Richard's Animorphs Forum
Animorphs Section => Animorphs Forum Classic => Topic started by: Kelly on February 11, 2009, 01:11:18 AM
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The fact that Jake and Cassie don't end up together!!!
It makes me so sad! :(
Especially when I read back over the series, when they're in love and...and..yeah. :(
Anyone else share my pain?
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It's suppooooossssseeed to be sad, dudette!
Like, Rachel dies, Tobias cries, Jake broods and Cassie...saves furry critters and protects the Horkies. Ax turns into The Borg and Marco lives it up Hollywood style until he suffocates with the rest of 'em.
The whole ending is a downer, basically. ;D
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...well that's one way to put it... wasn't that sad to me, although I was expecting it, what with all the spoilers I got before reading the last book...
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Actually, out of all the "sad" things that happened in the end, Jake and Cassie not being together affected me the least. I was never a huge shipper for those two. I found it much more devastating how Tobias cut himself off from everyone, and how Jake couldn't pull himself together. How Ax, who becomes everything he dreamed of and steps out of his brothers shadow, meets such a sticky fate. Oh, and how Rachel died of course. I was in tears the first time I read that. All in all, I think Cassie and Jake not living 'happily ever after' pales a bit in comparison.
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Yeah, I was actually okay with them not ending up together, which is saying a lot, since I was a HUGE shipper for them for so long. But with the way their characters had changed by the end of the series, it made sense to keep them appart. Had they actually ended up together, it would have seemed very forced, writing-wise.
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Actually, out of all the "sad" things that happened in the end, Jake and Cassie not being together affected me the least. I was never a huge shipper for those two. I found it much more devastating how Tobias cut himself off from everyone, and how Jake couldn't pull himself together. How Ax, who becomes everything he dreamed of and steps out of his brothers shadow, meets such a sticky fate. Oh, and how Rachel died of course. I was in tears the first time I read that. All in all, I think Cassie and Jake not living 'happily ever after' pales a bit in comparison.
Yeah, that. Compared to other things, those two not ending up together kind of pales. Also at that time I wasn't much of a Cassie fan anyway. After her betrayal of Jake and the group at the end of 50, I felt it quite reasonable that they didn't end up together.
She broke up with him because he wasn't "her" Jake anymore. She leaves him in quite possibly his weakest moment. I think she should have tried to be with him just to help him cope, instead of going out with Ronald, or whoever that guy was.
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Not me. To be honest with Rachel dead, Tobias undead, Marco sort of a sellout, and Ax the only real winner Jake and Cassie's problems didn't seem like problems, they seemed realistic, there was no happy ending to Animorphs, it was sort of like in the field of happy endings they won most of the battles and then lost the war. We got sappy ending after sappy ending, with close call after close call the fact is K.A. warned us what would happen but she never really prepared us for it, we were shell shocked and it was brilliant.
Irritating in some ways, but brilliant. It made the ending harder to forget, maybe some people were more willing to foget it but for me at least it wasn't possible, if Cassie and Jake ended up together all happily ever after it'd be like any other story, in the end the hero gets the girl, rides off into the sunset the badguys thuroghly beaten down.
Besides, as Nohensen points out she kind of walked out on him when he needed her most, that's pretty low in my opinion, if she wasn't there for him then how could they have made a life together? He pretty much lost interest in her too, he was too torn up with his own grief and I don't think he ever fully trusted her after she let Tom go.
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I never really trusted the fact that Cassie could be in love with Jake so long and then just . . . totally forget about him. It's been my experience, at least, that your first love is your hardest to let go of. Regardless of extenuating circumstances.
Personally, I think if the authors wanted to go for shock value, they should have kept them together so that we could watch their relationship slowly and agonizingly fall apart. >:D
A lot of things about Cassie's ending bothered me in context of her character, actually. Leaving Jake at his weakest moment, going off to live a 'happy' and 'fulfilled' life with Ronnie . . . none of it really seemed sincere, you know? Like the authors were saying, "Hey, we need to find a way to make life suck for Jake, but give Cassie a happy ending."
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Yeah, god forbid their little peacenik had a sad ending. That would ruin the message they were trying to portray, historically inaccurate as it may be.
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"Hey, we need to find a way to make life suck for Jake, but give Cassie a happy ending."
. . . that factual quote was classified, who told you that? There's been a major security breach here, Visser 3 will not be pleased!
Yeah, god forbid their little peacenik had a sad ending. That would ruin the message they were trying to portray, historically inaccurate as it may be.
It was kind of a sad ending, they ditched her, sort of like she wasn't good enough or maybe Jake still didn't trust her . . . at least I bet those thoughts went through her head. Also I think her happy life was a facade, she could fool everyone, maybe even herself, but on the inside she was empty and lonely without Jake . . . or maybe not but hey, that's how I'm going to see it :P
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At the same time, you guys cant blame her for leaving Jake when he basically refused to talk to her. How do you help someone who doesn't want to be helped?
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if Cassie and Jake ended up together all happily ever after it'd be like any other story, in the end the hero gets the girl, rides off into the sunset the badguys thuroghly beaten down.
This is why I actually liked that they didn't get together (well, I didn't go "oh yay, they broke up!" but you get my point). It made the story better for me.
Personally, I think if the authors wanted to go for shock value, they should have kept them together so that we could watch their relationship slowly and agonizingly fall apart. >:D
But their relationship was already falling apart, remember? ;)
That is an interesting idea though.
It was kind of a sad ending, they ditched her, sort of like she wasn't good enough or maybe Jake still didn't trust her . . . at least I bet those thoughts went through her head. Also I think her happy life was a facade, she could fool everyone, maybe even herself, but on the inside she was empty and lonely without Jake . . . or maybe not but hey, that's how I'm going to see it :P
I agree; she did end up very well off considering the circumstances, but I don't feel like it's a happy ending. Just because she wasn't outwardly expressing it as much as Tobias or Jake doesn't mean she didn't have the same issues (although to a lesser extent).
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"Hey, we need to find a way to make life suck for Jake, but give Cassie a happy ending."
. . . that factual quote was classified, who told you that? There's been a major security breach here, Visser 3 will not be pleased!
*whistles innocently* I didn't find that quote in K.A.'s top-secret diary. Nosiree.
I agree; she did end up very well off considering the circumstances, but I don't feel like it's a happy ending. Just because she wasn't outwardly expressing it as much as Tobias or Jake doesn't mean she didn't have the same issues (although to a lesser extent).
I disagree. If we were meant to think she was anything but happy, I think that would have been expressed /somehow/ in the books. These things are never meant to simply be 'implied.' I mean, look at Marco. Same deal; he had a supposedly 'happy' ending, but his life was later revealed to be empty and fake. I think we were meant to think that Cassie did truly live happily ever after.
And that's the part I just can't quite swallow. :P
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wow some great points there guys!
But it still doesn't change my mind :(
I hated the part in the last book when Cassie's trying to convince jake he's not a bad person for killing the yeerks, and Jake looks into her eyes and remembers kissing her.
It put my hopes up then crushed them... :( lol.
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I agree; she did end up very well off considering the circumstances, but I don't feel like it's a happy ending. Just because she wasn't outwardly expressing it as much as Tobias or Jake doesn't mean she didn't have the same issues (although to a lesser extent).
I disagree. If we were meant to think she was anything but happy, I think that would have been expressed /somehow/ in the books. These things are never meant to simply be 'implied.' I mean, look at Marco. Same deal; he had a supposedly 'happy' ending, but his life was later revealed to be empty and fake. I think we were meant to think that Cassie did truly live happily ever after.
And that's the part I just can't quite swallow. :P
Hmm, that's a good point. I was thinking about how Marco and Cassie were in a similar situation, but Marco definitely says outright that he was "bored out of his mind."
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Actually, out of all the "sad" things that happened in the end, Jake and Cassie not being together affected me the least. I was never a huge shipper for those two.
Rrraaaacciistt. [/Provocation]
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wow some great points there guys!
But it still doesn't change my mind :(
I hated the part in the last book when Cassie's trying to convince jake he's not a bad person for killing the yeerks, and Jake looks into her eyes and remembers kissing her.
It put my hopes up then crushed them... :( lol.
Well, dont be so sad. If Jake and the others lived (which KA definetly made it sound like they did in one of her post-Book #54 interviews), then I'm sure he would've come back to Earth. I truly don't think her and Ronnie would last, if Jake were to ever get back to his normal self.
Ronnie was already showing signs of being jealous of her and Jake's relationship, and he probably had good reason for being so.
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who honestly wouldn't be jealous? LOL some dude tht ur girlfriend's fought with for 3 years and even went out with is asking to talk to her alone. I'd be jealous as hell, but if Ronnie eavesdropped on the conversation he'd probably feel a lot better since Jake and Cassie pretty much just severed all ties they had with each other
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who honestly wouldn't be jealous? LOL some dude tht ur girlfriend's fought with for 3 years and even went out with is asking to talk to her alone. I'd be jealous as hell, but if Ronnie eavesdropped on the conversation he'd probably feel a lot better since Jake and Cassie pretty much just severed all ties they had with each other
Or he'd be suspicious, "hey, dude's pretending not to want to have anything to do with Cassie . . . and a mission, huh, yeah right!"
As soon as Cassie gets back he screams "You're having an affair!" and runs off.
Wolves eat him. Cassie's happy world ends . . . she secretly follows the Rachel in a fighter and saves the day, skunk kits in her lap and all!
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actally, i kinda like the ending..
puts things in perpective..
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who honestly wouldn't be jealous? LOL some dude tht ur girlfriend's fought with for 3 years and even went out with is asking to talk to her alone. I'd be jealous as hell, but if Ronnie eavesdropped on the conversation he'd probably feel a lot better since Jake and Cassie pretty much just severed all ties they had with each other
Actually, oddly enough, I dont think Jake had even asked to talk to her alone. Ronnie just said something like "I'll leave you to it then" and walked away.
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Yeah he did.
So why isn't anyone pining with me?
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Yeah he did.
So why isn't anyone pining with me?
I am, slightly, I guess.
I guess I always was too distracted with Rachel (and Ax, potentially) dying.
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Actually, out of all the "sad" things that happened in the end, Jake and Cassie not being together affected me the least. I was never a huge shipper for those two.
Rrraaaacciistt. [/Provocation]
no racism is all about POWER you are WRONG and you live in your mom's basement lolololol
I never really shipped them either, but the part in #53 (?) where Jake asks Cassie to marry him gets me every time. I thought it was fitting that they ended up the way they did though.
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Yeah, that scene was pretty powerful.
I really liked the Jake/Cassie stuff, like even how the war tore them apart. It all seemed really in-character to me. Post-war Marco seemed a little TOO happy-go-lucky or something, like none of those three years even bothered him in the slightest. At least Jake and Cassie were kind of believably working through some mental stuff, in the way you'd kind of expect they would with their particular personalities.
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Well Marco was almost if not as much of a big winner as Ax. Ax achieved everything he set out to short of personally avenging Elfangor, Ax became a prince, a living legend just like he wanted, Marco just wanted his mother freed and for his family to be back together, he got that even before the war ended. Still Marco's happiness was forced though, he was bored with his movie star life.
Jake got nothing, he lost his brother, his main reason for fighting, he lost his parents though I believe he got them back, he lost his cousin, sent her on a one way mission, and to top it all off, to add insult to nigh-mortal injury he lost his girl.
Cassie lost Jake but not much else, she somehow held on to who she was even though he didn't so when the war was over she just got on with her merry old life . . . brat.
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in order of loss (in my opinion)
[spoiler]rachel (of course!)
tobias (he did lose rachel)
jake (brother, cousin)
cassie
ax
marco[/spoiler]
cassie and jake should have ended up together. but rachel shouldn't have died either, right?
the war didn't end cleanly, more with a bang. left too many fans hanging. -.-
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I'm sorry but how come Tobias has a higher pity rating than Jake? It makes no sense to me unless I forgot something important sure he's a hawk living it out as a loner but he's always been happy doing that. Jake has the full responsibility for the actions that day, he's literally lost everything he fought for except the war (by everything I mean even his dignity War Criminal and all...) He's living as a human yes but one imprisoned by himself. Tobias has always found freedom in being able to fly and go wherever he wanted.
It's not to say that Tobias hasn't suffered just the order is slightly out. But it is Valentine's Day today so I'll let it go. Tobias has no one, Jake has no one erm...actually everyone except Cassie is dead so only one person of all the great characters gets to walk into the sunset and be happily ever after. What a downer.
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Well really you can't quantify grief or suffering. You can guess who suffered more at the end, but it's just a guess so the order of anyone's list would be purely guessing based on personal observation, who's to say whether Jake or Tobias suffered more, both of their lives pretty much ended.
Personally I think the auxiluries were right up there with Rachel not because they were killed but because of the manner in which they were killed, sticking purely to the core Animorphs however I agree that whether you swap Jake for Tobias or not they're both right up there at the top of the list.
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Yeah, that's the one single thing that's always bothered me about the ending. I absolutely LOVE the way K.A. ended the series (I'm probably in the minority on that point, but I'm still right ;) ), but it's always frustrated me about the lack of mention of the Auxiliaries.
So, okay, Jake's grieving and working through all of his deeds. Okay. He mentions the 17,000, he mentions the more terrorist-y tactics they were using toward the end, but nothing on the hundred or so disabled kids his age and younger who he basically sent to their inevitable death?
Seems to me that would be his MAJOR grievance, y'know? Okay, the National Guard guys were sad, but they were doing a job. The 17,000 Yeerks perhaps weren't necessary to kill, but it's understandable. Jake knew every one of those kids was going to get blasted when he sent them in there with the troops. He knew, and he did it anyway.
Just seems that would be staining his conscience a little more than the loss of adult professional soldiers and the en-masse killing of the enemy.
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actually it was only 23 auxiliaries...
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Really? Okay, wow, it's been a while since I've read #54. 23 dead, or 23 total he sent along with the General? What happened to the others? Didn't they recruit a lot more than that from the hospitals/care centers?
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I think it was just 23 (though I don't remember it being that exact number it sounds bout right) they kept the number small(ish) and must have taken some losses over the course of things. I can believe that there were only 23 aux-animorphs.
Only 23 children sent on a suicide mission, made to watch as one by one or in small groups their friends were vaporized by an enemy they couldn't fight back against, who had to wait their turn hoping that by some miracle they'd survive. Can you imagine being that helpless, seeing everyone around you dying and knowing you can't do a thing about it? To have an enemy you can't hope to hurt make sport of you, slowly targeting one animal after another, drawing it out for their enjoyment while you, a child, have to keep marching, keep on going, you can't run, you can't escape and all around you your friends and comrades die, no way to avenge them, no way to save them.
23, 100 or 1000 as far as I'm concerened that's suffering, the lower the number only shows how much longer Visser 1 dragged the game on.
They're barely even mentioned when its over.
It was a sad scene but also a great one because of the bravery shown by the auxiluries and because it solidifies Visser as a villain, not some cooky old man who cries "you meddling kids!" every so often. A truly epic moment in Animorphs.
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I think it was just 23 (though I don't remember it being that exact number it sounds bout right) they kept the number small(ish) and must have taken some losses over the course of things. I can believe that there were only 23 aux-animorphs.
Only 23 children sent on a suicide mission, made to watch as one by one or in small groups their friends were vaporized by an enemy they couldn't fight back against, who had to wait their turn hoping that by some miracle they'd survive. Can you imagine being that helpless, seeing everyone around you dying and knowing you can't do a thing about it? To have an enemy you can't hope to hurt make sport of you, slowly targeting one animal after another, drawing it out for their enjoyment while you, a child, have to keep marching, keep on going, you can't run, you can't escape and all around you your friends and comrades die, no way to avenge them, no way to save them.
23, 100 or 1000 as far as I'm concerened that's suffering, the lower the number only shows how much longer Visser 1 dragged the game on.
They're barely even mentioned when its over.
It was a sad scene but also a great one because of the bravery shown by the auxiluries and because it solidifies Visser as a villain, not some cooky old man who cries "you meddling kids!" every so often. A truly epic moment in Animorphs.
You should be an author.
I swear I've never thought that deeply about their situation. I have reflected on it and always thought it was sad that no one even seemed to think about them after the war, but it never occurred to me that their situation was extremely similar to Rachel's.
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So very true, JFalcon, and a very eloquent point, too. I think I cried almost as much for the auxilaries as I did for Rachel (almost). But it's like they were just forgotten after the war.
But then, they weren't the only ones. Jara Hamee, the founder of the free Hork-Bajir (and a character that I really liked!), died that day, too. His death was just kind of lost in the shuffle, which always made me a little sad. Hell, even Toby didn't seem to care. :'(
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Yeah, I remember when I re-read the books, it took me by surprise that Jara Hamee died, since I'd forgotten about that part from the first time I read it... I mean, you shouldn't be able to forget the death of a character as major as Jara Hamee!
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Hell, even Toby didn't seem to care. :'(
actually, i disagree with that. Toby's line about her fathers death STILL gives me chills.
"He was the first of the free Hork-Bajir," Toby said fiercely. "He was the father of his people. And he was my father."
i can just picture that scene and it kills me every time
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Hell, even Toby didn't seem to care. :'(
actually, i disagree with that. Toby's line about her fathers death STILL gives me chills.
"He was the first of the free Hork-Bajir," Toby said fiercely. "He was the father of his people. And he was my father."
i can just picture that scene and it kills me every time
Okay, wow, I'd forgotten that line. It's been a while since I've read the last book.
So I retract my previous statement. Toby did care. But she was the only one, I think.
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I did forget over time that Jara died. It seemed to me his death was just so Toby could relate to what happened to Tobias a bit. Then nothing more was mentioned. A ton of loose ends with that last book. I hate it!
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Yeah, okay, so even if it was 23 kids Jake sent to die, knowing they were going to die, and basically using them as a diversion, wouldn't it seem that would bug him after the war more than (or at least equal to) things like the 17,000 and the blowing up of the pool?
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Well really you can't quantify grief or suffering. You can guess who suffered more at the end, but it's just a guess so the order of anyone's list would be purely guessing based on personal observation, who's to say whether Jake or Tobias suffered more, both of their lives pretty much ended.
Personally I think the auxiluries were right up there with Rachel not because they were killed but because of the manner in which they were killed, sticking purely to the core Animorphs however I agree that whether you swap Jake for Tobias or not they're both right up there at the top of the list.
I'd say that you're wrong. You can qualify, if you'll excuse my unorthodox use of the word, suffering and you can quantify it. For the first meaning of the comparison you can say that 23 auxiliaries died or 17000 Yeerks were murdered and they all suffered (immeasurable amounts). For the second meaning you could say that someone who was put through torture of being vaporised limb by limb suffered more than a whole pool of instantly frozen to death Yeerks.
Another meaning of just quantifying suffering is what I was thinking of in my original post which is the entire volume of reasons to be suffering. I'll agree that we can't definitively say "I can give you a 9/10 pity rating" but inherently we will assume that the more reasons to feel bad (quantity) the greater the suffering. It goes without saying that someone who has many large losses will be pitied more than someone who has 1 or two (assuming both persons do not deserve said suffering).
Basically I'm making the assumption that there's a limit to how much suffering one person can feel for a single immense loss which equates to quantity being more significant than for lack of a better word quality. Jake has had a full range of losses. You could argue he can become so desensitised he never ever again feels pain but from his reaction to life after the war I don't think so.
And if you read through that bless you!
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I read through all that... I still don't really get it...
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Oh that was kinda specific for JFalcon when he said that you couldn't say one person shouldn't deserve pity more than another person because you can't quantify or say how much or more or less a person suffers than another. The post before his reply I was surprised that goom thought Tobias deserved more pity than Jake.
Simply put I guess it's just me being curious as to goom's reasoning and me being pedantic about JFalcon's response. Never mind!
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Well really you can't quantify grief or suffering. You can guess who suffered more at the end, but it's just a guess so the order of anyone's list would be purely guessing based on personal observation, who's to say whether Jake or Tobias suffered more, both of their lives pretty much ended.
Personally I think the auxiluries were right up there with Rachel not because they were killed but because of the manner in which they were killed, sticking purely to the core Animorphs however I agree that whether you swap Jake for Tobias or not they're both right up there at the top of the list.
I'd say that you're wrong. You can qualify, if you'll excuse my unorthodox use of the word, suffering and you can quantify it. For the first meaning of the comparison you can say that 23 auxiliaries died or 17000 Yeerks were murdered and they all suffered (immeasurable amounts). For the second meaning you could say that someone who was put through torture of being vaporised limb by limb suffered more than a whole pool of instantly frozen to death Yeerks.
Another meaning of just quantifying suffering is what I was thinking of in my original post which is the entire volume of reasons to be suffering. I'll agree that we can't definitively say "I can give you a 9/10 pity rating" but inherently we will assume that the more reasons to feel bad (quantity) the greater the suffering. It goes without saying that someone who has many large losses will be pitied more than someone who has 1 or two (assuming both persons do not deserve said suffering).
Basically I'm making the assumption that there's a limit to how much suffering one person can feel for a single immense loss which equates to quantity being more significant than for lack of a better word quality. Jake has had a full range of losses. You could argue he can become so desensitised he never ever again feels pain but from his reaction to life after the war I don't think so.
And if you read through that bless you!
I did read it all, bwahaha, I never shy away from reading medium-to-long posts :P
Anyway you can't say how much a loss or pain person feels, only they know and they'll never know how much anyone else is feeling. You can guess the quantity of their grief, you can even assign how much you think they should feel but only they know how much something hurts really them.
You can call a girl fat on the school bus and you never know just how badly that stings her you know? Some girls roll their eyes, others . . . well, take less than healthy measures. You can decide how much you pity them, sure, but my point was that it'd be a personal feeling depending on whom the judge is, so a list of whom to pity and how much would be a very personal opinion list.
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Whatchu'laughin'bout, Blockyillis?
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I was so distraught I wrote a Mid-#54 fic to put them back together.
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Boo-urns. Boo-urns!
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actually it was only 23 auxiliaries...
It would have been more if Cassie hadn't allowed Tom to escape with the morphing cube!