Richard's Animorphs Forum

Animorphs Section => Animorphs Forum Classic => Topic started by: Ari on November 11, 2009, 03:56:06 AM

Title: Demorphing = Everything goes back to "default"?
Post by: Ari on November 11, 2009, 03:56:06 AM
Hey guys, I'm a newbie here, but I'm a long-time fan of the series. For the most part they're pretty well orchestrated, but there's one thing about morphing that always bugged me. Figured I'd post it.

It's obvious that morphing and demorphing can set someone's body back to default mode, getting rid of disabilities (like with the auxiliary Animorphs and Loren...) and injuries sustained while in morph. Basically, it reboots the genetic code or whatever. But what about someone who got surgery? I had really major kidney surgery a few years back, and if the problem came back I'd be in a lot of trouble. And the disabled Animorphs - any surgeries they got, did they disappear after morphing?

This goes for tattoos, earrings...basicall y any alterations to your body. Do you think they'd stay the same or reset after demorphing? Sorry if this has been asked before. Give me your opinions, please. :)

-Ari
Title: Re: Demorphing = Everything goes back to "default"?
Post by: goom on November 11, 2009, 04:07:53 AM
hey, welcome to the forum! ;)

i think it would reverse surgical processes. you weren't born with it, so it shouldn't stick around.
i'm sure there's a few KASUs around this topic.

eye (laser) surgery, circumcision,  pierced ears, pretty much any modifications would be defaulted back, i assume.
not sure how haircuts would play into that.

speaking of which.. would the animorphs never have to shower? (just morph and demorph when needed?)
Title: Re: Demorphing = Everything goes back to "default"?
Post by: musicman88 on November 11, 2009, 09:43:43 AM
Things like hair length, nail length, and stuff like that stay though. 
Title: Re: Demorphing = Everything goes back to "default"?
Post by: Phoenix004 on November 11, 2009, 10:27:31 AM
Well based on what we know we can assume that demorphing puts you back to the state you were in before you morphed (minus injuries), which means that your hair and nail length won't be affected (Rachel tried and failed to reverse a bad haircut in #2).

None of the Animorphs got tattoos (that we know of) but we know for a fact that Rachel had pierced ears (she dropped an earring in #32) so morphing obviously didn't heal those, even though they probably should have. I'd guess this might have something to do with the demorph returning them to the same amount of mass they were before they morphed, but then how would you account for injuries being healed? Or maybe Rachel just went and got her ears pierced again everytime she morphed?  :P

For things like surgery, I imagine the surgery should be reversed, but the reason for the surgery probably would be as well (eg. morphing away a bullet wound forces the bullet out and heals the wound). I suppose this means that most infections are "cured" by morphing, except for genetic conditions. Might be hard to explain to your doctor if your appendix or tonsils mysteriously reappear though...

I'm pretty sure you couldn't morph instead of showering though, as things like blood have often stayed with them when they've demorphed so dirt would too.
Title: Re: Demorphing = Everything goes back to "default"?
Post by: DinosaurNothlit on November 11, 2009, 11:55:48 AM
My own personal theory on the matter is that the morphing technology has some kind of rudimentary 'decision engine' built into it.  Like, maybe it accesses your memories and determines which things are "injuries" that need to be gotten rid of, and which things are necessary parts of who you are.  I mean, if everything was reset every time you morphed and you were rebuilt purely from genetic code alone, you would go back to being an embryo.  A lot of things about you are determined only after you start growing, after all.  Height, weight, and things like that are all affected by environment, and can be different even between two people who have the same genetic code.

Andalites are geniuses with computers, so it makes sense that they'd come up with a decision engine like that.  And it explains haircuts, pierced ears, many Andalites' scars, etc.  And Rachel could not trick it into giving her a different haircut because it would use memories, not current thoughts.

Anyway, the point I'm leading up to is, under my own personal theory of how it works, your surgery would be preserved.  :)  Buuuut a lot of people could argue things differently, since my theory is pretty much not supported at all by canon.  For one thing, you'd think, if I'm right about the way it worked, Ax would have bragged about it a little.  Andalites are, after all, insanely proud of their computer skillz.
Title: Re: Demorphing = Everything goes back to "default"?
Post by: adeon222 on November 11, 2009, 12:07:32 PM
Yeah, despite the many possible applications and opportunities that morphing presents, more or less the Andalites seem to be almost shy about it... Which doesn't really jive, considering their known tendency for self-publication...

So, either it's the pinnacle of their technology, and they just really prefer not to talk about it, or it's really not that impressive an advancement for them... ???
Title: Re: Demorphing = Everything goes back to "default"?
Post by: Phoenix004 on November 11, 2009, 01:47:59 PM
Or maybe KA figured that if she'd spent all this time trying to explain it there wouldn't have been room in the books to save the world from alien slugs? :P

I like your theory though Dino. It seems a little far-fetched even for the Andalites but I suppose it's possible. I briefly considered the possibility that the technology interpreted recent changes (such as a cut you received two minutes ago) to be injuries and preserved everything else, but that wouldn't make sense because the auxiliaries and Loren had long term injuries that were healed.
Title: Re: Demorphing = Everything goes back to "default"?
Post by: Ari on November 11, 2009, 03:22:35 PM
About the Andalite technology, they seemed pretty proud of it, which was why they were so against sharing it. Ax called it "the crown jewel" of their scientific advancements. Just that no other species was good enough for it. :D


Ditto; I really like your theory, Dino. ;)
Title: Re: Demorphing = Everything goes back to "default"?
Post by: anijen21 on November 11, 2009, 06:58:09 PM
For things like surgery, I imagine the surgery should be reversed, but the reason for the surgery probably would be as well (eg. morphing away a bullet wound forces the bullet out and heals the wound). I suppose this means that most infections are "cured" by morphing, except for genetic conditions. Might be hard to explain to your doctor if your appendix or tonsils mysteriously reappear though...

that's not true though, in #17 a couple of birdshot pellets stayed in Ax after he was shot as a Northern Harrier.

I think the series is inconsistent, and actually, it's kind of hard to imagine exactly how it works. There might be some kind of "residual self-image" stuff going on, that is, the morpher has some control over the modifications between morphs. It SEEMS like anything internal just stays the same. I mean, they can morph clothes, so I assume if you got like stints in your heart or tubes in your ear, those would stay. But if you had any kind of organ removal--eg, appendicitis, or that tria gland stuff in #29, as soon as you morph you've got a gall bladder again, you know?
Title: Re: Demorphing = Everything goes back to "default"?
Post by: Fwahm on November 11, 2009, 07:42:59 PM
The bullets stayed in Ax because he was shot in a smaller form than his natural one.

When Jake was shot in Rhino morph, they fell out because he shrunk when demorphed, making the bullets' position outside of his body as a human.
Title: Re: Demorphing = Everything goes back to "default"?
Post by: Green armadillo ette on November 11, 2009, 11:40:58 PM
Morphing also includes Z-space. Ax said that when you morph your mass goes to Z-space. So if you have pierced ears they would stay the same because the mass you put in Z-space would not be enough to close them. Same goes for a any missing body parts; inturnal or a limb.  I think the reason the auxiliary animorphs were not healed because they were missing an organ or limb. James, Erica, and Chirs were healed because they were the only ones who didn't have a genetic mess up or missing an organ.
Title: Re: Demorphing = Everything goes back to "default"?
Post by: DinosaurNothlit on November 12, 2009, 12:24:21 AM
Morphing also includes Z-space. Ax said that when you morph your mass goes to Z-space. So if you have pierced ears they would stay the same because the mass you put in Z-space would not be enough to close them. Same goes for a any missing body parts; inturnal or a limb.  I think the reason the auxiliary animorphs were not healed because they were missing an organ or limb. James, Erica, and Chirs were healed because they were the only ones who didn't have a genetic mess up or missing an organ.

Nah, because haven't they lost limbs before?  Not to mention all the blood they lose every battle.

If morphing didn't somehow replenish lost mass, I'd say any given Animorph would survive maybe three battles MAX before they died simply from blood loss . . .
Title: Re: Demorphing = Everything goes back to "default"?
Post by: goom on November 12, 2009, 01:51:02 AM
if it worked, wouldn't morphing be revolutionary for transplants?! :o

anyways, my thoughts:
when you morph, all your mass is put in z-space; so when you demorph you get that specific amount of mass back.
ear piercings (small hole), missing limbs, stuff like that wouldn't come back (as armadillo pointed out).
your body would try to be restored to the way it was right before your morphed.
i'm sure there were a few beneficial goofs along the way (eyesight, disabilities etc.), but for the most part it seems consistant.

from the point where you acquired an animal, any injuries attained would be removed after a re-morph.
they could regain lost appendages only this way. (even with a human morph; wouldn't that make a good magic show?)

seem reasonable?
Title: Re: Demorphing = Everything goes back to "default"?
Post by: Fwahm on November 12, 2009, 08:48:04 AM
No, because James's legs were tiny and weak before he could morph, due to him not using it, but after he morphed, his legs were fit and strong.  He got back more mass than he started with.
Title: Re: Demorphing = Everything goes back to "default"?
Post by: adeon222 on November 12, 2009, 10:59:36 AM
And then there was Tobias' broken wing in MM2... That was just like, "Huh? What exactly is going on here?"
Title: Re: Demorphing = Everything goes back to "default"?
Post by: goom on November 12, 2009, 12:59:42 PM
yeah.. the broken wing was poorly incorporated with 'time-traveler's syndrome'.

No, because James's legs were tiny and weak before he could morph, due to him not using it, but after he morphed, his legs were fit and strong.  He got back more mass than he started with.
maybe he got the mass from somewhere else in his body?
Title: Re: Demorphing = Everything goes back to "default"?
Post by: adeon222 on November 12, 2009, 01:20:44 PM
Morphosuction!!!! The newest in Physical therapy and plastic surgery!
Title: Re: Demorphing = Everything goes back to "default"?
Post by: Hewlett Aldershot III on November 12, 2009, 01:59:08 PM
Well, as for the regain of mass, I think that it is probably derived from z-space. We know that the excess mass for larger morphs has to come from somewhere (how else would they grow into, say, a rhino) and I think that it makes sense that it's drawn from the lack of mass in z-space. If all positive matter has an opposite equal of anti-matter, it would make sense that when anti-matter is drawn out of z-space, it would turn into positive matter, thusly augmenting your original mass. Least that makes sense to me lol
Title: Re: Demorphing = Everything goes back to "default"?
Post by: Fwahm on November 12, 2009, 03:24:12 PM
Or maybe the Andalites created a huge "mass battery" that floats in some far off place in Z-space for anyone who morphs.
Title: Re: Demorphing = Everything goes back to "default"?
Post by: Darth Revan on November 12, 2009, 06:16:59 PM
Did Visser 3 still have the same cut that Alloran had in TAC? 'Cause they never mention V3's scar. But Alloran got a nickname because of it.

If Alloran had a scar before morphing, and V3 now doesn't have a scar, wouldn't that negate the recent injury theory?
Title: Re: Demorphing = Everything goes back to "default"?
Post by: Green armadillo ette on November 12, 2009, 09:53:15 PM
The morphing also involves DNA (no duh!). So I belive that the DNA is stored with your mass in Z-space. When you demorph you morphs DNA and mass moves to Z-space, while your mass and DNA pops out. You reicve all of your DNA that is there, but let's say that when you morphed you did not have a kidney therefore no kidney DNA. When you demorph then you still won't have a kidney becuase the kidney DNA isn't there. Also for morphs maybe it only stores the DNA. And if you where blind or deaf before you morph the DNA for sight/hearing is still there and is only bocked by your brian. When you demorph you wouldn't be blind/deaf becuase your DNA is there and the "blockaid" in your brian goes away.  
Title: Re: Demorphing = Everything goes back to "default"?
Post by: Darth Revan on November 13, 2009, 12:20:35 AM
And if you where blind or deaf before you morph the DNA for sight/hearing is still there and is only bocked by your brian. When you demorph you wouldn't be blind/deaf becuase your DNA is there and the "blockaid" in your brian goes away. 

We have Brians in our heads? I thought we had brains. hmm... I was way off. ;D

The kidney that was removed doesn't have it's own separate DNA, DNA is constant throughout our bodies. DNA governs how many Kidneys we have, if your DNA said that you don't have a kidney, then you don't; but since human DNA says  we do, and that we have two, we do.
Title: Re: Demorphing = Everything goes back to "default"?
Post by: Green armadillo ette on November 13, 2009, 01:00:08 PM
Opps i was thinking about cells. And I missspelled something! Is that illegel !?!Kidding!
Title: Re: Demorphing = Everything goes back to "default"?
Post by: Darth Revan on November 13, 2009, 01:07:09 PM
Well, there are large differences between the organ which gives us the capacity for abstract thought and Peter Griffin's dog.

You'll find I'm a grammar nazi, so be prepare for an occasional correction here or there.
Title: Re: Demorphing = Everything goes back to "default"?
Post by: anijen21 on November 13, 2009, 02:11:58 PM
yes parker, we will be very prepare
Title: Re: Demorphing = Everything goes back to "default"?
Post by: Darth Revan on November 13, 2009, 02:12:46 PM
Hahaha, nice catch. ;) +1

I had hoped he'd catch it. :-\
Title: Re: Demorphing = Everything goes back to "default"?
Post by: anijen21 on November 13, 2009, 02:16:00 PM
I totally believe you
Title: Re: Demorphing = Everything goes back to "default"?
Post by: Darth Revan on November 13, 2009, 02:23:50 PM
Yet somehow, I don't believe you. :)

We've had a thread about the tattoo aspect of this thread, but not about surgery. That's a good thought.

That made me think. I have two 6" long bolts (essentially) holding my legs in place. what would happen if I had morphed, would those bolts morph as well? Would they morph back? 'Cause if I morph back, I wouldn't have need for those bolts. My condition would've been reversed.
Title: Re: Demorphing = Everything goes back to "default"?
Post by: DinosaurNothlit on November 13, 2009, 02:28:48 PM
That made me think. I have two 6" long bolts (essentially) holding my legs in place. what would happen if I had morphed, would those bolts morph as well? Would they morph back? 'Cause if I morph back, I wouldn't have need for those bolts. My condition would've been reversed.

Theoretically, they should work like the morphing suits, wouldn't they?  And I think it's been said that you need to concentrate on the morphing suit to make it appear when you morph, on top of just concentrating on your human form.  So, theoretically, you ought to be able to choose whether the bolts reappear or not.
Title: Re: Demorphing = Everything goes back to "default"?
Post by: ThinkAgain on November 13, 2009, 11:34:05 PM
The bolts are inside his body though, so for all intents and purposes, I'm going to parallel them to food in one's stomach - they disappear when he morphs, and reappear when he demorphs.

 The problem is that bolts and newly healed bone can't exist in the same place at the same time, which is where the complications arise. Either one set of mass is ignored/left in Z-Space, or one is displaced - either way, it's going to hurt, especially if it's random (half the metal and half the bone is displaced).
Title: Re: Demorphing = Everything goes back to "default"?
Post by: voodooqueen126 on November 14, 2009, 12:01:00 AM
Try it and be in pain. get the bolts removed then morph?
Title: Re: Demorphing = Everything goes back to "default"?
Post by: adeon222 on November 14, 2009, 02:07:05 AM
Actually, my guess would be that the bolts would be too large/of too solid a material that they wouldn't be brought along with the morph... Perhaps like the chips in the Animorphs' heads when they were sharks... might fall out, just like a bullet or something, or might stay in there forever, threatening to seriously damage tissue if you morph something too small...
Title: Re: Demorphing = Everything goes back to "default"?
Post by: Darth Revan on November 14, 2009, 05:35:46 AM
That'd be cool. Plus there's no pain while in morph. Good answer Adeon :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Demorphing = Everything goes back to "default"?
Post by: goom on November 14, 2009, 03:21:35 PM
that'd be an interesting concept - morphing causing pain. :D
Title: Re: Demorphing = Everything goes back to "default"?
Post by: adeon222 on November 14, 2009, 03:26:17 PM
Didn't morphing cause pain when they were trying to get rid of the brain chips? Or am I remembering wrongly?
Title: Re: Demorphing = Everything goes back to "default"?
Post by: goom on November 14, 2009, 03:27:00 PM
i think you're correct.
well, it was the brain chip causing pain, not the morphing itself. but yeah.
Title: Re: Demorphing = Everything goes back to "default"?
Post by: Darth Revan on November 16, 2009, 01:40:33 PM
Hmmm... on second thought, that might hurt a lot then. :-\

I'd still do it though. One brief moment of excuciating pain compared to the rest of my life with renewed legs? Not much choice there. ;D
Title: Re: Demorphing = Everything goes back to "default"?
Post by: Homiegee on November 16, 2009, 05:10:51 PM
Or maybe the Andalites created a huge "mass battery" that floats in some far off place in Z-space for anyone who morphs.

Ax or one of the other characters actually mentioned that in a book. Now I can't remember which one it was.

As for how the morphing technology works, I'd have to go with DN's theory.
Title: Re: Demorphing = Everything goes back to "default"?
Post by: Darth Revan on November 16, 2009, 06:40:06 PM
As for how the morphing technology works, I'd have to go with DN's theory.

Which theory about how what works?
Title: Re: Demorphing = Everything goes back to "default"?
Post by: adeon222 on November 17, 2009, 12:58:40 AM
I'd still do it though. One brief moment of excuciating pain compared to the rest of my life with renewed legs? Not much choice there. ;D


If you did it right, I guess... I mean, I'm not sure what kind of bolts you got, or how they are attached or whatnot... but if they get stuck in the process, you might be stuck with them...

I would advocate removing the bolts first, and then morphing... (probably still painful, but hey, no worries afterward, right?)
Title: Re: Demorphing = Everything goes back to "default"?
Post by: Homiegee on November 17, 2009, 01:19:30 AM
As for how the morphing technology works, I'd have to go with DN's theory.

Which theory about how what works?

Dinosaur Nothlit's theory on the first page of this thread that the morphing technology has a built-in computer that can tell what is an injury and what isn't.
Title: Re: Demorphing = Everything goes back to "default"?
Post by: Darth Revan on November 17, 2009, 02:10:04 PM
Ah, okay. Yeah, it helps to be specific, we have lots of theories. ;D

My bolts can be removed, but it would mean nerve damage. However if I'm going to morph, who cares about nerve damage? Morphing heals all!!!
Title: Re: Demorphing = Everything goes back to "default"?
Post by: adeon222 on November 18, 2009, 12:50:43 AM
Exactly! If you don't mind the (most likely) excruciating pain that would go along with it, I'm sure that you'd be fine!

Unless of course, we were to go with a morphing-memory connection idea that would necessitate you actually remembering a time when your legs were whole, and not a simple DNA related theory...
(can you remember, btw?)
Title: Re: Demorphing = Everything goes back to "default"?
Post by: Darth Revan on November 18, 2009, 05:22:47 AM
Yeah, but it was 12 years ago. ;D
Title: Re: Demorphing = Everything goes back to "default"?
Post by: adeon222 on November 18, 2009, 12:07:03 PM
Well, as long as you can remember it, I don't think there would be a problem with either theory! :)
Title: Re: Demorphing = Everything goes back to "default"?
Post by: Darth Revan on November 18, 2009, 12:55:18 PM
True, but will I morph my 12 year old body? How awkward would that be? Remembering your childhood when you demorph and then you change into your adolescent self.
Title: Re: Demorphing = Everything goes back to "default"?
Post by: Darth Revan on November 19, 2009, 01:51:16 PM
DNA doesn't change. That's why it's a foolproof identifier. Your body's cells change based on the code contained in your DNA, your DNA itself doesn't change.
Title: Re: Demorphing = Everything goes back to "default"?
Post by: anijen21 on November 19, 2009, 02:26:37 PM
of course DNA changes. What causes cancer?
Title: Re: Demorphing = Everything goes back to "default"?
Post by: adeon222 on November 20, 2009, 11:06:12 AM
True, but will I morph my 12 year old body? How awkward would that be? Remembering your childhood when you demorph and then you change into your adolescent self.

I woulds bwe cweeped out...  :huh:

of course DNA changes. What causes cancer?

Cancer is sort of it's own thing... it's caused by mutation, but it basically creates a different kind of living tissue inside you... It's not your DNA... That doesn't change...
Title: Re: Demorphing = Everything goes back to "default"?
Post by: anijen21 on November 20, 2009, 11:49:52 AM
Cancer is one kind of mutation. I mean, DNA by definition is supposed to stay the same throughout life, but it doesn't. It's why they have such trouble cloning complex organisms. The DNA of a grown man is too different from the DNA of an infant.
Title: Re: Demorphing = Everything goes back to "default"?
Post by: Darth Revan on November 20, 2009, 12:42:28 PM
Not the code within him. The cells may be different, but the persons DNA is the same.

But this is another "Uh-huh/Nuh-uh" argument. We need to get back on topic.


I'm certain, as Dino said, that the Andalites programmed a failsafe that prevents anything like that from happening.
Title: Re: Demorphing = Everything goes back to "default"?
Post by: anijen21 on November 20, 2009, 02:07:27 PM
I've really underestimated the power of this "get back on topic" thing haven't I

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DNA_damage_theory_of_aging

NOW GET BACK ON TOPIC
Title: Re: Demorphing = Everything goes back to "default"?
Post by: Darth Revan on November 20, 2009, 02:27:08 PM
Whatever, shouty. ::)
Title: Re: Demorphing = Everything goes back to "default"?
Post by: Elfangor Sirinial Shamtul on November 25, 2009, 11:23:15 AM
I really dont know