Richard's Animorphs Forum

Animorphs Section => Animorphs Forum Classic => Topic started by: Serraph105 on January 03, 2010, 04:50:45 PM

Title: Did anybody think that David
Post by: Serraph105 on January 03, 2010, 04:50:45 PM
Would turn out to be a bad guy? I sure didn't. I was quite certain that this new Animorph would simply be a new edition to the team and be a good guy. Once I read the first book he was in my feelings were different of course, but before that in the little preview the book before it gave I don't ever remember thinking that he could turn out to be an enemy.
Title: Re: Did anybody think that David
Post by: morfowt on January 03, 2010, 05:17:34 PM
hard to say. I didn't read the series in order so I found out about david being a traiter long before I actually read the trilogy.
Title: Re: Did anybody think that David
Post by: Chad32 on January 03, 2010, 05:48:35 PM
I knew that he was going to have problems with the group, asthere were all kinds of signs, but I didn't really think it would go as far as it did. Nor did I think anyone would think forcing him to become a nothlit would be more humane than just killing him.

I always thought it would be cool to make him a recurring villain that fought the anis and Yeerks.
Title: Re: Did anybody think that David
Post by: Terenia on January 03, 2010, 05:48:44 PM
Despite the David trilogy being my favorite part of the main series, I do have to say I was not all that surprised that the 'new' Animorph did not last. By book #20 the Animorphs were set in everyones mind, and a newcomer would never really be accepted by the readers as anything but an unnecessary addition. I think it was the right strategic decision for the series to make David a traitor, as it did more to develop the Ani's characterization than anything else in the series (with the possible exception of Tobias and Taylor).

So yeah...I wouldn't say I expected it, but I wasn't surprised by it either.
Title: Re: Did anybody think that David
Post by: Chad32 on January 03, 2010, 05:57:09 PM
Yeah, some readers might just label him the scrappy for no other reason than he came in almost halfway through the series. He would be better off as a recurring villain than part of the team, or just not have him return at all. Of course The Return does show us that Rachel isn't some totally psychotic Blood Knight, but some readers and Word of God wants to go by what other Anis think of her over what is shown in her narration.
Title: Re: Did anybody think that David
Post by: Gafrash on January 03, 2010, 08:36:00 PM
I thought by the end of #The Discovery a clash between David and the characters was imminent. By the time you saw the title for the following book, you knew that 'new Animorph' meant trouble. David turned out to be possibly the worst enemy the Animorphs ever had.
Which, to me, made #The Return all the more of a let down. Dunno why exactly, but the story just wasn't substencial enough for such an Ani villain. 
Title: Re: Did anybody think that David
Post by: dolphin4077 on January 03, 2010, 11:36:24 PM
I knew David would turn traitor the moment he chose the golden eagle morph.  Any time a golden eagle is mentioned in Animorphs, something bad happens. 
Title: Re: Did anybody think that David
Post by: goom on January 03, 2010, 11:45:54 PM
definitely knew it from the start.
but i didn't quite realize exactly how 'bad' he would become.

great books, though.
Title: Re: Did anybody think that David
Post by: Shark Akhrrana on January 04, 2010, 04:10:49 AM
I knew he was going to be a not very likable guy  because of his attitude but i was totally not expecting him to be evil. I remember thinking it was going to be teh end of the series when David went to the dark side... wait no.. i mean he turned out to be evil.
Title: Re: Did anybody think that David
Post by: Adrian Malacoda on January 04, 2010, 05:08:36 PM
Like a few others I knew he was evil before I read the trilogy. Although, of course, I'd have to say David was much more suited to being a villain. As a hero he would be redundant.
Title: Re: Did anybody think that David
Post by: SuperBlue on January 04, 2010, 06:25:38 PM
hard to say. I didn't read the series in order so I found out about david being a traiter long before I actually read the trilogy.

Same here. But I always thought david should have been a recurrign villain or anti-hero. Not really the Ani's friends but not exactly out to kill them since the Yeerks were a bigger threat. I alway thought he'd start his own team of animorphs that were kinda like the opposite versions of the real anis. They wouldn't have been villains per se, more like rivals.
Title: Re: Did anybody think that David
Post by: Horsefan1023 (Seal) on January 04, 2010, 08:33:36 PM
I didn't think he would be a complete kill the Animorphs villain, I mean, especially when he insisted on morphing the golden eagle, there would be signs of antagonism.  I thought he was just going to be a part social outcast, not a whole evil person.

Like Terenia said, I wasn't shocked, but I was slightly surprised. 
Title: Re: Did anybody think that David
Post by: MoppingBear on January 04, 2010, 08:37:32 PM
hard to say. I didn't read the series in order so I found out about david being a traiter long before I actually read the trilogy.

Same here. But I always thought david should have been a recurrign villain or anti-hero. Not really the Ani's friends but not exactly out to kill them since the Yeerks were a bigger threat. I alway thought he'd start his own team of animorphs that were kinda like the opposite versions of the real anis. They wouldn't have been villains per se, more like rivals.

that would have probably been more interesting
Title: Re: Did anybody think that David
Post by: Galladerotom on January 04, 2010, 09:59:46 PM
I didn't think he would be a complete kill the Animorphs villain, I mean, especially when he insisted on morphing the golden eagle, there would be signs of antagonism.  I thought he was just going to be a part social outcast, not a whole evil person.

Like Terenia said, I wasn't shocked, but I was slightly surprised. 

To be honest I thought it was kind of obvious he was going to go wrong.

First off the guy has a bebe gun, a killer cat, and an illegal and deadly cobra. These are before he was in the animorphs and to be honest they are not signs of good character. The animorphs were even unsure of whether or not to let him use the Escafi device.

Second, the morphs he chooses are, well, agreesive he picks the golden eagle because he thought it could kick the other people's butts. The lion is a classic aggresive animal

Also he nearly betray's the Animorphs to Visser three when they are loosing.

He uses morphing for entirley personal means.

Lastly he is aggressive, deceptive and just outright zealous. All of these are the author's complete antithesis of character.
Title: Re: Did anybody think that David
Post by: Chad32 on January 04, 2010, 10:23:38 PM
I don't think having a bebe gun is sign of character, but since KA is a big anti-gun author, then it would be an indication. I owned a bebe gun at one time becase my dad took me hunting and stuff, and I turned out ok.
Title: Re: Did anybody think that David
Post by: Horsefan1023 (Seal) on January 04, 2010, 10:30:44 PM
Yeah, my brother has a paintball gun, nearly a bebe gun, does that make him a super-violent freako?
Title: Re: Did anybody think that David
Post by: Galladerotom on January 04, 2010, 10:40:54 PM
Well, if he has a deadly cobra, has attempted to betray people of his own race to aliens, breaks into a hotel room to watch TV, and snatched a bird right out of the sky just because he felt like it, then yes.  ;D

(I beg you to have a sense of humor)

Plus a paintball gun isn't as nearly as deadly as a bebe gun. A bebe gun can actually pierce through the skin and get in, paintball guns can cause bruises and minor cuts but I don't think much more than that.
Title: Re: Did anybody think that David
Post by: morfowt on January 05, 2010, 06:44:02 AM
eh, call me crazy, but weren't we discussing whether we thought he would be a traitor before we read book 21, maybe even before book 20?
Title: Re: Did anybody think that David
Post by: Chad32 on January 05, 2010, 12:01:01 PM
Yes we are. Why do you ask?
Title: Re: Did anybody think that David
Post by: morfowt on January 05, 2010, 03:51:56 PM
well then, shouldn't we be ignoring the hints from book 20 about his attitude, or at least book 21 (which the title is already big enough clue) and how david broke into a hotel, chose lion for battle morph, etc.?
Title: Re: Did anybody think that David
Post by: SuperBlue on January 05, 2010, 03:59:15 PM
Actually. I'd break into a whole lot of places if I had the morphing power so the hotel thing isn't so bad
Title: Re: Did anybody think that David
Post by: Chad32 on January 05, 2010, 04:10:21 PM
I really don't think the hotel thing was bad at all, since they were planning for him to sleep in the barn. I mean it's not like they had any friends who might take him in who had a bed, TV, food, heating/air conditioning, ect. You know, except the Kings.

Seriously, they didn't even need to tell David the Kings were androids. Just say that they were friends, and that they'd let him crash in a guest room. I wonder how different things would have been if they hadn't had an extremely important mission to handle at the same time.
Title: Re: Did anybody think that David
Post by: morfowt on January 05, 2010, 04:17:16 PM
ok so the hotel-breaking wasn't that bad. my point is, we shouldn't be discussing how we knew david would be bad by those things he did since that's not what we're talking about.
Title: Re: Did anybody think that David
Post by: adeon222 on January 06, 2010, 03:28:51 PM
I knew that I didn't like him at all, before I even got halfway through 20... but I do remember my horror and outrage growing by leaps and bounds as he committed moronic/creepy/evil act after moronic/creepy/evil act...

By the end of the trilogy I was like, "Wow... This guy has psychological problems on the Hitler level..."
Title: Re: Did anybody think that David
Post by: Serraph105 on January 11, 2010, 02:06:18 AM
I knew that I didn't like him at all, before I even got halfway through 20... but I do remember my horror and outrage growing by leaps and bounds as he committed moronic/creepy/evil act after moronic/creepy/evil act...

By the end of the trilogy I was like, "Wow... This guy has psychological problems on the Hitler level..."
I always wanted to know what exactly David did to Saddler's body. I imagined he morphed lion and had a meal.
Title: Re: Did anybody think that David
Post by: Chad32 on January 11, 2010, 12:00:13 PM
That would be overboard, even for David. He doesn't like killing Humans. Why would he eat a Human? It is a plot hole, though. He would have to do somethign with it.
Title: Re: Did anybody think that David
Post by: Serraph105 on January 11, 2010, 12:06:02 PM
That would be overboard, even for David. He doesn't like killing Humans. Why would he eat a Human? It is a plot hole, though. He would have to do somethign with it.
I'm not so sure. I mean he didn't mind killing Tobias because he was just a bird even though he clearly knew that he wasn't just a bird. He could use the same kind of logic with Saddler thinking "He was already dead."
Title: Re: Did anybody think that David
Post by: Chad32 on January 11, 2010, 12:10:07 PM
But it's still a Human body. I would think shooting someone dead and leaving the body would be easier to do than eating someone, even if he is already dead. There would still be running blood and warm flesh because he hadn't been dead long at all. The whole point of him being ok with killing Anis when they're morphed is because he's bothered by doing somethign to a Human body.

But that's just my opinion. I just don't think he'd eat it. Besides, what would he do with the blood and stuff? He'd have to eat every single piece of Saddler, and lap up all the mess. Did he even have that kind of time?
Title: Re: Did anybody think that David
Post by: Elfangor Sirinial Shamtul on January 14, 2010, 06:10:56 PM
I knew David would turn traitor the moment he chose the golden eagle morph.  Any time a golden eagle is mentioned in Animorphs, something bad happens. 
NICE ONE!
Title: Re: Did anybody think that David
Post by: dolphin4077 on January 14, 2010, 09:28:29 PM
Thanks, Elfangor.   
Title: Re: Did anybody think that David
Post by: MarigoldLesley on January 16, 2010, 07:21:53 AM
I kinda peeked at Wiki before i started the series...but besides that, I knew David was going to be a total jerk when he joined. He didn't have enough good in him. And besides, Marco was against him- and I'm always with Marco. :P
Title: Re: Did anybody think that David
Post by: firetiger777 on January 18, 2010, 06:43:20 AM
I don't think David is as evil of a person as everybody has thus far made him out to be. I think KA created him as a foil to the Animorphs. David like the Animorphs all lead normal lives before learning about the invasion, but how David responded is what separates him from the Animorphs. I don't think David is evil, but rather weaker than the Animorphs in determination and mental strength. When David lost his life to the yeerks, he started succumbing to selfish and easy acts.
I don't really think it's possible for anyone to proclaim that David was obviously going to turn evil or bad before reading the 21, or even 20. All of the other Animorphs have moments of weakness, Rachel's aggressiveness, Marco's ruthlessness, Jake's cold practicality, but in the end they "do the right thing" and emerge a hero. On the other hand, David who also started to face such decisions that showed his true characteristics chose to do the easy and selfish thing, rather than the right thing.
I guess, what I'm trying to say that to me, I feel like it's near impossible to know for sure that David would have turned out bad, but there were definately signs pointing to it when he made decisions, and its the accumulation of these decisions that made him more progressively "bad"
Title: Re: Did anybody think that David
Post by: morfowt on January 18, 2010, 08:16:19 AM
I don't think David is as evil of a person as everybody has thus far made him out to be. I think KA created him as a foil to the Animorphs. David like the Animorphs all lead normal lives before learning about the invasion, but how David responded is what separates him from the Animorphs. I don't think David is evil, but rather weaker than the Animorphs in determination and mental strength. When David lost his life to the yeerks, he started succumbing to selfish and easy acts.
I don't really think it's possible for anyone to proclaim that David was obviously going to turn evil or bad before reading the 21, or even 20. All of the other Animorphs have moments of weakness, Rachel's aggressiveness, Marco's ruthlessness, Jake's cold practicality, but in the end they "do the right thing" and emerge a hero. On the other hand, David who also started to face such decisions that showed his true characteristics chose to do the easy and selfish thing, rather than the right thing.
I guess, what I'm trying to say that to me, I feel like it's near impossible to know for sure that David would have turned out bad, but there were definately signs pointing to it when he made decisions, and its the accumulation of these decisions that made him more progressively "bad"
very nice first post
Title: Re: Did anybody think that David
Post by: adeon222 on January 24, 2010, 11:49:14 AM
Yes, great job expressing yourself... :)

I do not agree, however... I don't think that David lead a 'normal' life before he found out about the invasion... I mean, he named his cat Megadeath and his snake Spawn...  ::)

But seriously, David had major issues before his revelation... Deep down inside, he cared about his parents... but it's obvious that besides himself he didn't care about anyone else... He was overly paranoid and a selfish jerk before he joined the Anis...
(Plus, I don't see how you can see what he did to Sadler and his family, as well as the rest of the Animorphs as anything other than evil...)
Title: Re: Did anybody think that David
Post by: Chad32 on January 24, 2010, 12:33:11 PM
I think what he did to Saddler was extreme, but not totally evil. Thinking it's okay to kill people just because they're in morph is twisted and illogical. Selling out the world for the sake of his parents is what heroes in other stories do a lot.

Evil Guy: Give me the device that will allow me to operate my doomsday weapon and destroy civilization, and I will free the woman you love.

Hero: Okay, but only if you promise to free her.

I mean that's shown as the "right" thing to do, and it's not so different from what David was doing. So I can't count that as evil. Though sometimes the Hero takes a third option, I think they usually do what the evil Guy wants, then does something that luckily makes everything turn out okay in the end. And that's supposed to justify giving into the Evil Guy in the first place. Of course Visser Three wouldn't really free his parents, but then who does?

He was bad. I just wouldn't say he was a complete monster.
Title: Re: Did anybody think that David
Post by: adeon222 on January 24, 2010, 12:48:51 PM
I'm not saying that it was evil for him to want to get his family back... But let's think about this for a second...

David had about a hundred times better chance to get his family back by joining and helping the Animorphs than he had by turning against them and trying to steal the blue box and ransom it back to the Yeerks... What he did was evil because it was not for his parents... It was for him. He wanted power and he wanted his family and he wanted the freedom to do whatever he wanted without the Animorphs trying to impose morality on his actions...
Title: Re: Did anybody think that David
Post by: Chad32 on January 24, 2010, 01:16:30 PM
Yes because Jake is so good at rescuing family members from the Yeerks, isn't he?[/sarcasm]

Yes I know David did it partly for himself. He wanted his old life back, and his parents were part of his old life. The only part that had remained with him, as he moved from place to place so often.
Title: Re: Did anybody think that David
Post by: morfowt on January 24, 2010, 08:30:53 PM
what exactly would you have named your cat and snake? compared to what I can think of, David's names don't seem too out of the ordinary at all...
Title: Re: Did anybody think that David
Post by: SuperBlue on January 30, 2010, 03:47:17 PM
I knew that I didn't like him at all, before I even got halfway through 20... but I do remember my horror and outrage growing by leaps and bounds as he committed moronic/creepy/evil act after moronic/creepy/evil act...

By the end of the trilogy I was like, "Wow... This guy has psychological problems on the Hitler level..."
I always wanted to know what exactly David did to Saddler's body. I imagined he morphed lion and had a meal.

I always pictured David somehow sneaking Saddler out of his room and throwing him down one of the hospital's elevator shafts. Even if he survived the fall(not likely, depending on what floor they're on) he'd be screwed once the elevator came down
Title: Re: Did anybody think that David
Post by: esplin on January 30, 2010, 07:49:46 PM
Despite the David trilogy being my favorite part of the main series, I do have to say I was not all that surprised that the 'new' Animorph did not last. By book #20 the Animorphs were set in everyones mind, and a newcomer would never really be accepted by the readers as anything but an unnecessary addition. I think it was the right strategic decision for the series to make David a traitor, as it did more to develop the Ani's characterization than anything else in the series (with the possible exception of Tobias and Taylor).

So yeah...I wouldn't say I expected it, but I wasn't surprised by it either.

Thats pretty much how I felt.