Richard's Animorphs Forum

Animorphs Section => Animorphs Forum Classic => Topic started by: esplin on March 06, 2009, 12:52:32 PM

Title: Andalite tail blade density.
Post by: esplin on March 06, 2009, 12:52:32 PM
Let us assume that the Andalite tail blade is made of some sort of bone.
Did anyone else noticed how strong they are? Slicing through thin metal very easily and almost any amount of bone.

In book 33 Ax uses his tail to remove a man hole cover. 

Anyone else think this was strange/awesome/unlikely.
Title: Re: Andalite tail blade density.
Post by: DinosaurNothlit on March 06, 2009, 01:19:26 PM
Alien bone is very unlikely to be of the same composition of bones on earth.  Actually, even on earth, creatures have evolved many different kinds of hard substances; chitin, keratin, bone, cellulose, calcite, etc.

Vertebrate bone is actually mostly composed of a mineral called apatite, which scores a 5 on the Mohs scale of hardness used for most minerals (out of 10).  Considering that you could use almost any mineral to make a hypothetical bone (depending, of course, on the elements available on the planet you're from), you could have bones ranging from the hardness of calcite (which composes the shells of most shellfish), which is a 3 on the Mohs scale, to apatite (5), on up to theoretically harder minerals, like quartz (7) or feldspar (6.5, I think).  I don't think we have anything harder than apatite bones on earth, but that doesn't mean it's impossible.

So no.  I agree with you on 'awesome,' but not on 'strange' or 'unlikely'.
Title: Re: Andalite tail blade density.
Post by: Essam 293 on March 06, 2009, 05:39:03 PM
^^ If that's not a +1 answer, then I don't know what is. :P
Title: Re: Andalite tail blade density.
Post by: Chad32 on March 06, 2009, 06:03:21 PM
I never really thought much about it, but they are quite strong and sharp. Does Ax ever mention how he keeps the blade sharp? Most animals I believe sharpen horns and such by rubbing them against something. Maybe he has an exercise where he sharpens it on a large rock.
Title: Re: Andalite tail blade density.
Post by: ChimichangaChupacabra on March 06, 2009, 07:59:41 PM
Yeah, agreed, it was kind of dumb.

They'd be bone, as with the Hork-blades.  So, yeah, fine for slashing up soft fleshy humans and big bag-of-goo worms, but whenever they'd be cutting down trees or slicing through sheet-metal, it induced the eye-rolling.
Title: Re: Andalite tail blade density.
Post by: morfowt on March 06, 2009, 09:19:14 PM
In book 33 Ax uses his tail to remove a man hole cover. 
I don't think that has to do with the tail blade, but the muscles in the tail, which we know for a fact, are very strong.

Alien bone is very unlikely to be of the same composition of bones on earth.  Actually, even on earth, creatures have evolved many different kinds of hard substances; chitin, keratin, bone, cellulose, calcite, etc.

Vertebrate bone is actually mostly composed of a mineral called apatite, which scores a 5 on the Mohs scale of hardness used for most minerals (out of 10).  Considering that you could use almost any mineral to make a hypothetical bone (depending, of course, on the elements available on the planet you're from), you could have bones ranging from the hardness of calcite (which composes the shells of most shellfish), which is a 3 on the Mohs scale, to apatite (5), on up to theoretically harder minerals, like quartz (7) or feldspar (6.5, I think).  I don't think we have anything harder than apatite bones on earth, but that doesn't mean it's impossible.
it could also have to do with speed. with enough speed, anything thin is a pretty sharp blade.
Title: Re: Andalite tail blade density.
Post by: ChimichangaChupacabra on March 06, 2009, 09:23:22 PM
Different densities doesn't mean you can just throw reason out the window.  Andalites obviously operate under a similar level of gravity and environmental force as our own, it's extremely unlikely their bones are made out of something hard enough to slice steel and trees.
Title: Re: Andalite tail blade density.
Post by: Estelore on March 06, 2009, 09:28:50 PM
I live in tornado alley, and I've personally seen a single piece of hay that has passed cleanly halfway through the trunk of a sapling oak. I couldn't pull it out bare-handed, it was so deeply wedged there. Sufficient velocity makes even very flimsy substances shockingly effective as sharp-edges.

As for the obviously-their-gravity-is-similar thing, ChimiChupa... why is that obvious? Obviously, their gravity is no WEAKER than ours, but why could it not be stronger? A larger planet, perhaps, and they would need stronger muscles to support themselves. They would NEED to be quadrupeds. Perhaps they encounter Earth's weaker gravity and find it easier here.

Title: Re: Andalite tail blade density.
Post by: morfowt on March 06, 2009, 09:31:17 PM
I live in tornado alley, and I've personally seen a single piece of hay that has passed cleanly halfway through the trunk of a sapling oak. I couldn't pull it out bare-handed, it was so deeply wedged there. Sufficient velocity makes even very flimsy substances shockingly effective as sharp-edges.
oh good. so I wasn't just pulling bits of info from tv shows and misunderstanding my teacher...
(yeah I wasn't so sure what I was saying was true, but it sounded true...)
Title: Re: Andalite tail blade density.
Post by: Estelore on March 06, 2009, 09:33:31 PM
*nods*

Throwing cards, paper cuts, aluminium-foil-accidents... very weak materials can be quite dangerous, in correct circumstances.
Title: Re: Andalite tail blade density.
Post by: ChimichangaChupacabra on March 06, 2009, 09:44:45 PM
Yes, yes, I know all that.  They're all more or less freak accident examples, though.  I doubt a species would evolve on the gamble that "hey, if they have sharp bones on their tails, they'll be unstoppable".  There are other better defense mechanisms out there.  As totally rad as the Andalites are, they're pretty frickin' implausible.
Title: Re: Andalite tail blade density.
Post by: morfowt on March 06, 2009, 09:54:44 PM
well andalite aren't exactly unstoppable... a primitive human gun could kill one. and so could 3 or 4 hork-bajir
Title: Re: Andalite tail blade density.
Post by: ChimichangaChupacabra on March 06, 2009, 10:04:33 PM
Not what I meant.  Obviously.
Title: Re: Andalite tail blade density.
Post by: morfowt on March 06, 2009, 10:05:40 PM
... then what did you mean?
Title: Re: Andalite tail blade density.
Post by: musicman88 on March 06, 2009, 10:11:39 PM
Cutting metal with just about anything other than heat is a pretty large task.  I find it hard to believe that anything could cut something as think as a manhole cover no matter how fast it was going or what it was made out of.
Title: Re: Andalite tail blade density.
Post by: morfowt on March 06, 2009, 10:12:55 PM
I thought he flipped a manhole cover over, not sliced through it...
Title: Re: Andalite tail blade density.
Post by: JFalcon on March 07, 2009, 12:04:41 AM
I thought he flipped a manhole cover over, not sliced through it...

That's what I thought too, I mean trying to cut the thing would be unintelligent for a variety of reasons, actually succeeding with your tail blade would be just plain weird.

I also thought it might be the speed with which they're moving, I mean something described as moving so fast the human eye either doesn't see it or at least sees just a blur, is going to be pretty deadly.

Besides that I think there's a certain technique to it, I don't think the blades are just that awesome on their own, I believe, like martial arts allowing someone to break bricks with their bare hands, Andalites using their tail need to have a certain technique, the fact that Tobias gets his tail blade stuck during a practice session with Ax kind of supports this, but it might just have been for comic relief.

Given what we've seen of the Andalite military though it wouldn't surprise me if tail fighting is a form of Andalite martial arts rather than a purely instinctual defense mechanism.

But no matter the explanation I'm with those who say that cutting through metal is pretty freaking implausible.
Title: Re: Andalite tail blade density.
Post by: goom on March 07, 2009, 12:12:26 AM
I thought he flipped a manhole cover over, not sliced through it...

which book was that? i don't remember him cutting through it.
Title: Re: Andalite tail blade density.
Post by: morfowt on March 07, 2009, 12:26:34 AM
I thought he flipped a manhole cover over, not sliced through it...

which book was that? i don't remember him cutting through it.
well esplin says book 33 in the first post, but I think it was actually book 43...
Title: Re: Andalite tail blade density.
Post by: esplin on March 07, 2009, 03:01:46 PM
Yea hes right, my bad, it was book 43.

And yes he did flip it not cut it.
Title: Re: Andalite tail blade density.
Post by: musicman88 on March 07, 2009, 10:22:55 PM
Alright, my bad then.  Flipping it is totally fine with me.
Title: Re: Andalite tail blade density.
Post by: goom on March 08, 2009, 01:27:32 AM
yeah, that makes a lot more sense.
goodness, i thought i missed that in the books. *whew*