Richard's Animorphs Forum
Animorphs Section => Animorphs Forum Classic => Topic started by: Brad the Brit on April 12, 2009, 03:42:01 PM
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Ok if a Hork-Bajir and an Andalite fought one-on-one with no weapons who would win......?
I mean andalites have tail blades but the Hork's have blades all over their body's. So it would be interesting to see who would win.
I think the Hork-Bajir would win personally.
But what do you think???
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I would go with Andalite because, well. Elfangor and Ax alone are shown too have cut up more than one, even if out numbered.
I mean, it's not a guarantee, but nine times out of ten the Andalite wins.
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yer but thats because they have been trained to fight.... i mean if an untrained andalite fought a untrained Hork-Bajir i think the Hork-Bajir would win
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depends on how much training the other has
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Andalites have speed, and the ability to look in three directions at once. Horks have strength, and more than one blade to attack with. I think out in an open field, and Andalite would have a natural advantage. In a closed in space, the Hork would have an advantage. Even if they can strike quickly, and andalite would still be hard pressed to hit two arm blades and one or two knee blades to keep at least one of them from connecting.
Though I think a big reason why a Hork has an advantage up close is because Andalite arms are typically weak. If an andalite was strong enough to block and grab a Hork's are with his hands, and strike with his tail, and I'd say the Andalite had an overall advantage in both situations. If they were all like Gafinilan, then most well trained Andalites should be able to take on most Horks in unarmed combat. Since they can't use their arms to block or deflect, it remains a weakness.
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Hork-Bajir are tough, nobody is denying that, but average Andalite beats average Hork-Bajir any day. Andalites (eg. Ax and Elfangor) have taken down plenty of Hork-Bajir by themselves and have the advantage of a long reaching tail. Hork-Bajir have to be up close to do damage.
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I think, with no experiance, Andalite. HB's are to peaceful.
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I think, with no experiance, Andalite. HB's are to peaceful.
Exactly. Before the Yeerks came they were the ultimate pacifists. Andalites are peaceful by nature, but the fact that they naturally evolved a tail blade makes it obvious that they have an instinct to defend themselves.
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I don't think it matters how peaceful they are. Though I suppose neither would attack agressively, if they did get into a fight.
I think we're supposed to picture a certain Andalite and Hork that are angry enough to fight each other. Regardless of how their species would normally act.
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Either way, Andalites have a natural instinct to fight if threatened. As artificially engineered creatures, Hork-Bajirs don't have that instinct.
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andalite, hands down.
horks wouldn't fight normally.
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I would go with Andalite because, well. Elfangor and Ax alone are shown too have cut up more than one, even if out numbered.
I mean, it's not a guarantee, but nine times out of ten the Andalite wins.
I think andalite would win because remember andalites can morph
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No morphing ability. Just plain old Andalite body versus Hork body.
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I think it's mentioned somewhere that a trained Andalite fighter can go one on three with Hork-Bajir and usually win. If that's the case, then it seems to stand to reason that one on one an untrained Andalite could still prevail. I agree with one of the previous posts, though. Environment plays a big role. Fighting on an open hillside and fighting in a forest are two very different things and each one gives a different species its advantage. If you just put them in a room and told them to fight, the Andalite would probably still have the advantage as long as the room was large enough.
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Yes Elfangor and Ax usually win one on one but I look at it this way: Apart from Elfangor being some kind of tail fighting prodigy both Elfangor and Ax were not just well trained, they were main characters.
Hork-Bajir aren't pushovers, and even if we say they're untrained it would still be a yeerk in the Hork-Bajir's head otherwise neither has any incentive to fight the other, so say we've got a good old fashion Andalite space cadet and a Hork-Bajir grunt, well Joe Andalite in the trenches meets Billy Hork-Bajir it's far less one sided than if Elfangor picks a fight with him.
Bare in mind in TAC Alloran, Arbron and Elfangor are all trained, Alloran's a veteran in fact, and still they nearly die fighting a group of Hork-Bajir on that transport ship, a group which honestly does not outnumber them by very much, certainly not by this boasted three to one ratio which I don't buy as anything more than Andalite propaganda (don't get me wrong I do recall it being in the books, I have a very strong sense that it was Ax saying it though, we know how unbiased his opinions are) Indeed it may have been because it was too confined a space. Elfangor metnions that he saves Alloran from getting flanked, Arbron states that Elfangor saved his life so you can't just say that any old Andalite could defeat a hork-bajir let alone trust that any trained Andalite could defeat three singlehanded when clearly there are times when that reach and speed aren't enough. Did the Hork-Bajir on the transport have experience fighting? Probably but how do you think they got it? By killing Andalites. Were they elite soldiers? Unlikely. Even if by some miracle they were, were they would be moreso than Alloran who nearly got his own butt kicked and still be serving on a transport so unimportant that the future Visser Three would have let it get blown to bits? Even more unlikely. So essentially to me at least the three to one ratio is little more than idealistic propaganda generated by Andalite drill instructors so their cadets don't freak out at the first sign of battle.
So obviously I take issue with the nine times out of ten ratio as well, it's far too one sided to be likely, remember the Hork-Bajir have been fighting the Andalites on the ground and in space as the Yeerk's number one shock trooper, if they were that ineffective the war would have ended before it ever reached earth, and remember the Hork-Bajir aren't slow, they're stated many times as being very fast themselves, and they have more endurance, they can take a lot more damage than the Andalites can.
So lets say you've got one Hork-Bajir, and one Andalite, if they're untrained but forced to fight to be honest I see it being advantage Andalite, but milder than 3 to 1, I would buy that in a one on one fight with none of the Andalite training Andalites would win against Hork-Bajir 60-65% of the time, it's more than half but by no means a sure thing. Mind you Hork-Bajir aren't just strong and well equipped, and they can take a beating. After the carnage of a battle with the Animoprhs it's often said that some of the Hork-Bajir they fought aren't dead, just unconcious, Andalites seem fragile by comparison, the worst we've seen Ax suffer is losing his arm and we didn't get to see how he reacted while it was cut off, maybe he went unconcious, maybe he grabbed it with his other arm and started beating the Hork-Bajir with it, we don't know, but I've never read anything that implies that Andalites could wrestle with a grizzly and still be breathng afterwards.
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Off hand, I would have to give this one to the Andalite. Depending on tail length, they can cut you from a distance. Hork-Bajir seem to be like close range fighters. And yeah, those tails are really fast and they have the multiple eye advantage also.
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andalite, hands down.
horks wouldn't fight normally.
but do they do catch on pretty quick.
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something else too consider, how the yeerk/host interaction effects the reflexes.
if the hork-bajir fight the yeerks for control during a fight then it is entirely possible that even a untrained andalite could win a 3 v 1. since the yeerks would be fighting the host, the andalite, and finding the proper comands for the body at the same time.
this could be why the yeerks were looking for willing hosts or braking their will, no fighting for control means that yeerk was only fighting the andalite or the yeerk was helping the host fight an andalite making it much harder for a deceptive move too work.
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Fighting on an open hillside and fighting in a forest are two very different things and each one gives a different species its advantage. If you just put them in a room and told them to fight, the Andalite would probably still have the advantage as long as the room was large enough.
Yes but remember Horks are like 7foot giants in the forest they would be just as screwed as an Andalite as there would be branches and more leaves and stuff for the hork to contend with plus an Andalite slashing at his legs.
However i personally believe that a Hork-Bajir would win, its got multiple blades and as previously stated can take a beating, so when the Hork gets close enough put a few slashes into the Andalite chest, and if you can get ever closer, close enough for the Andalite to say goodbye to his tail - with regards to a Hork blade then the Andalite is weaponless and then the Hork-Bajir can have his way with the Andalite
ALTHOUGH! could an Andalite tail slash through a Hork's Blade?? if so then i believe the fight would lean in favour towards the Andalite
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something else too consider, how the yeerk/host interaction effects the reflexes.
if the hork-bajir fight the yeerks for control during a fight then it is entirely possible that even a untrained andalite could win a 3 v 1. since the yeerks would be fighting the host, the andalite, and finding the proper comands for the body at the same time.
I'll grant you that in some cases a Hork-Bajir might screw the Yeerk over in a fight, but how many Hork-Bajir would know to do that at just the right time, how many are suicidal, and how many would actually want those Andalites, who screwed them over almost as badly as the yeerks did, to win the fight? Add to that the fact that a Yeerk knows what the Hork-Bajir is thinking right as it thinks it the Hork-Bajir would pretty much have to surprise even itself and I think that'd be hard.
But since we're talking totally untrained Hork-Bajir controllers and Andalites, I'll grant that a Yeerk probably wouldn't be able to stop it even if it saw it coming, so good point. It might be sort of a "Huh, he wants to shut his eyes so I can't see the Andalite's blade coming . . . how do I stop him from doing that aga-UGH darn it..."
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I agree with Falcon as far as the host's intervention is concerned.
As far as a fight between equally skilled warriors? I'd say it depends on terrain and area. In a close quarters duel, the Hork-Bajir is likely to win because the tail's extra reach would be of little advantage, and the stalk eyes would not help much when everyone is cramped and the locations are clear.
In open spaces, I'd go with the Andalite. The Hork-Bajir simply can't surprise the Andalite because it can see everywhere, and the long reach of the tail can be used to hit the Hork-Bajir before it gets close enough to attack. The tail can also be freely moved and spun around to distract and deter the enemy.
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It would be unfair for an Andalite to fight in the tree tops, which is the Hork-Bajir's natural element, and it would be unfair to the Hork-Bajir to fight in a wide open plain, which is the Andalite's element.
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Here's what I think:
Equally trained Hork-Bajir Male vs. Equally trained Andalite male... the Andalite. Assuming that each one is about average in strength/reach. Keep in mind that Andalites may have better training.
Untrained Andalite male vs. trained Hork-Bajir male... Hork-Bajir.
Female Andalite vs. female Hork-Bajir... the female Hork-Bajir. Female Andalites have a much smaller tail blade, whereas female Hork-Bajir are less different than the males, although the males have an extra horn, and presumably larger size.
Another possibility is that, if the fight doesn't end soon, the Hork-Bajir may recover really quickly and be able to keep fighting; it took only seconds for Jara Hamee to heal that wound he made in his brain which was deep enough to expose his brain, and he recovered very quickly. There was no mention of an Andalite being able to do that, and no reason to assume that they can.
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Interesting. I'd go with Andalite. Must be the countless times I've heard about Ax + multiple Horks, and his slashing away at ease.
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Well... the Animorphs (including Ax) can take advantage of what is called the "stormtrooper effect", in which named characters have an advantage over unnamed ones in combat. Back during the Andalite Chronicles, Esplin 9466 uses a Hork-Bajir host to defeat Aldrea (in her natural Andalite form) in just one back-handed blow, after blocking her tail blade with his own.
That, and Ax was very well-trained for his age, I'm sure.
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these blast points...only imperial hork-bajir are so precise.
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I want to say Hork-Bajir cause andalites can be so damn ****y
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these blast points...only imperial hork-bajir are so precise.
This made me laugh out loud, everyone stared at me, I had to explain why I was still reasonably sane for laughing at a line nobody else around me understood :P
To make this post relevant to the topic if the Andalite removes a blade from the Hork-bajir the Hork-Bajir has many many more, but once the Andalite's tail is removed he's defenseless.
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does anyone take age into account? When Ax fought with Visser 3 in book 8, he claimed that Allorn had a natural advantage from being older, and with more tail reach.
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I don't wanna even think of a Hork Bajir fighting against a tail-less Andalite. I think the Andalite would be pureed.
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man, for the life of me i cant remember their name.
the hork bajir with the blue bands around their arms, the elite gaurd kinda guys
imagine them agianst an andalite
the fight would be more evenly matched, might even be to close to call
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I think it depends on who is the faster. I can't remember reading that the Horks are as quick as the andalite tail.
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man, for the life of me i cant remember their name.
the hork bajir with the blue bands around their arms, the elite gaurd kinda guys
imagine them agianst an andalite
the fight would be more evenly matched, might even be to close to call
Actually, I think they're just called blue bands. Bigger Horks with longer blades.
I still think they both have their advantages and disadvantages.
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Andalites have a big advantage. I mean, I was brought down by a hork last night . But ill kick his ass today.. Lol
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Yeah, if he's asleep :P
Anyway as for age being a factor I don't think many teenage Andalites were fighting the Yeerks, Ax said it was illegal by the laws and customs of his people for him to fight, that the Animorphs fought shocked him. Arbron and Elfangor were pretty much given field promotions by Alloran (who probably had the authority anyway) because there was no other option.
As for average teen Hork vs average teen Andalite, I think the Andalites have the disadvantage there in the long run, Ax is stated by KA as being close to the Animorphs in age, Toby on the other hand was if not fully grown then close to it by the end of the series, she was at best nearly three years old then, faster growing shock troops might account for the Yeerks not losing the war until we--uh they lost Anati and Earth, though it doesnt explain why, if the Hork-Bajir were so quick to grow up, the Yeerks weren't just mass breeding them. Ket had Toby pretty quickly, so it isn't like it takes them twenty years to give birth, however long Ket was pregnant with Toby just adds to how rapidly Toby was battle ready once she was born, though I'm willing to buy that Hork-Bajir might not be unlike Disney's Gargoyles, (who have only one child every ten years or so for evolutionary reasons I'm not fan enough to understand) it could be something bred in by their creators to keep their numbers in check.
So yeah, I can see rapidly growing Hork-Bajir quickly filling the ranks if Andalites win most of the time in melee combat, I also see close quarters battles happening far less often than depicted in Animorphs since on average an Andalite and a Hork-Bajir would just shoot each other, but I just don't see the Hork-Bajir being shock troops at all if they, in addition to being outnumbered by the Andalites, require large numbers just to win fights, the yeerks would have just used the Taxxons instead, they can wield dracon beams and exist in larger numbers, they just get crazy around blood is all and that's a bonus on the battlefield, seeing your buddies eaten alive or at least eaten while mostly alive would spook the crap out of any soldier, human or Andalite. >:D
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*has read the whole thread*
Honestly, it depends on the situation, IMO. Though, I have read that Andalites have three (or is it four?) hearts and two lungs. And, where those hearts are remains a mystery, I think; they are probably in the lower part of the body. This gives them greater speed and vitality.
And yes, an Andalite tailblade can cut through a Hork-Bajir blade. It happened in the Hork-Bajir Chronicles, I recall.
And wasn't it stated somewhere that Hork-Bajir, a Class Three race, do not reproduce quickly? Though, indeed, they mature faster, as well; could this be a KASU, or was it meant to be as it is?
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Not sure why they say that Hork-Bajir multiply slowly; Ket gave birth to Toby, and before the series ended, she had another child... a son who was briefly mentioned in book # 47, I think... And since the series took place over only 3 years... Ket must have been able to get pregnant and give birth in less than that time... possibly twice.
Maybe they multiply slowly when controlled by Yeerks? Or multiply slowly when compared to Yeerks? Or maybe they can only multiply during a mating season in which, if the male does not impregnate the female during that time, they cannot multiply during that year... so maybe Jara and Ket were lucky in that year, if that was the case?