Richard's Animorphs Forum
Animorphs Section => Group Re-Reads => Animorphs Forum Classic => Past Re-Reads => Topic started by: Terenia on February 18, 2009, 07:29:38 PM
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Summary
David, the newest Animorph, is not what he appears. His need to control the other Animorphs and Ax is all he thinks about. And the things he does are starting to break up the group.
Rachel and the others know that time is running out. The newest battle against the Yeerks is the most important one yet. And it's not one that will wait. Winning this fight could mean slowing down the invasion. But no one knows what to do with David. Because the newest Animorph is more than just a little problem. He's deadly...
Questions
1) The subtle approach doesn't work with the summit meeting, so the Ani's go with direct. Think this is a good strategy?
2) David attempts to regain a "real" life by taking over Saddler, Jake and Rachels dying cousin. The theory is that David gets his life back and Saddler's parents get their kid back. What do you think about this solution?
3) Why do you think David pursued the Animorphs, instead of disappearing and going about his own business getting rich?
4) Why do you think things got so personal between Rachel and David?
5) The final solution: David's nothlitism. Was it the right decision?
Next week: The Hork-Bajir Chronicles
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(Just addressing number two here)
2)
I think it would be fine if David weren't a total piece of scum.
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I think David taking Saddler's life is a bit extreme, but possibly justifiable. Though I don't know if David would be up to playing Saddler, and not just David in a new body. He would really have to be Saddler, for multiple reasons.
I don't think the nothlitism was the right thing. Cassie did it just so she wouldn't have to feel bad about killing a Human, and we know for a fact that this did not end well. David remained miserable through his existance.
I don't know why it got so personal with Rachel. Maybe because she saw herself in him.
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Yes, I say again; brillant book
1) It worked. Can praise the strategy, but can't knock the results
2) Think it was sick. Seem reason they couldn't ask the chee to live out lives for them. You only get one live, to with it what you can. What David was planning was disgusting
3)Cuz he's an idiot. And because they were probably the greatest threat to him. Ani's would hunt him, so long as he was quiet, I can see the Yeerks ceasing to care, or passing him off for dead
4) Not sure. Maybe just a clash of will or something. I'm not a Rachel was a nutter sayer, but David embodied much of what she may have become. He didn't *** up stuff cuz he had too, he did it cuz he could. And there were times Rachel would push that limit. People often clash with things similar to themselves
5) At the time, and for them, I'd say yes. They have enough to deal with, if they found this easier to carry than killing him, yes. But now, that I'm older, and a share colder, I say they should have killed him. It would be harsh, and terrible to bare, but for logicistics it would have been for the best. Plus, it would mean at least that the final solution to David was shared, not left on one....
One of my favorite lines of the series in this book.
When Jake is discussing his worry for Rachel and she replies that the Visser would "trade his Blade Ship for your head on a stick" I think it was.
It touches me. I feel for the kid, but at the same time, there's so much pride in believing that one person makes a different, that he can save the world. One of my favorite images of Jake and all of them, right there
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I think leaving David as a nothlit was a huge risk. He's now even more bitter towards the Animorphs, and all he needs is one controller to enter thought-speak range and the entire group is history. I would have killed him.
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Agreed, David is too mentally unstable to be left alive.
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1. I liked it; it was really fun to read. And since the subtle plan failed while this one worked, then yeah I would think it was a good strategy.
2. I agree with RYTX.
3. He as much reason to be paranoid about the Animorphs as they do about him, and loose ends are always trouble. Also revenge musht have been a motivating factor.
4. I think this is one flaw of the plot spanning three books. The previous books focused David's relationship with Jake and Marco that the hatred towards Rachel seemed almost out nowwhere. However, it got personal because each of them threatened what the other valued --killing loved ones.
5. Say what you will about the decision, but I think it was important for the Animorphs to realize the 2 hour limit can work for them as it can against.
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4) I think the FORK IN THE EAR might have been a negative influence on their friendship.
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David knew that he caused something in Rachel to snap when he killed Tobias. Then comes the fork in the ear and the threat to kill his family. He sees the dark madness inside her and sees that she fears that side of her, and he preys on this vulnerability as revenge. Tormenting Rachel makes him feel powerful.
Also, isn't David in some way similar to a Yeerk when he tries to steal Saddler's life? He basically turns into a parasite, a boy with no home taking someone else's.
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No, morphing sentient creatures is not like what Yeerks do. Saddler's mind would still be in there, struggling to be free. There are less extreme options for David, but I don't see that as intolerable.
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The thing that bothers me about the whole David/Saddler thing is how much this is going to hurt his family... Saddler's family was already resigned to the fact that he was going to die. They clearly weren't happy with it, but they were aware that he probably wasn't going to make it.
When David morphed Saddler, he gave them that hint of hope before it got ripped away from them.
Having lost a family member, the idea is sickening. Because after this scare and finally acceptance that they'll die, you want it to be over. No one wants to go through loosing the same family member TWICE.
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So what happened to Saddler's body, anyway? I think I remember him being in an elevator, and David did it there, or something.
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Leaving David as a nothlit was a huge mistake. He can still use thought speak, he could still blab to the Yeerks, he could still be a big threat to the Animorphs.
But what I really didn't like about David was his ungratefulness. Sure his life sucked even more than it already did but come the hell on!!! It could've been a lot worse. If the Animorphs saved my life from the Yeerks, I'd be on my knees thanking them, even if I did have to fight in the war now it's better than being a controlle or dead. David was just a little snob and he had worse "You should pity me" syndrome than Tobias. I bet people didn't like him at school cuz he was a stuck up little @$$hole not because he was the new kid. I just hated how he was mean to the other Animorphs and tried to dominate them(he's really forgetting the definition of "the new guy who needs to earn the trust and respect") In the end of book 48 I hope Rachel did kill like they should've done in the first or at least Tobias kills him like in a hilarious fic I read cuz he was nothing but a punk who would've never lasted in the Animorphs even if he never did betray them(unless he changed his attitude as the books progressed)
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Leaving David as a nothlit was a huge mistake. He can still use thought speak, he could still blab to the Yeerks, he could still be a big threat to the Animorphs.
But what I really didn't like about David was his ungratefulness. Sure his life sucked even more than it already did but come the hell on!!! It could've been a lot worse. If the Animorphs saved my life from the Yeerks, I'd be on my knees thanking them, even if I did have to fight in the war now it's better than being a controlle or dead. David was just a little snob and he had worse "You should pity me" syndrome than Tobias. I bet people didn't like him at school cuz he was a stuck up little @$$hole not because he was the new kid. I just hated how he was mean to the other Animorphs and tried to dominate them(he's really forgetting the definition of "the new guy who needs to earn the trust and respect") In the end of book 48 I hope Rachel did kill like they should've done in the first or at least Tobias kills him like in a hilarious fic I read cuz he was nothing but a punk who would've never lasted in the Animorphs even if he never did betray them(unless he changed his attitude as the books progressed)
Yikes. Not a fan of David, eh?
I have to say I disagree. I actually sympathize with David throughout this trilogy, to a degree. Not to say that anything he did was right (it wasn't), and not to say he wasn't a bit twisted (he was), but it's easy to look at the Animorphs that we've come to know and love as the "good guys" and automatically assume that they're 100% in the right, when they aren't.
The Animorphs didn't exactly welcome David with open arms. Additionally, they were in the midst of their largest target EVER and a bit distracted. As a result, David was not on their list of priorities.
Well think how you would feel. Your family is as good as dead, you aren't allowed out in public, you're suddenly being told what to do by a bunch of kids your age and you only really understand about half of it. And in the meantime you have this annoying kid who thinks he's all that (Marco) making snide comments about you, the 'new kid'.
I can see how someone would react poorly.
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Leaving David as a nothlit was a huge mistake. He can still use thought speak, he could still blab to the Yeerks, he could still be a big threat to the Animorphs.
But what I really didn't like about David was his ungratefulness. Sure his life sucked even more than it already did but come the hell on!!! It could've been a lot worse. If the Animorphs saved my life from the Yeerks, I'd be on my knees thanking them, even if I did have to fight in the war now it's better than being a controlle or dead. David was just a little snob and he had worse "You should pity me" syndrome than Tobias. I bet people didn't like him at school cuz he was a stuck up little @$$hole not because he was the new kid. I just hated how he was mean to the other Animorphs and tried to dominate them(he's really forgetting the definition of "the new guy who needs to earn the trust and respect") In the end of book 48 I hope Rachel did kill like they should've done in the first or at least Tobias kills him like in a hilarious fic I read cuz he was nothing but a punk who would've never lasted in the Animorphs even if he never did betray them(unless he changed his attitude as the books progressed)
Yikes. Not a fan of David, eh?
Well think how you would feel. Your family is as good as dead, you aren't allowed out in public, you're suddenly being told what to do by a bunch of kids your age and you only really understand about half of it. And in the meantime you have this annoying kid who thinks he's all that (Marco) making snide comments about you, the 'new kid'.
I know that would suck but I'd also know that the only way to get my parents back was to work with the Animorphs and I'd probably quit as soon as I got my parents back and we go into hiding LOL. I wouldnt rlly have a problem with them telling me what to do mostly cuz they've been doing this a lot longer than me and should know what they're doing by now. I'd disagree with some decisions but they always had disagreements so tht wouldnt too big a problem. I'm willing to bet anybody could handle the situation better than David did
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I'm willing to bet anybody could handle the situation better than David did
I'm willing to bet I wouldn't. I'd quit just after the first major battle...
1) The subtle approach doesn't work with the summit meeting, so the Ani's go with direct. Think this is a good strategy?
I'm not sure I would call it great strategy, but it was a good scene...
2) David attempts to regain a "real" life by taking over Saddler, Jake and Rachels dying cousin. The theory is that David gets his life back and Saddler's parents get their kid back. What do you think about this solution?
well if you look at it a certain way, it's justifiable. of course, everything is justifiable if you look at it a certain way...
5) The final solution: David's nothlitism. Was it the right decision?
No, in almost any way possible... it's bad security-wise, strategy-wise, moral-wise... the only way it's a yes is if you don't want to kill a human...
P.S. I believe we are going by publication order, so wouldn't next week be Hork-Bajir chronicles?
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P.S. I believe we are going by publication order, so wouldn't next week be Hork-Bajir chronicles?
That's what I thought originally, but when I checked on the Anibase they had HBC being published after #23.
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That's what I thought originally, but when I checked on the Anibase they had HBC being published after #23.
Did they come out the same month? I remember #23 references HBC.
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well I don't have the books so I can't check the publication dates, but yeah, I'm pretty sure they were published the same month, and yes #23 does reference HBC...
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Yeah, HBC would come first, since in book 23 Tobias already knows about Toby, and he met her for the first time in HBC.
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Ok, I'll change it then. Next week is HBC. :) Well, this week technically, but I'll be posting it Monday or Tuesday, so....
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that was perhaps one of the most shattering animorphs book I have read, since book 54, 19, and 52 it truly showed how far the animorphs will go to keep their secret
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http://animorphsforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=2405.0 (http://animorphsforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=2405.0)
Well, you're a little late.
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Holy! Thanks to Mr.Guy 36, I just realized I haven't posted on this re-read. And what a shame, The David Trilogy was an EPIC READ!!!
1) The subtle approach doesn't work with the summit meeting, so the Ani's go with direct. Think this is a good strategy?
Well, they had tried the sneaky and subtle. The Yeerks were already onto them, PLUS they were fatigued and worn out from having to handle David.
2) David attempts to regain a "real" life by taking over Saddler, Jake and Rachels dying cousin. The theory is that David gets his life back and Saddler's parents get their kid back. What do you think about this solution?
This was a bizarre move on his part, in my opinion. Here we have the first human character that is perfectly fine with, not only, masquarading as other humans (he does it to Marco, too!), but thinks it's ok to morph acquire a dying person and dump their corpse somewhere. Saddler practically looked and acted like David, from the impression that I got. But David had clashed with Jake prior to this book, why would he want 'to be' in the same family branch?! Supposedly, he wouldn't really be 'gone' from Jake's life.
I won't say it was evil, because I actually don't take David as evil. He is just a selfish spoilt rich kid, who doesn't measure the means of achievement, a kid who wasn't really cut for the demands of fighting for Earth. For him to think that he could become rich with the morphing power was just ludicrous, given the circumstances of an alien invasion and war he gravitated to. David had shown signs he could have been an awesome fighter against the Yeerks, much like the others, but he was to self-centered to be fighting for the good of the Earth and human race. This really came off in The Return, to me, also.
3) Why do you think David pursued the Animorphs, instead of disappearing and going about his own business getting rich?
He wanted the Blue Cube, didn't he?!
4) Why do you think things got so personal between Rachel and David?
Though I never really saw them as alike, I think, the two characters themselves, David and Rachel, felt they were becoming more and more alike in that brief time they met. But I think, deep down, after the fork incident, Rachel was trying to differenciate herself from him.
5) The final solution: David's nothlitism. Was it the right decision?
Holy! That's a tough question.
We gotta take into consideration the time that the decision was made. There was NO outlook on the Animorphs winning the war, and their secret identity was one of the few major advantages that the Anis had over the enemy. Not to mention that the Yeerks COULD NOT get a hold of another morph-capable host, such as the one they would find in David, had he walked away.
As it was, David had proven himself NOT TRUSTWORTHY in more ways than one. Turning him nothlit was virtually THE ONLY peaceful solution. One which I found gratifyingly fit, horrible of me, I know, to a person of David's calibre. In some ways, the kid had caused more damage to the Anis than the Yeerks.
Did anyone else get really surprised with that ending the first time they read it?! When I read the title of this book, all the things kept pointing to a 'David MUST DIE' finale. But the nothlit-spin was a good one!!
I really see no other alternative...
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I think a quick nearly painless death would have been a better way. But I probably already mentioned that.
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When I was a kid and I first read it I remember thinking that it was the right decision. But reading Davids description in the later book about what it was like to be trapped as a rat specifically makes me doubt myself.
I kind of wish that he could have been trapped as a dolphin, or a whale or whatever... But of course he never would have gone along with that.
There was never a good solution in regards to david. I think that kiling him, sick as it is to say, was always going to be the kinder thing.
Also, one of the most powerful moments in the books for me was imagining listening to David screaming to two hours as they trapped him.
Less the actual scene, I kinda felt like it was glossed over a little. Ax's reaction is pretty intense too.
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I think that by glossing over that scene it added impact to it. You don't need to describe it in detail. Let the reader's imagination take over, and make it even worse, you know? Applegrant was good at that.
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Totally agree there. That scene is powerful because we can visualize it and it's not pretty.
roguebluejay, you're quite right, Ax's reaction was pretty hardcore, even for him. Which shows just how heavy this decision was.
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I think that by glossing over that scene it added impact to it. You don't need to describe it in detail. Let the reader's imagination take over, and make it even worse, you know? Applegrant was good at that.
In fact, thats kinda a staple of the series. The books are so brief and the description is so little that it allows you to imagine alot! Stupid things like how the barn looks or what the school is like or whatever. Then that continues right up to the David decision stuff and imagining what it would be like to be a rat.
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how do we actually read the books???
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Well the ebooks were here, but now that they're gone we may have to find them on another site somewhere. It's too bad we weren't able to do the whole thing before our ebooks were taken down, but there were many delays. It really hasn't been a weekly reread.