Richard's Animorphs Forum
Animorphs Section => Animorphs Forum Classic => Topic started by: AlothAssassin on July 12, 2009, 01:54:16 AM
-
I hate the idea of even making a thread like this, being one of those folks who doesn't want people to screw around with this story, and just leave it be. But I couldn't help noticing while watching Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles, that this girl had a pretty striking "Rachel" quality about her, in both appearance and kind of...intensity, is probably the word.
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1628079/
Too old, obviously, but she's definitely got the right look for Rachel. Like almost exactly, which I haven't really noticed any other actors to have. First time for everything, I guess.
She has a couple of very brief "aggressive" scenes in the show too, and seemed to be able to switch between that "normal suburban mallrat girl" and "shrieking yelling Xena" pretty admirably.
http://www.soapsonabc.com/files/2008/06/leven-rambin-nc.jpg
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_QWOXmjFGlEM/SdDm9rVoLjI/AAAAAAAAMQE/3q9Pjb99v_M/s400/MV5BMTAyNzI5MDc2MDleQTJeQWpwZ15BbWU3MDEwODQ1MzI@._V1._SX288_SY400_.jpg
Obviously I'm not suggesting they cast this girl as Rachel, just thought she fit the right archetype pretty much exactly, and it's the first time I've seen anyone who really leapt off the screen as "Rachel-ish". Her character on the show is pretty different, but just little mannerisms and stuff totally felt right. If they ever do make another attempt at adapting Animorphs, they should probably go for someone reasonably similar in look to her, pretty but kind of "normal" and real, with the ability to kind of pull off both intelligence/sarcastic wit and the fearless bravado on screen.
There's probably been a thread like this somewhere before over the years, was just curious to see if there were any actors you've seen that screamed "one of the Animorphs characters". Either the main kids or supporting characters, doesn't matter.
The only other ones I've felt may work were a curiosity over whether Ron Glass, Shepherd Book from Firefly/Serenity, would make a decent Visser. Or even Elfangor, I suppose, he has that whole strong regal quality and deep badass voice for either, though I'd think casting someone that age as 'Fangor may pose problems later on, if they ever did a Chronicles type of dealio.
-
I feel like if Animorphs is ever made into a big-budget CGI movie, they should cast 6 unknowns. You can always dye an actress' hair and give her color contacts, looks should only be a part of the equation.
I used to think that Ralph Fiennes would've made a killer Visser 3, but since he's Voldemort that's kind of a villain overkill. I think he could pull him off.
Voldemort is a lot more evil than Visser 3: toward the end of the series, Visser 3 started to become less scary and more humorously incompetent. It would have to depend on how the production company would intend to interpet his character.
-
We've had over 9000 casting threads.
-
I feel like if Animorphs is ever made into a big-budget CGI movie, they should cast 6 unknowns.
Completely agree.
Just thought I'd make a thread, since it's pretty much the first time I've seen anyone in anything who displayed qualities that seem pretty congruent with one of the kids in the series. She's like five years too old anyway. And Ron's mucho old-o by now.
So neither are right for the characters, but just felt they each showed some pretty suitable attributes that would fit well.
-
I think it would be cool if they did it in Clone Wars style animation, that way the characters can look very true to the books, special effects would be seamless, foreign worlds and beings wouldn't look like costumes, and it would be a lot cheaper.
-
As in, the CG Clone Wars thing?
Hell no. Traditional animation or nothing, these CG shows always end up looking so cheap and pathetic.
But, hey, better yet, let's just hope they leave it well alone. There's no need for any adaptation.
-
Yeah, the newest Clone Wars stuff. I think it would look really cool, and way better than anything they would do with live action becuase honestly if this movie ever gets made it will be small budget. If you have a small budget don't even waste your time on a live action Animorphs movie, it would just end up being a disappointment. At least with animation they would have a better shot at living up to what the books describe.
-
Agreed on that front.
But with animation, in most American cases you're slapped with a G rating. Which is going to inhibit the story and tone even more than the low budget of the crappy studio movie.
This series doesn't work outside of books.
-
I think it can if you try hard enough, you just have to go through the books with a fine comb and only use the best stuff. If it were me I would just combine the best stories into one 2 hour movie and leave it at that. Besides, what kind of crowd was Animorphs intended for, young children, a pg rating would get the job done.
-
Except, no. Nobody wants to see animals fighting without actually fighting.
You know what tigers and bears do? They MAUL and SHRED people. It'd never make it into a movie the way it is in the books.
-
We've had over 9000 casting threads.
:o WOW thats a lot
-
Oh there are a million ways to show brutal violence without showing brutal violence.
-
Except, no. Nobody wants to see animals fighting without actually fighting.
Chronicles of Narnia friend, Chronicles of Narnia. Violence, death, a lion friggin' biting the head off some chick (you don't see it but it's so heavily implied you might as well have) and kids rushed to the theators.
Now to my knowledge the film didn't get an R rating (I think PG-13) yet it contained the sort of large scale violence that could be comparable to an Animorphs battle, you don't have to actually show Jake biting the neck off a Hork-Bajir, it's enough to show him leap on it, show him going for the neck but falling off screen before he actually bites it, hear the Hork-Bajir grunt or something then see the tiger get up and leap away.
It doesnt need to be Saving Private Ryan or anything to still be good.
On the other hand Narnia was live action and a live action Animorphs would be terrible. Still live action or animated the principal is the same, you don't need to show the death blow for people to know it landed.
Also, if the movie were just the first book it wouldn't even need to be that violent compared to some of the later stuff. Audiecnes would have no problem seeing Taxxons getting smashed, or Hork-Bajir getting flung around since in the case of the former "they're just bugs" and in the case of the latter "well maybe he's okay" and though they did it in a really dopey looking way, even the TV series allowed for Elfangor's death, their biggest hurtle would probably be the whole burning hosts alive thing that the Visser pulls at the end.
-
I agree, JFalcon. In Narnia you have the huge battle with op[posing forces going headlong at each other, that we all know ends in bloody messes and piles of dead bodies. We don't need to actually see that, since we know it happens in real life.
And we know the lion ripped her face/throat off/out. I doubt anyone would argue that he licked her into submission.
In an animated movie, where Visser Three is burning people alive, I would likely show a lot of fire, and sillouettes in the fire, where you hear a lot of screams. That would be enough, I think. That and eating Elfangor really sets him off as a complete monster. I wish he had lasted longer like that.
-
During the TV series I noticed that Jake (Shawn Ashmore) plays the evil him brilliantly. Now that he is older they should bring him back as Tom. Although the results will be extremly variable as there are some who remeber him as Jake (or more likely as Iceman).
-
During the TV series I noticed that Jake (Shawn Ashmore) plays the evil him brilliantly. Now that he is older they should bring him back as Tom. Although the results will be extremly variable as there are some who remeber him as Jake (or more likely as Iceman).
I think that the supporting roles (Visser 3, Chapman, Erek, Tom, Visser 1), should be played by big names. Unknowns give the audience a fresh start on the character whereas people already have opinions about well-known actors. Any girl would go to see some Disney Star in a bit role in Animorphs, but having a Jonas Brother play Marco would be disastrous.
Having Shawn Ashmore play Tom would be an interesting fan-service, but he might be too old by then, especially if it were a multiple-movie series. Maybe Chapman? I also don't think he could handle the stark contrast between portraying Tom and Tom's Yeerk.
I also think that if it becomes a franchise and the David story arc is included (which is likely), David would have a much larger role in sheer numbers, so it's important to cast him well too. I'd also say an unknown for David, but it's not as important.
I think a lot of people (not so much on here) want to say "OMG WE SHOULD HAVE BLAKE LIVELY AS RACHEL AND ROB PATTINSON AS JAKE!!1!", but you really can't have famous people in these types of movies other than in smaller roles to draw in viewers. Hello, look at Harry Potter: no name stars, big name supporting characters. It works.
-
The animals in Narnia don't even look half real, come on. It's regular CG, I don't want any Animorphs movie to look like freakin' Narnia.
From a technical aspect, we'll just have to wait and see whether photo-realism is possible after December with Avatar. That's when we'll know. Hey, if the technology gets to that stage, I have no problem with a computer-animal movie.
As of now though, we haven't seen any movie where it's done right, where you can't tell the difference. Aslan looks artificial as hell.
And Narnia wasn't anywhere near as violent as the Animorphs books. You never see swords connecting, injuries, etc, it's all done in a way that's accessible to kids. And that's great, that's how Narnia should be. Animorphs as an entire story relies entirely on the fact that, in war, people get f'ed up.
-
I thought the animals looked fine in Narnia. I think an Animorphs series could be done well without hammering in the "war is bad" message nearly as much as KA did. No one would ever be able to market a show to children unless they toned it way down. Adults sure, but adults are not the target demographic. If they included all of that, I doubt they'd get below rated R.
-
During the TV series I noticed that Jake (Shawn Ashmore) plays the evil him brilliantly. Now that he is older they should bring him back as Tom. Although the results will be extremly variable as there are some who remeber him as Jake (or more likely as Iceman).
I always thought of Jake as looking as he did in the first few books he was in, with the dark brown hair. So when I watched the series, I was disappointed by Shaun's appearance nd the lack of resemblance.
-
No one would ever be able to market a show to children unless they toned it way down.
Look, what's the point of adapting Animorphs if you don't keep the one unique thing about it?
When you think about the general overall concept of Animorphs, it's pretty goofy. Kids fighting aliens by turning into zoo animals. That's not what made these books interesting. The draw has always been that it's a kid's series, yes, but a kid's series that didn't talk down to kids. It didn't oversimplify, it didn't portray things in a rock 'em sock 'em blockbuster manner.
That means gritty, that means consequences stemming from actions.
If you play this safe, it automatically becomes another "blahhh" franchise about adolescents with powers saving the world. That's not interesting in the slightest. It's not going to stick out from the crowd or maintain its allure.
I'm not saying for a minute that an Animorphs movie of Narnia quality can't be made. Personally, I just have this supposedly crazy notion of aiming a little higher. There's actual potential in this series, if someone comes along with the balls to make it right, and actually challenge people. Just because the main characters are thirteen, doesn't mean it has to be a dumb summer feelgood movie.
Absolute necessities with this would be: a) casting all unknowns for the primary characters, b) having a hard PG-13 tone (grittier than superhero movies, but not quite Rambo), and c) actually having the guts to adapt this more or less page for page. Any idiot can chicken out and give us Power Rangers With Animals, or a teenage Fantastic Four. It's a little trickier to maintain the courage Katherine and Michael showed in not babying their audience.
-
It would be great if they can push it as far as a PG13 rating will allow, but I'm saying people have higher standards for movies and shows than for books. Anyone who tries everything that KA did in the books, and tries to give it a PG13 rating would have media watchdogs and moral guardians kicking down their doors.
Of course this might be why some people around here say a movie wouldn't work out. Because they wouldn't be able to pull the stuff with a movie that KA pulled with the books. Of course I would still go see it. Because I believe the important stuff for the series is not pushing the subtext. I like the text text.
The reason the TV show failed was not because they didn't push the envelope and show scenes like what was described in the books. It was stupid stuff like morphing a tiger in the pool, attacking one guy, then demorphing. Andalite arm wrestling. Visser Three being in Human form at times when there's no reason to be. Aliens looking like crap, and morphs being all wrong.
I really don't think they could make the books into a PG13 movie/series without toning it down. Maybe that means it just wouldn't work. If so, then there's nothing that can be done. You either get a movie or series that's as true as possible to the books that winds up being rated R, or you tone it down a few notched and make do with the hardest core PG13 possible. That's a decision to make before anything else.
-
That's the thing though, this series needs that stuff.
It's one thing for kids to read violence, but you can't show it visually without the censors shutting you down.
This series, without the "reality of war" aspect, just becomes completely average. It blends in, it's "meh", it doesn't offer anything worthwhile when you begin to make it for young teens, instead of for everyone while still being accessible to them.
If you can't get across the fact that every one of these kids has taken many lives by the time they're 15, in ways that will screw them up mentally, up close & physical, don't make it at all. Go make a Teen Titans movie or something with a tone where you don't have to.
Animorphs, basically, should be suburban Vietnam. With Jake as a teenage guerilla leader, a makeshift Californian Viet-Cong. You can keep the humor and wit and ridiculous scenarios they find themselves in, but if there's a physical confrontation between a grizzly bear and a Hork-Bajir, you'd better damn give us a bloodbath.
And, again, since anything involving 13 year olds will never be granted that type of ratings freedom, it should just be left well alone. We have the books, the books work, don't make sacrifices to churn out an inferior movie.
Never compromise. That quote holds merit.
-
Comprimising is not inherently bad. It allows some people to meet in the middle and work things out for the better good.
Though just rewriting the series to get rid of some plot holes and retcons, fix some things like Visser Three's villain decay, and add some depth to other groups instead of plot insignificant filler, and it would be fresh and new.
-
The series was for kids. Period. To make the movie uber violent and bloody would be flat out stupid. There are literally hundreds of ways that movies have accomplished the the look of war without showing too much violence. Besides, I don't want to go see an Animorphs movie and just see two hours of bloody mayhem.
-
Maybe kids were the targeting audience and the whole advertising campain gave it off as a stupid kid series but the author gets pretty graphic at some points:
"A huge Hork-bajir slashed and cut a bright red line right across my black leather chest. I swung my fist and hit the Hork Bajir hard enough to fold him in two. But another leaped over him and came at me. I blocked his arm but he came at me with his clawed foot. I fell back. I looked down and saw a hole in my stomach. A hole! I could see the gorilla's insides! My insides. My insides!" -Book ten (Applegate 157)
You are under the wrong impression about the "Oh it is just a kid series" View. That's what schoolastic saw it as resulting in a cheesy marketing campain and overtly low budget tv show. Have I made myself clear.
Not uber bloody definatly but you are going to have to face the realities of war action.
-
I am fully aware of the graphic violence in the books, I am more aware of how to show something without showing it. Plus, when you're dealing with Shredders and Dracon Beams you get into the lightsaber-esque effects. Those type of weapons don't make people bleed profusely because they are so hot (Darth Maul anyone?) Another thing to take in effect is that most of the violence is between animals and aliens, which is still gory, but seen differently in the audiences eyes. I think people can tolerate more violence when it isn't human vs. human.
-
The series was for kids. Period. To make the movie uber violent and bloody would be flat out stupid.
The books were "uber-violent and bloody", my friend.
Question: what other "intermediate/young adult" books have you ever read that were half this graphic or politically complex? Dealing in grey areas and moral ambiguity?
That would lead me to believe that, yes, while the core audience was comprised of middle-school readers, Animorphs doesn't fit neatly into that category. When have you ever seen anything else aimed at 13 year olds where kids their own age are killing people with claws and teeth, and stealing bombs from military bases to blow up an enemy installation? Or holding a fork to a guy's ear while promising to kill his parents? Watching a guy turn into a giant predatory monster and bite an alien into little pieces while listening to him scream? Deal with the after-effects of combat, of war, reflecting on how you sent your cousin and brother to their graves?
You can use that "but it's supposed to be for kids!" thing all you want. Truth is, though, 90% of parents who ever actually read these books, screening them for their kid before letting them read it, wouldn't be happy to expose their children to most of this stuff.
The honest truth is, Scholastic marketed this to the middle-school crowd, slapped some pretty & colorful covers on the books, and emphasized the "cool funky animals!" aspect while playing down the "stabbing someone in the face with a railspike claw" angle. So, yes, technically it's a children's series. And I have no problem with children reading these books, they might learn something, as we did. They'll be exposed to something a little more lofty and high-brow than the other crap churned out for people that age. But to lump this in the same category as Goosebumps or Harry Potter, etc, would be a mistake. As dark as HP is becoming, the darkest stuff in Harry Potter doesn't even scratch the surface of book #1, here.
Facts are facts. If you adapt this faithfully, you're not going to get past the first stage of MPAA scrutiny. They wouldn't let kid John Connor in Terminator 2 fire a gun. What makes you think they're going to let you show kids the same age do what they do in the books?
-
The series was for kids. Period. To make the movie uber violent and bloody would be flat out stupid. There are literally hundreds of ways that movies have accomplished the the look of war without showing too much violence. Besides, I don't want to go see an Animorphs movie and just see two hours of bloody mayhem.
I really don't think PG-13 violence would qualify as uber violent and bloody...I'd picture it as showing violence but only flashes of it, so they'd have it in there, but not focus in on it and elaborate a lot on the gore. The movie, as I would imagine it, should be just fine for the fans of the Animorphs. They should understand why the "bloody mayhem" is existent.
-
^What Aloth said.
Does anyone else think they should up the ages a bit of the actors?
Make them start the war at 15 and end at 18, I guess. It might be a little easier to cast: it's easier to get a woman in her 20's play a high-school kid vs a late middle-school kid.
-
I wouldn't mind seeing them a few years older.
-
Problem with that is, it loses its impact.
Everything just holds so much more disturbing weight when it really is "Jake, the Boy General". You get above 15, you may as well be an adult.
-
In war movies violence isn't the important part, the strategy. The morality, and the opposistion are what matter. Violence means nothing if that's all there is, you need to have more. Which is why I don't think the violence needs to be as explicit in the movie as it was in the books. KA needed to be graphic in the books because everything needs to be overly described for the readers. Movies are different, you don't need to graphic to get the point of violence across.
-
You're right. It still needs to be implied that these kids have taken lives, though, and even that will never fly. Won't even be considered. The second you propose to depict minors killing, that's the second you receive a final-straw "N-O."
It's just how the business works.
-
They were taking lives in the TV show, weren't they? Or at least, any Ani fan will assume they're killing enemies. Unless all the animals ever attacked were Humans, instead of what passed for hork-Bajir.
-
I don't think so. You basically just saw a tiger roaring at people and then they ran away. And the Andalites just slapped each other with open hands.
-
Ah, well. We can do better than that, surely.
So who would we use to produce it that we could be sure to push the envelope as far as PG13 would allow? Someone good at getting crap past the radar.
-
Well, I'm positive they could make a very good Animorphs movie and keep it PG-13. It's really not that hard to be violent without showing too much, even an ametuer director knows a million tricks for doing it. Besides, I never got done reading an Animorphs book and thought "wow, that was violent".
-
I have. Though I think I focused mostly on other things besides the battle descriptions. I may have just skipped them like I skipped the morphing descriptions. Which was a big part of why I felt it got dark towards the end, and don't remember much darkness early in the series. Except patches like in book 1 and 10.
-
Ah, well. We can do better than that, surely.
So who would we use to produce it that we could be sure to push the envelope as far as PG13 would allow? Someone good at getting crap past the radar.
You know what? You'd basically need someone who doesn't answer to the system, someone with enough clout to do whatever they want. As of now, there are basically only four guys in the industry who hold that type of power; Spielberg, Lucas, Cameron, and Jackson.
Spielberg tends to not take an interest in violent/realistic action scenes unless it's based in a real-world context, like Ryan. A lot of his stuff implies things, but almost always in that accessible fun summer movie context. And he doesn't seem to have his heart in the "alien invasion" sci-fi scene anymore, saying he prefers to try something different from his earlier work. The alien/interdimensional stuff in Indiana Jones was Lucas's idea, and we know how that turned out.
I won't even go into detail on Lucas. Dude lost his mind a decade ago.
Jackson...meh. He's a great director, but again, he's tied down with directing Tin Tin and producing The Hobbit and a bunch of other sci-fi movies for a long time to come. Plus, he does "epic" really well, something Animorphs doesn't really need a lot of. Giant battles are a no, skirmishes and hit & runs are a yes. Although, one thing I will say for Jackson, he knows how to make action scenes really hit home, the guy's pretty brutal.
Which leaves us with Cameron. He wouldn't be interested, since he's tied down for the next few years with his Avatar and Battle Angel Alita movies, but since this is all hypothetical anyway (I don't want there to be an Animorphs movie, at least not for a good decade or two until it's perhaps visually feasible), he'd be about the only one who'd have the power and perfectionist mentality to make it work. Although, he just about always only works from scripts he's written, adaptations are rarely his thing aside from Battle Angel. Spielberg would perhaps do just as good a job, if he were inclined to not take any creative liberty with it, mix it up to his own ends. A lot of Spielberg's alien stuff is quite kid-friendly and hopeful, I'm not so sure he's deal very well with a covert alien invasion. He's done War Of The Worlds, but his War Of The Worlds sucked majorly.
Spielberg/Jackson/Cameron. Of the three I believe only Jackson would potentially be interested, and he's the one of the three I wouldn't want to direct this, out of personal taste. I'm sure he'd make it cutting-edge and he'd be able to handle the violence, perhaps better than Spielberg and equal to Cameron. But his actual directing style just doesn't really fit. Jackson always goes big in his studio movies, he hasn't done small and low-key since about 1992.
So, Cameron. But Cameron won't consider doing it, at least for another 15 years or so.
-
Whoa whoa whoa . . . slow down now . . . Tin Tin as in the show I got ridiculed for liking as a kid, and Battle Angel Alita as in the comic I got ridiculed for liking as a kid, are both becoming movies by directors who might actually do a good job?
. . . . . . .
. . . . . . .
How the [long long list of very censored words] did I not know about either one of those?! Battle Angel Alita by Cameron would be awesome!
Urm, on topic though, a friendly view of aliens on Spielberg's part, assuming he did do the movie, doesnt really have to extend towards the Yeerks themselves, it could make them seem even worse actually if they played on the Taxxon and Hork-Bajir hosts being victims (instead of mindless drones until you meet one that isn't infested at the moment) and make you feel mildly worse for say the Hork-Bajir that get killed in battle or, if they go with The Invasion, make you feel as bad for the ones who fail to escape as you do for the humans (Rather than "Screw the big dinosaur thing, just let the old man get away!" people might think "No, save the dinosaur thingy too!") which would actually be beneficial to the film.
Also if the film were say The Hork-Bajir Chronicles instead of core Animorphs (hey, this is all theoretical) Jackson's talent for epic battles might actually work out since I always pictured that one being pretty large scale.
-
Everyone has such good points. I don't want an Animorph movie, either. Hollywood wood just bastardize it. It's already been f-ed up a bit, because of the horrendous TV show (transforming toys featuring Marco turning into a beetle?, horrible puppets as Andalites, the gang walking through their school cafeteria looking around suspiciously... uh, no).
My big worry is sitting down to a water-down version of my beloved Animorphs. No gore, no violence, no reality. The whole message from the series basically boils down to "War is hell." Can we show that to kids today? Really?
Also, my big fear is the morphing. I deperately hope we won't see some cheap-looking, deranged version of our favorite scenes in the series. I want to see a quality morph.
I agree with using unknowns to play the roles. By the way, does anyone know the names of any of the kids on the covers? If only we could use them... just not the "newer" kids. I read somewhere that Scholastic decided to toss out the originals because they were "getting too old..." But, um, so were the Animorphs. Duh.
I digress.
You guys, like Aloth, are all so right: Hollywood won't show what needs to be shown.
-
of course you have to use unknowns, otherwise what are your options? miley cyrus as rachel, and the jonas brothers as jake, marco, and ax?
-
of course you have to use unknowns, otherwise what are your options? miley cyrus as Rachel, and the Jonas brothers as Jake, Marco, and ax?
NO SUCH AN ABOMINATION CAN NEVER BE
-
Hahahaha-NO!