Richard's Animorphs Forum
Animorphs Section => Animorphs Forum Classic => Topic started by: gocorygogo on August 02, 2010, 04:34:28 PM
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I was with my friends the other discussing morphs and which characters use which morphs. And we got on the subject of Cassie and her wolf morph...All of the animorphs have wolves in their repertoire (except maybe Tobias, I'm not sure). And they each have their own specialized battle morph that the others do not own; Jake has tiger, Marco has gorilla, Rachel has two, her grizzly & her elephant. so why doesn't Cassie have her own morph? she could have acquired a leopard, lion or a hyena, but yet she sticks with the group wolf morph. My personal opinion is Cassie doesn't like to stand out, she likes to stay amongst the crowd and deny that she is special, even when book after book she demonstrates exempt morphing skills. She always says she doesn't think she's anything special (although Jake would disagree ;) ). She is always commenting on how pretty Rachel is, She mentions that Marco is kinda cute (but not her type). It could be subconscious and pacifist nature showing through. Cassie could feel intimidated around all these-to her anyways-beutiful people. Could be a defense mechanism to be as unnoticeable and inconspicuous as possible... Maybe I'm reading too much into it. Would do you think?
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I'm not sure. The wolf gets some flak from people, but it's really not that bad a choice when you have Jake and rachel filling the roles of brute force. It's true that everyone has a battle morph, but before book 3 she didn't really have anything besides a horse. It was the best thing she had, and she didn't go out and find anything else.
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I think Cassie is modest but confident. She is comfortable with who she is; it's why she resists shopping trips at the mall, and it's why she continually stands up for her beliefs, even when they are highly unpopular.
I agree with Chad: wolf is hardly a bad battle morph choice. It has several strengths that the others' morphs do not.
- It has great stamina. Where as Jake is always complaining about tiring out, Cassie's wolf morph takes significantly longer to wear out.
- It is subtle; from a distance, it might be a German shepherd, and it is small enough that it can slip by unnoticed far easier than a gorilla, elephant, tiger, or Andalite.
- It is quick and has great hearing and vision, which is something only a tiger and hawk (and arguable an Andalite) have; Cassie can see what is coming and react to it far more quickly than Marco or Rachel.
In my opinion, Cassie's battle morph is somewhat similar to Tobias's in a lot of ways (it is built for stealth, speed, and observation, as well as attacking), but it's much more versatile, as it is land-based.
I think it's fair for us to read into her subconscious by examining her choice, but I think the morph is a logical one that complements the team well, and that coupled with a refutation of the presentation of Cassie as an intimidated and insecure figure suggests to me that she chose the morph for positive reasons.
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I believe that's partially why there is so much Cassie hate out there, she has no unique morphs(until the later books i suppose). I know it makes sense to stick with what works, but it just seems like the easy way out. She remarked in #4 that using creatures' bodies to use for your own needs is similar to what the yeerks do...Perhaps that's why she's reluctant to obtain new morphs for fighting. I can't help but feel there is subtext there.
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Dude, let's not get into the "morphing things is like Yeerk infestation" topic. That's one of the worst things about Cassie in my opinion.
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Gocorygogo, I see what you're saying about her avoiding acquiring more morphs than is necessary, but I don't know if this explanation necessarily stands.
First, she uses morphs for personal pleasure just as much as everyone else; Jake's the one who hounds the group the most on this point, but he gives in too. They're all pretty much equally hypocritical on this account.
Second, the wolf morph seems an odd choice for someone of Cassie's pacific values, considering it has a very nitty-gritty and personal style of attack.
I think she used the morph because it made tactical sense, not because she had an aversion to acquiring one more animal for the purpose of fighting the Yeerks. If she had wanted something less personal in the way it killed (even Rachel's elephant is less personal -- it's less gruesome to stomp someone when you can't see a darn thing than to launch your entire body at them and bite open their neck like Cassie had to do), I don't think she would've had qualms about acquiring it.
I'm not trying to say we can't read into Cassie's psyche by examining her battle morph, but there's a simple explanation of it being a good complement to the team that makes more sense to me than "she's worried about acquiring more animals" or "she's insecure around her friends."
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Dude, let's not get into the "morphing things is like Yeerk infestation" topic. That's one of the worst things about Cassie in my opinion.
Yeah. Of "reasons for Cassie falling as my favorite character post-childhood" her lack of personal morph specialties has never occurred to me, but that argument didn't help.
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Dude, let's not get into the "morphing things is like Yeerk infestation" topic. That's one of the worst things about Cassie in my opinion.
natch.
I know it's simple and useful for Cassie to use the wolf. I think my main problem with it is variety: From a simply reader's point of view, I crave uniqueness and something fresh. And I suppose I'm stating a moot point considering that she is a fictitious character and that her neuroticism is all a concoction of the author of the book. but then again she's a fictitious character in my favorite books, so maybe that's why I'm so into this topic...
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Fair enough :D
Yeah, I think it's a very interesting question. It's just that none of the subconscious examinations of Cassie submitted so far ring true to me, personally. But I definitely think you're on to something by giving it more value than the "it's simple and useful" explanation I've been giving.
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if you notice, all the animorphs have morphs they like and dislike, maybe cassie just took a shining to the wolf morph? marco has used it for battle on occasion as well. cassie doesnt particularly like fighting, so i cant really see her going out of her way to get a better battle morph. she had one that worked, so she didnt get a new one when the other animorphs did.
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All true. As I said previously; I'm probably reading too much into it. But I do like to analyze things, so maybe that's it. So how about this:If you had to decide for Cassie to have a different battle morph other than the wolf (although still have access to it for other things), What animal would you pick and why? I've thought about this before and I rather like the speed and cunning of the wolf so maybe another canine perhaps?
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Something that can just knock enemies out instead of killing them. The main problem I have with Cassie using the wolf is that her only method of attack is ripping someone's throat out. I think a Gorilla would be good, but marco took that. Although I think a wolf might suit Marco pretty well. He's a strategic thinker, and as a wolf he has multiple powerful senses and can be all over the place in a battle. Plus ripping throats out wouldn't go against a ruthless nature.
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technical point; Rachel's elephant isn't unique: Tobias, Ax, and Cassie all pick it up in # 22
And that's my Ani-nerd OCD moment for the day
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Oh, that's a good idea with the tough animals...Perhaps a rhino or a buffalo(although the buffalo thing didn't work out so well with Cassie last time...On second thought...)
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It was unique for 22 books, and the others rarely if ever use those morphs again.
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I think it's pretty important to keep a diverse pool. If everyone goes in the same morph, they're likely to run into problems since everybody has the exact same set of strengths and weaknesses. The lack of flexibility could be critical. The wolf is the weakest in terms of raw strength and one-on-one odds, but best in terms of senses and stamina (I think), so I think it's pretty important that someone be the wolf, and it suits Cassie best.
I think KA picked the animals for a reason. Jake's tiger was king of the jungle and the strongest cat on Earth (I don't know how he lost against David's lion, there were lots of tiger vs. lion matches in history, most betting games by the rich and royal, and the tiger always won), suiting his leader status. Rachel's grizzly was the largest of all and had massive strength, fitting Rachel's firepower logic. Marco's gorilla also had great strength and flexible primate hands, and it looks sort of funny. Cassie's wolf was more like the ears and nose for the team.
...But it always kinda bugged me why Cassie didn't acquire the cheetah in #19 when she had the chance. Though later it proved that cheetahs had serious stamina problems (and lets face it, the wolf complements the team better), it was way better than the wolf for a duel, and it's hard to imagine that she'll never need to go one-on-one.
Tobias' hawk was necessary for the same reason. It's pretty weak in terms of firepower but they needed sky surveillance. The war is impossible to win with brute force, you need flexibility and Tobias was pretty much their map for each landscape.
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...But it always kinda bugged me why Cassie didn't acquire the cheetah in #19 when she had the chance. Though later it proved that cheetahs had serious stamina problems (and lets face it, the wolf complements the team better), it was way better than the wolf for a duel, and it's hard to imagine that she'll never need to go one-on-one.
19 had a leopard, not a cheetah. Now I don't think she was ever in much of a position to acquire it in that book, and while I agree it'd be superior to a wolf in many respects, once you're comfortable with something change for only a marginal advantage.
Though I don't see how a cheetah would be better in this "duel" fast, but don't think it's any stronger than a wolf pound for pound. That's a cat that kills by strangling, wolf tears out the vitals, which seems much more effective against a bladed alien
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Jake losing was likely just because KA wanted him to lose. I did watch a show that said Lions were likely to win against Tigers because a Lion's job is fighting. They don't have to spend time hunting. Though I guess if historically Tigers tended to win, and Jake had so much more experience, there really isn't a good reason for Jake losing.
As for Cassie, she's a weird case. Back when they first went to get their battle morphs, Cassie (and Tobias) didn't really get anything. That's why they were done faster than Jake and Marco. Now the wolf isn't really a bad morph, but there are probably better options out there. She really wasn't interested in fighting. This is a big contrast to Rachel, who explicitly has two battle morphs once she gets her Bear.
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Its shown to be tough enough to take down a Hork Bajir, which to me is really the standard of minimum force these morphs should be evaluated by. Cassie's limitations are definitely on full display in the books, but prowess in battle has never been shown to be one of them.
It, as others have said, also has advantages like endurance and flexibility (its small size compared to others is an advantage in some situations provided its strong enough to take down enemies).
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It is a bit odd that she'd choose a morph that is forced to go for the throat just to make a difference in a fight. As opposed to Maco's Gorilla, that could use his hands to restrain something nonlethally.
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Well maybe David's lion was stronger than Jake's tiger, individually, but the average or prime Siberian tiger should defeat the average or prime African lion. It might come close, but in general terms Jake has the strongest cat on Earth.
Hork Bajir never seemed like a very strong species to me. They have blades and horns and they're green, heck that sounds like a mighty dinosaur or even a pseudo-legendary pokemon, but they barely gave more resistance to the Animorphs than the humans. Cassie's female wolf was at least strong enough to fight one on two with the Hork Bajirs. Gee I wonder if that wolf was even strong enough to fight a pair of Shaquille O'Neal's...
Well if it was a leopard it's even better, they're stronger. In #19, the leopard had a clear advantage against Cassie's wolf. If Marco didn't arrive in time the leopard would have won easily. I don't see why neither of them acquired the leopard once they defeated it, especially since it's easily better than Cassie's wolf for rapid firepower. I mean, battle morphs are hard to acquire, and they actually had a chance to acquire a big cat without too much risk that time... personally I really wouldn't have let that slip away
I mean, if someday Cassie was forced to go one on one with Visser three, wouldn't she prefer to have the strongest morph possible?
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I mean, if someday Cassie was forced to go one on one with Visser three, wouldn't she prefer to have the strongest morph possible?
i think that harks back to cory's original thoughts: the wolf is useful for stealth and adds to the team's tactical battling flexibility, but cassie had many opportunities to add to her repertoire and nothing, in particular, was stopping her from doing so.
the one argument that i've seen for the "let's not acquire ____" in any context for any animorph is "what if there's a limit to the number of morphs we can acquire? then - murphy's law - when we really need a morph, we won't be able to acquire it", but that really never stopped the animorphs. when they wanted/needed a morph, they acquired it.
another argument is that cassie might be reluctant to morph at all because of the whole 'animals are people / are we yeerks' conundrum. while cassie speaks occasionally to this, she frequently acts contrarily to that hypothesis in her role as 'morph expert'. she willingly and without reservation supplies animals for the animorphs on a regular basis. she also doesn't hesitate to morph when the group needs to morph and she stays in morph as long as necessary to get the job done. so while i think that cassie may be reluctant to acquire and use morphs, the all-encompassing theory that she wants to avoid morphing (period) doesn't completely gel.
perhaps the specificity in the grey area is in the nature of the morph. cassie chooses a morph that inflicts damage and gets the job done... but can the wolf take out, for example, hork bajir with the same efficiency as a tiger or a grizzly? i suggest 'no'. i would also suggest that other animals (cathey's suggestion of leopard) might provide the same flexibility in battle and with greater efficacy than the wolf. why, then, does cassie not find and acquire those animals?
i'd have to re-read #19 (or rytx, the living animorphs-ionary/-asaurus, can beat me to it), but i think that there are times when the animorphs can't or shouldn't acquire morphs, even when they're available. for one, coming out of a life-or-death situation, they might not be in a mindset to acquire morphs. also, even if they have presence of mind to say 'a-hah! new morph!', their pausing at those times to acquire a new morph would add time and risk to the mission. it really wouldn't be appropriate, at that point, to stop to shop for morphs. implicitly, i think that they understand that. i don't, however, think that the animorphs never have a prime opportunity to look for or acquire new morphs. why, then, doesn't cassie take advantage?
anyway. i would suggest that cassie tries to limit her casualties by sticking with the wolf and that, because there's no serious detriment to the group because she does so, it works for the animorphs and for the series as a whole.
...argh. more thought-tangents before i can even hit the 'submit' button. anyway- cassie's decision to stick with the wolf (and the animorphs never really questioning it like i think that any of them actually ought to have done at some point and for the same reasons) might have been an effective way for katmike to communicate cassie's nature to the audience.
because hell, if i was jake, i'd want to hook my not-girlfriend-girlfriend up with something bada*. ditto the others, simply because it helps the team for individuals to have beefier morphs on hand. ...of course, when you're 13, do you really think about these things?
(no. i can answer that. i would have. xD)
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i'd have to re-read #19 (or rytx, the living animorphs-ionary/-asaurus, can beat me to it)
Yeah, I was just about to do that.
Cassie had no opportunity to get that leopard without the leopard getting her so to speak.
The first time they encountered it, Cassie was goes into wolf morph to get the leopard to back off Karen. I doubt it would just sit there and let her demorph and then come pet it while it wanted to eat the girl.
The second time, again she's in morph, and the leopard kicks her butt. Then it backs off when Marco appears. Now sure, you could ask Marco to go wrestle the leopard and hold it down so Cassie can demorph and acquire it, but that seems like a big F you to Marco, and again, considering what's going on with Karen, not feasible.
The last time it appears, it's hardly "defeated", Marco gets the drop on it and chucks it 20 feet, and it's not gonna hang around a gorilla and some have morphed kids for one meal. Also, at this point Cassie was already trapped in caterpillar morph. There was never an opportunity for her to get this.
Most of there combat morphs come from zoo/confined animals that are used to people, very early in the series. You see pictures of people at zoo's hugging tigers and, the tiger doesn't care. You won't see that in the wild, you'd have to subdue it, like they did the polar bear. So the leopard in 19 is a bad example. Why she never went back to the Gardens for something else is the question, but I feel like that's been soundly discussed.
Also, totally off point, I recently read 19 again. First time in a while the scene with Rachel taking the bug didn't make me tear up.
Yes, lame I know, but whatever
Edit: Also, Cassie had quit the group in 19, because she was tired of fighting. Why would she go looking for a new combat morph
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I never quite got Cassie's conundrum about "how are we different from Yeerks". It just makes no sense. The Yeerk takes over a conscientious living creature, and enslaves it. By morphing an animal, you just borrow its DNA. It's pretty much just an avatar. If I make Johnny Depp my profile picture, am I enslaving him and breaking some morals? And Cassie acquired and morphed a yeerk once. So much for morals...
I think battle morphs are pretty hard to acquire. There are very few tame predators, and just because a zoo keeper can cuddle a lion doesn't mean any visitor can approach them without risking any attack. The acquiring trance doesn't last for long. Marco was calling Jake nuts for trying to get the tiger, Rachel's grizzly and Marco's gorilla are both relatively docile animals, though they'll still attack you if necessary. The dangerous animals are almost always completely isolated from humans. It's tough to say that they could have acquired whatever they wanted, even for Cassie, who was most experienced among animals. I was always quite amused that David got his lion so easy. The lion literally had to be sleeping. The usual routine would be what they did with the polar bear. I agree that they were more occupied with Karen/Aftran at that time, but I think if they wanted the leopard, it was very doable. So I'm quite surprised Cassie didn't take the chance.
Yes the wolf did okay battling Hork Bajir (which really got me to question how strong Hork Bajir are without dracon beams), but in reality it probably takes 6 of Cassie's wolves to battle one of Jake's tiger. Heck, she didn't even get the best wolf, Jake had the alpha male. The leopard outclasses her wolf easily.
But anyway, a lot of books don't make sense. In reality Jake's yeerk would have morphed tiger and tried to escape or at least take down as many Animorphs as he can manage. He can use Jake as hostage. Cassie was his almost-girlfriend, Rachel was his cousin, Marco was his best friend, even for Ax that was his prince. Even if it came down to that it wouldn't have been a easy kill for them, and the yeerk already had that information. Also Jake had the most dangerous battle morph of all of them, Cassie and Tobias were no match. The fact that the yeerk just starved to death was stupid in my opinion.
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I never got that either. Even when someone morphs Human, the morph never starts thinking about its existence, and whether or not it wants to do anything other than what Ax wants it to do. Controlling an animal's instincts is no different than controlling your own instincts. Instincts are not some premeditated choice. It's just a built in mechanism for survival.
I believe the Hork-Bajir went through a bit of decay as far as difficulty goes. A wolf really shouldn't stand much of a chance. The idea that Cassie could even get to its throat is a bit of a stretch. Then again, maybe Visser Three was given crappy soldiers because he's known to lop off heads. Now when they introduce the Blue Bands, there really isn't any excuse.
As far as the Yeerk goes, I hahve mentioned somewhere that all the Yeerk really had to do was morph bug and give them an ultimatum. Send him back to the pool, or Jake will have a short life as a fly or ant. Of course the plot didn't go that way, since the animorphs wouldn't be able to do anything about that. The Ellemist hadn't even been introduced yet.
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Yeah I sort of thought of Hork Bajir as something between a Garchomp and a Tyranitar when I was reading the books. Okay so they don't get to breath fire and create sandstorms... but you get the feeling. Cassie's wolf shouldn't be that strong. Or if it is, then the Hork Bajir are really just monkeys in armor suits.
I don't think it would be that smart to threat with a bug morph. The gang had to know that Jake's yeerk had to be isolated from the other yeerks, or Visser three will know exactly who they are. So, do we sacrifice Jake or make the entire team into hosts? It's easier for the yeerk to just attempt escape, the best time being night time when there was minimum supervision. I don't see why it stopped morphing as it was told so. Just go heads up as tiger, the worst you can do is die trying, but you can probably still take out a few Animorphs.
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Speaking to 'are we yeerks', i believe that the underlying philosophy is that if humans are no more than DNA, then it would be logical that what some refer to as a 'soul' would also be the outcome of that DNA. Although the brain may not come with memories, it would be a free-thinking human, if the animorph could jump ship and leave the avatar alive.
What if you're the morph? If an andalite acquired the real you at birth, morphed into you, and left him-/herself a nothlit, how would you know that there isn't a nothlit hiding somewhere in your brain? What if an ellimist came along and gave that nothlit the power to morph again and simply demorphed? You'd be nothing: mass in z-space.
Cassie always seemed the type to carry that soul/avatar theory into the animal world. Where do you draw the line, in any case? Take dolphins, pigs, dogs: is it IQ points? Because they, indisputably, have personality, free will, a sense of community, etc.
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Animals definitely have personalities, but as I said a morphed individual only shows base instincts. I don't think Tobias developed a split personality in his head. The books don't really delve into this, aside from Cassie mentioning it for some reason and them deciding not to take a sentient being's DNA without permission.
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as I said a morphed individual only shows base instincts.
missed it. lo siento.
my lapse aside, in 'animorphs world', is that fact stated somewhere? that's something else that i've missed. i'm kinda extrapolating the theory that DNA is human existence, ergo how could acquiring human (or animal) DNA and then morphing not then also create sentient life that is less than an actual person (animal)?
i recall the morphing of security guards.... at... some point.... RYTX, where are you, buddy? *ventures into the family room for books* anyway, what you're saying might've been implied there, but i'd even go so far as to call that a KASU with a side of 'default use of the term "andalite technology" to cover our butts'. taking that further, perhaps andalite technology suppresses the ability of the morpher to mentally communicate with the morphee? (now that's irony.)
okay. sorry, sorry. tangents abound. i need some dinner. P:
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ci recall the morphing of security guards.... at... some point.... RYTX, where are you, buddy? *ventures into the family room for books*
I can't recall any impression of real officers currently, but hey even I slip up some times
Are you referring to the controllers some of them picked up during the fake banquet in 21 perhaps?
Having read that one last weekend I don't really understand why they did that, but was one of the rare times they didn't do the whole permission griping.
The only other thing I can think of would be getting members of the military in 46. I do feel like there's another instance where they grab some in uniform, for the uniform, but I honestly can't recall what it would be.
And thank you for repeatedly acknowledging my greatness in this area. Nice to be the best, nicer still to have others recognize it. Keeps me humble ;)
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Yeah, you're definitely the go-to guy, RYTX.
I guess they didn't bother getting permission because the Humans were infested? Though that's still not a great excuse. Your life is already ****ty, so adding a bit more insult to injury will just be a drop in the bucket.
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You know... I may and may not be the only person to feel this way but I honestly think Cassie is the one character who never should've been an Animorph. She never should've been at the construction site that night. I feel she's too much of a pacifist. Yes, she did fight but I honestly feel she only did it out of a sense of duty. I feel like she never really wanted to be a... warrior so to speak. Now that's not say she didn't want to free and protect her planet, she did. She just didn't want to fight in order for that to happen I think. At least, that's what I get from it.
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It's pretty obvious that she'd never have volunteered if she had been given a proper chance. I wouldn't see her signing up for the military when she grew up. It is good to have a moral compass, but she really went to far with it. Both extremes are bad, but at least the far aggressive side is the most useful for getting the job done. Not crying about dead termite queens, or wondering if morphing other creatures is the same as what the Yeerks do. Certainly not giving the escafil device to the enemy because there's a chance that a sympathetic character may die, and making excuses about it when something good happens to come out of it.
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my lapse aside, in 'animorphs world', is that fact stated somewhere? that's something else that i've missed. i'm kinda extrapolating the theory that DNA is human existence, ergo how could acquiring human (or animal) DNA and then morphing not then also create sentient life that is less than an actual person (animal)?
They morphed Leerans and didn't have any issues with a "conscious" showing up. I think that's the longest they ever stayed in a sapient morph, but Tobias morphed Andalite, Marco morphed a guy at one point to escape some building. Ax had a human morph... actually, I stand corrected, Ax morphed human all the time. :P
I don't think Cassie started out so extremely... weird about fighting. I mean, she was ok with destroying the Kandrona early on, but wasn't ok with destroying the yeerkpool. They would do the exact same thing, so it didn't really make any sense. (makes less sense V3 was ok with letting the pool get destroyed if all his minions would starve to death, but whatever, that book was badly written).
I think she started out being ok with fighting because she knew that someone had to. I don't think she would volunteer, but she wouldn't back out on her own. The only reason she freaked in book 19 was because she had a severe stress reaction to Jake almost dying in 16. KA set that up really well. Anyway, I think before ghost writers took over she was okish. She nose dived pretty fast after that. I think the wolf morph was just because. She had something that kinda worked and fighting wasn't important to her so she never bothered getting something else afterwards. I mean, she didn't even have a real battle morph until after they picked up wolves for an unrelated reason.
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donut link=topic=5461.msg842674#msg842674 date=1402696976]
my lapse aside, in 'animorphs world', is that fact stated somewhere? that's something else that i've missed. i'm kinda extrapolating the theory that DNA is human existence, ergo how could acquiring human (or animal) DNA and then morphing not then also create sentient life that is less than an actual person (animal)?
They morphed Leerans and didn't have any issues with a "conscious" showing up. I think that's the longest they ever stayed in a sapient morph, but Tobias morphed Andalite, Marco morphed a guy at one point to escape some building. Ax had a human morph... actually, I stand corrected, Ax morphed human all the time. :P
Ax mixed up DNA from 4 humans for his morph.
Book 18: The Leerans gave the 4 surviving Animorphs permission to morph them. I have wondered why the Animorphs never morphed Leerans again for the purposes of detecting Controllers and also vetting potential new Animorphs.
Book 39: The Hidden: [spoiler]Cassie acquires a Cape Buffalo, which was excellent in battle. Why didn't she adopt that as her unique battle morph?[/spoiler]