Richard's Animorphs Forum
Animorphs Section => Animorphs Forum Classic => Topic started by: CounterInstinct on June 23, 2008, 06:13:42 AM
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Well, I just reread "The Attack" and I just noticed that, in the end, the Ellimist "warps" them back to Cassie's barn as if nothing had happened. In my opinion, it happened as if Jake "never" acquired the Howler... probably right huh?
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not really. they were back in cassie's barn, but they never say at the same time as they left. the ellimist only said their parents wouldn't know they were gone.
in my opinion he doesn't morph because howlers are sentient creatures.
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I never understodd the "no sentient creatures" rule. It's not the same. A sentient morph is not the same as a sentient being.
They morph several sentient beings over the course of the series, and whenever they do the morphs never start talking back.
As for the Howler, it's dead. A dead sentient lifeform won't care if you morph it.
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The sentient morphs rule was not about control, more about ethics. You can morphs sentient creatures, but only with it's permission.
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Because that is what a Yeerk would do. They control sentient beings. You say its just a morph, but still, what happens? You become that creature, THEN you control the creature. If the morph is sentient, then it is no different from controlling a sentient being.
It's impractical, but its morally wrong. I'd feel insulted if someone morphed me or morphed my father. Heck, I'd feel insulted if he morphed my long gone grandmother....
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Because that is what a Yeerk would do. They control sentient beings. You say its just a morph, but still, what happens? You become that creature, THEN you control the creature. If the morph is sentient, then it is no different from controlling a sentient being.
It's impractical, but its morally wrong. I'd feel insulted if someone morphed me or morphed my father. Heck, I'd feel insulted if he morphed my long gone grandmother....
But the actual morph has no sentience. It isn't any more aware of what's happening than any other morph they do. Sure there are instincts, but no higher awareness.
Plus, the morph is like another you. Which means you can keep living your life separate of the morpher. It's no different from morphing an animal, as far as I can tell. It's not the same.
A Yeerk takes the host, body and soul. A morpher takes a single strand of DNA, which does not hinder the other person's life in any way.
If a morphed sentient lifeform showed higher awareness of what was really happening, then it would be different. But it doesn't. There's no real person inside the mind. Just base instincts.
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well it doesn't matter. they have the rule. you can't change that fact.
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I doubt that Jake not morphing the Howler had much to do with the sentient species rule, although that could have been a factor.
I think it's more likely that he chooses not to morph it because of his uncomfortable experience in the Howler morph. He thought it would be a brutal killing machine, but it was actually a fun loving species that didn't realise that killing was wrong. Clearly this upset Jake, which is probably why he never morphs it after book 26. Besides, he's got his Tiger morph so he doesn't really need to use the Howler morph.
It's also possible that (for whatever reason) he can no longer morph the Howler. Maybe Crayak or the Ellimist made it impossible for him to morph it? (Something to do with their rules?) Or perhaps it's kinda like Megamorphs 2 where they can't morph the Dinosaurs after they've gone back through the Sario Rip?
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The being you morph may well be an "empty shell" but its a matter of invasion of privacy. Humans are very self conscious about their bodies and to morph into one, you would invade their privacy. Additionally your subsequent actions as this morphed human will come into play.
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It's also possible that (for whatever reason) he can no longer morph the Howler. Maybe Crayak or the Ellimist made it impossible for him to morph it? (Something to do with their rules?) Or perhaps it's kinda like Megamorphs 2 where they can't morph the Dinosaurs after they've gone back through the Sario Rip?
so it's impossible for him to keep the howler morph, but not impossible for the howlers to keep the piece of memory they recently got (the one with jake and cassie kissing) and not impossible for guide to still have his riches?
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It's also possible that (for whatever reason) he can no longer morph the Howler. Maybe Crayak or the Ellimist made it impossible for him to morph it? (Something to do with their rules?) Or perhaps it's kinda like Megamorphs 2 where they can't morph the Dinosaurs after they've gone back through the Sario Rip?
so it's impossible for him to keep the howler morph, but not impossible for the howlers to keep the piece of memory they recently got (the one with jake and cassie kissing) and not impossible for guide to still have his riches?
I'm not the Ellimist, and I'm not Crayak. I don't make the rules, but if I did, then I think I'd excuse the Howler memory thing (since that was part of the game!) and I honestly wouldn't care about Guide being rich or not.
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i would have morphed it
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well didnt crayak have control over all the howlers minds or something, so maybe jake just didnt want to get too close to crayak, like in lotr where he didnt want to wear the ring cause it kinda focused sauron on him, something like that
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Why would Jake want to morph a Howler again? Its howl would do as much damage to his friends as it would to his enemies.
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Why would Jake want to morph a Howler again? Its howl would do as much damage to his friends as it would to his enemies.
True that. He'd have to be in a situation where he was separated from his friends by quite a bit. I can imagine Ax panicking a little if he saw Jake start morphing Howler. He suffered from the howl more than the rest.
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@ Ketsban:
A howler's punch can stagger a grizzly bear. And a Grizzly is really, really, REALLY, tough.... They don't actually need the howl, except agains really, really experience fighters or mass killings.
Because that is what a Yeerk would do. They control sentient beings. You say its just a morph, but still, what happens? You become that creature, THEN you control the creature. If the morph is sentient, then it is no different from controlling a sentient being.
It's impractical, but its morally wrong. I'd feel insulted if someone morphed me or morphed my father. Heck, I'd feel insulted if he morphed my long gone grandmother....
But the actual morph has no sentience. It isn't any more aware of what's happening than any other morph they do. Sure there are instincts, but no higher awareness.
Plus, the morph is like another you. Which means you can keep living your life separate of the morpher. It's no different from morphing an animal, as far as I can tell. It's not the same.
A Yeerk takes the host, body and soul. A morpher takes a single strand of DNA, which does not hinder the other person's life in any way.
If a morphed sentient lifeform showed higher awareness of what was really happening, then it would be different. But it doesn't. There's no real person inside the mind. Just base instincts.
Doesn't mean that if it doesn't physically affect the other being, doesn't mean it is wrong.... I think it's a matter of how humans value privacy or something. I wouldn't like it if someone morphed me, even if my own mind wasn't there. Heck, if I was dead, I STILL wouldn't want anyone morphing me.
But, after I reread the Attack, Jake felt kind of a remorse for the Howlers. He indirectly wiped out a race of howlers, who didn't know killing was wrong.
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I think it's more likely that he chooses not to morph it because of his uncomfortable experience in the Howler morph. He thought it would be a brutal killing machine, but it was actually a fun loving species that didn't realise that killing was wrong. Clearly this upset Jake, which is probably why he never morphs it after book 26. Besides, he's got his Tiger morph so he doesn't really need to use the Howler morph.
I always thought that this was the reason also. The Howlers are basically just children "playing" in the battlefield. I always assumed that Jake and the Animorphs unanimously felt that Crayak had crossed the line with this. So having Jake morph a Howler for their own battles would've just made them hypocrites for doing the same thing.
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I think he isn't able to morph a howler anymore. I don't thin Crayak thought one of the Animorphs would want to (or be able to get close enough to acquire one). After Vrayak lost, he probably sulked and moped about Jake acquiring one of his creations. I doubt he would have thought Jake keeping the Howler would have been fair (imagine how many Yeerks he could wipe out! Especially when do few controllers would even know that such beings existed--otherwise, I'm sure Esplin would have tried to get his hands on one.) so the Ellimist probably removed the DNA to please Crayak and the rules.
Or maybe Jake is just uncomfortable about morphing aliens...Xenophobe, what? :p
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I agree with those who say that Jake doesn't morph the Howler because they are "children playing in a battlefield." I think I, too, would avoid that morph except in the most desperate of circumstances.
As far as the "we won't morph a sentient being argument," I've never, ever liked that. It doesn't make any sense, at all. Sentience isn't about intelligence. It's the ability to feel or perceive. Sentience isn't caused by DNA but by the presence of a soul. The Animorphs can only morph the animal--they cannot morph a soul. An Animorph can look like a sentient being and have all the traits of being a sentient being, but they are still themselves. Their essence, their soul, whatever you want to call it, remains the same, and they do not gain a second one just by the act of morphing. Morphing has to do with the physical, not the spiritual.
And they HAVE morphed other people before. I remember the book where they crashed the summit with David and Marco had to morph a man. I don't remember them having an argument over souls and sentient lifeforms. They just did what they had to do.
Ethics are important and they keep us from becoming those we fight but I think that Applegate overdid it with the whole "we won't morph something sentient" argument. It always came off as contrived, to me.
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i agree! it's stupid that we have to put up with them not morphing sentient beings e=when if they did that it'd be a LOT eastier for them to win. oh and bu the way they can't morph the dinosaur they aquired because a sario rip going through a lot of time affacts morphing power... don't ask me how though. that's alos why tobias couldn't morph away his injuries.
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A few other points that no one mentioned.
1: The Howlers are all linked telepathically, wherever they are in the Galaxy. Ethics aside, if Jake morphed the Howler for any reason the others would know about Earth. And the Pemalites learned the hardway what happens when the Howlers gate crash your planet.
2: Yes, they did morph humans, Hork-Bajir and other sentient beings a number of times. But only when it was absolutely necessary and there was no other way the task could be accomplished. They didn't do it out of convenience or with the intention of doing anything other than advancing their cause in the war against the Yeerks. (Or in Tobias' case, saving his friends from being stuffed.)
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A few other points that no one mentioned.
1: The Howlers are all linked telepathically, wherever they are in the Galaxy. Ethics aside, if Jake morphed the Howler for any reason the others would know about Earth. And the Pemalites learned the hardway what happens when the Howlers gate crash your planet.
I actually thought about that, but wasn't sure whether I should post it up. Some people are under the impression that Crayak wiped out the Howlers after watching Jake and Cassie kiss. I always took that to mean that he destroyed the seven that were on the Iskoort homeworld, but maybe he destroyed them all.
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No, he couldn't wipe the memory of Jake kissing Cassie. So the Howlers were slated to try the "kissing" attack on a new species, which would leave them vulnerable to counter attack presumably. But the Howlers are Crayak's ace in the hole either way. When the kissing move didn't work the new batch out of the factory would probably move onto something else.
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i wish i actually read the 26th book... well maybe crayak just didn't want jake using a morph of the howler so he just erased it from jake.
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Actually if they were in morph, the howl wouldnt affect them as long as they weren't sentinent morphs. In Alternamorphs 2 when The howler howls while your morphed Komodo dragon it doesn't affect you at all.
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Bringing up that particular book won't help your argument, as it is [apparently] filled with plot errors.
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Yeah and anyway, nobody can apparently believe the line "YOU HAVE ANGERED ME" from the ellemist.
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Technically just because you have the howl doesn't mean you have to use it. As CounterInstinct said even without the howl it's physically more capable than most other creatures. This leads me to assume that somehow he lost the morph as opposed to doesn't try/want to use it.
If it was me there'd be no way I wouldn't even try once to remorph a Howler. It'd be like magically having a Chee fighting on your side and deliberately saying "Actually this would be too difficult for you emotionally. Let us in our less capable morphs do the hardwork. Sit this one out. The fate and suffering of the entire human race doesn't really matter."
As for being afraid of alerting the Howlers of where Earth is, how would this even work? Jake (my best guess) is no astrophysicist and will not have a universal (G)PS homing device just by morphing a Howler. I can understand not wanting to tap into the collective memory if it's going to be all bloody and horrific but he doesn't have to use it. He wasn't overwhelmed last time. So it's more likely that somehow the morph was removed by Crayak or the Ellimist.
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More than capable in alternamorphs a howlers arm got cut off. Then grew back. Thats the best morph in the world in fact without the memory base it would be cool to be nothlit in anyway because its a fun loving species.