Richard's Animorphs Forum
Animorphs Section => Animorphs Forum Classic => Topic started by: rocklobster on June 18, 2009, 08:06:13 AM
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One of my main problems with the Ellimist is that he almost seems similar to Aslan in the Chronicles of Narnia, a character who represents God. I know the Ellimist isn't really supposed to be a god, but he certainly has god-level powers. He's always talked about as if he could obliterate the entire universe if he wanted to. So I was wondering if you people think he was created to criticize Christianity. I'm kind of on the fence with this opinion.
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I think the Ellimist/Crayak thing is obviously meant to symbolise the fight between good and evil, God and Satan. However, I don't think it's meant to be a criticism and I certainly don't see it that way. I actually really like the way it was done. It makes me think that maybe that maybe there is a compassionate God out there who wants to help us, but for reasons beyond our understanding he simply can't.
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i always thought of the Ellimist as the Deux Ex Mechina that Applegate put up simply do shuttle the characters around.
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I like the Ellimist.The Ellimist book was one of my favorites. I like who and what he is, and I like hoe he thinks. I also like his little games. I think they are a little messed up, yea, but I kind of trust the guy
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What Mike said.
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Which one of them is Mike? Use the psuedonym, not the real name.
I could see the Ellemist being a Deus Ex Machina. The Ellemist and Crayak are probably the closest thing to black and white good versus evil in the series.
As far as God being a guy that has the power to change things, but for some reason can't, I'm not sure. Seeing how he's supposed to be so much more powerful than Satan. If they were equal, then I could see how God's hands could be tied. But with God, it's like he lets us do our own thing, but still punishes us if we don't worship him. If I was God, not only would I let it be undebatably known my existance, but those who worship me would definitely get priviledges. Those that don't would not be punished for eternity, no matter what they did in there several decade long lifespans.
But that's just me. That's why I'm not a Christian anymore.
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Thanks Jess (and just so Chad knows, yes I am Mike, lol)
I can't say I blame you Chad, even if I don't completely agree with you. I guess some people would say that faith is pointless if you know your God is real, because faith is about believing in something despite the lack of proof. I would go on but I don't want to turn this into a religious debate, as they never end well and I don't like seeing people argue over a subject that's supposed to encourage peace.
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I never really saw the Ellimist as "God." Sure, he's a symbol of good (like Crayak is a symbol of evil) but I never read anything religious into either character.
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OP needs to be a little more detailed. You think the Ellimist is meant to criticize God...how?
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there's plenty of other gods it could be modeled after.
don't jump right to christianity.
but it's not criticizing anything.
just a typical good vs. evil, god vs. satan battle.
please explain your reasoning.
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It's stated quite often that the Ellimist is weaker than Crayak. Isn't good supposed to be stronger than evil?
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Depends on which side of the sliding scale of idealism and cynicism something happens to be on.
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It's stated quite often that the Ellimist is weaker than Crayak.
I don't believe so, otherwise Crayak would have wiped him out instead of playing the "game."
It's stated quite often that the Ellimist is weaker than Crayak. Isn't good supposed to be stronger than evil?
That's usually how it happens in books and movies, but not always I suppose. After all, not every story has a happy ending. In reality, many people would claim that statement was false because of all the bad things in the world, but maybe it depends on how you interpret it. After all, doing the right thing is often much harder than doing something selfish. By that logic, good is "stronger" than evil.
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I think in the Ellimist Chronicles it's stated at the end that Ellimist and Crayak are equal in power, neither would survive if it came to a fight between the two of them, that's why they play the game (Yay for the pawns!)
But I don't see how they're meant to criticize religion or even necessarily represent it, religions generally lay down rules for you to live by that would be of some benefit to you in this life or the next, the Ellimist doesnt have rules for others to follow but rather has rules for himself and Crayak to follow, and he doesn't seem super concerned with the next life, he's concerned with making sure that the current life goes on for as long as it can for sentient beings everywhere so he can sit back and watch life iteself do its thing like an old man sitting at a pond watching ducks.
And Crayak wants to destroy all life because . . . well, pretty much because he's mean and that's about as much explanation as we get. I guess he's the slightly older man throwing rocks at the ducks becaus they're making too much noise or something, so Ellimist says "calm down, let's play a game of chess or something." and Crayak says "Checkers or I throw more rocks!" and Ellimist says "Okay, okay, checkers, but with chess pieces."
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Which one of them is Mike? Use the psuedonym, not the real name.
A lot of people call people by names, and not screennames.I call people by what I call them when I speak to them. I call him Mike, I'm not going to change that for you. I'd appreciate you not ordering me around. Kthanks.
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I was only half serious. Sorry if I was offensive.
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PM'd you, Chad.
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I've got no new messages past the response to the Screwed Up PM. Try again?
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Which one of them is Mike? Use the psuedonym, not the real name.
A lot of people call people by names, and not screennames.I call people by what I call them when I speak to them. I call him Mike, I'm not going to change that for you. I'd appreciate you not ordering me around. Kthanks.
he wasn't being completely serious, jess.
anyways, it's confusing for a lot of people.
mike is phoenix.
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Goom, I took care of it. No need to step in. :)
(sorry, that came out wrong the first time.)
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Goom, I took care of it. There was no need for you to step in.
okay, back on subject.
It's stated quite often that the Ellimist is weaker than Crayak. Isn't good supposed to be stronger than evil?
i always found them about equivalent in power, crayak being (possibly) slightly stronger.
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This is an interesting topic. Never really thought of it before now since no one ever worshipped the Ellimist or Crayak, at least not to my knowledge. I haven't yet read the Ellimist Chronicles, or even all the Animorphs books (SHAME ON ME, I know...). I do see the correlation between Ellimist and God (whatever they may be to you), Crayak and Satan. In the Bible, God and Lucifer have played at least one game that I know of, and it's in the book of Job, if I remember correctly. For those who may not know of the story, Satan bets God that if he took away Job's belongings, friends, and family, Job would rebuke God and swear him off. Of course, Job is remains faithful and prays to God, so God wins, per usual. And I'd say Job loses, but that's just my opinion.
It's a messed up game they play, just as the Ellimist and Crayak do.
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It's stated quite often that the Ellimist is weaker than Crayak. Isn't good supposed to be stronger than evil?
Whether or not that is true, good and evil being reasonably objective as the are, if it is taken that good is stronger than evil, than that makes for a VERY boring story.
Bring it down to yeerk v. animorph, if the animorphs, our good guys had had the upper hand the whole time, thing would be much shorter and much duller.
You want to root for the good guy, and the underdog, there in the good guy should be disadvantaged for the most part. Makes the victory much more impressive.
As for the topic head, I say no. I don't take the Ellimist as a religious thing in any sense, including Christianity
He's a plot device used to varying effectiveness. Applegate rarley seemed to criticize anyone, something I liked about these books
Though she did seem to have it in for the Boy Scouts at times :P
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I agree that she's not wanting to criticize Christianity, or any religion. If anything, she's merely comparing God and Satan with the Ellimist and Crayak. That's all.
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Unless it is Zoroastrian: In their religion (plus the gnosts and the Mandaeans) God and the Devil are engaged in perpetual struggle and are equal in power.
Although this is not necessarily criticism of any particular religion you could view the Ellimist as representing the 'trickster' archetype.
Ax specifically refers to the Ellimist as a trickster god in book 6.
Until the Ellimist came to the Andalites they used sign language, he gave them thoughtspeak and all Andalites that use thoughtspeak (presumably all Andalites) are his descendents...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trickster_god
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culture_hero
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythical_origins_of_language
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_myth