taken.
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Cassie was the groups ethical concious, I think her only flaw was that sometimes she didn't face the reality of the situation.
-When she let the yeerks have the morphing device she was only thinking of the consequences on Jake, not for the war.
-In book 16 when Visser three's brother tells them how he survives she asks Jake to kill him, because she can't bring herself to do it.
She also lucks out way too much, first the morphing device introduces a new way of survival for the yeerks, second when the animorphs have a chance to take out the yeerk pool and it turns out to be a trap she is the one who shuts it off because of the YPM.
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I wonder if I'm the only one who laughed in book 16 when Cassie said she was a horrible person for telling a kid he couldn't trust a controller. She said he couldn't trust his father because he's infested, and the kid is well aware of what a Yeerk is. Yes he's young enough to think a wolf is a dog, but old enough to follow a chatroom conversation. I guess that's what TV Tropes calls Narm. Something meant to be serious, but is actually really funny.
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I'd honestly never looked at it that way before Chad, LOL. Good point.
Then again, that was always something else I liked seeing tackled in these books though, were that kids could understand and handle more than adults give them credit for.
Back on topic, if pressed to where I did have to pick a favorite book/moment for Cassie, to counter-point some of the bad I've pointed out, I guess I'd have to say...#34 The Prophecy, though that's partly cheating since my favorite bits of that are the parts more with Aldrea.