Richard's Animorphs Forum
Animorphs Section => Animorphs Forum Classic => Topic started by: Essam 293 on July 02, 2009, 07:40:34 AM
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Just a hypothetical question that got me thinking as I'm reading through The Host at the moment. In both stories, Animorphs and The Host, the parasites enforced themselves into humans in the first wave, but what if in real life that wasn't the case?
What if in our reality, a bunch of aliens came down as Hork-Bajirs or spiders, or any of the other creatures that they had as hosts from other planets, and they told the world up front what they were: parasites that attached into their host's bodies, to experience life as you do? Do you think humans would be more likely to submit themselves to experimenting in this, or would they immediately turn hostile and try to kill/capture them first?
More importantly, what would you do?
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I think some people would be willing but a good part also would just like to trade. Then you would have some people who completely disagree and do something dumb. Tho i think most would refuse but like stay friends
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This sounds like the thread asking whether or not you'd be voluntary. Except that in this case, the Yeerks aren't at war with us. Previously, I said that under some curcumstances, I would be voluntary.
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I think a lot of people would still be against it, but you'd also get a lot of people who would become voluntary. Think of all the desperate methods some people use to free captive animals or improve their quality of life. Yeerks would just be seen as sentient beings who have the right to experience life as we do.
In the end, it would most likely come down to how the Yeerks were portrayed in the media. Even though most of us know for a fact that the media is always biased, we still tend to listen to what the news reports tell us. If most of the media is saying that Yeerks are peaceful, the odds are that the majority of people will believe it.
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90 percent of the world would not be willing to let them take over anyone. The ten percent would consist of scientists wanting to experience what it's like under somewhat controlled conditions.
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90 percent of the world would not be willing to let them take over anyone. The ten percent would consist of scientists wanting to experience what it's like under somewhat controlled conditions.
Something like this.
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I doubt that. There are a lot of people willing to become controllers in the books, if it means a better life. As long as they're well treated, I don't see a problem.
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I think there would be many more voluntary controllers. It would be a more mutual agreement, so the host and the yeerk would get along better in nearly all cases. Also, when the yeerks had to go to the pool, the host could be asked about their experience to be certain that there were no adverse affects and the like.
And, as seen in the books, most of the voluntary controllers had something horrible in their past. So the yeerks would be like a kind of therapy in some cases, I'm sure.
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I know it would be a great way of handling criminals? Jails and prisons? That was so yesterday. Now we've hired Yeerks to control them to help make them useful. Of course there's a risk that some Yeerks wouldn't be trustworthy, but that's true for every species.
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I think it would be a much more effective means of gaining hosts on the Yeerk's (or soul's) part. Of course I also think it would bring up all sorts of moral issues. I can see a Supreme Court case debating free will or something, lol.
Also, Truth, The Host is a great book. :) I enjoyed it quite a bit.
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I think most people are too selfish to give up their lives. I would be.
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I can see the advertisement pitch right now.
"Hey there, independent human! Would you be willing to let a mind-controlling slug into your head? In exchange for... um... awesome technology? Laser cannons? A sense of belonging to something big?"
It's not like it hasn't been done before, of course - the Tok'ra in Stargate SG-1 are basically Goa'uld who only take voluntary hosts and share control of the body with the host, and they seem to keep up a sizable membership. I guess if they technically weren't war mongering, it wouldn't be that bad, but free will is kind of a big deal with humans.
Would it be some kind of deal like with the Taxxons? Would planet Earth gain the support of some huge alien empire in exchange for their free will? I suppose it entails protection from other warlike alien empires, and their overall health might improve with the advanced tech. From my understanding, it seemed that some non-Controller Taxxons "loyal" to the Taxxon regime enjoyed some level of support from the Yeerks (e.g. Elfangor being fed to the "loyal Taxxons" in The Andalite Chronicles, Esplin 9466 mentioning how they hand over rebel Taxxons to the Taxxon authorities to be "interrogated" as part of the deal, etc). I infer from the narrative that the Taxxon planet is controlled (either partially or wholly) by free Taxxons who supply the Yeerks with voluntary hosts in exchange for support from the empire. Earth could enter into a similar agreement with the Yeerks.
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I can see us making some sort of agreement with them. People who have really ****ty lives, the homeless, etc, would probably jump on the chance. The Yeerks could easily be like, "Oh, you're homeless and hungry? Well, if you let us infest you, we'll give you food and shelter."
Actually... That would totally help the homeless problem, now, wouldn't it?
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Ugh I'm sorry. The books made me feel sick when they would have voluntary hosts. I can't imagine giving up my life. Would the yeerk love my family like I do? I couldn't watch. It makes me wanna throw up personally.
If my best friend became a voluntary host I couldn't be friends with him anymore.
Maybe its just me?
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I value my own free will too much to become voluntary. It's that simple. I don't care if I was homeless; even you are oppressed by your environment, you can always retreat to your own mind with your own free thoughts, without someone staring in at them, or forcing you to go against your beliefs. I would never give that up. It doesn't matter how bad your life is now compared to how great it could be as a controller; if you aren't living that 'better' life yourself, the point becomes moot.
What I might do, if it were possible, would allow them to be an observer; to somehow inhibit their ability for complete control. They could watch watch I do, experience the senses, but they would not have any power over my body. I could temporarily allow them physical control, but I could instantly return control to myself at any point. Also, I would want the ability to shut them out completely; put them in darkness, so to speak, if I was doing something I would want privacy for. After all, if they had full control as a Yeerk like in the books, the converse is exactly true, aside from the ability to shut them out. Still, even with all those limitations on the Yeerk's power, I would still be incredibly reluctant to allow it into my head.
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Yeah, it's like considering whether you'd be voluntary host or not. There wuld be much more voluntary host.
But i wuldn't be that kinda people
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I think most people are too selfish to give up their lives. I would be.
It's not selfishness...it's a right you're born with:- Free will to do what you please with your body and your mind. It's simply not natural to give up your life, along with that free will, for a stranger/creature of whom you don't know much about at all.
If yeerks made themselves known to all of the world at the same time, I think it would play out pretty much as I stated it before. I do think some of you have good points as to how they could convince us to let them control our minds. But still...I think that after that experience, one would NEVER want to go back to that state of helplessness.
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Now you're assuming that a voluntary controller would be under total control all the time the Yeerk is in there. If there's no resistance, or intent to harm, I don't see why the Yeerk would need to take complete control for 72 hours. Especially since there wouldn't be any cages. Nothing forcing a host back to the pool. If the host didn't feel like it, s/he could just leave.
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Well, there would most definitely be conflict between a yeerk and human. There would definitely be a dispute between the two. I doubt that yeerks would be willing to share a mind with someone else, just switching it up. I think they would do what they want to do, no matter what the humans agree to. No matter what, there would be dire consequences for everyone. At least, no human would prevail.
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Then the Yeerk would lose the host. Simple as that. Of course there may be some yeerks that would want to anyway, but they would be treated just like anyone committing a crime. Human or Yeerk. There are voluntary controllers in the books. So there must be a legitimate reason for the hosts and Yeerks getting along.
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In most cases, though, the "justification" for voluntary Controllers was either that the host was willing to sell out the human race for power, or that they knew they couldn't fight and just gave in out of meekness. Humans probably don't know what they're getting into when they take a Yeerk. From what I recall in MM4 the spiel was something like "Let this thing into your head and you become a part of something big, you gain great understanding, you become important" and all the other Sharing bullcrap. The non-voluntaries would be the ones who (wisely) realize that they get the losing end of the deal; the voluntaries would be the ones who want to continue to enjoy the "benefits" of being a Sharing member or want the "importance" it conveys, or who know they have no choice and submit to it anyway. I don't think any sane person would agree to become a pawn in a world domination scheme, not even that selfish celebrity in the crocodile burping book.
I always did find it weird that the voluntaries are just lounging around watching television at the Yeerk pool; I would have thought the Yeerks would treat them like any other host. Perhaps giving them these "luxuries" pacifies them and makes them easier to control? About "nothing forcing them back into the pool" - maybe they do it out of fear? Maybe they're afraid to walk out because they think a Hork-Bajir will get them and force them back into the pool? I also wonder, did Chapman get the voluntary Controller privileges too? He fiercely resisted his Yeerk. There's no reason to believe he'd sit around patiently waiting for the parasite to retake his mind.
Perhaps some human-Yeerk friendships did form, but for the most part the Yeerks believed humanity was an inferior race (This isn't to say "all Yeerks are inherently evil," it's a product of their upbringing as part of an evil empire). There are the outliers, of course. Even if being a voluntary meant greater synergy between Yeerk and host, there weren't that many voluntaries in The Sharing anyway; Visser Three remarks in MM4 that "in the end, we have to use force." However, Chapman (ironically) notes that voluntaries are easier to control.
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Do you think humans would be more likely to submit themselves to experimenting in this?
actually, yes.
i've thought about it, i think a lot of people would submit themselves (either out of pity or curiosity).
(a peaceful approach would net more voluntary hosts, possibly commensalism/mutualism?)
If there's no resistance, or intent to harm, I don't see why the Yeerk would need to take complete control for 72 hours. Especially since there wouldn't be any cages. Nothing forcing a host back to the pool. If the host didn't feel like it, s/he could just leave.
i think a lot of people would agree to let the yeerks observe, as think suggested.
let them live their normal lives and help another sentient being out.
convicts could be taken (as opposed to life in prison/death).
not to say the yeerks should be trusted. ;)
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I would feed all known controllers oatmeal
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I think that if they were upfront, sincerely wanted peace and were willing to be contributing members of society that it could work. They couldn't get away with forcing someone to do stuff against their will as they have to come out every three days and if the host reports miss use then the Yeerk just wouldn't get another one
There are a couple of jobs I could think of that the yeerks would be good at and be able to contribute to society. Like someone mentioned before with prisoners. I just read an interesting fanfic the other day about yeerks employed by the prison system. Prisoners were aloud a pass to leave the prison and the yeerks job was to take control of the prisoner if they tried to commit a crime or run away.
Another job the Yeerks could be employed as and have temporary hosts is in the rehab or fitness areas. I need to exercise more but don't have the will power to do so. So a person could go to the fitness place and rent a Yeerk and the Yeerk takes over and does the exercise for the person. and talk about a reliable way to quit an addiction, the Yeerk gets to observe life through the hosts eyes and is aloud to take over if the person tries to give in to what ever their addicted to.
They could also be employed as companions. There are alot of lonely people out there. Are you lonely? need someone to talk to? think about having your very own yeerk companion. They could also be teachers, want to learn how to dance what better way to learn then from someone who could actually help you do the dance steps correctly... want to go to a foreign country but can't speak the languages, not to worry, hire a yeerk translator... LOL there are lots of possibilities.
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yeerks would also be good for operations. (see #29)
maybe they could help people with amnesia or brain disorders?
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Yes, there are indeed fantastic possibilities... but it relies on the good will of the Yeerk. I don't rely on the good will of other humans, let alone an alien species with an unknown agenda.
The possibilities would be brighter if there was a way to limit the Yeerk's control. Even if there appeared to be a limit, for all we (as humans) know, they could be feigning that limitation, and could all at once claim total control when the majority of the human population has Yeerks.
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Well bare in mind that the Yeerks didn't actually need all of us they intended to breed like mad just to fill all our heads. I believe they may have needed a few hundreds of thousands, they hoped for a couple million but billions were more than they could really handle. To them were as six billion dollars would be to most anyone else, sure we'd like to have that much money, our imaginations go to work right away thinking of all we can do with that much money, but over a lifetime most sensible people wouldn't need six billion dollars, probably wouldn't be able to spend six billion dollars without making ridiculous purchases, but still offer almost anyone on this board alone six billion dollars in a totally legal (or maybe even illegal) way and you'd hear a lot of cries of "yes please!"
If the Yeerks came to say, the governments of the world and made a peaceful offer of exchange, Yeerk (and by extension Andalite) technology in exchange for human hosts the governments could give them prison inmates who've been sentenced to life (thus they no longer cost the government anything, families could communicate with any who survive the Yeerk v Andalite war via holograms and never know it if we wanted to get fancy, or just be told they're in solitary confinement if we dont) and the Yeerks could give us simple technology, like drop shafts and such which would be slowly intorduced to the public so no one knew there was any secret alien conspiracy.
Now there are a lot of people in prison in America but probably not enough for the Yeerks, but if every country all over the world complied to this in addition to say, networks like The Sharing which recruit voluntary hosts outside the prisons the Yeerks could have done exactly what they wanted, which is have a host which exists in mass numbers, reproduces quickly, comes willingly (or you know, gives its own kind over willingly) and it wouldn't cost them a single Hork-Bajir, just the blueprints for some minor technology and maybe, just to make us feel like we're some sort of badasses, a very low power dracon weapon, strong enough to kill a human or shred a tank but too weak to harm say, a bug fighter.
In this way the Yeerks could keep us happy while gaining the hosts they need to fight the Andalites and it would cost them virtually nothing, and we'd still be powerless to resist them because in addition to not knowing how many voluntary hosts are roaming around from The Sharing, even with the government knowing about the Yeerks they'd very likely keep it secret from the rest of their respecitve countries. Even if the Yeerk presence was known and publicized (which might even be better for the Yeerks because with the right spin so very many people would go voluntarily) the government wouldn't try to start something and unless the Yeerks made the first move any country that wages war on the Yeerks themselves would be quickly condemned by the rest of the world just out of fear of Yeerk retaliation against mankind in general.
I'm not sure how it is in most other countries but in US alone how many politicians would be quick to say "We are so sorry to hear about how the (oh let's just say) French fired on your bug fighters when you tried to build a new Yeerk Pool in Paris, but we would never do that, we just want you to know that not all humans are French, you have nothing to fear from the rest of the world."
And of course the Yeerks would laugh themselves silly over our use of the word "fear".
All in all I think that being public at least to a degree would have benefited the Yeerks so much more than subtle infiltration and the only reason I feel they went down the subtle infiltration road was indeed because Visser One wanted it that way for her own personal reasons.
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I think that would have been quite effective, JFalcon. I wonder how the animorphs would be able to handle something like that? How would things be different? And when the Andalites come to "quarantine" Earth, they would be seen as the invaders/bad guys.
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If would be effective, yes, but is it morally sound?
Voluntary hosts are one thing; if a person wants to give up their free will, that's their decision. But to make that decision for other people against their will? That's just as bad as taking involuntary hosts from the start. It doesn't matter if they are inmates, or even if they have the death sentence. Giving up all free will is worse, and more enclosing than any prison cell, and was not included in their sentence.
Still, that's good logic. Although undesirable, that decision would prevent an all out war or invasion by the Yeerks, which they would surely win. The big issue would be secrecy though; if the general public or the media found out, it would be game over.
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The law has already taken away all freedom from the prisoners. Even the ability to end their own lives. So what's the difference if Yeerks use them as hosts? It's not like they'll be useful to anyone else, assuming we're talking about people put away for life, or given the death sentence.
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I would feed all known controllers oatmeal
I remember there was a particular flavor for the oatmeal....anyone remember what it was?
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Maple ad ginger I googled "what flavor oatmeal kills yeerks lol"
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INSTANT maple and ginger oatmeal. :P
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we could cut a deal or something:
Allegory:
Yeerks=America/Spain
Andalites=British
Humans=Africa.
we could fight our crazy tribal wars with each other, the loser gets captured and sold to the yeerks for the equivalent of glass beads/AIDS vaccine/new ways to kill people etc. Then the Andalites would try and police this trade and save the human race from selling itself into slavery and colonise our planet the way the brits did to africa a veritable male Andalites burden.
Or we could sell the Yeerks our mentally ill, retards who are still physically fit, criminals and welfare dependents and thus avoid turning into idiocracy.
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Just a hypothetical question that got me thinking as I'm reading through The Host at the moment. In both stories, Animorphs and The Host, the parasites enforced themselves into humans in the first wave, but what if in real life that wasn't the case?
What if in our reality, a bunch of aliens came down as Hork-Bajirs or spiders, or any of the other creatures that they had as hosts from other planets, and they told the world up front what they were: parasites that attached into their host's bodies, to experience life as you do? Do you think humans would be more likely to submit themselves to experimenting in this, or would they immediately turn hostile and try to kill/capture them first?
More importantly, what would you do?
I wonder if Seerow would have been willing to serve as a host if the Yeerks had asked him politely.