Richard's Animorphs Forum
Animorphs Section => Animorphs Forum Classic => Topic started by: JohnBlaze on July 05, 2010, 05:36:23 AM
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Okay....totally unrealistic, but if all 5 Animorphs (minus Ax) got in a brawl or something, who would be the last one standing?
(I don't think I should put Ax in the equation b/c that tail would probably kill them all in one swipe)
First off....Cassie would be dead first, Marco probably 2nd, somebody eventually knock Tobias out the air, leaving JAke vs. Rachel....and i'm sorry but....
Grizzly Bear > Tiger
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I think the animorphs discussed this a while back. Hahaha!
Anyway, I don't think Ax would kill them all in one swipe as you would have said. Marco himself was confident that he could take out Ax in his gorilla morph.
Okay, if they could morph. If they all couldn't morph, Ax would win. Or not. If they got a safe distance first. haha.
If it was an all out brawl where everyone has to fight each other. The last one standing would have to be Cassie. Because she won't fight. She'd morph the wolf and run. Haha. She said that in one of her books.
Joking aside, we can't really tell. Depends on the morph they use.
Grizzly Bear > Tiger BUT it's people in morph. Rachel's all Xena, but Jake's just General Eisenhower. He won't fight that Grizzly head on. The only reason he lost to David was because he did so. He didn't plan much ahead. The terrain was just to his disadvantage.
Tobias isn't also an easy kill. He's a FREAKING PREDATOR. He fights everyday. He has the most experience out of all the Animorphs.
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But Tobias couldn't really hurt them to death, and finally one of them would kill him. The tiger would kill the wolf (the wolf can run longer, but the tiger is faster).
Really, the last fight would be between the tiger and the bear. The tiger is fast, can run around the bear and hit him in many place quickly without even be touched. But if the bear catch the tiger, she would kill him in few hits only.
So that's pretty hard to know...
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Unless Tobias morphs into Hork Bajir I guess. Okay, maybe not. He can hang into the air like a vulture and wait until one of them is weak, morph to Polar Bear, and vava voom.
Until Jake morphs Howler and pawns them all.
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Well in 48 we saw Rachels Bear vs Jakes tiger, and Jake pretty much destroyed her.
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Well in 48 we saw Rachels Bear vs Jakes tiger, and Jake pretty much destroyed her.
Yeah, but that whole book was.....all over the place, and I thought it was the wild, natural bear vs. tiger, not Rachbear vs. Jakiger.....
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Hmmm, don't think so.
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It was a dream, though, and Rachel's subconscious was purposely having the bear lose because that was part of the message of the dream....so idk if that counts.
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It was a dream, though, and Rachel's subconscious was purposely having the bear lose because that was part of the message of the dream....so idk if that counts.
I think that probably does count. Rachel put it nicely - her bear can take a lot of killing, but Jake's tiger is too fast and can hold on too well.
Here's my opinion:
With Ax: Ax > all, in short order. It takes at least a minute to morph, but only a few seconds for him to use that tail blade.
Without Ax: Jake > Rachel > Cassie > Marco > Tobias.
Tobias doesn't have much power as a fighter; his big weapon is speed. Marco's gorilla could probably snag him out of the air unless Tobias got in a surprise attack.
Marco's gorilla is big, but Cassie's wolf is fast and agile, not to mention its superb stamina. Wolf > gorilla.
Rachel's bear pwns any wolf, gorilla, or hawk. Although Cassie's wolf would stand a good chance due to its speed, I don't think it has enough power to take down the bear before Rachel can land a hit. One hit from Rachel finishes Cassie.
Jake's tiger isn't as powerful as Rachel's bear, but it's faster and strong enough to do a reasonably quick job.
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I'm not sure about Marco > Cassie... The gorilla is really strong, and I'm not sure the bites of the wolf would kill it...
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Fine, i'll settle it....
Ellimist> Animorphs, lol....jk
Um...yeah, I think Rachel wins regardless...her morphs are pretty much the most powerful....she could always cheat and go elephant, but then they'd probably quadruple team her....hmmm :/
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Um...yeah, I think Rachel wins regardless...her morphs are pretty much the most powerful....she could always cheat and go elephant, but then they'd probably quadruple team her....hmmm :/
Is the assumption then that they can only use regular battle morphs (regular, meaning used at least a few times in battle)? Because they could all go either Rhino or Elephant.
For that matter, are they stuck in a single arena to fight it out in a single battle to the death? Because if they can spread, flee and plan it and try again and again it really becomes a matter of chance and circumstance.
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Kotetsu's got it right, it all depends on the circumstance, but without any other external factors I think that it's safe to say that they WOULDN'T all fight each other arena style. Just like with the howlers, it wouldn't be a straight on fight, there would be a lot of tactics and planning and strategy involved.
And that said, I have to say that Marco would win. Cassie was never a fighter to begin with, and if she's fighting against the others it would make things way worse. She just wouldn't be able to cope and would be taken out pretty quickly. As far as planning and strategy goes, Rachel sucks pretty bad. I'm sorry, but it's true. She'd beat the pants off of everyone in a brawl, but if it's a long drawn out affair she would go down. Jake is an ok planner, but he's more of a motivator - he gets everyone else together and keeps the team going strong. In this scenario, there is no team, so his best attribute is gone. What it does say over and over in the books though is that Marco is the best strategist - the one that can see how to get the end result. So he would find a way to take out all the other animorphs and be able to do it by himself.
I could definitely see Tobias causing some problems though. He always was more of a loaner and would have no problem working on his own, and he could be pretty BA when he wants to be...
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What it does say over and over in the books though is that Marco is the best strategist - the one that can see how to get the end result. So he would find a way to take out all the other animorphs and be able to do it by himself.
He's probably where I would place my money as well. I think that David was a lot like Marco in this manner too and that was why David was a threat capable of taking out all the Anis (as well as being some of the reason that the two really didn't get along from the beginning).
For Tobias... as much as I like the kid in other ways he was way too stuck on his normal hawk form; unless the situation called for him to be in another form he basically always considered hawk his 'battle morph.' I was about ready for Jake to say "You know Tobias, the rest of us are facing off against four or five Hork Bajir at a time, I know that you like the hawk form and all but you could pick a morph capable of doing more than distracting one enemy at a time until Cassie can actually get at its throat." He's a predator, he thinks well as a predator, but he's not a battler; he'd be a contender but I'd still put my money on Marco the Magnificent.
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Hey, we're all forgetting Tobias can morph too!
He can think like a predator. I mean, predators don't usually fight other predators right? I mean for prey, usually they move on or attack the weak one left. So he can do that. wait till there's one standing. Then morph Hork Bajir/Andalite and slash the guts out of that person. hahaha.
@aguito:
It's not always about power that Tobias usually stays at hawk form. The Animorphs need SIGHT. like i video games, that radar in your lower right. Tobias usually says "Behind you" or "bank hard right" because he can see things tigers/bears/wolves/gorillas miss at the heat of the battle. The occasionally unexpected dive is just a bonus.
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That's why I think Tobias might be a tricky one if it ever came down to a fight - he's the one that's used to staying away from the battle and waging war from a distance. He always stays back, cool and calm and collected, never gets real involved in the fights. Its that detachment that would make him such a difficult opponent to understand and subsequently take down. But if anyone has an edge at out-thinking and destroying an opponent, it's gotta be Marco, particularly when the opponent is an old friend. all the other anis would hesitate and have a lot of problems and regrets and otherr internal conflicts. Not that Marco doesn't have them, he would just cope with it better, as evidenced by his continual struggle against visser 1/his mom.
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I meant that was @Kotetsu, noit @aguito. Sorry 'bout that. :P
Again, Tobias provides Sight, not Power. Hawkeyes. :angel:
Jake is also like this in a battle. He's even more decisive than Marco. That's why he's the best leader from the six.
Unlike Marco though, he regrets AFTER the battle. DURING, not so much. Like how he decided to sacrifice Marco and Rachel in #41 to save the rest of the Anis.
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I meant that was @Kotetsu, noit @aguito. Sorry 'bout that. :P
Again, Tobias provides Sight, not Power. Hawkeyes. :angel:
Yes, I understand his role as 'eye in the sky,' I'm just commenting on how doggedly he sticks to that when the situation doesn't warrant it, it's one thing when they are out in the open, trying to figure out what they are doing and need to keep an eye out for ambushes; but when the situation is an enclosed space with limited entrances and they have a single clear direction to head in (either 'get the hell out' or 'go rescue/grab that thing in the middle of the room' and all they need is pure battle power, everyone else busts out their most brute strength morphs and but Tobias sticks to hawk and repeats the divebomb to distract Hork-Bajir when everyone else is outnumbered and could really use brute force.
I'm not saying that Tobias providing intelligence is always unnecessary, I'm saying that there are times when it is unnecessary and rather than fighting as a hawk he could be a lot more useful in other forms; he's very comfortable using his 'natural' hawk form and is quite experienced in it, but using it as a crutch makes him perhaps the worst morpher.
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The Marco thing is a good idea, but don't forget his disadvantages in The Weakness, where he admitted that he's a strategist, but it would take so long to plan stuff out, it'll be too late. Though Rachel doesnt have strategy, I think as far as it being a fight, she'd win. I'd give it to Jake as well cus he's a little of both.
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Anybody wonder what it would be like if the Animorphs had a Civil War, like 3v3?
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Rachel was actually a pretty decent strategist; she did reasonably well leading the Animorphs during Jake's away-time. Her only real mistake was pushing for one more mission when everyone else wanted to call it quits.
I was thinking of more an arena-style battle, but for a scatter battle I have to agree that Marco > all, since he's the best strategist and he's reasonably ruthless as well.
Come to think of it, Tobias could potentially track one Animorph at a time from the air, then pick them off when they're vulnerable. He would be a definite danger to the others... I think I still have to give Marco the win, though.
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Anybody wonder what it would be like if the Animorphs had a Civil War, like 3v3?
Rachel, Tobias, Marco VS Jake, Ax, Cassie
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Anybody wonder what it would be like if the Animorphs had a Civil War, like 3v3?
Rachel, Tobias, Marco VS Jake, Ax, Cassie
No fair...side with Ax wins by default....that tail ends discussions pretty quickly
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Anybody wonder what it would be like if the Animorphs had a Civil War, like 3v3?
Rachel, Tobias, Marco VS Jake, Ax, Cassie
No fair...side with Ax wins by default....that tail ends discussions pretty quickly
rachel is on the other side, she ends things pretty quickly too. im assuming they are all in battlemorph from the getgo, otherwise you are most probably right.
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Within Animorphs cannon, in terms of speed:
snake strike > Andalite tail > pretty much anything else on Earth's reaction time
So a well placed Marco strike could balance out the 3v3
But even without that, Ax with a tail blade doesn't completely end the discussion; because even if he inflicts a mortal wound on, say a gorilla, Animorphs leaves room for 'mortal wounds' to not mean death; if said gorilla was able to strike a crushing blow strong enough to force Ax to back off and morph out his injuries then Marco as gorilla could also afford time to back off and morph out; or in a team setting the others could hold the place in a temporary 2v3 while one morphs out; there could be quite a bit of this back and forth on both sides before exhaustion puts the limits on how long this can go on; so it would depend on the situation and the combination of many spur-of-the-moment decisions to decide the final outcome.
Oh, how about this:
When Cassie was shrunk, somehow 'the animal DNA that she contained was shrunk as well' but she was able from her shrunken form to acquire 'normal sized DNA' for an ant-eater. After being grown back to her normal size, she uses 'grown anteater DNA' and becomes a super-gigantic anteater and eats all the other Anis... Cassie wins!
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Yeah that's something from 24 they never touched on, that Cassie can morph into a mile-long monster anteater that could suck up all of their enemies-or should I say DOOMEATER??????MUAHAHAHAHHA!!!!
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In a straight stuck in an areana style battle, I think it would come down to Jake vs Rachel, I think a Siberian tiger could take a grizzly. Siberian tigers hunt brown bears (although not grizzlies) as an alternative food source. Siberian tigers have an average weight b/w 450-600 pounds. And are extremely fast and agile.
The average weight for a Grizzly is about the same, between 400 and 600 pounds. Grizzlies are also fairly fast in a run, but not as agile.
They both have very similar weapons, but I believe the tiger could use them easier than the bear because of it's agility.
Now if Rach had a kodiak...
also the terrain would matter, if there were things lieing around that could be used as weapons, like logs or big rocks, I bet Marco would put them to good use, and he'd be the only one who could.
Now in a scatter battle, I think it'd be either Marco or Tobias. They both have the right mentality for that kind of fight. Both would be able to operate alone fairly well, and have the sense to stalk a target and know to wait for the right moment to strike, don't forget that Tobias has a Hork Bajir he has used effectively in fights and Marco has a cobra, pretty close to a one strike weapon, but in a scatter battle that's all he'd need.
Now if they were already morphed, I think Jake could handle Ax, or at least make it an even fight, it was mentioned a few times that his tiger was fast enough to avoid V3s tail in a few fights
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Grizzlies are waaayyy bigger than 600 lbs....we're talkin 750-800 range
DOOMEATER >>>>
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In a straight stuck in an areana style battle, I think it would come down to Jake vs Rachel, I think a Siberian tiger could take a grizzly. Siberian tigers hunt brown bears (although not grizzlies) as an alternative food source. Siberian tigers have an average weight b/w 450-600 pounds. And are extremely fast and agile.
The average weight for a Grizzly is about the same, between 400 and 600 pounds. Grizzlies are also fairly fast in a run, but not as agile.
I'd put my money on the Grizzly. Siberian tigers are big kitties, but Grizzly bears are much more so, particularly in coastal regions where being more than 1,000 pounds is no big deal. To add more perspective, a Grizzly already with its fully grown weight can add on the weight of an entire Siberian tiger in preparation for winter, that's right, putting on an extra 400-500 pounds when already being almost double the weight of the kitty is a bit of an advantage. And even when ready for winter they aren't a big pile of fat either, if you've ever seen one even from a fair distance you don't need to get close to see that they are serious business. Sure, the tiger is faster, but if all it is doing is swiping and running to never be in range long enough to get hit by the grizzly then it would take a lot longer than the morphing limit to bleed the bear out. And with the grizzly, all it would take is one solid hit before the tiger is dead or at least too dazed to defend itself.
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It depends on how technically accurate they were with the term grizzly. All brown bears are considered the same species but grizzlies are a subspecies. If they were using the term grizzly to mean any brown bear it could have been one of the coastal bears you described or conceivably a kodiak which have been known to exceed 2000 pounds, although I doubt it could be a kodiak.
yes, I've seen brown bears a little too close for comfort, they a definitly serious business.
I'm not concerned much with running speed as much as agility. I think the tiger would be better able to actually use it's weapons than a grizzly during the fight, especially it's hind legs. I don't know too much about how tigers fight, but I know cats if given the opportunity will try to "dig" into their opponent with the hind legs, which is very effective and can be done while the tiger is pinned on his back.
After searching a little, I found that it's the ussuri brown bear that the siberian tiger occasionally hunts, but I can't find a weight on them. and yes sometimes the bear will win, but it usually goes to the tiger.
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also remember Rachel would be strike first, think later....everyone else may hesitate....
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All of this talk of bear v tiger sounds like Deadliest Warrior or something
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I can't see Tobias using a Hork-Bajir morph effectively against the other Anis, given that they've all fought against and defeated H-B's, oh, only about a million times. Though I suppose Tobias might be able to use the body more effectively than a Yeerk with his fighting experience. Conversely, the Andalite morph might be effective, but he doesn't have much experience in it.
Eh, I agree w/donut. Jake in an arena setting, otherwise Marco.
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I don't see that Gorilla going to far....in fact, he's super slow, none agile, and in most battles, Marco is usually the one closest to dying.
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as far as tobias with hb morph, true that the anis have shown that any of them could effectively take an hb in a striaght fight, but in a scatter fight (for some reason I'm picturing woods for a scatter fight) he wouldn't take them in a straight fight. He'd likely take to the trees and sneak up on one, or wait and ambush someone as they went by, given his predator mentality and his 3 dimensional thinking, I'm almost certain he would try to fight like that. he'd also be a lot more mobile in his natural state and could easily avoid a fight until his choosing, unless the others morphed a bird to attack him, in which case he'd have an experience advantage. If jake could morph and climb unnoticed he might be able to take out tobias with his falcon, otherwise only rachel could give him a challenge in the air, but I'd still bet on tobias.
With his andalite morph, I don't think he'd have enough experience to fight effectively, ax could definitely take him, jake could, maybe rach if she charged and he missed his first strike, marco if he could get a weapon, I don't think cassie would have a chance. the other side of the andalite though is that they aren't much sturdier than a human if you could get past that tail, not to imply that'd be easy though.
I think in a scatter fight Marco's thinking and intelligence would give him a significant advantage. and I still think he'd have an advantage over pretty much anyone if he could find a suitable weapon given that his morph has hands and enough strength to use one, even if all he does is find a few big rocks and hurls them.
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i wouldn;t count marco out so quickly. in fact, i might out my money on him. from reading this books/narrations, marco seems the most intelliegent and cunning when it come to dealing with people and situations. i think he is also the most 'street smart' out of them. although tobias had it rough and tough, i don't think he is a street smart as marco, or as cunning.
so, these qualities would make marco win imo. cassie would go down first cuz shes way too much of a sentimental softy, her emotions could take over causing her to hesitate etc.
Jake is the wise leader, but like rachel, he can be a hothead at times and this is a flaw that could be exploited. jake excels in teamwork, that is, he makes his decisions based on the input of everyone elses. his decisions on its own aren't that great, it is with the input of the others that gets it modifed and becomes great. when alone, as an individual, he ain't all that. nowhere near marco's cunning intelligence.
Rachel i think would go down after cassie. sure, in a head on fight, shes like a bomb, a hurricane, and if the oppenent was the same way, and they were fighting in a ring no cheating, purely fire power vs fire power, then yeah, rachel could and probably would come out on top. but facing a cunning opponent like marco in a no rules anything goes battle, there is a significantly high chance that rachels temper and impatience would get the better of her and she would simply rush into the fight without thinking and someone like marco could set traps for this.
tobias, with his experience at being a predator, would be the other one out of them who is most likely to come out on top, besides marco. him and marco would make an interesting battle of wits and instincts and strategy. tobias, due to him living as a bird of prey, would be ever alert, on the guard, careful and able to spot the minor details in things easily. he would be a hard one to catch of guard.
but however, none of them is perfect. is we see, they all get into trouble at one point or another individually. it is when they work as a team that they overcome it. k.a has done a good job in having each of her characters complementing each others strengths and weaknesses.
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but however, none of them is perfect. is we see, they all get into trouble at one point or another individually. it is when they work as a team that they overcome it. k.a has done a good job in having each of her characters complementing each others strengths and weaknesses.
so very true....
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"Alliances" inside the fight
These guys have been fighting against the Yeerks for a good 3 years. I would think that emotionalism would be a big thing a civil war. Examples; Ax wouldn't go for Jake if he could avoid it, Cassie and Jake would try to keep away from each other (or even work together), Rachel would probably go for either Jake or Marco first (because she has a score to settle with them), rather than Cassie or Tobias. Because of Tobias being a victim of bullying for years I think he would try to keep away from everyone.
Advantages/ Disadvantages
One of Jake's biggest advantages is that he understands everyone's strength's and weaknesses the best, from having to know and exploit them constantly. Marco, doesn't exactly have the best fighting morphs, but (I assume they could thought speak to each other) Marco could use his provoking nature to turn others against someone other than him. His ruthlessness could also come in handy. Cassie's got the knowledge of all the animals she's up against (not including Ax) so she would know something like, "bite hard behind their neck to paralyze them". She is also very underrated thus no one would go for her first (even without the emotional ties). Rachel, (some of you are probably going to hate me for this but,) I think would go down pretty fast on her own, evidence shows from the last book (stop reading if you haven't read #54 yet) that she couldn't handle about 5 battle-morphed Yeerks on her own.
Conclusion
Honestly, there are so many possibilities that could change during the fight, like whoever goes down first, the better friends of the fallen would probably go for the killer (ex. Rachel is killed by Marco, Tobias goes for Marco in vengeance). Contradictory from posts above me, I think Cassie might actually have a good chance on surviving a long time. Although a one on one fight with the opponent in good shape Cassie would probably lose.
So a possible outcome from all the factors, it might go something like this;
Rachel, Marco, Tobias, Cassie, Jake
But hey, anything can happen in love and war.